ADHD, or attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder has been in the news lately, so I thought I would start a poll (and of course a little debate) on whether it is real, imagined, part of a deranged plot by Dr.'s and pharmaceutical companies to make a bunch of cash.

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 27 user(s) have voted.
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Poll Results: ADHD, real or imagined? (27 votes.)

ADHD, real or imagined? (Choose 1)
* ADHD is a real and treatable health issue. - 48% (13)
* ADHD is a concoction of the pharmaceutical companies who just want to make money. - 0% (0)
* ADHD is just a symptom of bad parenting. - 7% (2)
* ADHD is just children behaving like children. - 0% (0)
* ADHD may exist, but is also in some/many cases a result of all of the above. - 44% (12)

Probably exists.
Some new age disease that striked mankind; Like AIDS, SARS, Empola, cancer and the list gets longer and longer.
I can't believe how efficiently are we killing ourselves. :(

I think it's imagined...Wait, what were we talking about?

It is real, but it's a lot less common than people make it out to be. I know people who say, "Oh, I hate school. I just can't focus - I think I have ADHD." No, you're just a lazy, unfocused schmuck with a short attention span who'd rather say you have a disease than take responsibility for being a bad student. Having trouble concentrating is a result of boredome, stress, or low IQ, period.

I knew a kid in my neighborhood growing up who had it. He could barely finish a sentance his head was so screwed up. He had to attend a special school because he drove our teachers nuts. And his was a middle of the road case, not a severe one.

To a great extent these days, psychologists do pull this disorder out of their asses and slap them on undisciplined kids to ring up session hours. Of course the kid's parents just eat this up because it means they get to hide behind a "clinical disorder" rather than admit to the world they're terrible parents and actually start paying attention to their kids. God forbid these people actually take an active role in their kid's lives.

So my answer is yes, it does exist. But people mainly claim it as a cop out and the real cases are fairly rare.

I think it's a product of our culture, more than anything.

I'm bored, entertain me, I'm hungry now. I want something new.

I think it goes down to a fundamental level that is just going to become more difficult to change as time goes on.

Strange. I tend to agree with Death Rabbit. That's weird. :rolleyes: ;) But I see the problem a litte bit different.


ADHD, does it exist yes.

Why is it suddenly so common ? Articles that I read about POS, indicate, not the disease is the problem, the cure is the problem.

ADHD usally is treated with Ritalin (or a close relative). And Ritalin is the reason, why everybody wants a ADHD diagnosis. Ritalin works like a mix between a sedative and doping-pill. It keeps the children quiet and usually elevates their performance at school. So, Ritalin seems for many the easy-way out. And that's for ALL children, it does not need an ADHD-child to work.

So, problem solved. Everybody happy. Who would question the diagnosis? Children have no say.

But there are a thousand reasons for a child to be a problem child. And I think its questionable, to use a medicament as means of "disciplination". I ask my self, what do they take away from the children ? At least they take away the energy of children and make them more obedient, that's for sure.

So, I agree with everything that Death Rabbid said, except I think, people don't want to hide behind the diagnosis, they want it to get the Ritalin, which solves the problem for them. Which I personally think is not the right way to treat children. Even if they're problem-children.

I too am with Death Rabbit on this. However, I would like to add one thing after talking about this very topic a couple of weeks ago with my parents and in-laws: I don't think this is new at all. Back in the day, people were called hyperactive and worse things, but nobody thought to really pin it down medically. They were just ostracized at school and did poorly. The bad cases were called retarded or something similar.

However, Ritalin is prescribed way too much and parents would rather sit back and blame a disease or condition than look in a mirror.

I'm sure the disease exists, but so many kids use that as a scapegoat for being lazy little bastards that it's not funny. It's so often used as a cop out, and in my mind, it's another nail in the coffin of the concept of personal responsibility for your own actions -- or inaction, as the case may be.

Ritalin may be good for some kids, but bringing back the strap would work just as well on a few of these smug little hooligans.

If you ever meet a ADHD child you wont think they are faking it. Those kids are a hand full. I mean they have *serious* problems. Sure some might be added up to bad parenting but far from everything. I think it has existed through all times, it is just that in the past they were just seen as little pests. I mean an ADHD child is a loathsome little beast, my sisters stepson has that diagnosis and the kid has some serious issues. They need all help they can get if you dont want them ending up in prison or the looniebin.

Still it is pretty rare and I agree with Death Rabbit and Yago.

Well since my brother has ADHD, I can pretty much say yes

It is real. And it has been know a long time. It can be tested and it is bullet proof. But it is NOT common. And no you can't blame your bad puperty manners on it. Either you suffer from it completely or you don't suffer from it at all.

I don't know where you got the idea that its something brand new. Sorry I don't even bother looking in your poll.

Edit; Ok I do know why you got the idea. But in Europe it is age old common knowledge. But why should americans for once be concerned with what goes on in little insignificant europe. Moreover and especially the american youth... :p Sorry *insert harmless american joke smilie here*

[ April 30, 2003, 00:43: Message edited by: Nobleman ]

I might have to challenge thee to a duel for insulting my parents. I myself have ADHD. You'd never know if you met me, because I have it under control with the help of medication. (Of course, I tend to do really dumb things without said pills, but hey, nobody's perfect.)

@ Soul Forever Seeking

Well, 'tis not thee nor thy parents we insult. ;)

I don't know you, but I'll take your word for it that you're a legitimate case. What we're discussing here are the people who abuse the commonly accepted 'symptoms' and use them to gain sympathy, or an excuse to be lazy, or to get drugs to turn their children into zombies and avoid responsibility, or whatever.

We (or at least I) are ragging on those whose rediculous behavior and abuse of the system are a slap in the face to one such as yourself.

The problem comes in when kids do not see it as a problem to be overcome but an excuse to do whatever the heck they want. Believe me, Joacquin, I've seen these kids, the real things. These kids are why teachers take stress leave. In some cases, I think that medication should be a pre-requisite to school attendance. More consequences that actually mean something to the kid are necessary if our schools are to survive.

I think everyone who is going to has replied. I am a bit surprised not to hear from a couple of parents, Rally in particular, but maybe she is busy elsewhere.

Here is the problem I see, having never met a true ADHD child. I have 2 nephews who are/were on Ritalin. They were drugged to make up for bad parenting. How do I know? They could pay attention when they chose to.

If a child can play a video game for an hour or 2 without problem, I don't believe that they could possibly be and ADHD child. The definition seems to prohibit it. One of my nephews just finally grew up enough that they stopped giving it to him. The other ones father divorced the mother, took the kids, went to counseling, studied parenting books, and adjusted the child’s diet. He went from a drugged average student to straight A's in one semester.

I am not saying that ADHD doesn't exist, but I would bet that if there weren’t a $6 billion dollar pharmaceutical business driving it, probably only 1% of current ADHD diagnosis would be confirmed as real.

For those of you who are parents or someday hope to be parents, if they tell you your kid is a candidate for some ADHD drug, before you start letting them take a drug, give them the simple test. Take one of the current game systems, and a really cool new game or 2, sit them in front of the TV and observe. If the game holds their attention, I think you need to look elsewhere for the solution to your child’s behavior.

Hi, Darkwolf! :wave: Yes, I was quite tied up with other stuff yesterday. I saw your post but couldn't reply, and then when I had a chance to reply I didn't have much to add to what had been said. Namely:
1. ADHD is real, and Ritalin works to control it.
2. ADHD is grossly over-diagnosed, whether by frustrated teachers, lazy parents, or selfish doctors. Too many people are looking for the easy way out. No one ever said that parenting was an easy job!

Here's a sad commentary. Velcro and I are, ahem, "older" parents (I was 36 when I gave birth). Neither one of us had spent much time around babies or small children as teens or young adults, so all this child-development stuff was new to us. The pervasive talk of ADHD had us wondering, at times, about our little man, when all along he's been nothing but a normal toddler. There are times of life when it's NORMAL to have a short attention span!

A side note (that may be worthy of its own thread, someday) is how a school can almost compel a diagnosis of ADHD. Depaara, I've heard stories (probably apochryphal) about schools that refused to allow children to come to class without taking medication. While it may "take a village" to raise a child, why does everyone else seem to have more authority than the parents? Why are issues involving children still treated as "guilty until proven innocent?"

And another thing . . .

At least here in LA, there is a growing societal pressure that makes people think that any deviation from the "norm" in their children, no matter how minor, must be dealt with by an immediate trip to some expensive specialist, a battery of tests, and occupational therapy (what a silly term when applied to a two year old). I speak from experience.

Both of my children were slow to talk. My wife got all bent out of shape because the various groups she joined (i.e., "mommy-and-me" and the like) indicated that our children were not "where they were supposed to be" (whatever the hell that is). My wife's nervousness increased until I just told her to spend the few hundred buck to take the kids to some specialist. She understood that we would deal with the results and no way were the kids going on any drug or going to any kind of "therapy" without some long discussion. Well, my son tested as behind on such things as fine motor skills, speech and the like, but not far enough to where they wanted to do anything to him, so that was fine. (He's five now, speaks more than most kids and appears perfectly "normal.") My daughter is a bloody genius who appears to have perfect pitch and an accurate sense of rhythym (she didn't talk because she didn't feel like it and was getting everything she wanted without talking).

My wife later admitted that she felt pressure from others about this. I guess what I am trying to say is that there is a growing culture here where it is acceptable to have something wrong and need drugs or other therapy and I find it disgusting and, ultimately, self-destructive. I think this is a logical extension of all of the people who see pyschiatrists and psychologists. They are told there is something wrong, they believe it, and, boom, the shrinks have a constant supply of business.

There is a saying: Follow the money. When you see something that doesn't make a whole bunch of sense, find out who is profiting and that person (or group) is the likely source of the anomaly. Well, with regard to ADHD, ADD and all of the other things we see today, you don't have to follow very far. The drug companies and the specialists who prescribe the drugs are making tons of money off of our children and, what's worse than just bilking us of some money, they are harming the kids and making them think that there's something wrong with them.

Sorry, all, end rant.

"take a village" to raise a child I think that's the problem and not the money. Modernization has brought some new problems. The disintegration of the village and some other nasty aspects, as Graffiti (but some Graffiti are dam good).

So instead the village, that traditionally had a great part in raising a child, there's now a vacuum. At least I can't see the shaping of a new structure that is able to replace the old, yet. But at the same time, expectations and demands have gone up. Patience has become a rare virtue and there's a tendency for wanting the quick fix.

So, kids just get pumped full of drugs instead of raised. And I think Rallymama is right. There's a lot of pressure coming from schools and authorities, who want "results". Meaning a problematic child obidient as soon as possible. And I bet the most part of Ritalin is used in the big cities, which are swamped with problems.

And of course, there's an industry willing to lend schools, parents and authorities a helping hand and a quick fix for a little bit of money.

I don't have ADHD but ADD and let me tell you it was a pain getting through grade school, highschool and college. Especially the first two. My parents thought I was simply a below average student and really let me have it. Some ways a bit too harsh in fact.

I always got extremely bored too quickly at work and school. I never felt as if I was motivated or challenged you know? It's not until the late 90s I decided to speak to a shrink about general issues. She had me participate in a test and then everything made sense. Why I need to have the tv or radio on when i'm online, reading or working. Why I always get bored too quickly and why sometimes I do 2, 3 things at once.

Of course the parents weren't too supportive. Hell, they refused to acknowledge it. No parents want to admit their child has a problem.

ADD has been a big problem in my life. I've always bounced from job to job searching for something to keep me from getting bored. you know, searching for something that will keep me stimulated and challenge me.

