View Full Version : Your Computer is a Racist! (when racial sensitivity goes too far)
Death Rabbit Wed, 26th Nov '03, 7:25pm http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/11/26/master.term.reut/index.html
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Los Angeles officials have asked that manufacturers, suppliers and contractors stop using the terms "master" and "slave" on computer equipment, saying such terms are unacceptable and offensive.
The request -- which has some suppliers furious and others busy re-labeling components -- came after an unidentified worker spotted a videotape machine carrying devices labeled "master" and "slave" and filed a discrimination complaint with the county's Office of Affirmative Action Compliance.
In the computer industry, "master" and "slave" are used to refer to primary and secondary hard disk drives. The terms are also used in other industries.
"Based on the cultural diversity and sensitivity of Los Angeles County, this is not an acceptable identification label," Joe Sandoval, division manager of purchasing and contract services, said in a memo sent to County vendors. Now I'm all for equality and racial harmony. I have a very diverse group of friends and am engaged to a girl of another race. But I'm so tired of crap like this I could scream. Racial sensitivity today is IMO a ludicrous concept, at least here in America. It's not as if instead of "slave and master," which is realistic nomenclature that's been in place for years, our computer drives were labeled "Niggah and Tha Man." Come on!!!!! :toofar:
Another example: As much as I hate to side with anything Rush Limbaugh says or does (because he's an ass), I still think it was ridiculous how everyone made such a big deal about his recent comment that got him in so much trouble. For those who don't know, Rush Limbaugh is a very popular, extremely right-wing radio talk show host. He was hired as a color commentator (ooops...I meant "non-offensive grayscale commentator") on an ESPN sports show, where he commented that a certain black quarterback was overrated because he's black and because "the media" wanted eagerly to see that a black quarterback succeeds. Which may or may not be true - but you don't see anyone getting all up in arms when white sports figures are referred to as "The Great White Hope" or other cliches. Of course, a national controversy ensued.
A Few Questions for the Congregation.
1. Do you think political correctness is out of control, just fine or is still very lacking? (please state why)
2. For non US residents, how is racial sensitivity treated where you're from, if at all?
3. Do you feel there is an obvious, if not insulting, double standard?
I also offer this up as a general discussion topic on political correctness, affirmative action, racial quotas, etc.
[ November 26, 2003, 20:13: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]
Hacken Slash Wed, 26th Nov '03, 7:41pm Yes, DR, Political Correctness is out of control in America. What is interesting to me is unless a bigoted or misperceived notion is applied upon hearing, the words "master" and "slave" have no racial connotations at all...merely an expression of status. Any racial slur exists in the mind of the offended and is not inherent in the words.
I'll probably have more to say on this later, but I'm at work...just wanted to get my two cents in.
Blackthorne TA Wed, 26th Nov '03, 7:55pm Political correctness is way, way out of control. People around here these days seem so eager to be offended that it has become ludicrous. The example you present above illustrates this well.
To say that "master" and "slave" when referring to the relationship between two IDE devices is offensive is ridiculous. You might as well become offended that the relationship itself exists, and that the master device is wrongfully imposing its will on the slave device. Free the slave IDE devices! Down with the master IDE devices!
Ludicrous.
I am however offended by your use of the phrase "color commentator" in your above post and I will be forced to take legal action against you if you do not change it to something more appropriate to these boards in the near future. ;)
joacqin Wed, 26th Nov '03, 8:10pm Political correctness in speech and writing is way out of hand but sadly that doesnt mean that people are politically correct in their minds.
For instance here in Sweden it is taboo to say anything negative about any foreigner who has come here from outside of western Europe, offically everyone loves them and nothing bad is ever said about them. However as soon as you scrape a little bit on the surface and talks to people privately you are shocked at how narrowminded, bigotted and even racist they are.
From my two visits to the US it seems to be the same way there between whites and blacks, on the surface it is taboo but when you get underneath it just a little bit way too many people still spout quite offensive prejudices. And that is between people brought up in the same culture.
I am constantly shocked at how much stock people put in race in this day and age, how many inter-racial relationships do we see in the movies? Very very few and those we see are then depicted as something extreme and special, probably the base for the entire movie and that are movies made in very liberal Hollywood.
Main point: Official political correctness is out of control but *real* political correctness is still a rather rare thing.
dmc Wed, 26th Nov '03, 8:55pm 1. Do you think political correctness is out of control, just fine or is still very lacking? (please state why) Ostensible political correctness is absurd and way out of hand. I highly recommend a book called the Ten Things You Cannot Say in America. It's written by a guy named Larry Elder who happens to be a black Libertarian/Republican radio guy who expects people to work hard and take responsibility for their actions. He has some interesting things to say.
I just don't believe that calling someone who is black an "African-American" or "Person of Color" makes any sense. I also don't believe that the master/slave thing was even taken seriously, but, then again, I live here. I remember in a trial one of my partners was handling, the main witness for a company referred to one of the female clerks as a "girl" on the stand. The witness was in his 70's and certainly meant nothing by it, that was the way female clerks in his company were referred to just like the male counterparts were "guys."
The judge, a woman, stopped the trial and spent five minutes berating the witness on his lack of sensitivity, etc., completely distracting the jury, putting everyone off, etc. Had the case not settled, you'd better bet that there would have been a mistrial granted.
2. For non US residents, how is racial sensitivity treated where you're from, if at all? N/A
3. Do you feel there is an obvious, if not insulting, double standard? Of course. Here in the states, you will find that blacks are "allowed" to state far more racist things than whites and get away with it. (Again, read the book.)
This political correctness is a fact of life. I guess that the theory is that if people are not influenced not to say bigoted things they will gradually lose their bigoted thoughts. It's a form of thought police. Winston Smith, where are you?
Taluntain Wed, 26th Nov '03, 9:07pm Like BTA said, ridiculous. Reminds me of the reasons why people keep filing reports to have Huckleberry Finn banned in the US; they deem it racist because all black people there are referred to as niggers. Setting aside the fact that this was the norm at the time and in the setting the story takes place in, such narrow-minded view completely ignores the fact that the book is definitely (from my perspective) anti-slavery, and that by trying to cover up the unpleasant history you're not doing anyone any favours for the future. If anything, the book should be required reading for all black kids, so they can acquire some better understanding of what the position of the black people was a relatively short time ago, and how much progress there can be seen today as far as that is concerned.
Anyway, this is slightly off-topic, but I believe it's relevant since it's pretty parallel to the intended banning of the master/slave terms. Crap like that gives political correctness the label of extremism and only forces people to think of if negatively, which is helping no one but the people who want to make a name for themselves by getting something banned.
What's next? Getting Merriam-Webster to remove the word "slave" and everything related from the dictionaries altogether, so that that unpleasant bit of the US history would not traumatize anyone who chanced upon it in a dictionary? This whole thing is idiotic on so many levels I could write a book about it.
Beren Wed, 26th Nov '03, 9:19pm As somebody who's half native-american, I'm certainly willing to say that political correctness has its place. But it must be within reason.
In Canada, there's always a big debate about how Canada's natives are to be addressed correctly. The going term is Aboriginal, with indigenous a close second. However, Indian now tends to be considered offensive. Its often taboo to make the reference in public.
But c'mon. I grew up with my friends and myself always referring to each other as Indians. I wasn't offended by it then, and I'm still not now.
However, preceding the word Indian with a certain profanity is extremely offensive. In that kind of context, political correctness definitely has a valid place. But again, within reason.
Splunge Wed, 26th Nov '03, 9:22pm Not much to add, other than to say that I agree with what’s been said above. It’s the same in Canada. Further to Jocquin’s comments, it seems like some people have the mistaken attitude that, if we’re politically correct, the problem of racism goes away, or as dmc said, the attitudes fade. To an extent, I agree it helps, but enough is enough. There's more to prejudice than just words.
And BTA – what’s up with your name? Blackthorne??! You should be ashamed.
[Tehehe. You're right! How could I be so insensitive?! - BTA :) ]
[ November 26, 2003, 22:17: Message edited by: Blackthorne TA ]
Chris Williams Wed, 26th Nov '03, 10:17pm @Beren
Surely the correct term is "Canadian". ;)
@Death Rabbit
Don't get yourself too worked up. It wouldn't surprise me if the whole affair amounts to nothing. Microsoft use the term "master-slave" to refer to their clustering configuration and I'm certain that they're EXTREMELY careful to ensure that their use of language doesn't cause offence. After all, the term "master-slave" used in a technical sense refers no more to mastery and slavery than "kicking the bucket" refers to kicking buckets.
I think we get too hung up on correct terminology while ignoring the real issue, which is inequality of opportunity between people of different races. In the UK, the most disadvantaged communities are the Afro-Caribbeans and Bangladeshis. This is so for a number of reasons, including negative attitudes held by some white people. Use of language is important, however, when a commonly used term is an insult or a putdown, such as "Paki", "wog" or "half-caste". It's much worse when the insult is an "approved" term, as was the case with "half-caste", used to refer to persons of mixed race. Insulting people whenever you refer to them does nothing to raise them in your estimation and only serves to reinforce prejudices and negative stereotypes.
The poor state of racial relations in the UK were made apparent twenty years ago when we had major race riots. Things have improved in the UK since then but it would be stupid of me to say that things are hunky dory. The inequality between the races is painfully apparent when you go to London. Almost all menial jobs, be they toilet attendants or servers in fast food restaurants, are performed by black people. As an aside, please note that I am not saying that all black people do menial work, merely that a disproportionate number of menial workers are black.
Death Rabbit Wed, 26th Nov '03, 10:45pm @ CW
Believe me, I'm not worked up over this alone. The alarming thing is the trend. People reading unintended offense into everyday life, suing somebody over it, and winning. I would laugh my ass off about the case I've mentioned above were it not for my personal experience telling me this type of action is becoming increasingly common. It wouldn't be nearly as frustrating if the courts on our side of the pond didn't take cases like this so seriously.
People have sued to try to get the name of the Cleveland Indians, Washington Reskins, Kansas City Chiefs and a few other professional sports teams name's changed because they're being "insensitive to native americans." Please.
I have a good friend (an Asian) who moved to Washington DC last year to work for the federal government as a computer programmer. A coworker of his, who thought she deserved to be in the position he was hired for and was bitter that she was never offered a shot at it, proceded to make his life there a living hell. She actually dug up confidential information on him to try and get him fired, despite the fact that she was a lazy, back-biting slug who was never considered for the position. She spread rumors about him, badmouthed him to her superiors, every possible opportunity to make him look bad - behind his back, of course. My friend knew about all this and did nothing, despite the fact that he could've gotten her fired if he wanted to. He simply felt the whole situation was beneath him.
After months of this, his superiors found out what was going on, yet did nothing about it. It took my friend leaving the division - because of her - to even get the woman written up. Why was she allowed to get away with murder? From his boss, who couldn't stand her either: "Because she's black, and because she's a woman. If she sues us for discrimination, she'll win." Apparantly, she'd threatened to sue other times as well. According to him, in Washington especially, women like her are a tort lawyer's wet dream. And she knows it.
Just one of many examples where political correctness and so-called standards of racial equality help exactly the wrong people in exactly the wrong way. I may be wrong, but I feel these policies serve little more than to score political points for Politicians with minorities, and divide us far more than unite us. Same thing goes for Affirmative Action, another laughable policy that needs revision, if not eradication.
The Soul Forever Seeking Thu, 27th Nov '03, 12:09am The trend of people calling everything that hinders black people even slightly racism has led to feelings of anti-racism. White people get nervous around black people that anything they say may be taken out of context and called racism.
There's an interesting statement I heard recently.
If you see a group of black kids in loose jeans coming towards you, and you cross the street to avoid walking through their group, then that's racist. If you see the same group of black kids coming towards you, and you don't cross the street because you don't want to look racist, then that's anti-racist.Oh, and going completely off-topic, congratulations on your engagement, Death Rabbit.
