Joan of Arc, the famous French heroine who supposedly had revelations from the Christian God that led her to nearly recapturing all of France from English occupation back in the fourteenth century. She was tried by a pro-English court that already had a decision before the first day of court, and was burnt at the stake. In 1920 she was canonized as a saint by the Roman Catholic Church. If you'd like to know more before responding, google searches are quick to yield results. A good page is here. (http://members.aol.com/hywwebsite/private/joanofarc.html)

The question is in the poll... the above is basically for your information.

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Poll Results: Joan of Arc (37 votes.)

What were her visions the product of? (Choose 1)
* God-given Revelations, the lot of them. - 19% (7)
* Nonsense, delusions of an insane girl. - 43% (16)
* Undecided, or other. - 38% (14)

You forgot "invented visions from a very clever girl driven by revenge for the death of her parents at the hands of the English, used to manipulate a nation into a brutal, yet successful, war."

That would've been my choice, though I lean toward the first one as well.

used to manipulate a nation into a brutal, yet successful, warThe nation was already at war. It's a historical fact, and it's also implied (it or long-term warring) in:

driven by revenge for the death of her parents at the hands of the EnglishNext, the war was started in the year 1337 by Edward III of, surprise!, England. The idea was that the main line of Capetingians ended in 1328 upon the death of Charles IV. Edward was the eldest son of that king's sister. His mother, Isabel, was the daughter of Philip the Fair and sister of his four sons each of whom was the king of France and died without issue.

The French elected Philip VI of de Valois branch of Capetingian dynasty. He was the dead king's cousin, but in male line and therefore a valid member of the dynasty.

Edward decided he couldn't miss such an opportunity and so he invaded France. It was in 1337, exactly 65 years before Joan of Arc was born.

If we are at it, Joan was born in 1402. The famous siege of Orlean took place in 1419. Mind you, it was the English army besieging the second most important city in France. Joan came to aid Jean Dunois, French commander of the city and bastard son of Louis Duke of Orleans, brother of the King of France, Charles VI. The siege was part of Henry V's campaign that started in, precisely, 1415. The war had been raging for four years when the events we're talking about occured.

To be honest I dont think anyone can truely make up their mind on this one. Your opinion will ultimately be decide by whether you believe in God or not (or whether you are English). I think she was a delusional scizophrenic, but I never lived through that time. All I'm going on is the material I have read and my opinion on God.

Some girl who had a few visions and decided it might be a good idea to claim they were God-given to actually give her visions credit.

But that's just my opinion.

Whether you are religious or not shouldnt really matter much in this issue. Why would god pick one side in a petty war between two christian nations?

The standards for beatification was not very high in the old days and the very fact that it took so long for the church to recognize Jeanne D'Arc should show you that they werent overly keen on it either, probably caving in to intense French pressure.

Of course the poor girl was delusional. I have met many people in my work who have had visions and who have even spoken directly to god. Heck, we even have one dude at work who have been trying to make peace between Bush/Osama/Saddam through his walkman for these last years.

Nonsense, delusions of a insane girl. I am a christian, but I believe that she was pretty insane and fanatic and just saw visions and thought that they were god-given visions. Anyone seen "Boondock Saints"? More examples can be given, like the old popes and other 'christian' kings and rulers.

Whether you are religious or not shouldnt really matter much in this issue.It does matter. If you don't believe in the existence of a deity, you can't believe in visions coming from that deity.

Why would god pick one side in a petty war between two christian nations?That's how atheists tend to see deities. However, the Christian God is not like those ancient deities. It's not like you pray and tithe so you can expect to be left alone with a blessing proportional to the amount of time and money spent. Neither is the Christian God a passive demiurge unconcerned by the fate of "petty" mortals.

Every hair on your head has been counted. There is no need to be afraid: you are worth more than many sparrows [Luke 12:6]

The Old Testament holds numerous accounts of God's interventions in human history, too. In the Catholic Church it is believed that God is active in the history of man.

the very fact that it took so long for the church to recognize Jeanne D'Arc should show you that they werent overly keen on it either, probably caving in to intense French pressure.Actually wrong. The main problem was that Joan of Arc was sentenced by a church tribunal. Beatification required condemnation of the tribunal's verdict as wrongful. The case was clear: the judges could not have been manipulated by any subtle intrigue, they knew exactly what they were doing and so if Joan's revelations had been a work of God, the tribunal's verdict was a work evil and, ultimately, Satan.

Long time had to pass before they admitted error. Well, Giordano Bruno's sentence has only been annulled recently by the current pope, for instance.

they werent overly keen on it either, probably caving in to intense French pressureThe Third Republic was secular to the extreme and quite anticlerical. The relations were far from friendly. France after WWI was in no condition to put pressure on the whole of the Catholic Church and had more urgent matters on its hands than a beatification. Plus, France was in no condition to antagonise the English, either.

You know, I was going to add to the end of my post above "I'm sure Chev will come along shortly to correct any historical inaccuracies regarding what I just said," but that would be like saying "when you touch water, you will be wet." Kinda goes without saying. :shake:

*sigh*

I have only a few things to say, concerning Joan.

1. French peasant girls ROCK!!!!!!!/1$34e

2. I don't care much for Paris. Or Parisians. The rest of the country is fairly decent people.

3. The Illumanti was a group of French men.

4. Had it been French women, from the country, I'd be sweating. It would no longer be a joke told at the dinner table and religious functions.

5. I'd hit it.