this should be an old topic .. but i am new here

what is your opinion on copying games with CD writer
the fact
1)everyone in SP plays games
2)most of the games are expensive
3)most of us here have CD writer..right??
4)a CD cost you nothing comparing to a game
so honestly, have you even copied games from your friends?? sharing the fun, and saving much money
personally.. i know this is not right.. but it do save me a lot

[ January 11, 2003, 14:22: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

I have never and likely will never copy a game CD from somebody else.

Not that I haven't copied 5.25" floppy disks of games for my old Apple IIe and later my IBM PC when I was younger and had no money (and then later 3.5" floppies :) ).

Now that I have a good career, and can less afford the time for a game than the price, I even turn down offers of game copies.

[ January 11, 2003, 06:39: Message edited by: Blackthorne TA ]

I'm with BTA, although I date back to the old Apple II days (no e's, gs's or even +'s). Can still remember how painful it was to buy the first Wizardry game when $49.99 was a large amount of money and meant a lot of lawns mowed. I used to be pretty good at copying floppies and getting around the copy protection when I had no money. Now, however, I know and actually comprehend how much effort goes into these games and how much harm pirating does -- not only to the direct maker of the game but to many others as well. If enough people illegally copy games, your game makers will go out of business and then the game playing community suffers.

I usually just borrow Cds from my friends.

Though...

My Dad has a friend who has a small business which deals in copying games, I have had two games from him.

Sometimes my friend will put some things like patches and downloads onto a CD for me because they are too big for me to get onto the laptop

Usually I just get music CDs though - I have about 3 copied ones, quite useful because we both play our CDs a lot and sometimes the tracks get mixed up and we just re-copy them for backups :)

I don't really see the harm of it, atm I need to save up a lot of money and I don't get to go shopping anyway, and if there is a song I really like and a friend has I'd probably ask if it could be copied - copied CDs you can give your own lables, not sure if you can for the originals

I unfortuneately haven't had the money spare to get a CD writer at the moment but here's my opinion for what it's worth.
I wouldn't buy copied games, I was offered copies of NWN and dungeon seige and the like for free and turned them down. By taking the money away from the deveopers we're shooting ourselves in the foot. It's alledgedly what killed the amiga.
Now, this what I see the use of copying games is. Backup. I have had to buy red alert 2 and it's expansion again because my CD's died from over use. When I finally get round to buying a CDRW I'll be making copies of every game I own, and keeping the master copies safe. BY BG and BG2 disks are looking a bit duffed up too, but then Bioware and Black Isle make stronger stuff ;) .
I do have one question here though and I feel it is very important.
When buying a new PC nowadays, you often do not get a windows disk with it, just a ghost disk. You have already paid for the licence, so why not just get a £5 or something knocked off disk? It's companies refusing to give the buyers of new PC's disks that will help piracy of software to spread.
Also, anyone agree that if microsoft reduced the cost of operating systems then piracy of windows would be lessened?

Only once when I lost :eek: my BG1 nr. 5 disc and was about to enter the city at last.

In fact if you only buy the games you really like, it shouldn't be a problem paying for it. I remember the days when I stood in a store with nothing in mind and just looking on the behind of the games boxes and saying: this looks kinda cool let's buy it.

Thank god for growing up :)

Edit: Oh wait I don't believe in god.......stupid phrase ;)

[ January 11, 2003, 13:40: Message edited by: Apeman ]

It's not always as easy as just copying CDs. Only a handful of CD burners can override certain protection on CDs, and most older drives can't do it at all. Of course, if you get a cracked game to begin with, it's a different matter... But I presume you're talking about copying original game CDs.

There are very few games released today that don't have copy protection. The problem is, the protection usually only screws up legitimate customers who have bought the game, like in the case of NWN, where the situation was so critical they had to disable it altogether... Those who play warezed games never have any of these problems because the protection for them is removed. So it really makes you wonder what those idiots who decide to put copy protection on for a certain game are thinking. The only people that suffer for it are legitimate customers.

The only real protection that works (and makes sense) is requiring a unique ID to register to play online or post on the official forums. I'm totally ok with that. But anything else I consider making fun of paying customers.

Recently I even found audio CDs with *read* protection - I simply wasn't able to read it with my comp's CD drives, neither with my writer (which is pretty good, even CloneCD compatible) - and since I rely on my comp to listen CDs that was pretty annoying.

