Who is your favourite historical hero(es)?

Mine is definately William WAllace :D

Braveheart 4-ever! Well Iam not sure, but I will say che Guevara, because its 35 years since he was murdered.

Who is William Wallace? Braveheart?
Che Guevara couldn't stop fighting, therefore he's none of my heroes.
Mine is Gisli Sursson. You'll say who's Gisli Sursson...

[ October 10, 2002, 00:32: Message edited by: Oblate ]

Mine is Frodo :rolleyes: :D ............oh fine, then it's William Wallace and Joan of Arc.

I'd say Jesus, Confucius, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King Jr.

Well, maybe they're not heroes in the sense of warfare.

Peter Francisco...wielded a six foot claymore in the revolutionary war. Eleven dead, I believe.

Hmmmm, m most recent hero is Kurt Cobain, my oldest hero('s) is Les Paul and Chet Atkins.... Yes, I'm a music freak, I wonder how many music freaks are left in the world, at school their are six of us....

All things considered, I'm gonna have to go with Patton.

The guy could be as crude as any sailor or south-central LA'er, then turn right around and lecture the Pope on the Evils of our Time.

Most of the "heros" had a boundary that they would not go below.

*snicker*

Patton suffered from no such boundaries...

I agree with C'Jacob ... Martin Luther King, Gandhi and Malcolm X, who all tried fighting without violence. Sadly they were also all assassinated.

William Wallace (best movie I ever seen, nr 1 on my top 5 best movie list and that one is lemonated baby!!)

William of Nassau (Willem van Nassau)
The founding father of the Netherlands. Also assassinated.

Anne Frank. An other SSNated. I can call her a hero.

Jesus, betrayled.

William Wallace, by far. Oh Christopher Colombus found America, Wallace mooned his enemies!

I think mine may be Augustus Caesar or Napolean. Maybe Benjamin Franklin.

By the way, Leif Erickson found America first!

Happy Leif Erickson Day!!! ;)

William Wallace :( Mel Gibson and his racist film making have a lot to answear for.

Oh well, I don't have any real heroes anymore but ones that capture my imagination include Thomas Edward Lawrence. Though you'll probably know him better as Lawrence of Arabia. I loved the fact that he basically hated war and especially what it made him discover about himself yet forced himself to become an amazing leader and warrior. His quest to remain relatively anonymous is also appealing. For more infor, look here:

http://www.lawrenceofarabia.info/life/biog.htm

Douglas Bader is another who's story I find inspirational. For those who don't know he was a leading fighter pilot, Wing Commander and frequent escapere from prisoner of war camps in WWII. He did all this without the benefit of legs. For more info see here:

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/bader/bader.htm

Finally, I've always admired Niki Lauda for his achievements and especially for gettiing back and being so competitive so soon after having the last rites read over him. For more info see here:

http://www.geocities.com/puckusa/Nikki-Lauda-Page.html

I guess a theme of the ones above is that they are all from more recent times and so I can realte to and have some understanding of what they did.

PS if you've never watched Lawrence of Arabia I fully recommend the fairly recent DVD edition.

Braveheart... with an Americanised Australian Scottish clan leader?

Hmm, the film IS entertaining, but please don't think of it exactly as a documentary. It isn't.

I can't believe no-one has mentioned quite possibly the worlds greatest living hero - Nelson Mandela. What a guy!

Others that haven't been given an honourable mention yet: Winston Churchill, Thomas Alva Edison, The Hero's of Telemark..... ;)

[ October 10, 2002, 14:27: Message edited by: Viking ]

Viking, the keyword is historical, or is Mandela in your eyes a walking mummie??

My heroes are Gandhi and Malcolm X, you know why

Dunno if they are heroes but I have always had a thing for the dictatorical and tyrannical military leaders of histories, especially the succesful ones. First and foremost Alexander and Gajus Julius Caesar as they basicly walked over any enemy standing in their way. I really like Napoleon as well mostly because he is the only person I have ever heard of that have concquered an entire nation just by sheer force of will and personal charisma. His return from Elba must be histories coolest comeback :D

Jesus

Jack Funk - Are you really Mathetais in disguise?!?!?!? :p ;)

I know Braveheart isnt historically accurate(my favourite movie though :D ) But i like Wallace because i have read about him too.

