It's simply amazing how a thread about Dark Arts and White Magic can become one about who is responsible for the evil here on earth: Satan, God or human kind? (It's been discussed before, but it seems we want to know more about it)

Well, what are your thoughts?

For some interesting quotes, search Dark Magic from God.... (http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=edit_post;f=20;t=000277;reply_n um=000031;u=00002570)

It all depends on what you believe. Personally, i don't believe in any god, so all evil we've ever whitnessed is caused by mankind. It's easy to put the blame on a character like satan, but to me that's just fairy tales.

I don't believe in any god, so imo men created (in their minds) God and Satan. Same goes for evil, it's a concept invented by humans that applies to humans and to the things they do. So who responsible for evil on earth? The people who invented the word, shaped and reshaped its meaning for millennia making it fit their own interests ... humans.

IMHO at least the Christian God claims responsibity for evil. But defining evil is not easy!

It is clear that God is sovereign, and that He has willed the existence of both good and evil, and that all of this is for His own glory.
Proverbs 16:4 says, "The LORD works out everything for his own ends -- even the wicked for a day of disaster"; Isaiah 45:7 says, "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

(from http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/s-z.htm )

Do a search on "theodicy". :)

Well, I think that that God knows that he created Satan, because one cannot have good without evil.

I don't see the logic of creating something so you can define another thing.

Put me into the Oxymore camp.

Oh?

It´s simple really, God might have needed an evil person so He came out as the almighty good guy.

Since you can´t define good without using evil

[ April 20, 2003, 11:55: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

Yes you can. God is good, God is love.

The answer is a combination of Satan and man-kind.

Kovalis is right. God didn't create evil, he created your own free will, which often leads to evilness. If you believe in Him then you shouldn't have done bad things and no evil would have excisted.

Ok, before you all start to mention all the things that "christians" have done, I'll say; The crucades may have been done in His name, but I don't think that he agreed with them.

God excists, love, life and freedom is examples of that.

Now the X-files starts so I'll go and watch it. :rolleyes:

Love and freedom are proof that god exists ? You gotta come up with something better than that to convince me.

Kovalis is right. God didn't create evil, he created your own free will, which often leads to evilness. If you believe in Him then you shouldn't have done bad things and no evil would have excisted.And why did God create free will?? To make us **** up?


God excists, love, life and freedom is examples of that. What exactly is freedom,
what exactly is life
and what exactly is love??

How don't we know that evil is only an absence of good, instead of another abstract thing?

Just a thought.

I don't see the logic of creating something so you can define another thing. Rather something being nonexistent as effectively relative and logically tied with another thing - like good and evil. In Christianity evil is absence of good - and God. Regarding Genesis as a metaphore, we could say that disobedience towards God breeds all evil, which is because God has not programmed us, but instead given us free will and set laws and standards to follow. Going around those is going around God, breaking those is disowning God - thus evil.

We should all remember to define which God we talk about before writing "God is...". Even if you consider not believing in your God to be blasphemy, at least do it to avoid misunderstandings.

The Christian God is "almighty" and thus must also be the cause of evil, even if you may claim that it is indirectly.

Since you can´t define good without using evilYes, although I cannot believe that God is so vain that he had to make himself look good.

Mankind being the cause of evil is the most likely. God did create free-will, which leads human prejudice and fanaticism to the surface.

How don't we know that evil is only an absence of good, instead of another abstract thing?

Just a thought. Might be, although I never seen a "good" action.

Define good, selflishness?

Every action is based upon the survival of one's entity, be it soul, mind or body..
The fact that you try to steer away from evil shows that you are trying to save your own soul.

Every action I do is selfish, to make the next day, enjoy life and to clear the path for the next generation..
The fact that lot's of people benefit from my actions is that I want to enjoy life, I can't enjoy life by walking over other's dead bodies

The answer is pretty straight forward isn't it? It depends.

It depends on whether or not you believe in God and the bible or not.

Clearly if you don't, then there is no God to be responsible.

Clearly if you do, then he must be responsible since he created it all? Sure Satan gets the credit in most places here, but is he not a fallen angel?

My answer therefore is No and Yes. Trust that helps ;)

Actually the question is if an evil entity or thing exist

That's something we will never know i guess. Not unless it shows itself to the world. There are some people who think they saw entities at a certain point in their life, and they usually end up in the nuthouse. :D

Which way is the Oxymore camp? Count me in!

(Goons.... driving me crazy...er)

Assuming that the entitiy known as God exists then he must be. And it did say somewhere in the bible that he was a jealous God so the theory of him creating evil to look good isn't all that far fetched.
But if you think about it it is pain that makes us learn.
Of course, as I don't believe in God nor evil it really doesn't matter to me, though it may be an interesting thing to debate for the hell of it

Yes, although I cannot believe that God is so vain that he had to make himself look good.Nah, if He were both evil and vain He wouldn't care about display.

And no, I don't agree He's responsible for evil on the grounds of the fact that He's created Satan once as a true angel that has fallen.

Besides, Satan grows in fat on our own precious little evil that we hone within ourselves.

If a total lack of selfishness, that is, utter and absolute desire to not help oneself, that it seems to me like that is lack of self-love.

I believe that when God said "He was a jealous God" in the Bible does not mean that he actually covets things, but does not accept other gods (false, according to the Bible).

And no, I don't agree He's responsible for evil on the grounds of the fact that He's created Satan once as a true angel that has fallen. Oh? But God knew what he was doing when he created Satan, he knew Satan would go to the dark side and unleashed his eviliness upon us...
God is responsible, that is to the price to pay for being Omnipotent and Omniscient

Besides, Satan grows in fat on our own precious little evil that we hone within ourselves. Precioussssssss, yesssss :roll:

If a total lack of selfishness, that is, utter and absolute desire to not help oneself, that it seems to me like that is lack of self-love.
Then good is having a desire to help others? Or good is being close to God?

Morgoth - I'm not a theologist or a philosopher, so I'm not going to say. I was only saying that not helping others is not truly selfish, but that doing everything without yourself in mind means that you just don't care about what's good for yourself, which doesn't seem like what would be "good".