I returned that CD to the shop, claiming it's faulty becuase I wasn't able to read it. That must have been something new to them. They eventually pointed out that CD was copy protected. I replied not only that and that it was even read-protected. Initially they refused to give me the money back. However, only after I harshly pointed out that I didn't like the suggestion that I have bought it to copy it and to then return it :mad: , they were embarrassed and finally handed me my money back.

And yes, I only wanted to *listen* to that CD :p

As for games, I playtest games from my friends or play demos - when I like it I usually buy the games. Since I choose carefully I don't buy and really play more that 5 games a year.

As for me, I believe those who copy games to make money this way deserve the frown. However nobody will convince me that if you have more than one computer in your house you should buy more than one copy of software. No one will convince to Bill's point about prices. If Win on CD given with a new computer costs twice less than for already bought computers it plainly means that the latter price is twice too high. It also most probably implies that the 'true' price that should be demanded is quarter the normal one. DVD films are way cheaper and for example Disney's computer-made anim films cost you 20-25% the price of a game and don't tell me the game costs more to be made. So software distributing companies get what they're asking for. Speaking colloquially, if the morons used they brains, they would abandon the money-reaving anti-piracy campaign, copy-protection (I fully agree with Taluntain here) and bribing parliaments and governments to legitimately distort the law according to their liking. All their arguments are easily torn apart basing on pure logical 0/1 process only. What's more, Bill Gates is the most merited copyright breaker I have ever heard of. He used and then signed as his own and sold parts of other people's work, disassembled or even not, signed sale-purchase agreements for what he didn't have, used illegal means of market competition (thus those people's and their families' fate goes on his account), and towards law he acts like a rapist. Initially contra legem or at least prater legem, now adjusting the law to protect his prey. Think of the more moral and legally acting competitors he brought down, about their workers and their families... As for customers, at one moment Bill ordered a survey. A version of Windows upgrade was to be priced &95 (with an ekhm... big margin of profit still), but if it were to be sold for $195, the income would be 5% (five percent) greater, however many customers will be lost. And I mean many. Of course some just have to buy the software (already running on windows) no matter the price. Because it's simply cheaper and less time absorbing than for example redeveloping everything under another system. Guess what he chose? Bingo. $195. It's sort of short-ranged price-oriented market thinking. And legalised thievery of course. I'm no judge in those matters, but all those sort of give LE impression at best.

I usually make backup copies of my games, in case someone or something decides to maul the original CDs. Some manufacturers say "you can get a new one if your original one was broken", and I suppose that's true if *they* broke the CD before you bought it. (Too paranoid to rely on their "kindness", I'm afraid).

Last time I checked, you are allowed to make one backup copy of any CD you have purchased, yet the manufacturers would (of course) say "no!", "boo!" and "shame!" if you asked them. (And why shouldn't they). Microsoft has an interesting approach, though, stating that "you are not allowed to make *illegal* copies of this disk", whatever that means. ('If we do not like you, we will throw *a* book at you. Maybe not *the* book, but some book nonetheless')

Backup copy restriction, especially together with the 'won't give another if you break it' is simply obvious vulgar money mongering. There is a very high probability that the disk will sooner or later stop working if you use the original one all the time. I suppose they also use low quality disks so as to make them break earlier and you buy the thing for the second time. It's disgusting. Actually it's even illegal and if sufficiently proved enough to make them pay and/or in certain legal systems to put them behind bars.

I believe that its OK to copy CD's. I mean, some of us just can't afford it (for example me, a 15 year old who makes about 200zl. = $50 a month through english lessons and is not willing to spend it all for 2 computer games!). The prices are simply way too high! I mean, 100 zl. (25 bucks) for a computer game?! Get real. Especially here in Poland. I never RECEIVED an offer for an illegal CD, I went to the market and REQUESTED and illegal cd for, like $5.
That I can afford.

Probably in the US its a different matter. But the mentality and pensions are a little different.

p.s. Dude, I totally HATE CD blocks. I wasted a good cd-r trying to make a copy of Diablo 2 Expansion from my buddy :-(

Well anyways, thats my opinion. Its good to hear that there are people who will pay the full amount - that way the game developers will stay in business :)

That's a pretty weak argument for believing the copying of CDs is OK. What do you do when you can't afford other things you want, steal them? And I'm sure you'd think that was OK too eh?

