Staying with the topic of religion here, let me give two examples and see what everyone thinks about using religion as a bases to get what you want, to help you file a law suit, etc.
Example 1) Kimberly Cloutier was fired from Costco Wholesale because she refused to stop wearing an eyebrow ring at work. She filed a lawsuit against Costco for not "accommodating her religious practice. " Ms. Cloutier is a member of the Oregon-based, Church of Body Modification. http://www.churchofbodmod.com (I kid you not). The church says piercings and tattoos "are essential to our spiritual salvation."
Case 2) A woman in California is suing Macy's Department Stores because she was fired as a result of 9/11. She is Muslim and Pakistanian. She was fired in January. Macy's reasoning for firing her is she gave discounts to customers without authoriztion from management. She calims she was fired because of her ethnic and religious background. As far as I know both lawsuits are moving forward.
I am not against body piercing or tattoos. I am also not against people of other religions or ethnic backgrounds. But isn't this going a little too far? I worked at Macy's before and other retail stores, what the second woman was doing was stealing in my opinion. And it was this past January she was fired, not the Jan immediately after 9/11.
I've worked at other places were they ask the employees not to wear jewelry, including crosses. In some cases its for safety. When I worked at a zoo, they asked us not to wear jewelry when working with an animal. An earing or necklace can get caught in a beak or claw and can cause damage. However, they could not enforce it because in the past someone was wearing a cross around their neck and wouldn't take it off for religious reasons.
I don't think it is unreasonable for an employer to make a request to remove certain pieces of jewelry or religious icons. Especially in todays environment when there are so many different religions and beliefs in one area.
You know I think I am going to form my own church that says it is against our religion to work Monday through Wednesday. Then, when I get a job, I'll tell my employer and can only work Thursday-Saturday and they have to abide by it because it is my religion.

My opinion is that while beliefs have to be respected, there's a difference between religions (or lack thereof) and sects named churches of whatever. There's also much difference between regular religious displays and pierced eyebrows. The second case, of the muslim woman, may be that a non-muslim person probably wouldn't have been fired but less severely punished.

Unless the policies of Macy's has changed in the three years since I worked there, dismissal is the punishment for what she did.

OK, then I agree she's exaggerating.

What I really like is religions that specifically exclude other religions.

As in, "You will crush those infidel defiliers."

Or smite them. Or bring back their foreskins.




Seriously. If you were tasked with bringing back a bag of foreskins, would you take the time to make sure your cut just got the foreskin?

Or would you just chop the whole member, chuck it in the bag, and move onto the next one?

These are questions to which I've never really been certain of my (fairly logical) conclusions...

I was fired once because I didn't want to work at sundays. Tough luck, but **** happens! If a manager is looking for a certain person to work for him, then that is what he should get and not something else.
If your religion sais you must wear piercings and your manager doesn't want you to, then you simply don't qualify. So what? Looking for something else would be an option, but I wouldn't sue my boss for my religion.

Afaik, There is no religion that tells us to kill/bother others. Not christianity, nor islam. both religions tells us to respect other people. If a god/religion tells you not to do something, then you must trust that that god/religion will give you the things you need without doing it.

(I'm not very good in explaining things, as you see. Sorry. :heh: )

[ January 15, 2003, 14:25: Message edited by: Master of Nuhn ]

Master, I think you do pretty well explaining things. Especially in more serious topics.
In your case, that sucked that you got fired. I think in that case though, it was a legit case of an employer not accomodating someone's religion. Now, on the employers side, if a position is advertised wanting someone who was available 7 days of the week, that's completely different. The employer is stating up front what he/she needs. If someone applies for a job knowing that then says afterwards, "I can't work on Sundays" and then sues when they get fired, that is wrong.
Personally, I think it is so sad when employers have to go this far to protect themselves.

Again we see people taking advantage of rules there to protect and help. This will end up with these rules being 'overlooked' a lot in the future IMO when the current trend for political correctness passes (may it be soon). The peircing part just made me laugh a quiet chuckle, but the woman claiming unfair dismissal on ethnis discrimination? After what she did? Perhaps she wasn't aware that any retail company would instantly dismaiss you, if you were lucky and were able to pay the money back that waqs 'stolen' in this was then the police would not get involved. (bad PR for the companies, they don't like it). That is going a bit too far methinks.
When these laws are abolished the ones who suffer won't be people like her who use it to profit themselves, but those genuinely needing them. :flaming: Worse is that her case is proceeding, thats a disgrace!

Well in Singapore, this girl was expelled for wearing a Sari, which is absolutley compulsory for any muslim girl.

sari&muslim? sari is Indian.

Indonesian actually, which is mainly Muslim. Beside the point, though, as neither saris nor Islam are restricted to specific areas.

As for all these religious rights issues, I have to say I can't understand why employers should be required to pander to every whim and desire of their employees. I understand where the movement for workers' rights started, but it's just gone way too far.

[ January 17, 2003, 19:03: Message edited by: Capstone ]

No, sari is from India. Thence in Indochine :) Never mind. The situation there is indeed on the verge of explosion. As far as I know this has not much to do with religion. Religion is used as a pretext or a facade even. My opinion is that making money on human needs must be brought to an end. Even purely capitalistic motives may lead to such a conclusion as long as shortsight lust for immediate profit is overcome and some logical reasoning applied. To demand some consideration for others' fates from people is I'm afraid too much in this world.