It may have been inspired by PS:T, but it doesn't concern it, so please don't move this poll to that forum.

Me, being an old softie, I chose Love. In all seriousness, the stuff this particular emotion does to people's thought patterns is incredible. People can change to a completely different person in a vague hope of pleasing someone they love, when they should know that the best way to do it is by simply being yourself. There are people who will go to absolutely extraordinary lengths for love, and once you have found it, it turns your life in an entirely different direction.

So, which one do you think?

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 40 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: What CAN change the nature of a man? (40 votes.)

What can change the nature of a man (or woman)? (Choose 1)
* Love - 28% (11)
* Hatred - 17% (7)
* Power - 0% (0)
* Greed - 3% (1)
* Betrayal - 5% (2)
* Death - 5% (2)
* Regret - 10% (4)
* Age - 3% (1)
* Suffering - 15% (6)
* Success - 0% (0)
* The Planes (make of that what you will...) - 5% (2)
* Nothing - 5% (2)
* I don't know - 0% (0)
* I cannot answer that question - 5% (2)

Me, being an addolecent softie, I chose love.

[ December 15, 2002, 16:01: Message edited by: Master of Nuhn ]

I think that under appropriate circumstances, any of those can change the nature of a man...or maybe that's just in the nature of that man to react that way...huh.

Regardless, I chose hatred. I cannot see how you can think love can change the nature of a man without acknowledging that hatred can do the same. In my experience, they are often the same emotion or so close as to make little difference.

A lot of people see love and hate as being on the opposite ends of the spectrum of emotions. I think that's simply not accurate. Love and hate simultaneously occupy the same spot on the extreme end of that spectrum; the other extreme is apathy.

That question can not be answered with one vote, everything you said could possibly change a mans nature, but I dissagree with love, it is usualy what comes after love that changes them

Heehee, it was never going to be easy...

Looks like the Alley of Dangerous Angles is a truly appropriate name.

Keep the opinions flowin'...

I voted for love because i never believe in it until i experienced it myself and i do believe it changed me.

I think all of them can change a person, I dont know about the *nature* of a man. Thats the core and I wonder if that ever changes. But thats drifting I think all of them if felt strongly enough can change the nature of a person.

I chose greed, since it is the base of all actions of mankind, love, hate, betrayal all come from greed.

and greed comes from the will to survive, but that wasn´t in the list :p

[ December 15, 2002, 18:38: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

A man's nature can only be changed, if change is in his nature.

Hatred for me. It's the most powerful force in this world.

Stupidity.
Hatred is not a force and alone can destroy only it's owner.
However, hatred combined with manipulation can affect the force called stupidity. Then this stupidity becomes another mass murderer.

Well, I'd be more interested in what can change a person for the better as well as for the worse, so I'll go in the other direction from Extremist :) and say knowledge. The more experience you have of the world and the people in it, the more your values will usually shift. (I am assuming "nature" is a combination of values and moral alignment but I'm open to a better definition). Education, travel, and other diverse life experience doesn't always make a person better, of course- but it usually does change them.

Religion can also change a person's nature for better or for worse. Usually, but not always, better. It's amazing how much "finding God" changes everything about the person it happens to.

I'll have to agree with Extremist on this one.
Hatred+stupidity=the most destructive and powerful force ever.

That which takes a master craftsman a long time to build can be destroyed by a stupid and hateful person in a matter of seconds.

Hence, hatred>love, evil>good, stupidity>intelligence, destruction>creation, death>life and satan>jebus/jesus/dumbass.

Boy, am I glad I'm evil. Though not stupid, but one just can't have it all, eh?

stupidity>intelligence erm, picture this

a oogyboogy person who had just invented the square wheel, with a club and the intelligence of a pigs ass (aww, now I´m insulting all the pigs in this world, sorry)

vs.

A ubermensch, with a selfmade Dragunov Sniper Rifle plus a Harrier Jet

Guess who will win??

evil>good What if the nazis had won the second world war, what would be the base of the moral.. killing jews would be good, now we would see that as evil..
Moral is made by the winners

so its more like good>evil

destruction>creation In order to create a new society, you must destroy the old, so these two go hand in hand, more like destruction=creation

death>life Death is nothing, life is something, something is always better than nothing

The Planes, because what happens on any can change your nature, from the wind being too strong this morning to falling in love.

Any of the things listed could change the nature of a man. In fact, I think the nature of man is to constant change. Except my mom, who will never change.

very difficult to pick only one! I think our natures are constantly modified by what we experience and thus everything will change our nature. Live is a constant choosing of roads to take and each different route we choose will make our nature as it is. So the one option missing in this poll is "everything"

But there is less point in destruction than in creation. I choose regret - although that is only one in a myriad of factors. Aegron is right in "everything" needs to be a choice.