Hacken Slash Thu, 27th Nov '03, 12:19am Probably the greatest demonstrations of Political Un-correctness occur in the lyrics of Rap music, and no one is assualting the performers for the hate and violence they espouse toward whites and women.
Political Correctness is a joke and undermines the growth of true tolerance for all persons.
ejsmith Thu, 27th Nov '03, 12:51am I've always thought the smarter way wasn't to change the meaning of a word, or delete and supress all references to it. But to make it have absolutely no meaning. It still exists, and it still exists in it's original context.
It's just that everyone has other things to do, now...
Mystra's Chosen Thu, 27th Nov '03, 1:04am Someday I'm going to make a bumber sticker that says "Honk if you hate Euphemisms".
I know that political correstness is not exactly a euphemism, but it's pretty damn close. Those words have become taboo.
I know I'm not a racist. I laugh at racist jokes - be they black, hispanic, white, whatever. If they're not too bad, then, God help me, I laugh.
To (inadequately) quote George Carlin "I know I'm the White Devil, Blue Eyes, Honky motherf*cker, Cracker. Don't bother my ass."
To actually add something to this topic... One thing I don't understand is that why would this person think it's a bash on blacks? Every race has been enslaved at one time or another throughout history...
The Jews were slaves to the Egyptians
Arawak Indians were slaves to the Spanish
Blacks were slaves to the white
Whites were slaves to the whites (though treated better than the blacks)
Asians made slaves out of their own peoples
Same with the Incas and Aztecs
So I don't see why this man took offense personally.
I do, however, think that political correctness is necessary. I think that Chairman should be Chairperson. I don't think that it should be conperson or personhole cover.
Abomination Thu, 27th Nov '03, 3:53am 2. For non US residents, how is racial sensitivity treated where you're from, if at all?Aaah! Welcome to New Zealand my friend. New Zealand has put out a claim to be the most accepting, embracing multi-cultural society. Indeed there is little racial prejudice from the citizens of this country, we are accepting of any immigrant and we enjoy the skills they have to offer that are unique to their culture.
Time for a history lesson! Don't worry it's quite interesting.
Maori were the 'natives' of New Zealand (however that has been debated, some believe that the Maori arrived in New Zealand and killed off the local inhabitants a few hundred years before Europens discovered the country) who were a warrior race. In 1840AD the 'Treaty of Waitangi' was signed by a majority of the Maori chiefs in New Zealand and the British Government. However there were two versions of the treaty for either language and obviously the British signed the English treaty and the Maori signed the Maori (langauge) treaty.
The differences were rather extreme. The Maori treaty promised Maori the protection of their lands, fisheries, 'treasures' (i.e. anything they held dear to them) and persons. It granted them British citizenship and promised them protection from other countries (e.g. France and America who during this stage were interested in explioting New Zealands resources - mostly our whales and seals). They would recieve all of this in exchange for the governing of New Zealand. In other words the British Government would call New Zealand it's own country, protect it if it were invaded or threatened and would keep British Immigrants under control and punish them for crimes against Maori. It did not mean the British Government could force Maori to do anything.
The British version of the treaty promised Maori protection of their lands, fisheries and their people. It made all Maori British subjects and promised to protect them from overseas aggressors. The Maori would recieve this in exchange for British Soverignty of New Zealand (i.e. complete control since Maori were now 'subjects' of the British Crown and not 'citizens').
Needless to say the British acted on their version of the treaty. The New Zealand Wars began a few years later that resulted in the confiscation of land from Maori and the deaths of British and Maori alike. Take note this was 'not' a slaughter. The Maori were a warrior race well equipped to fighting in their home terrain and they built simple yet very effective fortifications that protected their warriors from both shot and cannon and allowed them to return fire with impunity. In most of the battles more British were killed than Maori even though most of the time British forces outnumbered Maori ten to one.
