Probably most of you are aware of his story, but being from Arizona and seeing him play football for his college and pro career, it seems to strike particularly to home with me.

Tillman was a great college football player and a good pro football player, mostly because he worked harder and hit harder than guys much bigger than he. After a tenuous start, he established himselt as a pro, and was on the verge of enjoying some lucrative NFL contracts.

Then 9/11 came.

Tillman, out of love of his country, left his football career and enlisted in the US Army. Along with his brother (his enlistment often gets missed), he went through basic training with no special treatment, and Pat eventually completed training to be an Army Ranger.

Tillman was killed this week in Afganistan. A victim of a firefight with terrorists. One source I read stated that Tillman actually was killed trying to save an Afgani "policeman" who was pinned down under fire. They are both dead, and another soldier is wounded.

Tillman's sacrifice is no greater than any other man or woman who have lost their lives "in harms way"...but Pat we knew...we saw him signing autographs at the mall, helping with special olympics, letting his pony tail hang out under his helmet...

Here's to Pat.
Here's to every soldier who has fallen to help keep us safe.
Here's to our Administration...that we continue to have the courage and conviction to not spit on the graves of these fine men and women.

I'll drink to that. Pat Tillman is an example of a true soldier. He's joining the army to fight for what he believes in, not because he has to for financial reasons. Here's hoping the NFL does the right thing and dedicates next season to him.

Just wish one thing.... They should treat every soldier that dies over there just like they will Pat Tillman... He is a hero, but not one bit more than the other 700+ soldiers who have died to serve our country. But we don't get to see them honored like him. That is what pisses me off. If Bush visits his funeral I'll be sick.

And yet, that's what happens all the time. Something unfortunate happens to Joe Blow, and nobody pays much attention. But let that same thing happen to a celebrity, and it's huge.

Even though I have always been against the war in Iraq, I admire and respect the the men and women who have laid their lives on the line for their country.

Don't get me wrong - Tillman's death is unfortunate, but no more so than those of any of the other 700+ soldiers. Which is exactly what HS and Jschild said.

[ April 25, 2004, 17:12: Message edited by: Splunge ]

And yet, that's what happens all the time. Something unfortunate happens to Joe Blow, and nobody pays much attention. But let that same thing happen to a celebrity, and it's huge.
Agreed, Splunge. But I did want to add that I had no idea who Pat Tillman was until he was killed in action, as I watch zero sports and have no idea who any of those people are until they make it into the mainstream media for their antics (like Kobie Bryant). And for this he has my admiration, for both his courage and his sacrifice. Also, he managed to get into the mainstream media for something honorable instead of what most of his other sports compatriots get attention for outside of the typical nonsense that makes up celebrity press. But there are thousands of Americans making the ultimate sacrifice that should not be forgotten also; especially in a war of such dubious merit.

Also, he managed to get into the mainstream media for something honorable instead of what most of his other sports compatriots get attention for outside of the typical nonsense that makes up celebrity press. And this what I think might set this particular case apart from others.

Tillman put on hold (and ultimately sacrificed) a lucrative career to support a cause he believed in. At the risk of sounding like I'm downplaying the patriotism of the rest of the armed forces (I'm not), I don't think other soldiers put as much of their personal lives on the line as he did. (I am almost certain that won't come across as I intended it to, so if someone else who understands what it is that I'm trying to say can say it better, please do so before I get flambéed.)

@Splunge, Possibly saying that most people wouldn't give up lots of money for principle.
Most people would love to win the lottery or be rich and famous. Nearly everyone who gets there wants to be nowhere else. It takes a rare individual to give up everything like that. Joe normal can give up their life a little easier because they don't have a rich and famous lifestyle.

Not saying they have less to give up. That comes down to what you place worth in. I'm just saying principles and money often don't mix.

I can't take the credit for finding this link. (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=4585) Shralp had it up over at Gleefulextremist.com.

It's an amazing article to read, written almost 2 years ago in the aftermath of Tillman's enlistment. Interesting, given that we can now see the true depth of his sacrifice.

I play fantasy football every year and in 2001 I had Tillman on my fantasy team(was Sandbox league where you select individual defensive players as opposed to the nonsensical "team defenses"). I did not choose him really, it was one of those autodraft leagues where you rank the players and hope for the best. I ended up with Tillman and two other Cardinals(Pittman and someone else not named Boston) and at the time I was upset because it was generally considered bad to have ANY Arizona players in your lineup.

I probably would have never remembered that if it had not been for TIllman doing what he did in the wake of 9/11 and then meeting his unfortunate end this last week.

Agree with the war or not, what Tillman did was admirable.

[ April 26, 2004, 06:46: Message edited by: RuneQuester ]

I read somewhere that someone is calling for the NFL to require Tillman's number on the helmets next year.

If you want to honor Pat Tillman, don't put a small sticker of his number on the players helmets or uniforms, but a small sticker of the American Flag. That's what Tillman most likely would prefer.

I kind of doubt it. I think the last thing he would want is for someone to desecrate "Old Glory." Especially since he gave his life to insure that people have the right to.

Are you serious? Tillman was a very humble man, and didn't want to be treated differently than any other soldier. By placing the flag on the helmet we certainly wouldn't be desecrating "Old Glory". To the contrary, I think it would be a way of the NFL showing it's appreciation to all the soldiers risking thier lives overseas, even if everyone realizes it's really for Tillman that it's their. Since Tillman wanted to be treated like any other soldier, honoring him with the rest of the soldiers would most likely be what he would want. I don't know the guy personally or anything, so I can't say for sure, but I'm sure if they contact a family member they could probably state his wishes, and the smart money is to honor all the soldiers - not just him.

Tillman 'probably' killed by friendly fire (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5088646/) sais US Army.

I think McCain of Arizona put it right when he called Tillman "a most honourable man", however, if this is true it highlights the absurdity of Bush's wars.

At the risk of sounding like I'm downplaying the patriotism of the rest of the armed forces (I'm not), I don't think other soldiers put as much of their personal lives on the line as he did.Come again?!!!! In the first place, what's patriotism got to do with it, and in the second place, there's a h-ll of lot more to one's personal life than giving up a fat paycheck - like family. You want to talk about sacrifice, then let's talk about the mothers and fathers who aren't there for their children - and if they are making it back, it's minus body parts! Let's talk about the reservists whose businesses have gone under as a result of prolonged deployments and whose families face financial ruin!

Sorry Ragusa, I try to stay off or your threads because of our history, but I can't let this one go.

Friendly fire casualties are an inevitable result of war. If they are a demonstration of absurdity, they every war that has ever been has been absurd.

Please stop politicizing Tillman’s death in this manner as it is pathetic and beneath the logic and intelligence that you normally demonstrate.