Thats what i meant with my planes vote, just couldn't sum it up properly at the time, too many distractions elsewhere.

I agree with everyone who has said any one of those things can change a persons nature.

I myself voted for suffering.

It is my opinion that it is much more difficult for people to *choose* to change themselves under positive conditions such as love. Most people resist change unless it hits them on the head somehow; When life demands it in some way.

Basically, to cut my choice short, I chose love as I personally think that love is tied in with most of the other options. If this doesn't make sense, say now and I'll try to ellaborate.

I think the 'real' one isn't on the list, according to a very wise person, who shall remain nameless, fear could change a man.

fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to SUFFERING :D :p

Suffering changes the nature of people.

Also drugs can :thumb: - not neccesserily the bad type medicine can and electric shocks

Probably all of the above. Depending on the individual.
In my case, love and death both changed me profoundly.

8people - do drugs make a permanent change or are they a temporary fix? What happens then the medication is stopped?

Love takes many forms. Look at what happens to perfectly reasonable people when they become parents! Guilty as charged, BTW... :xx:

Definitely suffering.

Rallymama: Drugs do change the nature of the man permanently.

I doubt stupidity changes TNotM, because stupidity is everlasting, and stupid one does not change. It is learning and experience that enlightens a man. I also agree with all the love opinions.

Ssometimes I entertain the thought that everybody's nature is in him or her and all these events only trigger (not exactly the right word, sorry) some parts of his or her nature. For example a same experiences (holocaust) will change two men differently.

ArrynMorgerim, I recognize how addiction can change one's priorities and motivations. If that doesn't color your behavior and choices, not much will.

However, with my question I was thinking more of "therapeutic" psychotropics, administered under medical supervision. What happens when they're taken away? Are you left with someone different than the person who started the therapy? If not, can you say that the person truly changed under treatment or had a change forced upon them?

Thanks for pointing out the imprecision in my question. :)

What DOESN'T change the nature of a man? Every little experience, no matter how meaningless, changes you in at least some small way. I guess from the type of answers presented here that the common interpretation of the question is "what changes the nature of a man in a dramatic, obvious way?"

Of course, what's dramatic or obvious is kinda subjective, at least in my eyes.

[ December 17, 2002, 03:57: Message edited by: Judas ]

So I'm the only one that picked death?

By death I thought you meant a near-death experience. That can really change your outlook!
:angel:

I believe that nothing can really change you without love - it can be love destroyed or love begun, but love is the center of all other dichotomys.

And no, I do not mean "eros," or romantic/erotic love, but the deeper love of the utmost soul of man, or the lack thereof.

Sex. No, not love, sex.

before: virginal man
after: non-virginal man

seems like a change in nature to me :D

*I* believe that it is hatred. Hatred is the most powerful force in the universe. It stems from greed, betrayal, understanding, knowledge, stupidity, and, most of all, from love. All things, on a long enough time line, lead to hatred. It is the single most powerful force on Earth, aside from God, but I won't go into that. Hatred built America, the hatred of unfair taxes, regulations, and a belief of superiority. Hatred almost lead to total genocide a number of times, most notably WW2. Hatred leads to death and suicide every day. I can't think of anything more powerful.

[ December 19, 2002, 17:57: Message edited by: Slith ]

But hate causes blindness, and paranoia so that the "hater" will trip over his own feet (Hitler to name one)

Hatred leads to death and suicide every day Suicide is not cause by hate, suicide is caused by fear and weakness

Well, the kind of person you are is affected by more than just love. The more ingredients the better, I say. Makes a deeper person out of you. And love is not the chief emotion, either. Far from it... Love is a lucky affair, for an astounding many. But anyway, due to some stuff I am working on, I can safely say suffering is huge. Suffering--whether it is a loss, a stumble downward, or a lonely, long hermitage, is enough to empty a person of all their warmth. You can inflict suffering on yourself, too, if you examine your inner self too much (and you can examine yourself too little, and you will suffer from ignorance).

And do not label something you have so little knowledge of and no wisdom for.
Quote: Arthur Schopenhauer
They tell us that suicide is the greatest piece of cowardice... that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person.

Every one of those things can. For me, it was love and growing up that made the biggest change in my life.

I can see suffering as the other big one, read Night by Elie Wiesel and you'll see my point there.

In a similar vein, Paingod by Harlan Ellison. That more then any other convinced me that suffering can change a man. Even though I did vote for love. (I think.) :)

@William
I didn´t say suicide was wrong, I said suicide was caused by fear and weakness, not by hate

If you associate fear and weakness with the concept "wrong", then you should not label something you have little knowledge and no wisdom for

[ December 20, 2002, 20:53: Message edited by: Morgoth ]