Ah, dear St. Joan d'Arc. I just read Mark Twain's biography of her. He said it was the best book he ever wrote, and I'm inclined to agree. Took him 12 years to research.

Jesus

on a different note: Snorri sturluson (without him no norse sagas thus no tolkien!) and every ordinary man fighting against any suppressor (be it wallace, willem van nassau, martin luther king or whoever!)

@Morgoth

I refuse to accept that you have to be dead to have made your mark in history!

Nelson Mandelas struggle took place at the same time as or even predates your two named Malcom X and Martin Luther King Jr., so how can that make them any more "historical"? Oh yeah, sorry they've been killed. Well that's a good reason. Not.

History refers to the past, and I was not the first one to bring up the hero's of the last century....

[Edit]
Definitions:

history (PAST EVENTS)
noun
(the study of or a record or story of) past events considered together, esp. events or developments of a particular period, country or subject

historical
adjective
Something that is historical is connected with the study or representation of things from the past.

Viking
(Annoyed of Basingstoke)

[Edit]

[ October 10, 2002, 18:40: Message edited by: Viking ]

Ulysses S. Grant
Abraham Lincoln
George Washington
JCDenton
Theodore Roosevelt

If you want to know why, read some history books. :book:

Martin Luther King, Franklin D Roosevelt, and (I'm gonna be flamed to hell and back for this one) Winston Churchill.

Sammy LJ has also left a mark on MY history!

[ October 10, 2002, 21:43: Message edited by: Sir Yerril of Morningmist ]

Herostrat.
:roll:

Oookay, I feel the need to explain this a little more.

This was the guy that set on fire The Temple of Artemis from Ephesus (one of the Seven Wonders Of The Ancient World). He had supposedly done it in order to be remembered by history.

I don't know about Napoleon, Patton, Wallace or Washington. They died, like all the others, their ideas survived, more or less, but none of them accomplished so clearly their desires.

Herostrat. After 23 centuries, I am writing down his name. He is a winner.

[ October 10, 2002, 22:55: Message edited by: r'Hant ]

Leonidas, King of Sparta
He led an army of 1000 men against a Persian army of 1000000 and he was defeated because of treason.

Erwin Rommel
A brave soldier, brilliant general, non-nazi, respected by friends and enemies

Achilles
He could choose between a short but glorius life and a long life but without glory. He chose the first one.

Hector
The archetype of the person, who is not brave by nature but because of dedication to his duty.

Fat Albert.

OMG!

Slim, that's just wrong. Wrong, I tell you!

I had completely forgotten about that cartoon until just now...

Rommel? The Nazi general? The one who kept Hitler in power for years because the Allies couldn't beat him in North Africa? That one?

William wallace, Braveheart, Odysseus and others.
Personal fav(REALLY cool guy): Leonidas. He really beet the **** out of those persians.

Padeen!

Shralph, not all Germans were Nazis, saying that is the same like saying that all the russians were commies, all afghans were Taliban and all Americans are corrupt

:off topic: What? Aren't all Americans corrupt? faints :p

Sharlp:
As I have already written, Rommel was not a nazi. He has fought for his country with bravery and honour and he has respected both his troops and the enemy troops.Do you Know that in North Africa he has reduced the water share of his own troops in order to give water to british POW? Also, Do you Know that he was one of the leaders of Hitler's assasination attempt and that he was forced to commit suicide after the failure of the assasination?

Keraptisdm, it might be a little while before JC is in the books :D !

I think that Martin Luther King Jr., Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, Josef Stalin, Jesus, Napoleon and Bill Cosby are the greatest men ever. They all did something for mankind.

Stalin might confuse you, but he was the reason that the nazis lost the war. If he had just surrendered, then today all of Asia, Europe, and the rest of the world would be under Nazi control.

But on the other hand, Stalin did kill quite a few (to say the least) people. So although he did make sure we aren't living in the third Reich I wouldn't call him a hero!

