View Full Version : Iraq and the sanctions and a possible war ...
Tue, 14th Jan '03, 10:25pm
There was prohibited material found in iraq by UN inspectors. No further details available yet but the material was obviously smuggleled into Iraq after they kicked out the inspectors. So indeed the accusations were correct that Saddam has continued his ambitious programs to aquire weapons of mass destruction in secrecy.
However, I hope the situation can be settled legally, that means by the UN, and perhaps even peacefully - by an Iraq that obeys the disarmamanent regime it obliged to accept.
Clearly anyone who seriously thinks that Saddam could have just been talked into accepting the inspectors again is a fool. The threat to use massive military force against Iraq as displayed by the US was crucial in forcing Saddam to accept the UN inspectors in his country again. And admittedly, despite all moronic US rhetorics and the not less moronic US flagweaving, this is something the international community has to be thankful for, Iraqs neighbours especially.
However, the US, in case they attack without consensus in the UN security council, would nontheless commit an act of agression, for a good cause maybe, but still an act of agression. I point that out to make one thing clear:
The insisting of international legal procedures and laws is no sign of weakness, actually it's the only way things should work. War only is the ultima ratio. And nowadays international law no longer gives a right to go to war, not even for a sovereign country; that died after WW-I with the foundation of the League of Nations and that though was continued in the UN as well.
A country, accusing another country of violating international law, and eventually going to war against it without legitimation by the UN and without self-defence, wouldn't be much better.
[ January 14, 2003, 22:47: Message edited by: Ragusa ]
Tue, 14th Jan '03, 11:08pm
Please post your source, I cannot find anything on the usual news outlets.
This is not a good developement. I was actually holding out hope that someone in the Iraqi government or military would get smart and take Saddam out of power. I will say this, right or wrong, the UN will have to take incredibly strong measures to avoid a war if this truly is a major discovery. :eek:
Wed, 15th Jan '03, 12:49am
The news were on tv tonight, regular (and pretty reliable) news (no silly private tv channel bull). It was said by Mr. Blix, the leader of the UN investigator group.
Wed, 15th Jan '03, 1:31am
well, this is disturbing news, but I have expected them to find something sooner rather than later. The talking heads here have often mentioned the necessary time line in regards to a successful invasion into Iraq. I always thought Bush was pushing as hard as he was because of this window of opportunity avaiable for a successful mission.
I agree 100% with Ragusa. I was angered by Bush's initial chest thumping, I hope he will demonstrate the proper leadership to deal with Saddam, and not alienate our allies.
I am sorry more fine young men and women will put theirs lives in harms way as a result of the human penchant to be powerful and destructive.
Wed, 15th Jan '03, 3:14am
What is even more disturbing is the fact that there is nothing on any of the news web sites. CNN, Reuters, and Fox News are all on either the economy, John Lee Malvo, or Bush's threats (and even I have to admit to getting sick of those). Ragusa, I don't doubt you or what you saw for an instant, but something is wrong here! :confused:
Wed, 15th Jan '03, 1:59pm
The details are limited, but here (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030114/140/diwig.html) is a link to the story which broke last night.
Wed, 15th Jan '03, 2:48pm
Well guys, how are we going to spin this one.
Poor old Saddam is just afraid that big mean, aggressive America is a threat to his people, so he is just doing all he can to protect the Iraqi citizens? :rolleyes:
Or maybe we can finally admit that Saddam cares nothing for his peasants, and will actually go out of his way to put them in harms way. If he really had Iraq's best interests at heart, he would step down and go into exile. He has enormous amounts of currency stashed in Egypt and various other numbered accounts around the world. It is not like he would have to starve if he gave up leadership. Of course, if he would have had his peoples best interests at heart he would have complied with the UN resolutions, come clean, and now Iraq would again be a member of the world community, and be able to easily provide for all her citizen's needs.
I still hold out hope that someone with some power in Iraq will come to their senses and depose him. But one way or another, Saddam's days as a leader of a nation are numbered.
Wed, 15th Jan '03, 3:03pm
still hold out hope that someone with some power in Iraq will come to their senses and depose him. That requires that there *IS* someone with power in Iraq other than Saddam. Unfortunately, he's been too ruthless for too long to allow that to happen. Deposing him is going to take external forces, and then we'll get to watch the rush into the power vacuum. That's when it'll be time to go back to a non-intervention policy, but we know that will never happen.
Wed, 15th Jan '03, 4:13pm
As cold as this sounds, it would only take an Iraqi patriot who can get within close proximity of Saddam. One bullet and Saddam takes the eternal celestial dirt nap (and in his case, hopefully there is a hell). The UN (actually the US under the request of the UN, unfortunately) rushes in to prevent civil war, and a new government is established. Don't know if what came out of it would be better or not, but at least there would be a chance.
Fri, 17th Jan '03, 9:25pm
More details on this can be found at NPR news. (http://news.npr.org/) Look under World News. Unfortunately, I have no audio capability in this lab, so I'm unable to listen. Doesn't life suck....
Fri, 17th Jan '03, 9:48pm
Those are my ideas and i mean no offense,
I live in Turkey and from what i read America forces us to fight,as we have no other choices we will rally with America against Saddam.Cuz he's a madman with billion bombs.He even builds his mosques as the shape of a Scud missile(proved, don't laugh :) ).He says he doesn't have any bombs...then i'm Eminem.It was proved before that he had bombs(remember gulf war).I think America is right to wipe him off.
BUT some think America is going to demolish Iraq because of Oil,that may be right i don't know, but if this is the reason.All America citizens must go to Iraq and see how innocents are slowly dying.They have 1/2 arms ome have no legs,some of them stiched their organs together.This is not the right thing.But hey who said Saddam's doing the right thing?So someone must die and this IMO this will be Saddam.
Sat, 18th Jan '03, 12:19am
If America actually cared about the citizens of Iraq's sufering there would be Americans there right now giving medical treatment to them, and they would be funded by the US government. That might actually help them prove they do actually care about those people, the suffering they have to go through and not the oil.
Of course once they have the oil it's the peoples own problem once more after all, they'll not in a stragetically important place any more.
Kill off humans, let the wolves take over, the world will be a better place :flaming: