it has to be done (dont know if it has been already but alot of info has been posted on the site lately) so out with it guys

kerry or bush

non americans are not allowed to vote
(sorry guys, im british and i feel strongly in this issue, but we really dont matter to america)

[ October 22, 2004, 23:41: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 40 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: kerry or bush (40 votes.)

kerry or bush (Choose 1)
* Bush - 25% (10)
* kerry - 45% (18)
* abstain - 30% (12)

Do you mean who we WANT to win, who we THINK will win, or who we plan to vote for?

If the first case, you need a write-in slot. I don't WANT either of these two in charge.

I want Bill back.

One has no brain, the other has no spine. Get a third one.

which has no spine?

and to clarify: you go down the voting booth tomorrow, and there are 2 candidates up for election, who would you vote for?

Kerry, yep, he's not the best, but he's much better than Shrub.

I think this website pretty much sums things up:
www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.c om (http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.c om)

Guess there's no mystery how I voted. And I also don't need to tell you all that I think you are tragically wrong...well, most of you at least.

I'm looking for a good strong sedative to take for 4 years if Kerry gets elected...if he gets in, look out...not just for the US, but the entire western world.

God, I hate being right all the time.

sorry guys, im british and i feel strongly in this issue, but we really dont matter to america)
Nothing could be further from the truth - ALL Americans: Repubicans, Dems, cons, middle-of-the-roaders and libs, owe the Brits a huge THANK YOU for being supportive and standing by us during these times. It is not partisanship, but pure gratitude for helping us out. Thanks!

I'm looking for a good strong sedative to take for 4 years if Kerry gets elected Yes, HS, I'll loan you some of mine, since I've had to suffer through four years of Shrub - maybe even four more.

And it's tied at 3! I voted for Bush here and will vote for him on the real election day! :rolling:

Beta Vote (http://www.betavote.com) - the world's opinion on this.

God, I hate being right all the time
:rolleyes:


According to Ara's link, Azerbadjan, Barbados, Congo, Liechtenstein, Montserrat, Niger, Niue, St. Pierre and Miquelon, and Turkmenistan are the only ones where Bush is winning, and of these, Niger(which someone have cheated in, a small article at the bottom of the page) and Congo are the only ones which he have a convincing lead in.

Hell, even in USA, Kerry is leading with 74% against 25%.

Total, when I voted, it was Bush with 11% against Kerry's 88%.

Quite convincing that the world hates Bush, isn't it?

[ October 23, 2004, 22:28: Message edited by: Caleb* ]

Wow - if that's accurate, then the world hates Bush even more than I thought.

I'm British, so this doesn't really count, but - I want Kerry in simply so Bush is out. Then all we need is for Teflon Tony to lose his election (but to whom?).

Personally, I think that this poll (http://www.miniclip.com/hiphopdebate.htm) is just as accurate (currently Bush 57 - Kerry 43) and a hell of a lot more fun.

Quite convincing that the world hates Bush, isn't it? Well not really, the vote really doesen't seem to realiable and I doubt the people who said they're from Congo really aren't from Kongo and besides most internet polls are just completely useless.

I would like to comment this mass hysteria about Bush a bit and I just as well might do it here.

I really do not understand what's the big deal with him? I fail to see exactly how Bush is not just like any normal American president? What do you exactly think is the worst possible thing he could do? He may be stupid but he sure as hell ain't stupid enough start another war with the American army allready streched to its limits.

He might back down from international treaties but as an American president that is his choise and it's really the American people who choose what kind of foreign policy they want to see from their president. His actions might hurt the global economy but that too is his choise and if he wishes to do so then let him do so.

The damage he can do in one season is quite limited and if he does too much damage it's quite likely that we'll see a democratic president after four years, who'll (atleast try) set things right. I'm really getting sick of hearing the "If Bush is chosen we're all doomed!" chant. Lighten up people it's only one man and four years. I'm sure there are plenty enough Americans (well hopefully those on this board atleast :D ) who won't believe every word said in the Fox News.

EDIT: Thought I'd said a few words about Kerry too now that we're discussing them both here. The man seems decent enough and certainly seems more patient and intelligent in the debates than Bush, but he's been talking about quite a few "better plans" and I do not know if all these "better plans" would actually be good for America since it would be quite a policy change. He would be my candidate though based on the debates and the fact that I'm an European and Kerry would probably be a better choise for the European economy. ;)

[ October 24, 2004, 01:57: Message edited by: Morgoroth ]

I'm really getting sick of hearing the "If Bush is chosen we're all doomed!" chant. I'm looking for a good strong sedative to take for 4 years if Kerry gets elected...if he gets in, look out...not just for the US, but the entire western world.Don't only blame the democrats.

Well from what I've seen from Hacken Slash on these forums I'll assume that it was sarcasm (allthough you never know ), but I'm afraid the anti-bush camp is quite serious with their claims.

The Great Snook, that was hilarious, and yes I voted for Bush in that poll. He was simply the better dancer. The link deserves its own topic though.

Believe it or not it was The Little Snook who found that. I asked him how he voted and he claims he voted twice for Bush. I told him if you voted twice you probably are a Democrat :) . At that point Mrs. Snook yelled at me.

I told him if you voted twice you probably are a Democrat . Yes, and the voting machines will strangely register for Pat Buchanan.

The hiphop debate reminded me of an oldie but goodie (http://www.jibjab.com/play.asp?contentid=33) from the 2000 election. Gore clearly wins this one!