Muhammad. He managed to unite an warlike people divided by a tribal society within one lifetime. He was persecuted by the Meccan elites from the day he started preaching, was exiled with his follwers to Yathrib (now known as Medina, the 'City of the Prophet'), fought for his existence with a band of followers incredibly outnumbered, and when he eventually triumphed and rode into Mecca at the head of a triumpant army, he showed his enemies mercy. Rather than kill those who had killed his followers, chased him from his home and tribe, and done their best to end his life, Muhammad allowed them to live in peace, whether they converted to his faith or not. Within his lifetime, he united the entire Arabian peninsula; within a hundred years of his death the empire would spread from Gibraltar to the Himalayas. The Arabs went from being pawns controlled by the Byzantines, Persians, and Abyssinians to a cohesive, independent people in one generation...something that truly impresses me.

Yeah, he also married a six-year-old and slept with her when she turned nine. Mohammed was a real peach.

And Rommel was a Nazi. The whole damn government consisted of Nazis. Oh, goody, he was humane to the POW's. Give him a medal.

He also fought to defend the country that was in the process of killing 12 million people! Yeah, maybe he was in on the attempt on Hitler's life, but so were a lot of other Nazis. They just knew that Hitler had started to screw up the war effort. Nothing more.

I have no idea how you can possibly defend a man who, although clearly an able general, was fighting to perpetuate a society based on the extermination of Jews, Catholics, blacks, homosexuals, and most any other minority you can think of. He didn't just "exist" at that time. He didn't just happen to be there following orders. He carried on a campaign that literally allowed a genocidal maniac and demagogue to remain in power.

Sorry to carry on for so long, but this is just amazing. I applaud most efforts to be politically incorrect and consider unfashionable views, but holy cow, man! You're talking about someone without whom millions of people would have avoided being gassed to death in ovens!

[ October 11, 2002, 22:42: Message edited by: Shralp ]

OK, let's suppose that you are right. Then according to your point of view:
1. General Lee must not be considered as a hero as well (All the american movies on civil war that I have watched presented him as a hero). He was defending a system, which was supporting slavery.
2. Field Marshal Zukhov (the general who drove germans back to Berlin). He was fighting for Stalin, an insane dictator. So he isn't a hero.
3. Winston Churchill. He has participated in Boers Wars, where the concentration camps made their first appearance and thousand of women and children died there.Therefore, he is no hero.
4. General Caster. He has commited a genocide against the Indians but he is considered as an american hero. According to your way of thinking he must be just a butcher.

Like or not, Rommel was not a nazi. You have to understand that the Germans, who served in Wehrmacht, were not nazis (at least the majority of them). They were fighting for their country, regardless of their regime.

Schralp:

Dude. The Nazi's owned a whole lot more people than just 12. Heck, the conservative numbers of Russians alone is that. And the liberal goes as high as 25.

If you concentrate on everyone's good side, then it's easy to find a role model. That's why Brittany Spears is sooooo popular! :D

Other than that, have a Coke and a smile. That's why Dr. Weil says. Or at least, that's what Dr. Weil says the South American indians do...

Details, details...

[edit: whooops. Forgot. I didn't know The Prophet married the girl at 6. I just figured he married her at 9. I guess the whole "grass on the field" thing wasn't so important back then... :( ]

[ October 12, 2002, 00:03: Message edited by: ejsmith ]

An additional 2 - Muhammad and Nelson Mandela.

Shralp, are you anti-everything and everyone that does not fall into your perfect American Capitalist and Catholic category? I did not quite understand it at first, but after checking your home page http://www.jamiedmcdonald.com/blogger.html and several of your posts, you really enjoy attacking everything; religion, political view points and freedom of opinion.

I'd not even argue with you for sooner or later, I'll be labelled as ignorant by you.

[ October 12, 2002, 19:21: Message edited by: Astin X ]

Muhammad married Aisha in a political move and a personal favor to her father, Abu Bakr, who was a close friend of Muhammad. Abu Bakr was incredibly loyal to Muhammad; he gave up a fortune to follow the path of Islam. In ancient Arabia, kinship was incredibly important. Muhammad was in the process of forming a new idea of community, one based on shared ideas, but a blood-tie to an ally was still very important at this point in the game. Islam needed the backing of clans and tribes to spread. Christianity had the benefits of existing under the pax Romana. The wandering missionary approach used by the Apostles would not work in Arabia; without tribal protection, a person is fair game to be robbed and murdered.

