Ok, would any of the Greek contingent of SP like to comment on this article? Tiamat you there?

http://pc.ign.com/articles/369/369880p1.html

For those of you who are too lazy to click a link that doesn't have an obvious pornographic destination, basically Greece banned all forms of electronic gaming altogether... no more pong.

I heard it and it is really sick.. for the people who are too lazy to click:

Greece Government banned all kind of publicelectronic gaming (even snake II on your Nokia and the Gamboy). Reason: illegal gambling? Hmm yeah right.....

btw, haven't seen Tiamat for weeks.

What the F... are they thinking?
Games doesnt make you insane and games doesnt hurt you in any way.
This really sucks, poor Tiamat :(

If you read through some of the other articles, you'll see what the deal was/is.

They have gambling casinos still open, that haven't been touched. The deal with the video games was the manufacturers who were actually putting the chips on the PCB's were putting in a regualr Bubble Bobble game, and making a manual switch that flips over to a second set of chips on the same board. This one is just a normal video slot machine with a random number generator, which probably isn't all that random. The idea here is the ones running the gambling machines weren't paying taxes on the income. All the regular casinos pay taxes, the "illegal game" ones didn't.

Anyway, the cops didn't want to have to open every single machine and check the board for a manual switch, and check the service mode for a software switch, so they just outlowed them.

Bottom Line: Not only in America are kickbacks to politicians a necessary aspect of legitimate business, it seems...

Who ever made this law is a god damned idiot and deserves to be burned alive!! :flaming:

And you guys are forgeting about Sirdan, he's from Greece too.

Sick man... : :mad: I wonder how the kids in Greece are coping with this stupid law?

How shallow ar these officials to think that all games promote gambling. They should ban the casinos instead!! They might as well go back to the stone age then...

:coffee:

Do you have any links to other articles on this? I find it hard to believe...

I found the same news on slo-tech, but i don't think that you understand Slovenian language...

Mollusken: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5206

And this is the text of the law itself, supposedly: http://www.gameland.gr/lawenglish.htm

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: My condolences to all Greek gamers out there. That really sucks. I am really happy that our people are normal.

And I thought Bush was a moron...

WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH GREEK LEGISLATORS?!! :flaming:

PC gamimg itself doesn't promote illegal activities; DAMN, if it was the case, then mankind would have been utterly destroyed a decade ago!!! :flaming:

You see; evil people dwell amongst everywhere you look, not JUST E-GAMMING. Ask corrupt authorities, dictators, politicians, greedy executives, abusive parents, criminals and the like. :flaming:

Something is DEFINITELY WRONG in Greece... Believing evil itself pushes hard to PC gaming like a moth to a flame and that electronics is a nice place to hunt it dowm... MY GOD!! GET SOME PSHYCHIATRIST NOW!!! :flaming:

Some motherf*cking greek cop came up to me and took my gameboy saying that cyprus is technikaly a greek colonie so therefor the same rules obide. My parents went to the department and the cop was fired and was forbiden of ever joining the police force again. Unfortunatly the bastard trashed by game boy and my parents wont buy another one for my. I HATE ANTI-GAMERS ANF HOPE THAT THE SH*T HEAD WHO MADE THE LAW WILL REALISE HIS DAMN F*CKING STUPID LAW SUCKS AND WILL TAKE IT AWAY!!!!!

Come on everyone!

Surely you can see that this is a very elaborate practical joke!

There is no way a country like Greece - or any other country, with the exception of the previously Taliban governed Afghanistan, that could pass such a law. It's just too stupid to be taken seriously.

Kudos to whoever created this practical joke and managed to spread it this much!

Actually Earl Grey, I wouldn't count on it being a practical joke. Here's (http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/24/international/europe/24GREE.html) an article by the New York Times (A vaguely reliable source, I'd say) that mentions this law.

You'll need to register there to see the article, so I'll paste the text in here:

Scandals Drive a Crackdown on Illegal Gambling in Greece
By Anthee Carassava

ATHENS, March 23 — For years, gambling was so popular here that Prime Minister Costas Simitis used gambling similes to season his speeches. But a scandal involving high officials of his party has changed all that, and has even driven him to order a ban on all electronic arcade games, however innocent.

The scandal is the latest in a series that have cast a pall over the ruling Socialist Party, ahead of local elections in October.

Of late, the government has moved to mend its image. A group of financial, legal and crime experts have been huddled at the Interior Ministry drafting a bill to stem illegal gambling in Greece, which has the highest incidence of gambling in the 15-nation European Union, according to a Finance Ministry spokesman.

While the bill is being worked up, there are also "serious considerations" being given to setting up a task force to lead the crackdown, the official said.

But there are reservations, too.

"The problem," said Dimitris Batzelis, secretary general of Greece's Financial Crime Bureau, "isn't enforcing the gaming ban. It's clarifying what the ban will in fact ban."

Under Greek law, gambling is prohibited outside licensed casinos.

But in the last two months, more than 750 arcade owners have been arrested, fined and slapped with three-month prison sentences for converting slot machines so they pay out cash instead of bonus playing time.

In all, 200,000 unlicensed gambling machines operate nationwide, costing the cash-strapped country an estimated $5 million daily in lost revenue, according to government officials.

Still, the prime minister's decision to scrap all electronic games — even Pac-Man and Tetris — has some legal experts doubting its constitutionality.

Even state officials like Mr. Batzelis of the crime bureau warned that a blanket ban was "no panacea" for the country's gambling epidemic.

"The ban will not wipe out illegal gambling in its entirety," he said in a telephone interview. "It's just a cosmetic fix."

Government foot-dragging in putting forward legislation, meanwhile, has given gamblers time to move their operations underground, while innovative arcade owners, according to the police, have begun replacing slot machines with computer screens, affording high-rollers the taste of online gambling.

More than 90 percent of Greeks questioned in a recent poll published in the daily Eleftherotypia said the ban was doomed.

"Not only is it ridiculous," said Pavlos Dimitriou, 51, a salesman playing a game of Tetris at an arcade in central Athens, "it's an audacious move coming from a crowd of crooked politicians."

Mr. Simitis decreed the ban after Alekos Chrysanthakopoulos, a Socialist deputy and head of an ad-hoc parliamentary committee on gambling, was filmed by a television crew in January playing video poker at an unlicensed den in western Greece.

Then, a week later, snapshots of a senior minister, George Paschalides, seated in the cozy company of a reputed gambling baron, were splashed across the front pages of national newspapers.

The gambling scandal comes at a precarious time for the ruling party, known as Pasok.

Since its re-election two years ago, the Socialist administration has been dogged by a string of scandals, including its messy management of preparations for the Athens Games in 2004 and murky financial dealings with a telecommunications executive.

With municipal elections set for later this year, Pasok's political nemesis, the conservative New Democracy Party, has hinted at the need for an Italian-style "Clean Hands" anticorruption campaign. But not a single lawmaker has put forth special legislation to that effect.

"There are more than enough laws out there to fight this," said a political analyst, Theodore Kouloumbis. "It's all about making a qualitative leap forward in Greece's backward political culture."

After all, Mr. Simitis himself placed that bet six years ago when he nudged the Socialist leader, Andreas Papandreou, who was in failing health, and his corrupt coterie out of office.

[ September 04, 2002, 21:57: Message edited by: Wildfire ]

I officially declare Greece the most fu**ed up country in Europe. They keep on doing stupid things like this. For example, those British tourists who were taking holiday photos and were arrested and put in prison for god knows how long because the Greeks thought that they were SPYING!? :mad:

Not even the Galatic Empire would stoop to this :p .

"it's an audacious move coming from a crowd of crooked politicians"

Indeed.

"When the video gamers hear of this -" - Admiral Tagge

"I've just recieved word that the Emperor has banned video games, the last remnants of the gaming industry have been swept away." - Grand Moff Tarkin

"That's impossible. Without gaming how will the Emperor maintain control?" - Admiral Tagge

"Fear, fear of this legislation will keep them in line." - Grand Moff Tarkin

I'm sure it won't last long. They'll have to modify it. Banning all gaming is ridiculous. Imagine Minsc and Boo behind bars :p .

This is a reply to Z-Layrex.I am from Greece and I am offended by your words.First of all, this law is indeed a crap but it is not going to have any effect on pc gamers.It will affect the people who play coin-up games and Internet Cafe stores but at the end it will become obsolete.
You write about some British tourists who have been arrested on spying because they have taken photos of a military base. So where is the ****ed up thing in this? I don't know where you come from (I suppose that you are British), but according to what you write, it seems that in your country it's legal for foreigners to take pictures of military bases.What are the the other ****ed up things that Greece has done?
To end this, Greece sure it is not the prefect country, it does mistakes but this does not allow to an 15 year old child, who has no idea about lot of things, to officialy announce Greece as the most ****ed up country.Read a history book and then talk.

That is bizarre. I wonder how they plan on enforcing it.

Earth to Padeen, Earth to Padeen, come in Padeen.

Firstly, BOC, stfu N()()B!

Secondly, in almost any other country in Europe, you wouldn't be kept away from your own family and country for taking a few photos of a military base. These guys obviously just found it interesting! No other civilised country in the world would be that stubborn. Maybe if it was somewhere like Area-51 or a NASA testing ground. But a military station in GREECE! It's hardly going to have anything secret. They kept these men in captivity for far too long, any nation with normal leaders would have just destroyed the photos, made sure the guy's intention was inoccent, and then released them, i'm sorry but this is the truth. Greece is very fu**ed up in certain areas of it's government and i don't give a damn if 'my words offend you'. :p

And you have the nerve to call me a child when you don't even know that you're supposed to put a space after a full-stop.

[Try to be a bit more diplomatic in the future; there's no need to intentionally offend people - BTA]

[ September 05, 2002, 00:34: Message edited by: Blackthorne TA ]

Big B, Minsc an Boo behind bars? No need to imagine, just play the begining of BG2 and you will learn that the bars to hold Misc will yet have to be forged. :D
But I'm still wondering, is it a ban of all types of games, including popular online games as well as simple chess and the games included in windows or is it only against gambling in Internet Cafes as BOC said?
And Z-Layrex, please calm down a bit, there are many things to say of any country, so maybe all countrys are f***ed up. Just wait until some guys in Great Britain react on this by passing similar laws.

I have the nerve to call you a child because you are, as you you have proved by continuing talking about about thinks that you have no idea.Yes, greek goverment sucks. but, please tell me a goverment that does not. It's completely deferrent thing to swear a goverment and to swear a whole country but obviously you can't understand this.As for the family issue you can ask an Irish about the behaviour of British goverment. Military bases in Greece maybe don't have the secrets of NASA bases but you forget that our relationship with Turkey is not good (we have been one step before the war in 1997) and therefore every information about a military base is valuable for both HQ. So, before you say something, you'd better study the conditions that are related to a subject.English is not my first language but, even if it has been, I am not writing an essay or an official report.

Earl Grey: NO, its not a joke. I read a copy of the law in the official paper of the government (direct translation due to lack of correct term knowledge). The law passed on july 30th. Here is the link although it won't do you much good if you can't reed Greek.

http://www.netcafe.gr/files/pdf/nomos.pdf

And here is a translation of the 'important' parts:

http://www.netcafe.gr/files/law.txt

Padeen: I SERIOUSLY doubt something like that happened. 'Cyprus a Greek colony' ???? Are you kidding me? That would drive all cypriots crazy. Cyprus is an independent state, it's nobody's colony and was NEVER a Greek colony, for sure (for one thing, we never had any colonies)

Gamer: Its a ban on ALL TYPES OF ELECTRONIC GAMES. These include PC games, console games, mobile phone games (!), even bowling (yes bowling, since it, in a way, uses electricity). Internet games fall in this category as well.
You are not allowed to play them EVEN AT HOME (public or private use is not allowed). But here is the funny part. You ARE allowed to BUY them. So you can buy them but not play them. Now who would want to spend $40 to buy a cd that he can only use as a frisby (and a bad one at that) is beyond me...

Z-Layrex: Get your facts straight and don't be affected by british propaganda. I am sorry to say that, but your compatriots were in direct violation of the law, when doing their 'plane-spotting' activity. They were taking notes on aircraft serial numbers for heaven's sake! Also, there are many, many posts and signs that explicitly say that taking pictures is FORBIDDEN in the military bases but these people decided to disobay these laws, even when a policeman explicitly told them so. So they got arrested. And in any case they were released and chose to return to Greece for their trial, at which case they were found guilty.

When you go to a foreign country you are supposed to abide by their laws-regardless of whether you find them 'stupid' or not, since you are at their soil, their laws apply. I think jaywalking laws in California are stupid, but if a cop arrests me for jaywalking I won't bring hell by saying 'look, I am from a country where jaywalking is allowed so F**K you and your stupid country, what a F****ED up place you have here!'.

Now back to the issue of that (indeed) ridiculous law. I think that people are already talking of bringing the matter to the national supreme court as well as the European Court. In both cases, there is a very high probability that the law will be declared illegal and will subsequently be revoked. At least I hope so. Or I will have to stay in LA for a veeery long time... :)

-thanos

Wow, Z, way to attack the new guy. Heed some of your own advice from another thread.

Well there's no need to be rude to him ya know Back on topic.

If it's just coin-op stuff and gambling-type machines, then hey, they gotta do whatever to stop illeagal gambling, but I find it difficult to believe that they are gonna cut out all consoles all together. If so, they'll never be able to enforce it.

I'm also pretty sure, based on what I've read, that they're not gonna take away PC's, so stop crying. They're not looking for people playing Baldur's Gate.

Edit: I see nothing anywhere indicating the prohibition of gaming in a private home, just public institutions.

[ September 05, 2002, 01:24: Message edited by: Damona Silvercloud ]

Damona: Take a look

http://www.netcafe.gr/files/law.txt

Read the 2nd article. Find the word 'private'...QED:)
So playing BG2, or minesweeper, or snake on your mobile phone, is, indeed, illegal. Whether they will start bursting into houses to check on you is a different matter, however

(remember, you can still BUY them, but cant PLAY them... :) )

-thanos

@BOC
Saying, or implying, that someone doesn't have a right to express his opinion because of his age is not very open minded. Calling someone a child with the purpose of belittling them is also low! Shame!

@Z-Layrex
Your first post was insensitive. Your second post was blatantly offensive and will hardly make anyone here like you more, so IMHO a good idea might be to apologize for those words.

By the way: My previous post was intended to be ironic. :cool:

Instead of posting yet another post I'll edit this one...
@BOC
Welcome to the boards! :) Better late than never and all that. :o
Don't take my previous words too hard, it's just that calling someone a child is likely to be thought of as an insult even if the person is a child... well perhaps particularly in that case. IMO a better phrasing would have been to say that the person lacks knowledge or is ignorant of the situation, because adults can be ignorant as well as children. :D

[ September 05, 2002, 02:08: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

Heh, look at how they snuck that in there.

They'll have *such* a hard time enforcing it, especially because it's still legal to buy the games.

I'm sure they'll come to their senses and lift the prohibition. They must.

(still in disbelief, even though I read it 3 times)

Earl, everyone has the right to express his/her opinion regardless of age, but obviously a child has not the knowledge or the understanding of a mature man upon some subjects and therefore it's better to listen that to talk.This is the meaning of my words

this is no joke... it's really the sick truth.... I can't say anything else then: Sorry people from Greece. Move to a better place or choose a better government.

Well, both those solutions are not viable. For one, nobody wants to move because their government passed a stupid law. And choosing a better government doesn't help much because the bill passed almost freaking unanimously (the opposition voted for it as well, duh).

The way I see it, this law will probably be declared in violation of constitutional rights by the national supreme court, or in violation of personal rights (as well as rights to freedom of speech etc) in the european court. And even if that doesn't happen, I agree with others that enforcing it will be next to impossible, as far as 'private use' goes.

Seriously, I think that adding the word 'private' is what makes the law utterly ludicrous and what will probably be its downfall as well. Apparently, they wanted to show that they 'care' for the public, and they chose to do it in the worst imaginable way possible.

There are muncipal elections coming up and there are going to be some funny stories there...people are talking about putting game box covers, floppies or even CDs in the ballots:)

-thanos

Arrrgh, can't stop myself... must take this opportunity... must attack silly laws everywhere...

Is there anyone here who after this can honestly say that you must always follow the law?
Well, maybe you didn't think so earlier either, but this should really shake the foundation of all paladins, eh? :borg:

(I cant believe Im defending Z-Layrex on this ...)

Boc, obviously an adult(if that is even what you are) hasnt the "knowledge" or the "understanding" to know, that you dont have to be 18+ to possess knowledge enough to base an opinion on.

It all fits into my theory that Europe is spinning itself towards irrelevancy.

This all fits into my theory that SP'ers are too stupid to realize what sarcasm is.

[referring to Earl's earlier post.]

[ September 09, 2002, 21:26: Message edited by: SlimShogun ]

Earl: Take a look at this site:
http://www.dumblaws.com

It has all the stupid laws you will ever need :)
BTW, on a similar topic, China has banned Google :eek:

-thanos

I MEAN WHAT THE eek IS WRONG? :flaming:

There is a right to lead a private honest life directed to private folks and there is a right for the government to mess in the affairs of others IF the government THINKS they are leading CRIMINAL activities.

The right of the government to mess with people has gone too far IMHO... So far that it has the clear concept ILLEGAL embeded on it.

I mean... Have you seen your local drug dealer arguing with your local murderer about the clash they had three days ago in a multiplayer session of BG2? Or have you heard your local Mafia boss anounce that he is hosting NWN? Maybe PC gamming is the way for one to advance in the underworld? Perhaps you get executed by losing your avatar at NWN?

Most of the criminals DON'T have the brains it requires to deal with such subtelties as THAC0, not to mention AC values and spellcasting tips. Gee, some of them can't even read!

See, ignorance ALWAYS leads to evil by sheer stupidity alone.

To bad we have bozos in every government on the suface of this planet!