School was a pain. Always got C's, 80s, Average etc etc. I wish the general populace were aware of AD/HD in the 1980s. Could've saved alot of heartache in many families.

So yes..I feel that AD/HD is very real.

Rally, those stories are probably apocryphical(sic) but let me tell you, speaking as a teacher, I totally feel for those teachers wanting their students controlled in some way. When they started mainstreaming kids with disabilities, tthey told teachers "you'll have oodles of support: aides, training, resource rooms; these kids will not make your jobs tougher or interfere with the education of the rest of your students." Well, then they pulled the plug on funding, and teachers were left doing a job that all experts agreed should take about 4 people -- all on their own (one person). With parenting getting worse and worse, we teachers put up with more and more. Contrary to popular belief, we are not here for the money or the summer "vacation", but we cannot do the job society wants from us without the society's support, so sometimes we snap and do things that a person who has never lasted a semester in a classroom might determine to be unfair, heavy-handed or arbitrary.

Teachers are heroes, Depaara, no doubt about it. And I completely agree that a good teacher is very likely to notice traits and behaviors in students that parents will either miss, ignore, or deny. My problem comes in when society at large thinks it can raise a child better that the parents can and allows some agency to say "The school says you need Ritalin, so here's your dose!" without giving the parents - or even a doctor, for cryin' out loud! - a final say.

I withdraw my duel challenge, now knowing what you're truly talking about.

I remember as a kid, if it was something interesting, like a video game, I could pay attention, but if it was something I didn't find interesting, like school, I was fidgety and kept bugging other kids, I realize that when I'm off the meds, a good way to describe it is that everything seems like a good idea. No, not so much that, but nothing really seems like a bad idea at the time. My parents weren't convinced either, so they did a test when I was quite young. They had three different things to try. One was regular medication, one was sugar in the shape of the meds, and one was half-strenght meds. We were given enough of each to last a week, and weren't told which week had which pills. I wasn't told anything, of course. Apparently, I had no change with the placebo, I was better behaved than normal with the half-strength, and my parents thought they had flipped a switch from crazy to good with the regualar. I've been taking pills for close to 14 years now, and it really has helped me. I don't know what effect it has on people without ADD/ADHD, but the hyper-focused zombies portrayed on TV aren't anything like me.

You know, there are people I don't like about this. They treat me like I have the intellect of a 4-year old, if not directly, I can see it in their eyes. I have something that is classified as a disability, I take Ritalin, so I must be stupid. I've never had much tolerance for that.

Heh, it's untrue that ADHD is imagined as a separate unit and in fact consisting of low IQ, short attention span, unwillingness to learn etc. My own brother shows similar symptoms, only on a lesser scale (still needing to see a psychologist from time to time) and he isn't a bad student. Unwillingness to learn? Not really. Only unwillingness to study, but probably below that of my own halved. IQ? No smaller than 130. Concentration problems? Well, just give him a game and try to elicit a basic short answer from him ;)

However, I do think that much of it is just uncontrolled aggression, aggression that is not dealt with, aggression that is not pointed out - and to some degree lack of compassion.

But of course there will always be kids and parents hiding behind ADHD label to give the kid a perk he's not deserving of and make his life easier as it's practiced most notably with dyslexia :rolleyes:

Ok, so it's rare. Really rare. So rare in fact that only around 50% of the people in this thread claim to know one, or be one. I won't go any further in that, accuse me of flaming if you will.

I actually thought I had ADHD when I was a kid. But granted that I was merely over-energetic, certainly not someone suffering from a very real disorder. I've never known one or heard of one with the said problem.

I think it exists. ADHD iirc is partly explained by a theory that these people are under-stimulated. They get bored easily. It is thought that they are hyperactive to get the additional stimulus they need.

The stimulus can be purely optical even: A test has found that ADHD kids work more concentrated when writing on coloured paper - of course, the colour has to be changed regularly to prevent the effect to wear off. That also is meant to explain why ritalin, a stimulating amphetamine, works to settle them down. That, in comparison to the paper, has rised concerns about generous medication of "ADHD suspects" with ritalin - why give them drugs when something less grave might work too?

