The whole thing with the war on Iraq and the discussions here in SP brought up this question to my mind. Do you trust your govements choices blindly?
I don't trust my countrys goverment blindly. Every choice is made must fit some criteria first to be counted as a good/wise choice. These criteria are rather simple. Is this for the benefit of at least the larger proportion of the population; (even if i'm not included). How this will affect the relationships with the rest of the world and as far as it concerns the international affairs decisions are tey according to the international law; And of course is the given decision respecting the nature; (this is most important in our time).
Please tell me how do you feel about your goverment :)

It's the same for me. Politics are always about interests, and often about interests of particular groups. Sometimes, the decisions are simply dumb, though.

IMHO, you should always be wary about what makes your government do something.

If you trust something blindly, you don't realize you're trusting blindly.

I think that made sense. Myself, I take everything the government does with a big heaping bowl of salt. Of course, I'm quite cynical.

Yeah, not blindly I don't.

But a lot of times, I end up choosing the lesser of two evils. I think that a lot of Americans end up having to do the same thing. They don't like either choice, but there's one they can say they hate less than the other.

I could put some similies and examples in here, but I don't wanna hiijack it.

I absolutly love my country, and i support G.W. Bush in his recent endeavors. However, as a whole i fear my government. i'm not joking. :(

I certainly don't trust Jean Chretien or his band of thugs any further than I could throw them. I guess I could say that I trust them implicitly -- to do what's best for them! Sometimes, that helps me, and sometimes, it hoses me. But I have no illusions that they are there "for the good of the people." They SHOULD be, but they sure aren't.

Government is not a god. Therefore I can't trust it blindly.

While I don't think that anyone I know is willing to say that they trust their government blindly, I think more than one person in the world blindly never trusts their government.

You should never have to trust them blindly in the long run, but sometimes, for short periods, you have no choice. In times of crisis, such as war, civil unrest, or natural disaster, the government has resources, experts, and a view of the entire picture that those of us who spend a couple of hours a day evaluating the news simply cannot match. They can devote their full attention to the planning and coordination of a solution, and have experts in their employ who can do the same. A great example of this was the war in Iraq. We weren't 10 days in and “experts”, even some former US military generals, were proclaiming that the effort was doomed, that there were far to few troops, that the supply lines were to long, and that we were leaving too many hostiles behind in our "mad rush" to Baghdad. They were wrong. Of course all those same "experts" are saying that we are doomed to failure in trying to establish a representative democracy in Iraq. I guess we will have to wait and see.

That said, if they betray that trust, out they go in the next election, or if a severe enough betrayal, recall them from office.

The problem is that we don't kick them out. That is part of why there are breakdowns in the political system. Most people have short memories and are willing to forgive transgressions as long as the politician does something good (real or perceived) before the next election. (Sen. Kennedy, Sen. Clinton, and Sen. Byrd all come to mind for those of us in the US. I would name some Republicans, but Lott and Gingrich did lose their jobs, I guess that is the difference between the party that believes in responsibility and…)

I know everyone is tired of hearing it from me, but actions must have consequences, else the world is full of mistrust and chaos. The ideology of political correctness is part of the reasons why you cannot trust governments. It used to be that if you lied under oath, you lost your political position. Today, a remark that is perceived as racially insensitive will cost you your job, but lying, cheating, stealing, beating your wife, doing illegal drugs, and driving drunk are just part and parcel to politicians.
:(

http://www.theindependent.com/stories/012000/opi_ayoub20.html

I am quite happy with my goverments. yep, plural. Of course there are a lot of politicans, from whom I don't expect anything good. Actually, the most of them. And I have to accept, that when they're in charge, they're able to screw up things. The good side is, that the traditional mistrust versus goverment in my country is so big, that we don't let them decide any real important stuff.

I'm with Depaara (being from the same country) except alot more extreme. If I had the nerve and thought it would help, I'd walk up and... uhh, something. He's spent a cool BILLION on a gun registry program that won't do **** and he anually give 900 million to the CBC (canadian broadcasting corp.) 20% of the taxes go to paying of the INTEREST of the national debt(900 BILLION!). I really wish a different party could get into power. The Canadian Alliance, the republic party, would be my bet (I'd go with the NDP, the socialist party, but they're dicks).

For starters, i don't even have a government
Those morons in The Hague can't even make a deal :rolleyes:

and after that fiasco, there is no ******* way I'm going to trust them, after all power corrupts :heh:

Rotflmao. Our "goverment" is... well, the only GOOD thing I can say right now is that bot the president and the prime minister are women.

One of the female ministers actually asked her husband if she could take the offered position... how sad is that? Another one is a former beauty pageant winner, as in Miss FInland.... how sad can it GET? And don't get me started on thwe 200 goons in the parliament... *shudder*

No, I do not trust my goverment. Blindly, even less so. It's only people.

(Being nasty... and needing food)

@ Yago: No wonder you're happy. You can directly interfere with the course your governments are taking. I wish we could. :rolleyes:

@ Arabwell: I thought Finnland was one of the happiest countries in the world? :D

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. The real bug in this topic is not only the current goverment in any place in this world, IMHO the whole politicalsystem is having serious problems. In my country at least the politicians have become a sort of trade and in fact many politicians have helped (enforced;) their children in politics.
So now there is a major (IMO) problem/question.
How can i trust the decisions that litterally affect my life to someone who has found everything ready and have never depended on the salary that comes every month. I know for a fact that in Greece the rift between their world and ours (simple people) is almost chaotic.
What really scares me is the fact that the decisions made by these guys are unrealistic or worse affecting only the mass and leaving their slumber untouched.
Maybe it's the time to do something about it; :(

Heck no. Why should I? I don't even trust my own parents and best friends blindly, with them I just consider it my duty to act in a self-destructive way should it be needed for their benefit. I've said it before and I'll say it again: All forms of fanaticism and zealousness for any, *any* cause you can imagine, is dangerous and stupid. I believe in nothing, yet I reserve my belief for everything.

@ Morgoth

But even if we do have one, i don't trust them. They're only out there to think of ways to take your money. Our taxsystem must be one of the most complex systems in the world. Have you ever heard of pleasuretaxes ? It exists, for people who own a boat. If you read the paperwork involved, you'll be laughing your ass off, either that or crying from anger. :D

FInland may be a happy country, and it is, a great place to live and to be, and I DO love my country.. it's just that of the current goverment only the President has my respect...

Right now the things are fine. Who know how they will be in the future with... people... like these?

(Who, me, nasty?)

I guess government as a whole is a difficult and vulnerable topic if not task. for an entire country of people to agree upon or accept anything, is mindblowing. won't ever happen.

What about world citizenship? one government for all ? is it possible? we would have to decide on a common language. Hopefully not spanish or Spanglish or whatever they call it here in so.California.

English seems to be the most common language around so there would be less people to teach it to. The problem is that you would have to convince several thousand people in positions of power to step down. Also an entire planet is very difficult to govern effectively besides the fact that some people would refuse to be ruled by a system so massive.

As for the main post question, I'm a conspiracy theorist, after what I've seen I don't even trust my toilet paper.

Obviously I'm kidding though I never really trust anybody, just because you don't know why they'd lie doesen't mean that they're not lying.

[ May 05, 2003, 08:00: Message edited by: rastilin ]

:mad: I dislike my current gvt, I didn't vote for them and their policy prooves me right. :mad: On the ozther hand, we have some problems here but we have a great constitution and constitutional system that guarantees that freedom is maintained.

Looking at the US, where recently laws like the "Patriot Act" passed unnoticed in the aftermath of 9/11 (forcing bookdealers to tell the FBI about your reading habits - better don't buy a koran, or, to be safe, any unchristian book - and permitting them to tell anyone, you especially) with a new version "Patriot Act II" planned (when you're a terror suspect they could take away your US citizenship - which is against international law (not that they cared) - allowing Guantanamo- or "friendly but rough" service treatment when you refuse to speak, no info to relatives and attorneys after beeing arrested :roll: :spin: Bad when they made a mistake) - even our harshest laws from the RAF terrorist's "german autumn" can't match these.

With that in mind I can trust in my gvt not to infringe my rights, if so I have a good chance to stop them in court. So I don't trust them blind but with open eyes.

The government has its uses But I would NEVER follow them or any one else blindly.

Politicans are ruled more by compromises than by there own ambitions. They spend endless days dealing with commitees and reviews, their hopes and dreams dominated by and overwhelming disre to be liked.
Democracy as we know it is the art of achieving nothing by doing a lot.
And don't go thinking i'm some communist person or anything. I just hate the way all governments are run. Lets look at a typical Democratic government. Every citizen casts a vote, maybe every 4 years (give or take 2) and the winning party gets in power. They are in power for the rest of their term. With a few exceptions there is nothing at all the common person can do to change the government even if the majority of the population turns against it.

And the politions them selves, how often do the do anything good for the country. Here in New Zealand we have a huge over seas debt, a pathetic education system but a bloody big future savings for the old peoples pentions. What a waits of money. And then when this party gets voted out the next government will come and just throw away all this money, they wont pay off overseas debts nor will the improve the education system. Knowning them they will go and luanch (spelling?) some big anti nuclear New Zealand campaign. Which for one is pointless considering nearly every (sane) person knows it already is. But that doesn't stop them does it, No of corse not. And every one of those good for nothing people in New Zealand thinks "wow, they're making New Zealand nuclear free! They must be a good government, lets vote them in again"
And then the other half (yes they only use half on the anti nuclear thing, i forgot to mention that before) they use for campaigning before the elections, a waist of perfectly good money if u ask me. But then you go and ask any one in the government and they'll disagree and answer in a round about way "Na, stuff the country, all i care about is getting another 3 years rediculisly high pay for sitting on my ass all day".

Then lets take a look at another form of government - comunissim - But there should be no government in commuist countries.
Thats my point. They say "let every one be equal, apart from me and my friends and then all the rich people who can pay us a lot of tax, oh yes and then theres our over powered army who also gets better treatment"

And then theres a classical dictatorship. Did you know that more international human right laws are broken in dictatorships than in any other form of government. I rest my case.

And another thing that really pisses me off is that darn royal family. The only advantage they have for New Zealand is that they supply another court higher than any of our own. But ofcorse our government (been the cleaver people that they are) are going to get rid of that but still keep the stupid queen as our head. What may i ask it the point behind that!?!?!?

And what should be done? you ask. The UN should be given much more power. They should be given power like the queen has over New Zealand (she can kick out any government if they're not doing there job right, but like she really cares) but over every country in the whole entire world. They should become the worlds greatest military super power to renforce their laws. Yes, like greenlion said above, one world government!
In my opinon its the only sulotion to this huge international problem.

(Sorry about my ramblings, i tend to do that when the subject turns towards what i think about our government. But for once i think i stayed on the same topic :) ).

[ May 05, 2003, 11:40: Message edited by: Ruler of the Known Universe ]

Trust Howard? No way in hell. The government is the pits. Our governer general is a pedophile, our Prime minister is hanging out with Bush in Texas, the opposition is led by a moron. The premier of Queensland is okish. Though he makes several thousand mistakes, so does everyone. At least he's not a complete jerk. But now I think of it, he hasn't done all that much good (that I know about) anyway.
The Lord Mayor of Brisbane is a complete and utter idiot. No more needs to be said.

I agree, who could trust howard? He's just a puppet of USA. The only thing he ever does him self are bloody racist. So i can understand you not trusting him.

You are surely have a very very big problem with this prime minister. He looks as everyone with different skin colour or different beliefs but him are deserve to suffer and he does not give a penny about them.
The way i see him he looks more fitted in a dictatorship (being the master mind) :spin:

Ahm, yes, a little Australian Duce. :( Is their anyone who actually likes the Australian Prime Minister ? I get the impression, he's as popular as Aznar is in Spain. Let me guess, he isn't planning to go for another turn as Prime Minister, is he ?

Nope. I don't trust my government blindly. And I think I never will. I don't know much about politics but the choices my government makes(I mean only about the educational system) are not quite right. The next 2 years I will suffer :( if the system wont change.

@ Alexander the Great
My young friend don't discourage yourself with these trully exhausting years there more to come if you succeed and pass to the university. And there you will find the real meaning of education problems that our goverment has created.
I want to remark that at least in my country the politicians see the whole thing as an occupation (can't find a better word) and not as a service to the country as it is supposed to be. And this is making the real difference because when you are working you are looking to gain a profit but when you are doing something for the greater benefit you don't expect to gain from this.
Thus at least the politicians in Greece are dangerous to our society because they look how to gain from their position not how they will serve Greece better. :(

Its not even i trust it at all. :p

And i dont trust no one blindly as its completely foolish if you dont have anything to build trust on.
Mostly it seems too distant and leecher-type. All wearing suits with slimmy tongues draining the country.

There are exceptions i apologize for such generalising but most of them are such IMO.

I don't. Although I trust that something will happen that is good for some people, often enough it isn't for me. Especially government programs for "No child will be left behind." Usually, that involves making sure all the below average kids are caught up. Then the higher level people like me are left behind, but no one notices...... stupid hipocrates.

That's always a danger of big government, Compulsive Dementia. Least common denominator works well when dealing with math but sucks badly in social policy.

THat is the real problem we are not numbers we are human and noone in the goverments takes that into consideration :(

No, I don't. God save us from the reds!

It's amazing how they win elections after the memorable 50 years of the regime that is thankfully no more. Considering the right side is equally greedy and screwing things up... Huh, pity there's no one related to our royal dynasty now.

And heh, I can only trust them as far as raising their salaries and giving lucrative commissions to their friends is concerned. I even don't have anyone to vote for, not a single man.

You know, I was just looking at this question, and it really isn't all that fair. "Do you trust your govt. blindly" is on par with "Are you a complete moron?" I mean, who trusts anything blindly? Not one person on here said "yes" and it's not all that hard to see why. I'm surprised so many people (myself included) answered such a rhetorical question.

I think that's true Mithrantir. You should change the topic to "Do you trust your government?"

Even if the question was changed to that my answer still would be NO, certainly not, with the same arguements as i mentioned above (well most of the things i said above, some were eralivent(spelling?)).

A big fat NO! My government has screwed our people too often. :mad:

I'm surprised so many people (myself included) answered such a rhetorical question.
Because you enjoyed it.

There's only one way you can trust information from the government and that is if you break into their offices and steal it. Even then it might be a plant.

Meh, I ***** and whine but don't know enough/amn't smart enough to make an informed descision on anything so I generally end up deciding that the bigwigs probably know what they're doing

Whatever, scepticism is always a healthy trait: http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/7752

"... some are fit to lead, and others to be led ..."Or "Fear and conform" or in Perle's words: " Trust me. (http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/5631)" More about Leo Strauss, his influence and theory here (http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/131/focus/The_Philosopher+.shtml). Generally I dislike the idea of politicians who might invent enemies to keep their people in-line. This kind of elitism wouldn't quite match the demands of democracy. It's certainly a thing worth to keep an eye on.

[ May 13, 2003, 00:58: Message edited by: Prozac ]

when men are united -- and they can only be united against other people
Food for thought, but who trusts press releases anymore?

"In age we are varied"
"In cynycism we're about 1000"
-me

And it is as it should be. There's nothing much we can do about our government now anyway short of running for election and actually keeping our promises once we get in power. Mind you if one of you guys does run you've got my vote. Maybe we could run a can of tuna for election, maybe it could actually get elected, a jackal kept power for 15 years this way.

So many Australians here.
Well anyway back to the subject
@ rastilin
There is something we can do in "democratic" countries like Australia, we can vote for someone who will keep their promises.
I would love to run for the elections but I'm not old enough yet :( . And I disagree with all the main parties in New Zealand any way so that is a problem.

[ May 28, 2003, 11:21: Message edited by: RotKU ]

So you could pretend to agree until you get into power then stab them all in the back.

I was wondering though, this might be off topic but if no one trusts their government then how come people can trust god, I would place more trust in someone I could penalize if they failed me than someone whose entire existence I have to take on faith.

If there was no god, human beings would be so fragile and vulnerable, it would be a rather sad state of things.

Lol, and if your unhappy with your goverment, try democracy instead, then you can be unhappy with your neighbour. ;) :D

And we would be pleased to see some democracies emerge in my neighbouring countries, which are still monarchies. An old habit, which is hard to get rid off.

Finally (after 3/4 months) the Dutch have a government, still doesn't mean I trust them though :p

This is a rather hillarious incident from our politicians.
There elections and the party that was in the goverment is re-elected. The new prime minister (who was also the old one) comes to the parliament to take the vow with the new goverment (which was more or less the same with the former one). He takes the vow and then he goes to the podium to make a speech. At one point he starts to talk about HIS former goverment and he says:
The former goverment left behind a total chaos in the state departments :confused: :D :spin:
Now that is a statement and i still think that they believe we are idiots