For the past 20 years the governement has realised its crimes against the Maori people and has decided to uphold the Maori version of the treaty. The Waitangi Tribunal was set up to administer complaints and applications for land reclaim and compensation for land that was confiscated by the British Government in years after 1840. Now Maori have been reclaiming their land through this Tribunal and have been enjoying compensation for this. There is no racisim here. Not 'all' Maori can reclaim land. They must have proof they are part of a tribe that has suffered from land confiscations.
Sadly other 'benefits' have been given to Maori that are indeed racist. Maori get precedence and require lower grades than other students when it comes to University applications and Maori gain first year courses free of charge whether they are from a tribe that signed a treaty or not. Another sad bit of racisim is that there are different unemployment benefits for Maori and they recieve 'more' than another citizen simply because they are Maori. Again this advantage applies to Maori who are from tribes that did not sign the treaty. Whats more both of these advantages are 'not' promised in the treaty.
On top of this there are 'awards' for excellence within New Zealand, albeit economic achievement of a company or scholarship. These awards apply to the entire country, yet on top of that there are 'Maori Awards' that apply only to Maori.
Make a negative comment about Maori in the public eye and you'll have protestors outside your door. Make a negative comment about Pakeha (New Zealand citizens who are from Britain) and nothing will happen. As Billy Connolly said "The only group you can insult these days are white, hetrosexual males." Insult any other group you'll get protestors on your front lawn demanding your blood as compensation.
Khazraj Thu, 27th Nov '03, 8:09am PC seems to have had more of a "good time" in relation to either religious or sexual references in Australia.
These days it seems to be more common to refer to Australia's original inhabitants as indigenous Australians rather than aborigines, but that has only been around for a fews years. I think it is because there have been many abusive words invented that came from the word "aboriginal". Hard to say.
PC doesn't seem to have gone so overboard here as you have described, but them most Australians are fairly tolerant of others, and if we consider that a quarter of the population has a non Anglo-white background then...
Arabwel Thu, 27th Nov '03, 11:31am Political correctness s complete and utter crap. it's mere frosting to keep up the appearances.
I remember, when I was on first grade, we had the alphabet with pictures on the class walls. One of them was literally "N is for nigger"... It was there because hey, it's tradition, and our books had the same example. (I haven't been to my old school in years... witrh my experience about that place the same picture could still be there...)
A few years back, an officer was chastisized for having used the word "nigger" while descirbing a suspect. It made a few newspapers, but it was more or less forgotten.
Now? TO use that word in any "official" capacity would cause more or less an uproar. and yet, when I got my wallet lifted, I could hear the officers muttering amongst themselves about "niggers"... ebven when they were more "politically correct" when talking with me about the theft.
It's all frosting... I aam incoherent, I know.
Chris Williams Thu, 27th Nov '03, 1:09pm @Arabwel
A time when you could have "N is for nigger" in an exercise book was a much worse time. This is what I was going on about when I wrote about everyday terms of reference being insults. As for police officers referring to "niggers", I don't want such people in my police force. I want them out and what's more I want them drawing dole not pensions.
Political correctness is complete and utter crap. it's mere frosting to keep up the appearances. If you mean to imply that beneath my correct demeanour I'm a seething racist, you and I have issues.
Arabwel Thu, 27th Nov '03, 2:01pm What I mean about "frosting" is that he whole PC thing in the entire "let's make sure no one gets offended" thing is nothing more than a way of keeping up appearances, changing the appearance instead of attitude. Whren terms that are so very well thought-put in their inoffessiveness that they go beyond linquistics and common sense, their widespread use is not likely to commence. If someone who is utterly racist says "I believe that people of color should be all eliminated" instead of "I think all niggers should be shot" does that change his attitude one bit?
In Finland, we have a saying: "Moni kakku päätä kaunis, mutta silkkoa sisältä" and it translates roughly to "Many cakes are pretty on the outside but rotten inside".