[Spacing out profanity so that auto-censor doesn't replace them with asterisks will get you an instant ban the next time I see you do it. Go read the Forum Rules like you were asked when you registered.] -Tal

[ September 05, 2002, 12:04: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

Completely f*cked up, that is all I can say... I mean, even SNAKE? Hell, practically anyone owning a Nokia phone will get fines....

Dumb legistlators. Moronic law.

Ara
(Not exactly awake yet)

This law reminds me of the silliness of Prohibition. Far from fixing the problem, it will only encourage more illegal activity, particularly that of Organised Crime.

You know, Sojourner, you are exactly right. I wonder who will become the Al Capone of gameless Greece?

Ara
(TO hate life is an art form)

[ September 05, 2002, 10:40: Message edited by: Arabwel ]

I agree they are actualy encouraging illegal importing and copying games :rolleyes:
They could make profit by selling them themselves, becouse it clear as a day that someone will ;) :)

the human brain is composed of two hemispheres, the left and the right. the problem with most politicians is that they have nothing right in the left and nothing left in the right. i don't know who quoted that, but i'm pretty sure it was intended more as a humorous anecdote rather than a serious generalization. however, on the lighter side of the topic, some of us would like to think that the greek lawmakers are similar to what was quoted.

personally, i don't really understand why most of the post "sounds like" they are already condemning a law that have no real effect on them (to a certain degree). or they simply assumed that the law have already suppressed all form of electronic gaming. although BOC agreed that he didn't like the law, he have also made a major clarification about the law.

First of all, this law is indeed a crap but it is not going to have any effect on pc gamers.It will affect the people who play coin-up games and Internet Cafe stores but at the end it will become obsolete.
some of you might think i'm talking crap, that i don't know exactly what it is like to have that kind of law. don't get me wrong, i also think that it's crap, but after what BOC said, it is not the crappiest law after all, not as most of you would put it anyway.

and beside, we did have that law already. here in the philippines, that kind of law had already been implemented. it was short live though, about a year or so, but it achieved it's purpose... with respect to it's objective (for the given period of it's implementation). that was in the early 80's, former president f. marcos banned all video games (coin-based) from public operations (although it seems like that the implementation was felt hardest in national capital region), he also banned the airing of certain cartoon shows and japanese anime on t.v. WOW! some of you might exclaim, but it is true. it happened. i was affected by the law. so basically, i know what the greek kids felt about this law, and probably what the greek adult felt about this law too.

conclusion, the greeks will get over it. they (politicians) can't keep a good game from us, right BOC? (btw, i'm referring to the gamers. people who rely on electronics game for their business will no doubt be hit pretty hard.)

I think probably every poster here on SP lives in a country that censors you. The Greek case has just taken it to extremes. If you think the Greek law is stupid, now is a good time to compare to our own laws. Where do you draw the line?
- In Germany there are laws which are very prohibitive about war depiction in games (can any of you germans, confirm or add to that?).
- We had a discussion recently about how restrictions on what you can kill in a fantasy role playing game are being imposed.

Someone mentioned privacy.
You have no right to privacy wherever you live. For example every country has laws which restrict which two people are allowed to love another and in most cases how they may make love.

For some of you, probably the majority, since the laws are still around, this is just fine. :rolleyes:

I read that law on last week's newspaper. This law doesn't allow the use of coin-ups, PC-games, consoles Internet cafe's etc. etc.

You have to understand the reason of creating a law like that. Months ago a big scandal, with politicians from the goverment into it, was revealed. It had to do, with coin-ups, that could be changed to gambling games with a simple button.

After that the goverment had to do something to change its public icon. For that reason, they made a law, that is not functional. That's how things work here... The politicians just don't care about the country. They do what they do just for their public icons. To bring another example, we are the only country in E.U. where diesel cars aren't allowed.

If you want my opinion, noone will give any attention to a law like that. The only thing I hate is that things like that make our country (and us) sound like an idiots (we are not, at least not all of us.)

@Z-Layrex
I think that if i came to England (or U.S.) and took some photos of a military airport there, I would receive the same reaction from the English goverment. Sure we ARE a f*cked up country, but not as f*cked up as you think :rolleyes:

@Earl Grey, no i will not apologize and i have no intention of making people like me, i don't really care about what people i've never met think about me.

@Damona, i see your point but i meant without reason.

@BOC, I know many government that dosn't suck. I personally think the US government, is VERY inteligent overall, it's just Bush i don't like. Almost every other person i see seems to be doing a fine job. I don't think Britians goverment sucks either. True we have had agricultural problems, but the country has been doing alot better overall with New Labour.
I have just noticed that the general feeling from people is that Greece puts tourists before it's citizens.
And you just understand, that because i think a country is fu**ed up, it dosn't mean i hate it. I absoloutley loved Corfu and thought it was a lovely place (in some parts). It's the government that's all wrong, nothing wrong with the people, by what i've seen of them. YOu have the best waiters in the world, that's for sure.

[ September 05, 2002, 22:35: Message edited by: Z-Layrex ]

Z-layrex:

Bush government? Don't get me started on that one. Sometimes it looks like Powell is the only person in the administration with his brains intact. I would say that this is a government that DEFINATELY sucks. I mean, what have they done, successfully, in the past 2 years? Only bombing afghanistan, and the aftermath wasn't as successful either (they still have troops there, right?)

British government? I can't really say since I don't live there, but I read the Independent every day and it doesn't seem that it's as great as you make i sound.

BTW, the 'waiters' comment can be insultive. I hope you didn't mean it that way.

-thanos

Oh jesus, waiters, yeah i see. No please don't get me wrong on that comment. I meant at the hotel restaurant, they had the best waiters i've ever seen. No insult whatsoever intended.

[ September 05, 2002, 22:36: Message edited by: Z-Layrex ]

Z-Layrex:
Are you serious? American goverment does not suck? A goverment, which bombs innocent civilians and then says "oops, sorry wrong target" does not suck? A goverment who bombs cities and farms with uranium does not suck? A goverment, which is ready to start a war for oil and for testing new weapons (and all these under a hypocritical humanistic cloak) does not suck? Sorry, but in my opinion not only it sucks but it sucks very bad. As for the British goverment, I have lived in England for one year, I have had four English flatmates and all of them believed that their goverment sucks (no one of them was a supporter of the conservatives).Also, have you watched George Michael's "Shoot the dog" video? The song is awful but the video is fantastic and it shows what really the British gaverment is.

@Z-Layrex
stfu N()()B!You sir, are a rude person and you broke the forum rules in more ways than one with that short statement. I think you owe an apology.

[ September 06, 2002, 01:51: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

BOC, we're not conservative anymore, we're New Labour.

Earl Grey, i'm stil not apologizing, he was still rude in the first place.

Oh, here we go, an argument with everyone against Z. Anyway, you have good points, but as none of them realy have anything to do with the topic on hand, I'm going for Z. The thing about 'children' been to stupid to have an opinion has realy pissed me off.

To the topic. What a F*cked up law. You poor Greek people. Revolt against the government I say, seek to bring them down!

Finally, someone who hasn't just flamed me. BOC, i have no wish to argue with you, so i'm gonna shut my big mouth now, ok?

Something is REALLY F***ED here.

See, there you go BOC with your bashing against Z; you Z against BOC; everyone gets pissed off and everyone suddenly forgets that HERE we are all FRIENDS (at least before we actually meet face to face).

I mean USE YOUR BRAIN and NOT YOUR STUPID NATIONALISTIC OR PERSONAL PRIDE. We're bashing stupids, not ourselves.

What's wrong with you: A kid can't think?, Being utterly rude without a reason? Defending a government that would surely put you in front of the firing squad for no other reason that being an annoyance? And I mean every goddamned government on this planet will certainly kill anyone they think is a nuisance.

The point is that we're acting just like the idiots we're supposed to hate. We're all mad but facing each other here is not the solution. In fact, it shows how you people can be so much like you're telling the world you're not and it shows you how quickly you forget to be civilized before being a**holes.

BOC, BOC, BOC. You get upset at Z because he insults your country. Then you turn around and insult America. And Britain. Doesn't that seem just a little hypocritical to you?

to use your words about Greece to describe America:

"sure it is not the prefect country, it does mistakes...Read a history book and then talk"

take your own advice

Oh, yes, I'm 17, so you can feel free to discount my views based on my age.

And so chaos ensures once again. Ah well, its interesting to see people flaming everyone else.

BTW: 'Children' are usually those 12 and under. 13 to 17 are generally called 'teenagers' and may possibly have half a brain in their heads.

zak, yes children are generally 12 and under, but you also have to take the context of everything he said, he didnt just say that children dont have the right to have the metal capisity to base an opinion on something like this. But he also said that only a mature adult does have the metal capisity, and ability to have and state an opinon on this.

*sigh* Stick to the topic people...

When did i say that a child or a teenager has not the right or the mental capacity to express an opinion? All that i have said is that a teenager/child has not the knowledge and the experience of an adult upon some matters. Who do you think is more capable of expressing a right opinion about world politics for example? You or your father? I am 28 years old and when I look back to the period of my childhood, I see how my opinion has changed about many things. When I was 16 years old I was a football hooligan and I just wanted to hurt the fans of other football teams and in then it seemed right to me. Now I consider this as one of the most stupid things I have ever done. To end this misunderstanding, just wait to grow upand then you see how the experience and the knowledge gained with the passing of years will make you to change your mind about lot of things.
AMaster:
I have not insulted countries but goverments.I did not say about american or british people but about their goverments.Did I say something about the american goverment that was not a fact? Is the british goverment the only european goverment that follows US goverment to whatever they do?

