Would you want to live forever?And why would you or not?
For me i'd wish a long life like 300 years but i'd not want to live forever.To see the end of the world would surely suck.The temperature of the world could rise slightly.Or maybe there would be a WW3 and maybe the human race would destroy itself.
Brr,i can't bear to think of it.
No living forever wouldn't be good for me.

I once read a story about a man who was born in renaissance italy and got the "gift" of immortality. At, first, the man tried to use the immortality to gain power and wealth and ended up to be the advisor of Karl V.

But the man grew sick of politics, because whatever he did, new problems and troubles seemed to appear endlessly and he lived only to see that whatever he created, had in the end to crumble and disappear.

In the 19th century, he was so sick and tired of all, that he searched a place to hide himself from humanity. His only wish was to die. But he couldn't. And he saw no way, how to get rid of his immortality.

And his biggest fear was, that one day, the world would become a cold and lonely planet that would look like the moon and he would be doomed to wander forever in a neverending nightmare of loneliness and hoplesness.

Live forever? Hell I'm already sick of mankind's stupidity. Why on earth would I want to see that for eternity? I'll take death at 60 due to a heartattack thank you very much :D

No,that wouldn't be something for me.To see all your friends die would be horrible ... :(

I'll be seriously surprised if I walk around after 40. But... eternity could be interesting. Of course there are so many drawbacks that were I to get that eternity I might well regret the thing every second after some point. A prolonged life could be nice as well - shall we say some 500-700 years. Of course conditional upon not aging normally.

I would be interesting to live forever, but I would probably get bored after the first few hundered years.

I would like my age progression to stop. Immortal in terms of aging, but not of diseases, accidents etc.

Though being immortal would hurt if you had no one to share it with.

Anyone interested in this can read Healer, by F. Paul Wilson. Good book, get it if it's still in print.

Maybe if I wasn't the only one, at least it wouldn't be that lonly.

Or if I had pointy ears ;)

It would get very frustrating if you didn't have the right personality.
And if you were blinded or something that would suck.

It would interest some especially if you would never get disabled or old. I, though, wouldn't want to. I would feel terrible living on and seeing all my family and friends pass away. I already pity those people I read about who in their high school reunion learn that they're the last of their batch. Then you would have to see your children, grandchildren, etc. as well all new loves you might have pass away too, just like Highlander.

God, no. I would hate that. Everyone I would have ever known would die... eternal agony... I would pray for death daily...

Immortaluty? Yes, please. With the cionditions of eternal youth and the ability to self-terminate.
And with other people having the same deal.

I think I could handle the "people just falling away" thing. Possibly. Maybe. I think. If not, "Activate self-termination."

The "Highlander" style immortality would bee vcool. imho, espcially minus the Game. Or even with the game.

(*hugs her elves. Agent, and other bishies*)

Well i'd like to remain permenantly 18 until we have TIE fighters and Deathstars and X wings! Then, I'd like to be a B-wing pilot ... and die of old age in a Princess Lea look alike's arms ...

Seriously though, No ... I wouldn't want to live forever

To live forever would be the ultimate punishment. It is almost like a wish granted by some powerful being that goes horribly awry, such as you would find in any of your mid-range quality fantasy short-story collections. I mean, truly think of how bored you would become. Humanity may be constantly changing and evolving, but not fast enough that it would hold your interest for more than 100 years. And then you have the issue that every loved one that you would have would die. So it would be like that horrible feeling you have when you move to a new school and don't know anyone, and have to learn how to make new friends, except it would continously cycle, over and over again....
Nope. No way. Not for me.

It would depend on the details. If the form immortality would take included no ageing and immunity to physical damage, I'd definitely say yes. The world gets better and better all the time and I'm very curious as to what will happen next.

On the other hand, it would be pretty gruesome if your body kept deteriorating and you couldn't die no matter how bad it got. I don't wish to become a ghoul or a lich. Also, people in my family tend to be completely demented with senility by about 70, while continuing to live to 100 or more, and it would be pointless to carry on if I couldn't remember who I was or what I ate for breakfast.

No, thanks. I think that 45 is gonna do it for me!

I'm going to speculate a here, with a few possibilties:

A) True Immortality. I cannot die, nor can I be killed.

This is probably the last thing I would do. I think that if I couldn't die, get killed, etc., I would simply transform into a proud and arrogant jerk. Well, improve on being one, anyways. Besides, if I suffered some horrible tragedy, like watching my parents, friends, teachers, etc. die, I don't think living would be that great.

B) Eternal Life. Live forever, but you still age.

Actually, this is probably even more silly than A. I mean, eventually, you'd just be some horrible, old, shell of a man, senile and withered. And then I'd probably blow my brains out. Not a great way to die.

C) Eternal Youth.

Obviously, this is probably what most people mean by "eternal life". Frankly, I'm not sure if I would want it or not. We go through a lot of hard stuff. We won't forget our tragedies. We lose too much to bear. Sometimes I think that there is a reason most of us live to be about 75 (and by "us", I mean we First-world people with internet access).

No, I don't think I would choose to live forever. Long life and health, sure. But not 'til forever and ever on this world.

I don't want to be Tithonus.

True immortality? naaaaaah rather die when I'm 70..

BTW, how can you live without dying??

Until you die, Morgoth, until you die.

(Who, me, weird?)

I would really like type-C immortality.
Best would be if it could be made:
A:spreadable upon will.
B:retain the possibility of self-termination.

I would go and rule the world and such.
And I'd invite all my friends and some sp-people to join the fun too (my friends aren't into CRPG's)

Immortality or invulnerability? And if invulnerability, then invulnerability of body, mind, or both? And if, what kind of (level) invulnerability?

Highest level of invulnerability for body would give you an indestructable body, that would never suffer from pain, hunger, lack of sleep or energy, oxygen, etc. Whereas highest level of invulnerability for the mind would make impervious to depression, psychosis and other forms of mental disease and problems (possibly even destroy your emotional weakness altogether, effectively making you something of a logicmachine in human body).

The thing is, that invulnerability/immortality of body would not be an endless suffering, because your entire personality (and "soul") would be destroyed soon enough after the end of the world as your mind would break completely, making you a husk of a human body with no mind to speak of (and in the end, no mind at all... just an indestructable, living sack of flesh). Then again, an invulnerability of mind strong enough, would grant you immunity to the negative things connected to such an event. Meaning you would just float around in the nothingness thinking about things. The one in the middle, where your mind is impervious enough to not break, but vulnerable enough to not grant you total immunity to the mental pain and suffering.. that would be the worst option.

Whatever the case is, don't forget that a persons body equals a great deal of the persons personality. An immortal or invulnerable body would inevitably change who you are. And not necessarily for the worse.

I would be immortal, mostly invulnerable (ability to feel pain and slight weakness, and to need sleep, is essential in my opinion for one to remain at least a bit human) in body and in mind I would be as I am now. My mind would evolve enough with the years I would come to experience and grow, yet still hopefully retain my humanity and ability to activate the ultimate self-defences if the end of all ends would come.

Still, I place my trust in that the universe is eternal. New matter is being created and destroyed all the time. If humans cease to exist, then another interesting race will do the job for you. And if they all die some day, then in time, new planets and races will be born again. For an individual, death may be eternal. But for the entire existence in whole, the balance of life and death goes on forever.

Still, one doesn't count mere thousands or even millions of years there. So I think it's invulnerability enough for anyone to last until the end of one universe. Or who knows? Maybe even the personality of a mere human can evolve enough to actually enjoy a multibillion years long existence.

Ah, a thought question! Immortality vs. oblivion. Hmm... which one to choose, which one to choose... Yes, er, no! But maybe... I need to think... Difficult, difficult choise... :p But yeah, I guess I´d pick immortality, even if it would not include eternal youth (of course, it should be included in the package).

Wouldn´t it be cool to see and learn, feel and enjoy for more than mere 70 years can possibly offer to you?

I would have to go for immortality.
Some people have said youd be sad forever when your friends died, but you would eventually get over it even if it took a million years.
And in my definition of immortality I include the fact that you would evolve with the rest of humanity so you wouldnt be left behind if the human race lived another 3 million years.
And when the earth ends, just float around till you find another planet, which would probably take millions or billions of years but that is just a drop compared to eternity.
Given the time, also think of the things you could learn and witness. It would be worth it for the high-points of these.

I'd like to be immortal and not aging and invulnerable and stuff. And the self-termination thing available, of course.

Which you wouldn't use anyway...

Sounds like people want a neverchanging self in an everchanging world.

Actually, immortality sounds like the worst curse I can think of

I agree with you morgoth under one condition...
If I was the only Immortal
On the other hand, if I was part of a race of people who where immortal (IE Tolkens elves)What the heck.. stick with your oun kind and no trouble.
The ability to self terminate would be nice... in this way if you had lage groups of mortal friends you wouldnt have to live with there deaths...
Come to think of it this is probably the reason for the traditional elven aloofness, they dont really make a frend ship in a resonable (human turmed) amount of time. and normally dont try as such a thing would only invite pain.
In any event my two cents.

I'd like a longer life than what is the norm now, but forever? Sounds too painful -- think of the bone crushing loneliness after a while. Unless, as was said, there were other immortals. Then we'd kick back and have some fun!

I'd definitley pick immortality, I would probably get over the deaths of my friends and if I had eternity I would make new ones. It would be cool to explore the universe but I would love an FTL drive to do it with.

No immortality for me, i don't like to think this "life" is all there is. so i don't want it to last forever. if you can't move on what's the point? yes, losing your friends and loved ones would be terrible, also, after a while i'd get bored.

I agree with you morgoth under one condition...
If I was the only Immortal
On the other hand, if I was part of a race of people who where immortal (IE Tolkens elves)What the heck.. stick with your oun kind and no trouble.
The ability to self terminate would be nice... in this way if you had lage groups of mortal friends you wouldnt have to live with there deaths...
Come to think of it this is probably the reason for the traditional elven aloofness, they dont really make a frend ship in a resonable (human turmed) amount of time. and normally dont try as such a thing would only invite pain.
In any event my two cents. In Baldur's Gate 1 there is a book which somehow gives the reason I think immortality is a curse,
Something about the Lord of the End of Everything, Jergal.

He became too familiar with his power and in the end the difference between having absolute power and being absolute powerless was impossible to tell..

Life get's boring, and self termination isn't an option when you are immortal.

Everybody dies and actually I am happy I can die

[ April 23, 2003, 12:55: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

yes. Aging or not.

I like to just look at the nature. Listen to stories. Watch the moon. Watch the garden with birds and smell the flowers. Listening to waves. I wouldn't grow tired of that. I enjoy simple things. I was raised that way. On a small quiet island. 15 miles wide. for 20 years.

Just watching, listening, smelling, hearing and feeling is what I enjoy everyday. Its the little things that can bring you down or cheer you up. Its your call. Not your mom or girlfriend or Boss. Its your call only. And as it is now you don't have an eternity to figure it out. Mark that. ;)

[ April 24, 2003, 02:56: Message edited by: Nobleman ]

Actually when i think about it ... it would be silly to live forever for the following reason:

Within the next few million billion years, the Sun (sol) will expand into a Red Giant and consume all the planets up to the asteroid belt. So we'd be toasted.

Then again, we may have coloized other planets, solo systems, galaxies by that time ... and we could play 'starwars'

Oh i don't know ... just food for thought i suppose...

Nah. The world sucks. And just think how wrinkly you'd be. Ugh.

1) Its quite fun how you think in RPG terms – level of invulnerability...

2) I am also quite amazed how many of you tend to reject immortal life. Is that because of that constant „anti-immortal“ drill?

3) Well, the lack of ability of selftermination, as you call it, could be a similar challenge as the presence of death coming upon you.

4) I like a lot the perspective of ever-changing myself.

5) There is never-ending suply of things to look at, enjoy and think off. I doubt I could get tired of it.

6) I am always curious to try something new. This is one of my hopes.

BTW I wrote a story (quite a nonstandard one) about this. Pity it is in Czech.

2) I am also quite amazed how many of you tend to reject immortal life. Is that because of that constant „anti-immortal“ drill? Life is the period between birth and death, we need death to be alive...
How can a immortal person live?

Edit:
1 letter, big difference :doh:

[ April 24, 2003, 23:04: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

Morgoth - I'm going to make an analogy here.

A positive number is a number greater than zero and smaller than inifinity. If one can't reach inifinity, it doesn't mean that positive numbers aren't positive.

The idea is that an immortal person is still living, and the idea of death exists. But it just isn't going to reach the immortal person. Chances are he is still going to see death, unless he locks himself up in a room. Which in case is a really sad life.

Probably one of the main reasons the "anti-immortal drill" sticks with me is that I, as an immortal, wouldn't want to one day realize myself as a callous, cruel, person with no regard for life, because I have failed to appreciate it.

Morgoth - I'm going to make an analogy here.

A positive number is a number greater than zero and smaller than inifinity. If one can't reach inifinity, it doesn't mean that positive numbers aren't positive. I didn´t say that

But you are right

Infinity is not a number
Immortality is not a life

Erm, I don't recall you making an analogy about numbers either, but anyways -

I think that infinity is only a theorectical number that just cannot be reached.

If immortality is not a life, then immortality does not equate to living forever. Which seems to be a self-contradiction, if only in definition.

Okay, define life, does it have an end or not?

Actually.

The word "infinite" means the same as "in-definite". Infinite doesn't equal some so crazy amount of something that nothing in the universe can't count it. It is a simple name for a concept of a figure that is unknown. Something between 1 - 10 is not infinite, for you know where it begins and where it ends, there're 10 possibilities. But something that lacks the other side of the figure, either the "end" or the "beginning" or both (either 1 - x, or x - 10, or x - x) is infinite because the figure could be infinitely large and long to either side.

Edit:

Morgoth: Fetch a simple high-school level biology book from somewhere, your local library for example. I just wrote a huge explanation, whereafter I realised I made no sense even to myself. It's rather complicated, and I've so little left of all that information left in me to start explaining anything rationally. Suffice to say, definition of life is a real big question and something that they are actively searching an answer to.

As far as "does it have an end or not" goes. I'd say it's not a matter of "if", but "when".

[ April 25, 2003, 10:48: Message edited by: Foradasthar ]

Life is independent and ordered reproduction of adaptable heritable programs, utilizing energy sources from the surroundings.

But since you live forever you don't need offspring and immortality overwrites adaptability and utilizing energy from the surroundigs somewhat. Depends on the cell replication within the immortal body.

So in a way Morgoth can be right. :) Morgoth is right in a sense that a bycycle isn't per definition a car but they are both means of transportation. Immortal beeings are not per definition life but they are both means of ordered interaction with the universe.

Good thinking Morgoth, I never thought of that one. :hmm:

[ April 25, 2003, 13:07: Message edited by: Nobleman ]

I think I would want to love forever, if it would get too sucky I am sure I would be able to kill myself. I wouldnt want to be invulnearable. Just stop the aging would be fine by me.

:doh: Okay. "Infinity" was probably the wrong word. But I think I meant "the largest number" when I made the analogy.

Nobleman - that is an interesting point. Although if an immortal person could be killed, I think that he/she would want offspring if she wanted immortality in the sense of progeny. After all, in all those years of living, there are chances, even if more minute by each year, of an immortal dying.

I didn't mean that you couldn't or shouldn't use the word "infinite" for describing "forever". Afterall, if I remember correct that's what I did further back in this thread. I just said that to clear things up on that little debate of yours about the actual meaning of infinity. ;)

Acording to Sokol, to live means to actively exist from birth to death (and possibly reproducting).

I agree, it won't be a *life*. We'd have to use another word. But it's only a matter of words. To me, life means thinking, creating, learning, experiencing... You can do this when immortal. Apart from this universe is changing, so you are geting new objects "of amusement" constantly.

BTW, I want to bring another topic. Granted you live forever, what do you thing of possible end of the cosmos (complete termination of space)? Acording either to science or christian religion the world is here not forever.

[ April 25, 2003, 23:02: Message edited by: ArrynMorgerim ]

Actually, according to science, the world is here forever. Our universe will of course become cold and dead until even atoms break apart, effectively fading into nothingness. But that's not the end. As this "world" was born, so will others be born. If you are immortal, you will experience new worlds dying and being born all the time, forever. Not just see the end of this one and then drift on in nonexistence.

BTW, I want to bring another topic. Granted you live forever, what do you thing of possible end of the cosmos (complete termination of space)? Acording either to science or christian religion the world is here not forever.
Actually, according to science, the world is here forever. Our universe will of course become cold and dead until even atoms break apart, effectively fading into nothingness. But that's not the end. As this "world" was born, so will others be born. Actually, I think both are existing scientific theories concerning the universe. And there are lot's of others. But they're only theories, if I remember my physics class correctly.

effectively fading into nothingness I don´t really agree with that, I think that the atoms will become energy, back to what it´s made of..
This energy will then become matter, and the cycle is complete..

Although if an immortal person could be killed An immortal person can´t be killed, else he be mortal

If i were to live forever, it would have to be with some one that itruely and deeply love... i could then use the cliche 'that our love shall last forever' :angel:

Theories they may be. But the theory about matter and antimatter being born all around us all the time has just about been proven IIRC. How this matter is being created is anyone's guess. But it seems certain enough that that is indeed the case. The Big Bang, therefore, was not just some incredible coincidence. It was a very predictable event that had to happen as the fluctiations in the matter-antimatter birth would inevitably allow it at some point. And just for that reason, it will happen again.

Edit:

Morgoth:

Yes, while the atoms break apart, they will indeed become energy. But even if the "space" of space was limited, the energy would still be shattered so evenly around the universe that it might as well not exist. Besides, after enough time even that energy will dissipate out of existence. It's the law of entrophy, where all the time energy is being lost, but not regained. As for matter being created, creating matter needs much more energy than the same matter would release upon being destroyed. So it's impossible for the same energy to just change form, create and uncreate all the time while never losing any of its potential.

[ April 26, 2003, 12:43: Message edited by: Foradasthar ]

Morgoth - immortal can also be interpreted as able to live forever. I think invulnerable would be the word for not being able to die.

So to "live forever" either means just not dying of old age, or not being able to be killed. Either way.

There is a theory of big collapse (the gravitation of the space will sto its spreading and it will collapse in singularity). Well if you are immortal, what will you do when your space collapses into a simple point? You would have to find your way "out of the space"...

Even if you are indestructible, invulnerable and ever-lasting, can you last when everything other is destroyed?

I wouldn't want to live for ever. What would life be without dying? Sort of like how you can't have beauty with out ugly, because you need something to compare it too, or you need to take a flashlight in the dark to see the light, or you need silience to say a word, or you need good for evil.....etc?
Besides, I'm sometimes curious on what death is like.

@ArrynMorgerim

There was a theory like that, yes. But it was discovered a while back that the critical amount of mass that is required to make such a thing happen does not exist. Instead, the gravitational pull is too weak compared to the speed that the matter is escaping with from the centrepoint. Which means that the universe will expand forever, unless something strange comes in the way.

Yeah, but I meant to point out the thing with an immortal's inavoidable death in this event. Think of it: would he stil live? (well he shouldn't be able in the singularity...)

Aside from the boundaries of physics, wouldn't there be psychological problems too? The psychology of the human being, wasn't, at least in my view, created to sustain an endless life.

The form we have now consists of two things the physical body and the soul which is the immortal part of our being.
So the phycological part should not be so troubling since according to the above theory the soul which mainly affect the phycological aspect of our lives is immortal.
:cool:

Only certain religions claim that there even is such a thing as a soul. I'd say that it hardly makes enough for one to actually call it an official "form" of sorts. Then again, I might have to draw back my words in terms of mutual understanding for actually having based so much on science earlier in this thread.

I am immortal, I have inside me blood of kings, I have no rival, no man can be my equal... Sorry. The Highlander theme song just instantly popped into my head.

Anyway, I figure if I had all of eternity, a good deal of it would be spent reading. Think about it. I realized this when I entered a very large library. If I were to dedicate the rest of my life to just reading the books that were in the library at that moment, let alone the books that would be published after that, I wouldn't be anywhere near being done when they lowered me into the ground.

Even considering that the bottom floor was children's books, and the top floor was a massive computer lab.

What exactly would you do with eternity? Other than read, I'd master at least five musical instruments. Hell, picture doing nothing but piano for a thousand years.

@ Foradasthar
IMHO all religions in the world believe in the immortality of the soul since the wellfare of the life after death is their most catching ad. Isn't it;
As for immortality of us as human beings is a rather difficult issue not only for the immortal but also and for the people around him.
Let's take an example: i am an immortal this means that i have a permanent age not affected by diseases not addicted to anything etc. This now goes in two ways. I still am the same person as now but the friends and family i have start to envy me and in the end isolate me because of these cool features i posess and because they see me deep down as an allien to them since i don't have the same everyday problems i have. The conclusion is that due to this allienation i will pretty soon think myself damned and trying to find a way to die in other words aliving hell for me.
The other way is that i decide to use these features for my own benefit and do the most logical thing a villain would do take over the world and estamblish an empire that would indeed stand in the test of time since i'm an immortal but since the mankind is not willing to have an emperor over their heads they would most definitelly try to overthrow me which means that this would be a living hell to the world.
These two ways to be followed are not very optimistic and personally i would love to be an immortal and travel through space in a f****** cool spaceship alone (ok with an immortal and very very very beautifull woman). :D

Well it's not a matter of opinion when it comes to what religions around the world claim about a human soul and its immortality. There are religions that don't place any soul on a human at all. And then there are religions that simply think the "soul" of a human is nothing more than construction parts of some greater essense which is gathered back when the human dies, and all information and personality that was in the "soul" is lost. I'll freely admit though, that I've no idea of the names of such religions. But they're there.

As for those two possible choises for an immortal you gave, that goes a bit too black&white. There isn't enough time in mere one lifetime of a normal human for an immortal to get spoiled and "evil". Just as not nearly every human is so weak and shallow mentally that they would abandon their closest friend and/or family member simply because they felt envy or fear towards his immortality. Much of it is up to you, as the immortal, what would happen. Certainly I believe that it would be fairly easy to lead a fairly normal life even. Only there is a limit to how long relationships you can have. And probably a limit to how many relationships you can have before you are unable to make any more commitments.. assuming you're a person with any amount of conscience.

Or in other words, you need approx. 15 years of theological studies (university, not just bible babbling) to roughly know what "trinity" is.

Dam you holy spirit.