I used the example of the pictures on classroom walls to demonstrate that convention may very well override common sense and (Gah, I am having trouble expressing myself in English...) gah, I don't have the word for it. It has been less than ten years since I went to that school, and that picture was there. Knowing the fact that the people in my home village are small-minded and bigoted, and the way they act, I would not be surprised if that picture is still there, sitting neatly in sight of all the little pre-schoolers and first-graders. I suppose it'll sit there for the nextr ten years as well, because it's a "part of a set" and "We know it isn't right, but it's traditional!"
*sigh*
GIving things new and fancy names does not make them different. I do not advocate the use of racial -or any other- slurs, but going overboard with appearance instead of attitide so that it becomes... grotesque in the way it tries to be more than it is. Or words to that effect anyway.
Foradasthar Thu, 27th Nov '03, 4:59pm Yeah. A nigger is a nigger. An indian is an indian. A white man is a white man. An asian is asian. And a kurd is a kurd. All those describe the looks of a person in a completely legitimate manner. There's nothing wrong with any of those terms. What's wrong, is with the people trying to change those terms in a pathetic attempt to remove the problem. Still, this is a natural phenomenon. Action, reaction, and fusion or synthesis or whatever it was that went in as third (yeah, have a good laugh, I completely forgot the word). Still, things will be confused like this for a while, until people discover just how rediculous this all is and will find a balance.
I seem to remember the N for Nigger example myself as well, in Finnish of course. There even was a picture with a small smiling nigger boy there. It's actually true that people have trouble these days just trying to speak of each other by giving description on races or size. Stating facts in a non-offensive manner is not wrong afterall.
dmc Thu, 27th Nov '03, 8:21pm Hate to break it to those of you with the "N is for nigger" background, but that is probably the single most racially charged epithet that can be used in America. It conjures up images of a bunch of guys in white sheets running around lynching black people for sport. That being said, the really bizarre part of this is that black people here will often call each other "nigger" with no problem. I play pick-up basketball at least once a week at the gym at UCLA, where one would suppose that I would come into contact with, generally, fairly well-educated people no matter their background, etc. The black guys often call each other nigger on the court. If I said that, you'd probably have to take me out on a stretcher. Where's the political correctness?
Nobleman Thu, 27th Nov '03, 10:22pm I suggest to rename it to master and apprentice.
promotes cooperation instead of separation.
The key to profit from racial sensitivity.
Chris' Latest post points this out.
2nd
You cannot create separation to yourself.
Hence Afro-americans have no dignifying loss with calling themselves niggers.
The words white use to separate themselves from black, will naturally *become* words that unite the black.
So Nigger has *become* a racist word when used by white. Beeing isolated up between Sweeden and Russia does not change that fact. Why? Ask a "nigger" if he likes to hear any white man call him that however friendly it was intended... Some words do not apply to normal linguistic reasoning because time and history has loaded them. Dmc points that out pretty well.
[ November 27, 2003, 23:22: Message edited by: Nobleman ]
chevalier Thu, 27th Nov '03, 11:21pm Yes, PCness is way out of control. Smartasses, I have news for you: black is not white, no matter what they tell you at your gatherings. Nor is yellow. All is one species, sure, because all can breed and breed further with one another. So what's the deal?
I'll tell you what the deal is, actually. Cause I'm so wise. So I'll tell you. :holy: The deal is that people like money, power, prestige, control, comfort, luxury - you name it. Some will work, but some will take shortcuts. Some, such as yours truly, will show some genuine creativity in the thinking up of thousand shortcuts, but some will have brains of a cow and will use their whatever minority status to further themselves at cheapest possible cost. Black says X. White says ~X. So white is a racist. White says X. Black says ~X. So black's a freedom fighter.
However, those aren't the most disgusting, far from it. The scum are those who wind up political correctness cynically to achieve their goals and use the whole PCness sensitivity thing to push through even though they're themselves standard to boredom level.
And there are those naive children who think PCness is the pinnacle of human achievement and tolerance is their religion (there's no tolerance for those who disagree with them - just a minute exception), while "everything is morally good except morality" is their creed. Such a waste of energy that could have been used for getting a normal, honest life.