Muhammad married many women. His harem was nothing compared to those of the Kings David or Solomon, but he had more than enough wives. Welcome to a different society. Polygamy was fine, even encouraged, as long as the wives were taken care of. The warlike life of a man in Arabia meant that an early death was likely. Polygamy neatly took care of the many widows created by such a society, who would otherwise have been left with whatever her brothers could provide. The practicalities of life and politics do not mesh with the mores of civilization on the other side of the world 1,400 years later, but that does not make them wrong for those conditions.

Hmm. I don't like Rommel or Mohammed, so I must be intolerant. Good reasoning there.

"you really enjoy attacking everything; religion, political view points and freedom of opinion." Actually, Astin, what I enjoy is the truth. I want to discover as much of it as I can. When people post things like that they admire Nazis or child molesters, I simply cannot let that go by. (Mohammed consummated his marriage to the girl when she was 9! That doesn't compare to the harems of old. That's child rape.)

Similarly on my web site (presumably you skipped over the positive and humorous posts, but that is to be expected as I'm sure the posts critical of your views are more memorable to you) I can't and won't let people get by with mindlessness. There are too many people who just go along and follow the herd without thinking critically or getting the facts to back up their positions.

But let's look at what I've written:

1. Critique of Indian atheists who say Mother Theresa was no saint
2. My second violin lesson
3. A book on vampires I'm reading
4. Critique of the Miss America officials for not allowing Miss America to speak on abstinence
5. Installed BlogAmp on my page
6. Migration of men from Mexico leaves towns full of women
7. News that the Miss America officials backed down
8. Comments on a woman upset that she saw her dead baby in a jar after her abortion
9. Critique of the idea that the US Catholic bishops are going to write a new catechism
10. Link to the monastery where a friend of mine lives
11. Notice of subscription service to my site
12. News that zookeepers in Germany were eating the petting zoo animals
13. Notice that my site is now searchable
14. Welcome to people from Sorcerers Place adding comments on my site
15. News that Pope John Paul II is declaring five new mysteries for the rosary
16. News about a new tactic in the debate about whether homosexuality is a choice
17. News that Miss America wants to run for office as a Republican
18. News that SP jumped to #3 on list of referrers to my site
19. Collection of Sept. 11 quotes
20. Comments on the DC sniper and critique of liberals using this to rationalize gun control
21. Notice of Jeff Utech's site

So out of 21 posts I see five that are critiques, including one that is critical of Catholics. Not quite the long list of rants you make it out to be, is it?

Rommel was regular German Army, he was not a Nazi, nor was he part of any SS regiment. In fact, Rommel was involved in a plot to kill Hitler. I've always thought he was someone to admire...He fought for his country, and tried to end Nazi rule.

Zhukov was a pretty good general too! IIRC he was responsible for the victory at Kursk, the largest and most decisive tank battle of WWII - and basically turned the tide against Germany and the Axis powers!

Unfortunately, I can't really agree on any of the religious figures people have posted. In general, I think organized religion is a bad thing. It tends to alienate those that don't believe the same things. Most of the conflicts going on today revolve around religious differences rather than philosophical or territorial issues. Don't get me wrong, I have my own beliefs, but when you think about the issues that divide people most, religion is a biggie...That's why people never discuss it on dates!

I also tend to hold inventors/scientists in higher regard. Generally they improve most everyone's lives. Think of electricity, engines, airplanes, space exploration, computers, and atomic energy...All amazing inventions that have helped the evolution of mankind.

But, the greatest of all historical heroes would have to be Hugh Hefner! He discovered playboy, and jump started generations of young men into puberty!!! He can't be topped, IMHO. :grin: :spin: :lol: :p

I had to end on a less serious note! ;)

Actually, whether or not Rommel was involved in the plot on Hitler's life is a matter of dispute.

http://www.valourandhorror.com/DB/PERSON/Rommel.htm

From the book Rommel: the Desert Fox: "Rommel strongly supported the National Socialist movement and was identified early on by Hitler for his outstanding talent."

He was, before becoming commander of the Afrika Corps, in charge of Hitler's security in Prague and later in the invasion of Poland. Yeah, there's a great role model. I hope you guys grow up to protect genocidal madmen too. Mama would be so proud.

Will the Real Mathetais please stand up? :good:

Jesus is #1 on the list.

Paul of Tarsus has to be #2. I just finished re-reading the Book of Acts and he was a total stud.

John Calvin, Martin Luther and St. Augustin all make the list.

Robert E. Lee ... a brilliant leader and a proud supporter of small government ... for a damn Yankee to put him on my list, he's got to be good! (cue Dukes of Hazard flashback)

Churchhill.

:good:

Recent = Bob Hope!!!!!

Not so recent = George Washington - "Brit Buster"

Back in the day = William Wallace

Way the hell back in time = Joe, the T Rex :rolling:

I was thinking of saying 'Parents'

Because that's who i believe are heroes, others may base themselves on famous people who don't know anything about us. But I think parents, along with docters and friends are the real heroes of today

So my heroes are - My mother, my docters and my friends

Hitler's security was responsibility of SS troops (1st Waffen SS Division "Leibsandarte Adolf Hitler" and not of Wehrmacht's troops. Rommel was commander of Hitler's HQ staff. He was given this post not because of his nazi ideas, as you like to believe, but because of his talent in military issues. As for his participation in the conspiracy against Hitler:

"In the summer of 1944 Rommel was approached about joining the July Plot. He refused, criticising the tactic of assassination claiming that it would turn Adolf Hitler into a martyr. Instead he suggested that he should be arrested and brought to trial.

In the autumn of 1944 Hitler discovered that Rommel was plotting against him. On 14th October, 1944, Rommel was visited by two generals who had been sent by Hitler with an ultimatum: suicide with a state funeral and protection for his family and staff, or trial for high treason. Erwin Rommel took poison and officially it was stated that he had died of a brain seizure."

www.ez-zone.co.uk/ww2desert/rommel.htm (http://www.ez-zone.co.uk/ww2desert/rommel.htm)

8people:

Your parents are historic?
;) :p :D

as long as they aren't history! :p ;)

Great. Whatever. Admire someone who fought to protect a madmen he knew was killing millions of people. Go nuts.

ooooooh Shralp going sarcastic everybody duck!

On a more serious note: What about people (not neccesarily Rommel) that started out supporting the Nazi (or any other) Regime, but found out the thruth about their regime and started working against it or helping the jews or whatever?

Looks like those people forgot to read Mein Kampf when they considered the Nazi Party.

:yot:

Please lay off the Rommel McDonald stuff. Everyone go to the local community college, enroll in a modern history class, get edumakated, and form your own opinions. Sheesh ... picking on poor Sharlp just because he dares disagree. He doesn't admire the guy, others do ... I didn't see John Calvin on anyone else's list and my panties aren't tied in a knot!

Rant over ... back to my coffee :coffee:

[ October 17, 2002, 14:48: Message edited by: Mathetais ]

"Leonidas, King of Sparta
He led an army of 1000 men against a Persian army of 1000000 and he was defeated because of treason."

you gotta be kidding me, ONE MILLION MEN???? That's crazy, no nation back then had that kind of a army.

I like Jo-Yuan-Zang, the first emepror of the ming dynasty of china, since this guy was a pratically a beggar when he was young, and he rose to the seat of emperor, that is a VERY hard to do.

Another one is Genghis Khan, he united the mongolians and made them into the greatest army in the world at that time, a very difficult goal as they were simple barbarians living in tents before then.

another one is "Enrique", the haiti(was it how their called) who rebelled against Christopher Columbus who basically killed off the Haiti from their 2 million population to about 4 thousand in like 8 years, and also won their independence, against the spanish who had firearms, horses and heavy armor.

Another one is Mao-Ze-Dong, he may have been a bloodthristy dictator, but he has fought against the japanese for a long time yet with the simplest of firearms(smallr rifles who only had like 2 bullets each), almost no tanks, navy and planes, and starving/sick troops, while Chiang-Kai-Check(is that how he was called?) had a much larger force, yet only went to was with the japanese when a few people kidnapped him and forced him to declare war on Japan.

[ October 17, 2002, 20:25: Message edited by: Ray192 ]

Ray, do you realize that Mao is number one or two on the list of people responsible for the most human deaths in history? I'm going to try to find some approximate figures, but I know the Great Leap Forward alone was responsible for 30 million fatalities. Think about that.
That is roughly equivalent to his killing the entire metropolitan area of New York City's population. Twice.

