http://www.thememoryhole.com/war/un-petition.htm

yikes. Harrasing, beating, and killing unarmed and unthreatening UN aid workers. What will the wonderful governments inhabiting the Mid East come up with next?

Give the Palestinians back their country.

Suuuure...
...the Israelians got it after the WWII becouse of sympathy but they don't deserves it anymore. Free Palestina from their fascict enemies.

A bit rich Ivanji, coming the day after 22 people have been indiscriminately blown up! Or were they all fascists, and their killers deserve the land more?

The argument about the land goes back several thousand years, so to bring it back to the creation of Israel in 1948 is futile. More recent land "acquisitions" can be further questioned of course, but this was NOT Palestinian land, it was Jordanian and Egyptian. Something to do with a war waged by those two against Israel.

Other than that, your argument is well resoned. Not.

On topic, I must confess that these are worrying developments, and though I would like to believe that the UN aid workers are not in themselves targets of the Israelies, they should be given better protection and more respect than they are.

More up-to-date news from the BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2517061.stm) on this story.

[ January 06, 2003, 14:29: Message edited by: Viking ]

There was also a incident during the 6-day war, where a unarmed UN supply convoy was destroyed by Iraeli tanks.

Ok.

Has ANYONE even stopped to consider just HOW the Jews got there in the first place?

Does anyone think the United States (or Britian, France, Belgium, Finland, Poland, Czechoslovakia) just loaded them all on a ship, and dropped them off at the beach? Rolled in some tanks, and cleared out everyone that was already there? And dropped some Seabees off, who rapidly constructed some shoddy housing?



Negative. Grab a book. There was CASH (as in "Money") involved in the whole affair. As far back as the 1880's. Jordan and Syria. It's been their land (and Christ, there's been civil wars over the area for the past 200 years).

It's not like this was unsettled land, here. There actually were country borders. And the Jews had been buying it. Under false names, and even falser pretenses most likely, but buying it nonetheless.

A few comments from my side:

1. A propos terrorism: Who talks openly about who killed count Folke Bernadotte of the royal house of Sweden during parlays?
2. Journalists as well have been injured. One of them (one proved) just for fun. Thanks be to God he had protective armour on.
3. Originally? You mean the time when Jews came to the land inhabited by Canaanites I believe? Check in Bible or history if you don't believe.
4. Nothing and I mean nothing justifies destroying civilian housing. It's more than terrorism.
5. Poland didn't load Jews on ships and have them go. Before WWII 10% people in Poland were Jews. During the war many Poles died trying to hide them in their houses. After the war betrayed Poland could do nothing anyway. The shamefully sold by allies government was powerless and communists took over the de facto rule forming People's Republic of Poland vassalised to USSR. Only after that had Jews been expelled, in 1968 to be precise. And the reds still continued their anti-Nazi guise in politics and culture.
6. I believe both sides should be forced by UN to hang up guns. Terrorism is unjistifiable, same is terror.

[ January 06, 2003, 16:23: Message edited by: chevalier des Trois-Tours ]

Nothing is justifiable

Wrong.

Beer is justified. But since this is Teh Alley, I'll not go into detail.

The conflict in Jew/Muslim land is the Wholey Rubble. Jews want it all for themselves. Muslims want it all for themselves.

No sharing. Just MINE!

Now, Rabin was trying something pretty ******* radical. And someone took him offline. You can insert jokes like "You're only President, for life" here.

And the sad thing is, it wasn't any of the older WW2 generationers that did the unplugging. It was a Law kid in his 20's.

Which means, the new generation has been effectively brainwashed. The WW2 people are a heck of a lot more accepting. Or at least, as Jews will be. They will cuss and spit and buyout your company, but they will deal with the situation rather than kill each other. They have a limit, and that limit is death. Assassinations just aren't their game style, anymore.

The new generation didn't go through that. And they are brainwashed to the point where it will keep the conflict perpetual. This is the beauty of the situation; you know it's nature.