I understand that if Bush wins, Tony Blair has promised to undo another button on his shirt. If it's a landslide, he will breast-feed his infant on BBC. Just another reason to vote for Kerry.

I have no great illusions about a major change in US foreign policy when Kerry is elected -- too much damage has been done by Bush Jr. to force Kerry to stay in Iraq for a while ... be it only to counter the predictable republican lamenting not to "abandon Iraq".

I have no great illusions about Kerry being a dove. He simply isn't. His Vietnam service record suggests that he probably is more hawkish than Bush. But that doesn't concern me actually because Kerry has a major advantage over Bush:

He thinks, listens and decides based on thought and consultation rather than gut feeling or faith.

I found an interesting article from the New York Times Magazine (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ei=5090&en=890a96189e162076&ex=1255665600&partner=rssuserland&pagewanted=print&position=) by Ron Suskind: (...) Joe Biden was telling a story, a story about the president. ''I was in the Oval Office a few months after we swept into Baghdad,'' he began, ''and I was telling the president of my many concerns'' -- concerns about growing problems winning the peace, the explosive mix of Shiite and Sunni, the disbanding of the Iraqi Army and problems securing the oil fields. Bush, Biden recalled, just looked at him, unflappably sure that the United States was on the right course and that all was well. '''Mr. President,' I finally said, 'How can you be so sure when you know you don't know the facts?'''

Biden said that Bush stood up and put his hand on the senator's shoulder. ''My instincts,'' he said. ''My instincts.''

Biden paused and shook his head, recalling it all as the room grew quiet. ''I said, 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough!'''
... as if that wasn't creepy enough already -- it's getting outright scary with this quote from a whitehouse employee that seems to reflect the esprit de corps there: In the summer of 2002 (...) I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure (about that critical book he wrote with ex-secretary O'Neill), and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''Who needs reality when he has true faith and visions? In Iraq that approach didn't really work all THAT well ... and not even the faith of several million Americans was able to conjure up the desired WMD in Iraq (as for their minds, that's something else) ... and as for me, nothing bad about praying, but I have never passed an exam based on faith alone. Life doesn't work that way.

Kerry is simply the more rational choice and that alone will make me sleep calmer -- if he is elected.

you know, that hip hop poll above has been mentioned to me before, and ive found it strange that weeks ago when i looked at it the poll results were exactly the same

One has no brain, the other has no spine. Get a third one. Nader. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a clue.

Ragusa, your post is stunning. I guess the trick is finding the right quotes. In a post to yet another election question I noted that Pat Robertson, the TV evangelist, said that he was a little frightened by Bush's total sense of rightness; then he endorsed him. They see, but they fear to draw the conclusion. At the risk of being called a fear-mongerer I'll mention another famous person who trusted his instincts totally and believed he could forge a new reality by force. That would be Adolph Hitler.

[ October 26, 2004, 05:25: Message edited by: Cernak ]

An interesting article from Le Monde Diplomatique, titled: What’s the matter with West Virginia? (http://mondediplo.com/2004/10/02usa) "Bush is very comfortable with people. He can deliver a message. He has this attitude which unfortunately America likes: ’Somebody hit me, I am going to hit that somebody in the butt.’ He is not wise, but he is very very decisive even if it’s sometimes stupid. I think he’s a very formidable guy politically."
(...)
Europeans, intellectuals and artists may argue all night about exaggerated threats, torture at Abu Ghraib prison and the looting of art treasures. But this carries no weight with conservative working- class people in the US. The Republicans are past-masters of presenting themselves as victims of the liberal elite, a horde of quibbling lawyers, haughty academics, depraved journalists and know-it-all actors. And at times they are quite right. There is no doubt that most intellectuals and "experts" are out of touch with ordinary life and are hopelessly self-centred. They laugh at popular tradition and all the hicks in remote places in the back country who still support Bush. But Fox News and the Republicans thrive on the bitterness their divisive attitude creates.

I wonder how long it will take for the "Don't blame me, I voted for Bush" bumper stickers to to hit stores nation wide if Kerry gets elected. I'd buy one...Kerry is an idiot! :rolling:

I wonder how long it will take for the "Don't blame me, I voted for Bush" bumper stickers to to hit stores nation wide if Kerry gets elected. I'd buy one...Kerry is an idiot! I wouldn't buy any bumper stickers yet. Realistically, it seems that Kerry needs to make a clean sweep of Ohio, PA and Florida to win the election. While it is in the realm of possibility it appears unlikely. So it would seem that YOUR idiot is safe to win.

I wonder how long it will take for the "Don't blame me, I voted for Bush" bumper stickers to to hit stores nation wide if Kerry gets elected. I'd buy one...Kerry is an idiot! If Kerry is an idiot, then I shudder to think what kinds of invective Dubya deserves. The man and his administration are a threat to the stability of the world. To turn the right's rhetoric back on itself, they need to be excised like the cancer they are.

Sure, the left is often completely out of touch with reality, but Bush seems to believe he's been touched by divine providence. A man who can justify anything in the name of a greater power is dangerous, all the more so if he runs the most powerful country on the planet.

I live in one of the most depressed areas in Ohio. Our county, Morgan, regularly leads the state in number of unemployed, and has done so for years. One of the few remaining factories just moved itself to the Philippines. Health care is a joke; they get sick and die. And still the Bush signs sprout like thistles on the hills. But this year there are a lot of Kerry signs too, quite a few really. Hope among the thistles; so hang in there and keep fighting.