[ October 17, 2002, 21:03: Message edited by: The Deviant Mage ]

"Leonidas, King of Sparta
He led an army of 1000 men against a Persian army of 1000000 and he was defeated because of treason."

you gotta be kidding me, ONE MILLION MEN???? That's crazy, no nation back then had that kind of a army It's absolutely true. Just think the size of persian empire in 480BC. It was extended from the shores of Minor Asia to the borders of India.

I believe Persia sent an army of 200,000 men (which would probably be most of it) against Greece. The Spartans sent only 300 of their finest warriors in a suicide mission against the Persians, killing thousands, and lost becaues a Greek traitor had showed a way for the Persians to surround the Spartans. Leonidas, of course, died in the battle. A naval battle led by Athens and then a land battle led by the Spartans did the Persians in.

favorite historical hero has to be Winston Curchill. For man born in a bathroom he did alot

Martin Luther

Martin Luther King

Thomas Edison

Margaret Sanger

Florence Nightengale

Robert E. Lee (Yes, I'm glad the North won the war, yes I'm anti-slavery, and if you want to discuss this, read a few books on the American Civil War before you attack me.)

I admire wise people who seek to do great things. People who are put into tough situations by incident aren't heros, they're just easy to talk about.

The whole Greek army was waiting the Persian army in Thermopyles, but they decided to retreat to the Isthmus of Corinthos, which was considered to be a better area for defence. Leonidas with 300 Spartans and 700 men from the city of Thespis, who refused to abandon him, remained in Thermopyles in order to buy the time needed for the preparations of the fortifications in Corinthos.

When the Persian fleet was destroyed in the sea battle of Salamina, King Xerxis returned to Persia and left behind his general Mardonius with 300000 troops to continue the war. Mardonius army was destroyed one year later (479 BC) in the battle of Platees by the united Greek Army, which was under the leadership of Pausanias,King of Sparta.

Gah!

Margaret Sanger?!?! The woman who (as she herself wrote) launched a plan to kill off minority races by giving them as much birth control and abortion services as possible? Holy cow!

[ October 18, 2002, 16:37: Message edited by: Shralp ]

The Straight Dope column today is one for this topic:
Straight Dope article (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/021018.html)

It is about the biggest mass murderers (states and those that ran them) in recent history.
The top 9 (lifted from the article):

Rummel goes on to identify the top nine killers: (1) Joseph Stalin, 43 million dead, 1929-'53;
(2) Mao Tse-tung, 38 million, 1923-'76;
(3) Adolf Hitler, 21 million, 1933-'45;
(4) Chiang Kai-shek, 10 million, 1921-'48;
(5) Vladimir Lenin, 4 million, 1917-'24;
(6) Tojo Hideki (Japan), 4 million, 1941-'45;
(7) Pol Pot, 2.4 million, 1968-'87;
(8) Yahya Khan (Pakistan), 1.5 million, 1971;
(9) Josip Broz, better known as Marshal Tito (Yugoslavia), 1.2 million, 1941-'80.

Who thought Stalin and Mao were heroes?

Mathetais (aka John Calvin)

John Calvin, Martin Luther and St. Augustin all make the list.
Were you predestined to say that?

Your friend, Keraptisdm (John Wesley) :D ;) :D

Mr. Wesley ;)

Yes, I was predestined to say that! Just like I was predestined to read the Bible, study some theology, and understand how Predestination (and Reformed theology in general) is superior to the doctrine held by my arminian friends. ;) :holy:

Just call me Whitefield! :lol:

Mr. Wesley

Yes, I was predestined to say that! Just like I was predestined to read the Bible, study some theology, and understand how Predestination (and Reformed theology in general) is superior to the doctrine held by my arminian friends.

Just call me Whitefield! Mr. Calvin:
Now THAT was some much needed levity injected to this thread. I'm glad you picked up on it. ;) You may be required to elaborate for the more theologically doctrinally challenged members of the congregation. Naturally, I was not predestined to make that statement. ;) :angel:
Your obedient servant,
J.Wesley

I think I'm going to upgrade my hero to Mr. Jack Daniels.