Copying games or music cd's because you can't afford to buy them is a lame argument. If I can't afford to buy a new drive for my computer or something similar, I don't go out and steal one on the grounds that "I would pay for it if I could but can't afford to buy it right now".

People work hard to create these games, and if you copy them, YOU ARE STEALING FROM THEM. You are also making it less likely that good games will come out, since the companies lose income from your theft.

Tal's idea is very good for multi-player games, but what about single player games? Bring back the code wheels!

There are very few commercially successful games today that don't have multiplayer as an option. It's pretty much a necessity to guarantee high sales.

Dude, I would never steal.

If a game is no longer made, would it be alright then to copy it?

My copied Cds were originally intended as backups, (apart from the ones my dad sent me - I hardly ever use them. That is 2 of the copied ones.) two more are Music backups and mixes, the final a backup of the music Cds on one disk which never gets played because it might get wrecked and won't be able to be used for it's purpose.

About the id numbers - they don't always work. when The Sims was released in England the all had the same id number - (eg. every house party expansion had the same id, but different from livin' it up) because of this when you sign up for the sims on the website it won't let you because the ID number has been signed up with someone else - only the latest expansion has a unique number per CD.

Blank Cds for being written on can't always be used as each cd has a set of numbers - which is why some games require the certain CD... however this info may be unreliable :o

I am not totally for CD copying - as for I am not totally against it, it can be useful for certain things, backups, shareware, and sharing games which at the time are out of stock or ridiculously priced of which you can buy the game when it has gone down in price next month - though I know that isn't good either. Games were two people have paid for and still want to play it but can't divide the time between them may copy the Cd to make things easier, whether that is right is of course debatable. When it is copied for the sake of it or to sell on, or because they don't intend buying it when they can get it.

Theoretically, even if a game is no longer available in stores, you're not allowed to copy it. The company who made it still holds all the rights to it. And only if they publically bless copying of it (since it can't be bought anywhere any more), or offer it for download themselves, then it's ok, but not otherwise.

Matthew G., copying a game is stealing intellectual property. So your comment that you would never steal sounds rather unconvincing, considering you admitted in the thread above to buying warezed CDs. That's same as buying stolen goods.

Question for all: Who is the most succesful software pirate ever?

The people that make warezed games buy the originals in the first place, so there is some money going their way.

If the price on original CD's wasn't so high I'd go for it.

Btw, I'm not saying ALL the games I have are copies, I have a lot of originals - Baldur's Gate, Command & Conquer, Red Alert, Midtown Madness. That accounts for about 2/3 of the games I have. But when there's an opportunity to buy a cheaper version of a game ... well, I usually go for it.

In our country, we say: Musialbys byc debilem, albo po prostu glupi, jesli zaplacisz pelna cene za gre jak mozesz ja miec ZNACZNIE taniej.
And similiar texts...

Copying CD:s is wrong. It's not only illegal, it's stupid. If people copy games all the time, the people who make the games would be ruined, and then why would anyone make games anymore. So what do we learn of this? DO NOT COPY CD:S!!!

I only copy/download games when there not available anymore in the shops

I mean, 100 zl. (25 bucks) Err, dude, be happy, here they cost 45€, thats ±45 bucks

[ January 18, 2003, 22:41: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

Tal is right about unavailable games still being copyrighted. The holder of the rights may decide to release it on a compilation or collection or they may decide to remake it, or produce a sequel, which would heighten interest in the original and possibly lead to a re-release. So it is not legal for you to copy these. BUT, I think most law enforcement people in this area have better things to do than bust people who play Space Invaders on a MAME.

also, 8people, In the US at least I believe you are allowed to make backup copies of any software, music etc. In fact, the copying itself is not illegal, it is the distribution of copyrighted material which is targeted. I can sit here with a stack of 500 copies of the same game, but I'm only breaking the law when I sell or give these away. At least that used to be the case. Copyright laws now are so sticky that it's hard to tell anymore.

Fhirn, I sympathize. Mainstream music cd's are up to $19 - 20 here. BUT get a job mowing lawns or something, ya thief!

[ January 19, 2003, 07:46: Message edited by: Nutrimat ]