ADHD iirc is situation dependent. ADHD kids that can't hold still in school may be totally calm and conentrated in other situations. While maybe beeing unable to follow the path of a school-lesson they can be easily able to spend hours at the comp, playing a game - calm and concentrated.

This, of course, makes it different to fix. You have to find the under-stimulating situation to find the symptoms. That is one of the reasons why some people tend to say it is imagined. They make their tests in an artificial lab environment, in a new and interesting environment - not really a surprise that the probant is concentrated then - if under-stimulation is the clue.

Personally I find the under-stimulation theory striking. But as I don't know much about psychology that's not much worth :shake:

Heh, Foradasthar, I understand you - I've nearly always hated to sit there until break. And hell, really disliked most kinds of classes. But I didn't claim ADHD :shake:

I'm sorry, but I don't think that boredom can be classified as an illness or a disease. I've been bored plenty. So what? Deal with it.

This is, of course, not to say there isn't ADHD. If, as mentioned before, you simply "can't" concentrate, then you have a medical problem. But lack of motivation is not a medical problem, it's a character problem. Trying to solve that with drugs is foolish, IMHO. Ragusa's post interested me; if ADHD is defined as under-stimulation rather than inability to focus, then I can't understand using invasive treatments over non-invasive ones. At least not without a cynical outlook (drugs make people money and save a great deal of effort on those involved in the child's life).

I beleive that it is a combination of diet (all the chemicals and additives today!) and social environment. Some people can't operate in more than one on one situations, need extra attention or simply hate the environemnt they are in.

I do disagree with some of the medication used. Modified heroine is hardly a good thing for kids to take. (This is how I had it explained to me, so don't sue me.)

I was in a class with a kid diagnosed as having it, but I reckon part of it was his crappy teacher and boring schoolwork. There were other troublesome kids too that were do so diagnosed. Hmmmm.

None of my 4 kids has it. Perhaps I'm lucky? I am fairly sure that diet and/or allergies play a large part.

it probably exists. but im figuring it's being diagnosed way more than it should be. And even if the person does have it, it's probably due to an environmental/cultural factor instead of something biological.

I bet if you looked at how many kids in North America were diagnosed with ADHD per capita vs. any non-North American place, the numbers would be entirely different.

I have a suspicion that my brother has it. He's a total $£^$*&. :mad: He thinks it's funny to make my 20 month old son cry by shouting at him. He likes to scream and shout for no apparent reason, and is always doing stupid things just to get attention.

edit: He's 17 BTW. So it's either that or schizophrenia.

Hey Shell...have you tried kicking his ass? That might help. ;) At the very least, YOU'LL feel better!

Seriously though, it might be that. How are his grades? Can he do any one activity (playing video games, reading, etc.) that require any kind of concentration for 30 minutes at a time or longer? Less? If longer, he's probably just looking for attention or maybe he has a mild form of ADHD. But if he seriously can't sit still and focus for more than a few minutes, it may be worth looking into if you can.

Here's my ADHD story...

When my younger brother was very young (in first grade, I believe) his doctor diagnosed him with ADHD. He was doing fairly poorly in school, having a hard time concentrating, and was overly (almost uncontrollably) energetic. The end result was that he was put on Ritalin for a time. He hated it, my parents hated it, even his teacher said that it changed his personality too much. He went from being Aaron to being a fairly listless version of Aaron. When they finally realized that anyone with ADHD couldn't possibly sit and play video games for as long as he did... they took him off of it,and just regulated him a little more. Amazing that all he needed was a little more parental control. And that a doctor would diagnose ADHD before suggesting a little more parental control.

I believe it exists, but not everyone who is classified having it does really have it. They just want it to get some slack in school or something. My friend has ADD, its not the same as ADHD, but some days when your with him you can really tell. Like he will have trouble sitting still, paying attention in class, taking long tests and etc.