Shadowhunter:
I am proud of my country but not in the way you mean it. This does not make me less open minded or unable to see some things. It would be about stupid nationalist pride if Z-Layrex had writen that UK is better country than Greece and then I would have answered that Greece is better country than UK.

BOC, i never insulted Greece either. I meant it's government too. The actual Greek people seemed lovely when i went.

See... We have a common a**hole to bash! Long and painful death to politicians!

Glad you could recover your senses... and realized who the a**hole really is!

I TRULLY expect to see more government bashing instead of bashing amongst ourselves... It would be a shame if Tal had you banned... or I your butts kicked (literally)... I really like to see you have some brains; unlike the politicians we're supposed to attack.

P.S.:

Oh!

And if any politician read this... a BIG F**K YOU! TO ANY AND EVERY ONE OF YOU!

You're the worst scum of the human race... You strive for nothing but power, you lie to get it and murder to maintain it, you would sell your own mother as dog-food if that would bring you votes, people's confidence or more money or power. And on top of this you have the nerves to show your puny little faces in public speaking as if you were the next Mesias... You know no shame, piety or decency; you're treacherous, decievious and devious!

And DON'T tell me I'm wrong... You and I know that this is the way you build your stinking riches and your nefarious corruption networks... All you love is money and the power the public service brings you!

I SINCERELLY hope you get what you desreve at the hand of the criminals you pamper so much as aides, advisors and bodyguards!

And know this you little m*th*rf*ck*rs!:

Your little riches and conspiracies will get you no forgiveness or salvation in the end!

You're the Devil himself incarnated!

You deserve no more than eternal damnation!

[EDIT] You have costed mankind as much as the Apocalipsis and have sent to their deaths many more in stupid wars!... You and you alone costed the lifes of so many people and friends I personally knew!... I have even my own life at stake thanks to your ambitions in my former jobs!... Even the car accident I was involved was linked to you!

Don't worry... I don't flame people; in fact I'm quite personnable when you meet me one on one and I believe one can't have too many friends... But politicians... they owe me friends and many more... [EDIT]

[ September 08, 2002, 09:51: Message edited by: Shadowhunter ]

*smacks self* BOC, sorry, I overreacted. Whenever I see someone saying kids are incapable of thought, I get annoyed, and I took your comments to Z to mean just that, and made an ass of myself. Sorry

though your criticisms of the US still don't work for me-but that's for another topic. I'll leave it at that

Shadowhunter is right about some things but not all politicians are scum of the earth.
Saying that is the same thing as saying that all Germans were nazis and all Afganistans were Taliban.

Most politicians are corrupt and deserve to be lynched, tortured, etc (live your sick imagination :D ) but not all.

What would a world be without politicians: complete anarchy, just remember that

Name one of these great poloticians of yours. And people must have actually heard of this person, good luck :p

Rabin, Gandhi and Mandela, one is retired and the other two shot death.
Died for their people, Mandela spend 27 years in prison and when he came out he forgave the wards for their misabuse of power.

We can all learn from these three.

[ September 08, 2002, 12:31: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

Let's see...

3 good politicians...

Amongst 150 conuntries (aprox)...

Which in turn have at least 3000 politicians in each of them (aprox)...

In a half a century time span (aprox)...

That makes 3 good politicians in a pool of 450,000 (aprox); which turns out to be 1 in 150,000 politicians are good in a 50 year span...

That means there are NO good politicians; and that in every place there are exceptions.

[ September 10, 2002, 00:35: Message edited by: Shadowhunter ]

You have costed mankind as much as the ApocalipsisApocalipsis? Is that some kind of catchy new dance?

There are hardly any good politcians, but there still are any.

ArtE, its a special dance where you use non-words, such as "costed."

ArtE:

It´s Latin for the special occasion when four little riders come visit our dimension to wreak havock under Satan´s orders and under God's permission with the purpose to wake the dead and make every sinner pay for his/her crimes...

However; politicians certainly wake the dead, in their electoral form, to vote and elect them. And try to make sure to convince every oppositor to join the silent ranks of the dead to cast a vote for them while their silence is interpreted as an acceptance form of a succesful invitation to the graveyard.