There's no Asprin or Nitro tablet for this problem; there's no magic cure. And there's not going to be any magic cure, United Nations or UnUnited Nations.

It's not going to work through force, on these people. You can nuke the entire site and make it clicking hot for 100 years (take away the toy). You can work on the new generation, and make them accepting (not just tolerant; tolerance will breakdown just like it has now) of the other. You can wait until the whole thing blows up, and GETS you involved whether you want to be or not. You can wait until one side completely wipes out the other, and the friends of the "other" get involved with the survivor.

There's several different routes. Personally, I prefer the Nuke solution. The entire World would become educated, very rapidly (or at least, in terms of our lifetimes). It's like, Social Reform on a planet scale.



On a related side note, has anyone else watched "The Ozzbourne's" on the Tely?

I'm not really a big fan or anything, and I just started watching it. Usually I don't care for sitcoms, like "Friends" or "MTV's Playhouse" kind of shows. But it's fairly good. And fairly funny.

Anyways, my point is The Mother.

Watch her; she sits between the kids all the time. The boy and girl totally go off on each other, cussing and name calling and the works. And she doesn't say a single word.

But as soon as the food fight or kick-boxing starts, she's THE first one in there breaking it up. You can cuss, yell, fart, and gesture; just don't hit or kick.

I'm telling you all: Teh Mother is OUTSTANDING.

Folke Bernadotte was killed shortly after WWII. It was an act of terrorism committed by, among others, a former prime minister of Israel who was obsessed with Palestinians being all terrorists.

Oh, good. Let's start an "atrocities committed by Israelis and Palestinians" thread. That'll be productive.

Or we could look at what they do today.

What they used to do:

Jews: terrorism
Palestinians: terrorism
Brits: occupation

What they do now:

Israelis: occupation
Palestinians: lots of terrorism

How to resolve the situation: saturation bombardment of ICBMs. Problem solved.

I've had this thought for a while, and it's not just limited to the Isreali/Palestinian conflict.
Either kill them all, or just step back and don't get involved. Let's stop trying to push other countries around. While we're at it, let's kill all the politians who want us to die when they say so, where they say so :flaming:

"or just step back and don't get involved"

This is the part where it gets wikked.

The World just isn't as small as it used to be in the 1550's. Burning boats and stuff.

The other side of the Lake just isn't all that far away anymore. In terms of seconds and hours, mind you...

Hatred breeds hatred. And nothing good comes from hatred whomever you hate. Hatred is an ilness and as ilness should be cured. Causes not symptoms. 1% world total income is enough to make the lives of millions of people significantly better. Not by giving them the money, but by providing them the humane minimum for long in future.

If we don't deal with this utmost poverty and desolation, we may well spend times more money on our precious nukes, fancy aircraft, sophisticated spying devices...

[ January 09, 2003, 19:21: Message edited by: chevalier des Trois-Tours ]

Once upon time a kid stumbled across a toy, or something else valuable and claimed it his, played with it. After some time, his parents (or whoever else) forced him to leave. The toy was left lying around and along came some other kid, who claimed it as his, for it was just lying around. But then came back the first kid! And so an enormous dispute came to be. In theory, they both had a right to it, and so they began to terrorize each other in battle for the toy. Along comes Mr. US and claims that it should belong to kid #1. But kid #2's friends (Arab countries) also wanted the toy (kid 2 let them...).
Suggestion: share it!
Kid #1: ok
Kid #2: no way

And recently, Kid #2's attacks on the first kid have suddenly become unclivilized, even though kid 1 was also doing it! Reason for considering kid 2 evil: Politics and other BS.

Thats basically what its all about!

Ekhm... I think I have laready said that Jews were not the first Semitic tribe in Palestine. Those that had been there before were Canaanites (it's in Bible too, so religious Jews have to admit that, it's also scientifacally proved) from whom Palestinians (not Arabs) descend. There are not many actual Arabs in Palestine, Beduins are closest, but still not 'genuine' Arabs.