And there are slaves. Poor weak-willed people turned into thralls by PCness propaganda. Every second of their life is spent looking around for someone they could possibly avoid offending, and apologising in advance or in case. Their common sense has been surgically removed.
Get the minors out of the room while I'm preparing to utter the Ultimate Blasphemy:
I'm a white European heterosexual Christian male, and a Roman Catholic at that, and I'm happy with it :)
BTW, I have a solution for everyone who has problems with Master & Slave drives:
Mark both your disks as Master! :lol: :shake: :lol: :grin:
Taluntain Thu, 27th Nov '03, 11:25pm Let's get back on the subject of computers, shall we? Obviously some people in here aren't familiar with just how much meaning the word "nigger" carries in the US, so I don't think they should be discussing it here either (unless they really want to flaunt their ignorance). I used my example to illustrate a point, but Arabwel's and Foradasthar's posts are... way off, and distracting from what the topic of discussion is, to say the least. Discussing how the word is used in non-English speaking countries is a completely separate issue.
Anyway, I'm really wondering what the acceptable terms in this case would be for LA. Master/subject? The word subject would have an identical meaning to slave, but would anyone be offended by this one as well? I mean, we're talking about computer components here. How on earth do you determine what is offensive and what isn't? What is the point of applying human PC standards to non-sentient computer parts at all? This is simply beyond me. Maybe they'll require that from now on all slave drives have a position-awareness chip installed, so they can bask in their new-found politically correct label.
The more I think about it, the more absurd this thing seems. I wonder if it's actually real, or another "Bambi-shooting".
chevalier Fri, 28th Nov '03, 12:19am I would hate any change they would make in this. I still say 'directory' for I hate the 'folder' thing. It's not right to dabble with sanctities ;)
Nobleman Fri, 28th Nov '03, 12:49am Yeah Tal, If master is still not accepted going with subject, then how about:
Controller and subject?
I would have gone on about Master and padawan learner but this thread has had enough sidetrecks already :1eye:
rastilin Fri, 28th Nov '03, 1:46am The fact that anyone would get annoyed on behalf of an inanimate piece of iron is almost too dumb to be concievable. It smells like some bad prank, I can just image the guy screaming "fooled ya" on national television.
The very idea of Political Correctness goes against the constitutional right to free speech, therefore PC is unconstitutional. Somehow that fact seems to have got lost on the long and difficult path to "freedom". A word is only what you make of it, at it's basic point a word is a collection of letters or sounds. Any meaning that you attach to it comes from your own mind.
Chandos the Red Fri, 28th Nov '03, 5:54am The very idea of Political Correctness goes against the constitutional right to free speech, therefore PC is unconstitutional. Absolutely, and I could not agree more. It seems that more and more most everyone has to watch his/her words and actions around everyone else, for fear of offending someone. Words have to be chosen with such care that it borders on censorship. What started out with good intentions and as a way to increase freedom for some has diminshed the freedom of almost all society as a whole. Absurd, but it's true.
Register Fri, 28th Nov '03, 10:17am If you removed the politial correctness people would write whatever **** in the newspapers, just to sell copies.
Imagine this topic 30 years in the future;
"George Bush III have an affair with his second cousin's dog's mate" when George Bush III is dead since 20 years ago.
BTW, no offence to anyone backing up GWIII, I just used a well-known example.
Taluntain Fri, 28th Nov '03, 2:28pm People are still free to write about whatever they want; PC does not equal press/book censoring (though it does affect self-censoring, which can lead to some changes in writing style). It's not a matter of what you can write or not, since anything can be written about (made up or true). The only issue is choosing the proper medium/publication for it.
Mithrantir Fri, 28th Nov '03, 3:31pm I will say only that this whole issue is pathetic and furthermore a rhetor in my country once said about an issue about language.
There are not abusing Languages, there are only abusive people.
So instead of trying to change the enviroment lets start changing ourselves.
BTW from now on i will whip that PC of mine because i am the master here not my HDD. :p
Trydan Fri, 28th Nov '03, 5:16pm Returning to the location of the original post, does anyone realise what the surname of the Californian governor really means?