[EDIT] And yes Tal I hear you... no more rudeness or profanities from now on; just pure and simple irony and sarcasm without personal injuries or reference only when needed. [EDIT]

[ September 10, 2002, 00:40: Message edited by: Shadowhunter ]

Shadowhunter: Actually, its Greek, not latin :)
'Apocalypse' is the english-ified word that is most commonly used. 'Apokalypsis' is the original Greek word. No latin involved anywhere...

-thanos

Shadowhunter, what you failed to understand was that while ArtE and I were being 'WITTY' and 'SARCASTIC,' you were being 'IGNORANT.' You misspelled a word, ArtE pointed it out and made a small joke, I followed up on that joke [btw, the word is 'cost']. Then, you decided to "act sarcastic," and in the process showed that you still don't understand what happened.

[Disclaimer: Ignorant does *not* mean stupid. This is not a personal attack. I love flowers.]

[ September 10, 2002, 06:06: Message edited by: SlimShogun ]

@Slim:

No problem!

Always willing to learn!

English is a language I'm not very used to speak daily!

And BTW I know it origins from Greek, but I study Latin, forgot the origins and spelled it from Latin.

Damn! Now I have another dead language to study!

[EDIT]

Latium homini mortis... as my teacher would say.

Or was it Latium homo mort est? :confused:

Can't remember! :confused:

[EDIT]

[ September 10, 2002, 16:10: Message edited by: Shadowhunter ]

thinkk it's hilarious. more greeks are going to have to go on holiday to get their VG/CG fix. :grin:

I still can't believe a goverment can be this bad :lol:

Update on the situation:
I just read today (on a Greek site, no translations yet), that a court found sections of the law in violation of the constitution, and set two defendents (they were internet cafe owners and were accused of having *gasp* games in their shops) free. This is very good news and shows that there are at least some people with their brains intact left back home.
Seriously, courts and judges are probably the only ones left that have power and are not corrupted yet...(and the government doesn't like that but they can't do much about it since there is a clear separation of authorities in the constitution)

And BTW, Shadowhunter, since when is Greek a dead language? Modern greek is the natural evolution of ancient, but any (ok almost any) Greek can read and understand a great deal of ancient greek, because many many things are exactly the same. Words like 'apokalypsis' are a striking example; we use that word in everyday life (in its mundane meaning, not its theological one)

-thanos

[ September 10, 2002, 20:40: Message edited by: Thanos ]

Well, Ancient Greek perished officialy in 146 B.C. when Rome crushed Greece's last resisitance.

Latin perished officialy when Rome was destroyed in 453 A.C. as the last Emperor died in Rome.

As you say they evolved, greek in modern day greek and influencing Eastern Europe languages and Latin in Spanish, French, Portuguese, Italian and the rest of the Romantic languages (Romantic because they came from Rome, not because they were sensualy spoken!).

But today I'm affraid they remain dead. And there is no hope to revive them... sadly. Even though we use them, they are no more amongst us.

Not entirely true. The New testament (of all things) is written in 'ancient' greek. It's not the attic dialect used in Perikles's time, but it's still Greek and it's the language that is used by our church even today. Granted, it's a simplified version, but it's still an evolution of the language.
(for that matter, Homer's language was slightly different that Socrates')

The entire Eastern Empire, in roman times, spoke greek (since most of it consisted of former hellenistic kingdoms). And the eastern empire lasted up until 1453. They are more commonly known as the Byzantines, but their emperor was called 'Aytokratwr twn Rwmaiwn' i.e. emperor of the Romans.

-thanos

@ Thanos:

Get over it man... you are in the first place:

:yot:

Second:

I'm sorry also, but ancient languages are DEAD, Egyptian is dead, Summerian is dead, Latin is dead, every language spoken before Christ was born IS DEAD.

Get over it and enjoy life

;)

@ Shadowhunter, what about Arabic :p

[ September 15, 2002, 20:53: Message edited by: Z-Layrex ]

Ban games? By accident? Trying to ban slotmachines? Yes, that sounds like our ridiculous and idiotic government. These people don't know what they're saying.

Hello fellow Greeks.

To be honest I haven't heard a word of this; but if it's all over the papers it's gotta be true. Somehow, though, I suspect that they will repeal it or ignore it...most laws go ignored here. Like the underage drinking/smoking law.

Stores are still selling games, as of yesterday, although of course this ridiculous law doesn't prohibit BUYING them...just playing them.

(And by the way, to those wondering about my dissappearance: Skipped a grade of school. Busy, busy! Partying when not working. There was a beerfest this weekend. And my parents still almost never let me online :mad: .)

Bumping up this old topic due to some new developments:

BBC 24/9/2002 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2279042.stm)

It's not over yet, but at least it's a step in the right direction

-thanos