The idea for this topic came to me due to some private chats I've had. Now I see it as a light hearted, fun subjects. If it should get serious our lawfully alligned Admins will move it where they see fit.

I think we can all agree that men and women are not the same. Let me stress that the following comments are strictly my own.

Men are fairly simple and straight forward. Women are complicated; partly due to needing to survive in a male dominated world. No wonder men don't understand us, we hardly understand ourselves. :eek:

Men are fairly simple and straight forward. Women are complicated; partly due to needing to survive in a male dominated world. No wonder men don't understand us, we hardly understand ourselves. I do not agree with you on this point. I think men can be as complicated. As one, I can tell you that we hardly understanf ourselve also. No I think that the problem lies in the difference, men and women doesn't understand each because of the difference in their value.

It might have been true a hundred years ago, but I don't think so today. I know many friends (who are man) who are really really complicated and just plain weird. No think the ''modern world'' has just messed up the head of both men and women

See ? You already made it even more complicated than it ever was. I honestly hope my girlfriend won't read this thread and regards it as an opportunity to bust my balls again. If she does, be sure i'll sue.

IMO: Women and men tend to find each other hard to understand due to the obvious gender differences. Males tend to be less emotional and find certain "small things" less important, while females are more in touch to their emotions and "the small things in life" (generally speaking, not all males or females are like that, of course). Such differences tend to make females seem more complicated and males less complicated or caring.

Personally, I believe they are both equally complicated. For example: I had a friend (male) who was the average guy who went out with his opposite gender simply to "sleep with them," not taking their emotions into consideration. However, the females he always dated were "the ex of a friend of his who got screwed over by her," which made him feel he had to make that certain female pay for emotionally hurting his friend, which lead to the "using" he often did.

The everyday people who generalize others into certain "groups" based purely on what they see/hear are who are to blame for the common belief of males being less complicated IMO (among many other things). Same goes for females as well. One can never truly understand other people, especially those so different from one's self.

NOTE: That was all IMO, if anyone got offended for whatever reason, then my apologies :D

My partner says I am as complicated as any woman she knows!

I am controlled by my heard and heart, not my hormones.

Two emotions that are the same in both man and women are - nevertheless - at a different tempo - hence they never cease to misunderstand one anotherFriedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

I just recalled that (ta, Jag! :D ) and thought it seemed appropriate ... especially from a man who had marriage proposals rejected twice, and died alone and insane!

Even given Nietzsche's fruitless endeavours, he puts it well, I think.

Some of my female friends say men can be as complicated as women are, and as random. To be honest, I believe that if something is complicated, it simply requires more knowledge, experience or a better focused brain to solve. I don't believe in randomness. Things happen for a reason and if people are truly, truly random, then something is wrong with them -- and it has nothing to do with the gender.

I suppose some of the problems come from overlooking some differences and overestimating some others. For example, it is said that women require much attention and guys don't. Okay, I do like respect more than pampering, but I hate being ignored. If there is something that could make me feel ignored, it will. It takes a lot of effort for me to get over being ignored and something gradually dies in me, whether we are talking about a friend or a romantic interest. And yeah, I'm male and not exactly the girly kind. Unreplied messages, unreturned calls, not being talked to, being avoided... all those things put a dagger in my heart. Even if this is supposed to be a female thing, not a male one.

As for differences, they are there and are there for a reason. Women and men are supposed to complement one another, so they have to be different. ;) It's just that, while there is always some truth in stereotypes, stereotypes aren't accurate and are often hurtful.

So, does anyone have a couple of stereotypes to debunk? Just name the quality you think only males or only females have...

Interestingly, chev, this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4251968.stm) article has just appeared on the BBC site, the gist of which is that men and women aren't so different after all! I think it's really just saying that most stereotypes are bunk, rather than that men and women are really the same, but you know how folks like to spin every new study that appears. ;)

I'll stick with Nietzsche's comment above, for now - some of his others are incredibly mysogynistic, which I attribute to sour grapes - and probably best ignored. :shake:

Channel 5 series "Don't get me started" with Michael Burke (BBC newsreader)

Traditional Sterotypes:

To be a woman and, therefore, by definition caring, nurturing, co-operative, pacific, adaptable and in touch with your emotions, is the acceptable side of being human.

Being male, in any traditional sense, is unacceptable. Traditional male virtues aren't just unfashionable; they are dysfunctional.

Stoicism, reticence, courage and singlemindedness are signs of emotional immaturity these days. Strength is mere brutishness now it is no longer necessary....

...
And, as we all seem to be agreed, he is messy, potentially violent, emotionally stunted and a general all-round nuisance – so what's the point of him?
More Text:

http://www.fmwf.com/C2B/PressOffice/display.asp?ID=754&Type=1

I think "reticence" is the key difference. In General, men just don't feel the need to discuss emotions or problems amongst themselves. In my experience, men also tend to be more romantically inclined, Women being more practical with relationships.

In terms of understanding? The person (other than myself) I understand more than anyone else is my partner. Possibly why we have such a good relationship.

Man! I really start believing I'm a Metrosexual..!

So many differences and even more things in common....

For most women the physical part of a relationship follows the emotional part -- 'I must trust you before I put myself at risk alone with you.' For most men, the emotional follows the physical -- 'You must trust me before I allow myself to be attached.'

An interesting observation from Gaven DeBecker: A small child is lost in a store and comes up to a stranger for help. If the stranger is a man (and not a deviant) he will take the child to the store manager and leave the child with competant authority. If the stranger is a woman, she will take the child to the store manager and wait for the mother or father to pick up the child.

