Now that everyone seems to be flooding the Alley with threads about a certain election I thought we might discuss about the problems of the "old continent" for a while. :p

Well Barroso withdrew his suggestions for the new EU comission mostly because of Italy's comissionaire(sp?) Buttiglione who has been talking openly against homosexuals and women. Italy (or in other words Berlusconi) though is not very willing to withdraw Buttiglione which might in worst case lead to Barroso's resignation. As if this was not enough of trouble, the conservative group (which is the biggest political group in the EU parliament) are supporting the current lineup and have been quite strongly protesting against changes.

Buttiglione has also awoken a lot of talk about other incompetent members of the comission too such as the Hungarian comissionaire for energy who seems to have no knowledge about his sector.

Personally I'm very worried that member countries send comissionaires who have no idea about their work but on the other hand I'm happy that the parliament has shown that they actually do have a purpose. How do other Europeans (non European views also welcome) feel about this issue? Does the competence of the comission matter do you? I would also like to hear your oppinions about Buttiglione and Barroso. I'll probably be posting more views about the subject later.

Finally for those who lack knowledge about the subject here's a link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3960867.stm

Well, not being from a member country, I'm still glad to see it. And I'm expecting more of that. The problem is, that the goverments of the member-countries have way too much to say. Of course, because the whole is still an agreement amongst the goverments of the member-countries. But the sooner the parliament gets real power and the ability to pick the members of the commissions themselves the better. Because every country, from the British to the Austrians, sends the worst of their politicans to the commissions and tries to make all the hot potatoe issues thei'ye either not willing or not able to deal with at home to an EU-responsibility. This way, they don't offend voter segments through trying to solve the issue, while still can blame others for all the negative results.

Italy is just a good example of both. They made their everlasting problem with integrating their southern provinces into Italy an European problem. This way, the north isn't so furious anymore, as they aren't burdend with paying subsidies for the south no more, the EU does. Problem unsolved, yet nowhere to put the blame on. Likely, making a cheap tough stand. Getting Buttiglione into the commission is good publicity by those who like his stand, while no backlash from people who disagree has to be feared, his been promoted to an amorph place far, far way and not in the front of the nose of a potentially angered Italian voter after all.

Well, all this trouble just shows that one of my two predictions will happen.

Prediction 1
The EU will join together between 2015-2020 and become a new superpower.

Prediction 2
The EU will cease to exist in under 5 years, 10 at most.

I really hope it's the second choise.

I'll join you in your second option Caleb. :D

The EU is but a dream. It would be nice if we could actually pull it off, but there's too much diversity to ever EVER come to agreements. This Italian conservatist from the dark ages is just a small example of the troubles they will face in future. Most the the Dutch representatives are former members of our government, who screwed up one way or another, and made it impossible for themselves to maintain their position. In any other line of work you would get sacked for failures of the kind they made, but in politics you get promoted to EU commissioner, a position where they can't be of any harm to our own internal affairs, but can still fill their pockets with a big fat salary in a position which is a complete mystery to the outside world.

I hope that the EU will last. There is a pressure for political globalization, and the EU is the model.

IIRC, the new commission was delayed because of the parliaments refusal of six commissioners, not only because of Buttiglione.
(While I think that he can believe what he wants, I don't think these quotes qualify him for that particular office.)

As for diversity: It's actually good. All of the unions states have pluralistic societies
The only problem is how you organize the public discussion over controversial issues.

[ October 29, 2004, 23:18: Message edited by: Fabius Maximus ]

I, too, hope that the EU will be a success. Superpower or no, it will be far more influential than any single european country. Certainly more capable of protecting the interests and values of the people of Europe. How can someone wish for it to fail?! Unless they experience a strong urge to be dominated by non-european powers in the future, with all the consequences for our lifes.