Foradasthar Fri, 28th Nov '03, 6:39pm US is not the entire world. Though it might be big and influential enough to be mistaken for it. My point is that the problem in US is a local one. If we're talking about the white vs black issue in general, then every other part of the world has an equal say in the matter. One of the southpark episodes had a good story about this. When adults thought it a horrible thing that the children didn't care about what was wrong with the picture of 5 white guys standing around a 6:th hanged-to-death man, who was black. In the end they understood the children didn't care because to them it was all the same if it was a black man or a white man. Facts are facts of course, and although that idea is correct, one fact is that it's got no place in a world still as bitter as this one.
Back to the topic though, there is an old synonym for the Master and Slave that exists and is used actively already with computers and electronics. That's Primary and Secondary. While there could be miss-interpretations with these, they certainly pass better than most other ideas. If someone starts a debate over wether Primary and Secondary are racistic or not (afterall, the secondary is referred to as "less important" and it's bad for such a word to exist), you could then come up with "TPTHTMIT" (The Part That Handles The More Important Tasks) and "TPTHTLITTTPTHMITBIIENLIBIFPE" (The Part That Handles The Less Important Tasks Than 'The Part That Handles The More Important Tasks' But Is In Essence No Less Important But In Fact Perfectly Equal). If someone would feel offended after that, I think it's time someone issued a small display of violence and improved human race a bit.
Nightgor Wed, 3rd Dec '03, 12:32pm When I first realized how popular the term "political correctness" was becoming I was shocked. This term is reminiscent of communist Russia, nazi Germany, The imperial era of Great Britain and so on and so on.
Tyranny always tells you to shut up and behave yourself even while it is crushing you under its iron heel. Our society is based upon the principal of Individual Sovereignty which allows us the freedom to think, behave, or express ourselves publicly in whatever way we wish to as long as it does not violate the laws society has established. When we begin creating avenues in the law that allows everyone who is offended by something to take legal action we lose our ability to maintain a free society.
This is most true when it comes to racial prejudice. Unfortunately the bigots are providing quite a bit of fuel to add to the fire. White America has killed, beat up, ridiculed, humiliated, confined, stolen from, tortured, and unjustly labeled anyone that has not met the criteria for what passes as "superior". On the other hand, a bully only has power when others allow it. This does not mean that I agree with the bully, just that there is always a way to fight back and not necessarily using violence.
The best lesson I know of is from my own background. I am Irish American and have a good understanding of Irish history. The Irish themselves were treated little better than the African slaves at the time they began showing up on American soil. Instead of just laying down giving up they took what they could get and built a foundation of grudging acceptance. The Irish used the racial slurs used against them and made them their own. Terms such as "patty wagon" and "luck of the Irish" were originally meant to ridicule. Even today the Irish us the term "luck of the Irish" to define themselves culturally rather than feel offended by the narrow-minded thinking of a bunch of idiots.
Bombur Fri, 5th Dec '03, 8:42pm How about "Drive 1" and "Drive A." Oops, that's racist too, isn't it? After all, "separate but equal" was the mantra of segregation...
Look, there is real racism in the world. And there is also unjustified hypersensitivity with regards to racism. We ought to slap idiots who files suits over terminology like "master" and "slave" (for goodness sake, it's not like "master" is written in white and "slave" is written in black!). Besides clogging up the courts and costing taxpayers money over *nothing,* they create an attitude in others that tends to dismiss all accusations of racism. Sort of like the old fable of the boy who cried wolf. If we want real racism to be addressed and corrected, we need to stop crying "racism!" where it's obvious that none exists. I'm not surprised that some moron found the terms offensive, but I am a bit taken aback that so many others backed him in his attitude.
And it sounds like Joe Sandoval is brain dead. I'm from L.A. -- lived there for 30 years until I moved my white butt to Florida with my black wife and started cranking out mixed babies. For him to say that people in L.A. are generally offended by those terms when it comes to computer parts, he's got to be smoking way too much legal pain killer.
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