Yep. That was one MIGHTY fine individual. He like, won a silver star for all the lives he saved. I think he was nominated for the Medal of Honor, but then Dr. Jim Beam debunked his theory of extractions before a congressional committee, and it ignited a virtual war between several States.

That man is like, totally my idol. I think I'm just going to refer to him in the future as Sir Jack Daniels.

Maybe Dr. Jack Daniels, D.O. (osteopathic rules!!)?

RADM. Dr. Jack Daniels, D.O. (ret)?

Wow...with all the attacking going on in this thread, I'm surprised that Bob Hope and Joe, the T Rex haven't been shot down!!!

More heros for me: Joseph Smith, and all the early mormon pioneers...they took a lot of crap from a country where people are supposed to be able to worship freely, but didn't cave in...now look at us!!! :rolling:

Yeah, I've got to give kudos for the early Mormons. They took a lot of crap, including the assassination of their leader, and kept building their society.

Not that this Catholic agrees with most of the Mormons then or now, of course. :1eye:

for me it is
1. Fidel Castro - saviour of the great country Cuba
2. Oscar Schindler - the saviour of many jewish (sp) in the second world war
3. Lenin/Vladimir - same person and a hero for the sovjet union
4. Karl Marx - intrudutioner of Socialism/Communism

Is it just me or is it really hot in here?

Jesus is #1

And from my country Mohammed Hatta,the first Indonesia Vice President.

We talk about heroes and it is going to be HOT

I was referring to all the flaming going on, and that yet to come especially considering AssWooper the ÜberSpammer's post. :)

[ October 24, 2002, 06:49: Message edited by: Alex ]

Ok, I need to say this: One hero we should all have is Bill Gates...if it wern't for him, he would all be stuck behind a peice of S$%& I Mac. Well...I guess it wouldn't be that bad...our heating bills would be cut in half. Juts turn on your Macintrash "all-in-one" and you got youself a handy space heater...that's all thy're good for. :rolling:

Bill Gates is evil. It is not heroic to steal the ideas of others.

@Jack...I take it that you like your space heater? :rolling:

@Kitrax

Dont you mean, if Billie didnt steal those ideas from IBM we should all be behind silly Macs

I don't know about steal...He was a shrewed business man. He bought an o/s from some guy in Seattle for $50,000, made IBM pay for it on a per license basis.

As for Windows...Xerox gave that away to Gates in the 80's...He was just quicker to get it to market!

I don't know if he's a hero - but he is an example of capitalism in action!!!

1. Jesus
2. Pope John Paul II, Mother Theresa of Calcatta
3. St. Joan of Arc
4. Odo de Saint-Amand, Armand de Perigord, Gillaume de Beaujeu, Jacques de Molay in chronological order
5. Charles I Stuart
6. William Wallace
7. Aetius, Belisarius (the 6th cent. one ;) ), Constantine XI
8. General Patton

The sequence depends mostly on the strength of feelings towards the heroes, in some cases it's impossible to properly evaluate and establish a reasonable order.

Actually, my recollection is that Steve Jobs or Steve Woziak (I forget which) lifted the mouse/window OS that they used for mac straight out of the Xerox labs with those fools not even realizing what they had. Thus, the rise of Apple. The fact that Jobs and Wozniak were garage inventors with a serious deficiency in business acumen (compared to, say, Wild Bill Gates) is why we're mostly not using mac's (except my wife and other artist types who swear by the things -- I mock her mercilessly, of course, especially when the thing just decides for no reason that it isn't going to print or let her do anything). Thus, the fall (essentially) of Apple.

My contribution to the list -- the first person who figured out the wheel. (And yes, I'm serious. He or she is a lot more heroic in my view than anyone who killed a lot of people (or ordered others to do the killing), whether or not you agree with any of their political views.) My life is a heck of a lot better due to the wheel (and that inventor's progeny in spirit, the various people who invented and developed everything material that I hold dear).

The odd thing about it all, is the fact that the question is about historical heroes, and with all these wonderful, noble people everyone else keeps mentioning, I can only seem to think of: Sherlock Holmes and Jeremy Brett. Who I've long suspected to be the same person. Okay, I admit it, I'm a slave to visual entertainment. Ohh, I thought of another one: Erik. You know, the Phantom of the Opera? I'm gonna lie down and think of some real people now. I'll get back to you.