On topic: I watched this debacle for Barroso on Euronews. Almost dramatic. Such uproar and excitement in the EU Parliament. :D Always a fun to observe.
Actually I enjoyed seeing Barroso being slapped on the wrist quite a bit. I have no love for this supporter of the war in Iraq. Buttiglione? Good to know that he is out, thanks to the greens, socialists and liberals. That guy is so yesterday and has no place in an important position like that of the commission. Not everyone seems to be aware that the majority of the laws we live by are made by the EU institutions. We should all take interest what is going on there and who participates.

From what I heard there is a powerstruggle between the institutions of the EU underway. The Parliament no longer wants to be a compliant entity who lets the national governments (comission) have their will at every turn. Good news for you and me for the Parliament represents the people of Europe, not the interests of some nations.

A strong EU is just what America needs, both politically and economically. I hope y'all work this out and get things moving in the right direction.

I actually heard about this yesterday morning on the news as I was getting ready for work (OK, OK, it wasn't American news, but BBC. You caught me.). Whatever Buttiglione's other qualifications may be, his hyper-conservative social views hardly qualify him for the position of JUSTICE Commissioner (and trust me, with John Ashcroft as out current Attorney General, I know whereof I speak). Is there another position he could do where he'd be less problematic?

And how is this a slap at Barroso? The story I heard seemed to say that he did the best thing possible by pulling the slate from consideration. Does he still have the ultimate responsibility for the slate, even though the members are nominated by their respective countries?

I don't believe the EU will completely unite and become one entity. The main reason is that they would lose not gain a lot of world influence. Currently each EU nation gets a vote in the U.N. and more importantly in the WTO and other "international" organizations. If they become one entity they would lose the ability to easily out-vote things they don't like.

I dont know about the details of the procedures, Rally - whether or not Barroso can reject a candidate. Although I would think that the president of the commission has a say who gets into his team. That he even accepted this person is telling enough.
Anyway, from what I gathered Barroso went so far and deceisivly stood by Buttiglione, trying to pull him through.
Suprisingly Berlusconi approached Buttiglione to make him reconsider his candidacy, but he would have none of it.

So, Barroso supported Buttiglione despite the strong resistance of the Parliament - and got whacked on the head. :) At least thats my understanding of the situation.

Buttiglone is Berlusconi's man and that alone should disqualify him from any work in the atleast somewhat democratic EU. For gods sake the man wants to put up what basically amounts to concentration camps outside of EU borders to house hopeful refugees and immigrants!

@Snook: If the EU unifies, it will probably get a chair in the UN-security council. That means a lot more influence, even after an strongly needed reform.
Heck, it should get one now instead of one for Germany only.

You are right, Dendri. The designated commissions president gets to choose his own team.
He still has to select one commissioner for every one member country. The draft for the EU-constitution - which was signed by the member's administrations today - wants to change that after 2014.

The crux about this whole affair is that the parliament can only refuse the commission as a whole. So, Barroso's choice of commissioner would have likely been rejected.
This is also changed in the constitution draft. If it's ratified by the member's parliaments the candidates can be rejected separately.

@Snook: If the EU unifies, it will probably get a chair in the UN-security council. That means a lot more influence, even after an strongly needed reform.
Heck, it should get one now instead of one for Germany only.
Probably less influence. The security counsil currently consists of China, Russia, France, the UK and the US as permanent members. That is two European countries. If the EU becomes a member, France and the UK will no longer be a permanent member. So then there will be one European state in the security counsil. We could still use our veto right however.

Probably less influence. The security counsil currently consists of China, Russia, France, the UK and the US as permanent members. That is two European countries. If the EU becomes a member, France and the UK will no longer be a permanent member. So then there will be one European state in the security counsil. We could still use our veto right however.Do you really think that UK will be part of the EU? I don't.

The EU as a member of the security council will have more political power because it will be representing a lot of states.
And don't count on the veto. With the addition of new members they absolutly have to discharge the veto. The SC would be unable to act anymore with 9 or 10 veto-states.

Thanks for the info, Maximus. :)