A man is taught, almost from birth, he is stronger than a woman. I had this conversation with my wife, who is very athletic (this was a hypothetical discussion -- I could never imagine hurting my wife). She can easily bench 165 pounds and was benching ~190 in college. I can only bench 150. Yet, I believe (without a doubt in my mind) I could easily and quickly defeat her in physical battle -- even knowing she is stronger than I am. She THINKS she can take me on, there is some doubt there though. I believe this mentality (that the man would win) is something we are taught, and unfortunately it gives the edge to the male criminal. He believes he is tougher, stronger and faster than his victim -- so does all but the most exceptional female victim.

The biggest thing men and women have in common is that we both want the man happy!

Hmm...you can see I have not been married yet...

This is a complicated issue. No real doubt that men are as complicated as women, any real study of historical figures will tell you that, as will reading many authors. The differences, however, are very complicated.

On the one hand, many of the differences are social, or learned. Different types of games, colors, toys, and many attitudes towards communication and activity are learned and socially based.

On the other hand, there are some fundamental diferences that go beyond the physical. Fun experiment: get a group of men and a seperate group of women to describe the perfect/worst anything. Example: The women describe the perfect man: intelectual, handsome, wealthy, funny, a gentleman, strong, etc. The men just say "Bond, James Bond." They are both describing the exact same thing, but men, without fail, will use an example where available, whereas women are much more likely to explain it in detail.

Also, research shows that men are much more comfortable at working alone on a hands-on project while women are much more comfortable at working together in a planning context. The results don't change that much, but each says that the other activity seems forced and unnatural. Nature or nurture?

By the way, research actually shows that men feel emotions much more strongly and easily than women, but that they don't socialize these emotions. Men are more prone to an emotional reaction than women. Nature or nurture?

I think women often regard emotions as things in and of themselves; men often look at them as the impetus or result of actions.

@T2Bruno: It takes more than strength.... there's also the right constitution, the right mindset... whatever it takes to make a warrior. I've been able to take on stronger people but I also know the unassuming creatures can be a lot of pain sometimes. ;)

EDIT: I forgot to address the physical part. ;)

I'm a guy and I have the same kind of body as everyone and get the same impulses. However, I would have really, really to trust a woman to be comfortable with physical displays of affection. If you see me holding hands with someone or find a girl on my lap, it's more likely to be a good friend than anything else and surely not a new crush. Kissing on a first date? Hahah. I don't do dates. And there's certainly no kissing on a first alone meeting with a girl. Slow dancig? No kidding... Default choice with a good friend, not bloodely likely with a stranger on a random rave.

@LNT: I believed the contrary in some of my relationships. Basically, we both wanted her to be happy but my happiness, if at all a concern, was probably a comfort issue to make her feel better about herself. Don't get me wrong, there's probably no greater reward for me than seeing someone happy, but situations like the one described are quite... disturbing.

@NoG: Are you sure about the perfect man? In my experience, first- and second-hand, being intellectual doesn't get you far and being a gentleman gets you nowhere.

You seem to be right on emotions. I'm a guy, I feel them strongly but if you see any on me, I probably have a purpose in showing them. With women, you see it easily, even if you don't know what it is yet.

[ September 21, 2005, 00:00: Message edited by: chevalier ]

I'm something of an oddity with respect to emotion. While I went through my 'robot' phase like any other guy (please tell me somebody else did that too), I try to project my emotions now. Whether by a wry smile, a wink, narrowed eyes, or more recently a smilie, I always try to help people understand my (frequently incomprehensible :grin: ) behaviour and utterances.

EDIT: I'm also very self-involved. ;)

Sometimes my girlfriend is happy she is happy or sad she is sad...

<sarcasm>What?!?! You people think there are differences between men and women?!?!?! Do you not know that the only difference is the plumbing!?!?! Our minds are exactly the same!</sarcasm>

Next you will be telling me that those differences mean something and imply some sort of complementarity -- you know, like marriage.

A symptom of the brain difference has been spotted! Apparently, one of the things that is missing from the Y chromosome enables women to see clutter. Hence, all males are afflicted with a condition known as "clutterblindness", which makes them unable to see all the random stuff that's scattered around their home. When reached for comment, a typical male had this to say:
What women don't realize is that the floor is in fact a very low, big shelf. - some comic

After years of extensive study, I've come to the conclusion that women are indeed carefully disguised aliens.


...and that "resistance is futile"...

Chevalier: @NoG: Are you sure about the perfect man? In my experience, first- and second-hand, being intellectual doesn't get you far and being a gentleman gets you nowhere. We obviously have different experiences. My girlfriend would either clober herself, or get her large, bulky brother to clober, anyone who treated her disrespectfully. Interestingly, she thinks that, not only will there never be a female president, but that this is a good thing! :D Have I found the perfect girl or what?

Felinoid:
All of existance is just a massive collection of storrage spaces. Most people look into my room and see a complete mess. I look at it and know where everything is, no matter how long it has been there. Interestingly, my grilfriend, who is a complete neat freak, used to just see the mess. After some experience with it, however, she now sees a perfectly ordered room, if not the order she would employ.

Well... I was talking in a bit cynical way. I've seen things happen for good guys that bad guys couldn't hope for etc etc, it's just that until a certain moment in time, good guys practically invariably lose to bad guys in the long run. Generally, much of it is due to the fact that a gentleman won't do certain things no matter if he gets screwed. He's better off screwed than otherwise, anyway. ;) Not complaining about my current fate, by any means. :D