I have one. Sun Tzu. He was a great man, a being of pure wisdom and skill. From the time of his death on, his teachings in the Art of War have been studied by the great generals and emporers of the East, and many in Europe a while later. His teachings are powerful, not on the surface (while a great book on war stradegy) but on life. Everything written can be applied to one's everyday life and used to better one's social environment.

I have one beef however. So many people think that Sun Tzu advocated war, and that his very essence was dedicated to it. Not true. He hated war, he despised the endless death that resulted from it, and sought to abolish it by hiding certain messages within his books (most specifically the Art of War) that before battles, terms of agreement should be discussed by opposing generals in an orderly, gentleman like way so as to stop needless destruction. This is a great feat. But on that list of the people reasponsible for the most deaths in history, he would be at the top. Because of his teachings, the chinese and japanese were far more efficient in battle, and found more efficient ways of killing even more people. While his influence in the west was less, he was still held in high regard by a select few. Indirectly, his misunderstood teachings have become the most violent and cruel war machine in human history.

[ January 03, 2003, 09:06: Message edited by: Lord Neon ]

I'll not post my top yet, as I've got to give it some thought. But I'm surprised at the number of people who mentioned Robert E. Lee and no one talks about Stonewall Jackson! Maybe later I'll link some resources so y'all can read about this amazing man.

A "few" *ahem* additions

1. Immanuel Kant, greatest mind of the last few centuries
2. The Buddha (Siddharta Gautama) bringer of wisdom
3. Koeng-foe-tse (Confusius), most influent person in the world of philosphy
4. Temuchin (Djengis Khan), lead an army to conquer most of asia, between China and Poland.
5. Friedrich Nietzsche, just because he´s so darn cynical and anti-christian
6. Erwin Rommel
7. Karl Marx
8. Einstein
9. Sun Tzu
10. Field Marshal Zhukov

[ January 04, 2003, 00:09: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

Definately William Wallace

Sokrates, because wisdom has no bane :D

after that.. Tolkien, for creating what is as real as many other mythologies, we just know when it was created.

1) Jebus ' look ma I'm on a cross' Christ
2) Alleh, with Muha'confront infidels with terrorism' moot as his Prophet
3) Ya ' circumcise yourselves clumsily and incur the hate of the world while still being holier than thou' wee, or more simply, God.
4) The 'rape little altar boys' Poop
5) Hitler
6) Stalin

All of them are dudes responsible for millions and millions of deaths and unthinkable suffering. Yep, they rank up as heroes all right. I'll put the top 3 right into the same category as the bottom two.
The spelling is intentional, by the way.

:mad:

* Shura, enemy of all monotheistic fundamentalist religions.*

1.Karl Marx
2.Che Guevara(well, he's a hero in my eyes)
3.Ghandi
4.Lenin
5.Martin Luther King Jr.
6.Fidel Castro(Hasta La Victoria Siempre!)

Anyone who is related to Communism or anyone that's anti-American/European/White/Christian, because I try to be an iconoclast.

:rolleyes:

methinks Shura has a little aggression.

For me it is Charlemagne.

PS: Shcindler's list is mostly fabricated. Schindler was in it for himself.
And William Wallace was not as great as they make out either.

A propos: do you know that Charlemagne was declared a saint? :D

It is always interesting to see the wide variety of heroes that people have...

My is not a military, political, or religious figure, although many of the people that have been mentioned here are towards the top of my list.

My hero was a famous man who did not want to be famous, never took well to his celebrity status, and tried his damndest to live a "normal," everyday life.

That man: John Ernst Steinbeck, writer

yeah Stonewall Jackson! Were is a guy like that when you need one in politics???

Amazing how some topics go off like wildfire...

most of mine have already been mentioned. So a few new ones:

the mothers of all the men who have died in war,
the wives who have been left behind,
the children who had no choice...

Sepp Dietrich

A simple man called Allen Turing

I propose those who sacrificed themselves for Good and Justice perfectly nowing this would go unnoticed and they would never become heroes of future generations.

J.R.R Tolkein
Martin Luther
Martin Luther King Jr.
The guy who invented post-its
Jesus

Musashi

Maybe gilgamesh... or my past incarnations...

[ January 18, 2003, 13:07: Message edited by: X ]