Okay, since we slided a little bit off-topic in Relationship Rant, I've had the idea of a thread about life, it's meaning, and kind of stuff like that. Since it's a somewhat serious topic, I figured that posting it in AoDA would be better than in Whatnots.

So, my dear fellows SPers, what is your opinion on life? Does it have a meaning? Do you like it? Hate it? Do you live it at it's full extent, or do you wait for death?

Express yourself...

I'm a hedonist I have three rules for life
1. If you're not enjoying it, change it
2. Don't worry, be happy
3. Observe rules 1 & 2

I really enjoy life. There are so many thing I like to do:
-finish my studies
-get a good job
-have my own little headbangers :D
-get new and cool [instert one of my fav metal bands name] album
-go to Wacken each year
Also like DS I'm a hedonist. But of course that doesn't mean that life is always good. Sometimes it sucks so much then there is nothing else to make me happy except for doomest doom metal (it's good to know that there are some people who's life is worst the mine) :D :p Nothing is more cheerefull then doom metal :p

I was thinking about this a couple weeks ago, during school. I was looking forward to the weekend. But, then I thought:

The weekend is only two days. Then we have to go back to school and work hard. Then another small weekend, then more school. It goes on like this unil we graduated from highschool, and then repeats in college. Once we graduate from college, it repeats in work life until we die. Pretty sucky. All we do is work, work, work, with little time to play.

I concluded that our sole purpose in life is to work to be successful until we die.

Basically, for me, life is overrated. I'll still live it with enthusiasm, considering we only get one chance, but when you look at it, who cares anymore?

In anycase, I'll live life however I happen to live it. I would rather have more fun than work/school, but alas, I doubt it will happen, especially since our world revolves around money, not happiness.

Life. When one gets to my age a book could be written about it.

Getting up in the morning is an achievement. "Hey, great I'm still alive."

Seriously, life is to be enjoyed. Find a job you like, some one to love, develop hobbies, good friends, keep on learning.

Help those who need help and accept graciously the help others can give you.

My goal is to have an affluent life. Being rich and having lots of stuff makes me happy, but thats just me. Thats why right now I am working my ass off in school and not partying every weekend. I don't want to end up like some of you guys (no offence).

Haha, that wasn't very nice. Yeah, I work hard in school, so I can become an engineer, because I love doing stuff like that.

My goal in life is not to become rich: if I do so, all the better, but I do try to be happy. Life just looks glum, though, when happiness is not always there.

Nakia's view on life is probably the way I want to go with mine, but it is difficult for most people to do.

That was simply BRILLIANT, Saber. I totally agree.

My own outlook on life is an oddball mix of hedonism, cynism and fatality. I'll explain. I love the pleasures of life, but I dislike life itself. It has been nothing but a ***** for me. So while I will never flirt with suicide, I am looking foward to death. And why accomplish grandiose things? Does it matter in the end? You can't take an empire with you when you die.

We live to work, as Saber would say. That isn't the way it should be. Our lives are short enough, and yet we have to waste them working? Obviously something went very, very wrong somewhere.

Heh, it is funny. The whole point of the industrial revolution was supposed to free people (somewhat, at least) from toil. Instead, looks like we are more shackled to work now.

Bah, you have to try to do something you like. Money are secondary :) if you look at surveys, the more people make, the less happy they are. (Unless you get to earn in the milions; then you can kick back and relax, I would imagine :) ) good luck to you, grillen ;)

I have to disagree with Saber and DotW we do not live to work. The world is structured in such a way that work is a necessary evil and more importantly is used by those in power to keep the masses too occupied to revolt against the system; even if you do revolt the system absorbs your revolution and carries on as normal.

The trick is and it's a hard trick to carry out is to get through the work as painleesly as possible and then live your life.

As an example out of an ordinary 168 hour week I spend 35 hours working @ £35 per hour and 5 hours a week travelling to and from work, I sleep on average 4 hours a night. I own my house and I don't have a mortgage, I have 2 ex-wives who aren't entitles to anything from me and I have 2 adult children who only want to see me when they're in trouble.

So after my responsibilties and bills I have a hundred hours a week to do what I want to do and believe me I do.

Nakia pretty muched summed up my views on the topic. Unless you're amazingly lucky, you're going to be spending the majority of your life working, so it's best to do something that you really enjoy, or at least don't hate.

Feeling good, it's good to feel good. We must all do what makes us feel good. That's all there is to it.

Life. What does it mean to me? Not much. I don't get much pleasure out of it with a few exceptions. I don't follow my suicidal tendencies to their conclusion because I would hate to leave my daughter and husband alone. I don't want to die - been there, done that and going back is not on my list of fun things to do for an afterlife.

I suppose my generalization of life is that I intersperse my depressive mentality with what will ease the voice in my head, mainly playing CRPGs, DnD, reading, writing and SP. I hide behind a facade of quick wit and humor.

Gak, I have revealed my inner depressist! Oh well. :heh:

I have to qualify my prior statements with this:

How I viewed life when say 20 and how I view it 45 yrs later are two different things. At 20 I was very idealistic and out to save the world. Now? Read my prior post.

Interesting. It seems that Saber, kuemper and I have a depressive side. I hear you two.

And to all who like life: What makes it so good? I fail to understand. Maybe I'm just a foppish idiot, or perhaps the gloom clouds everything.

carpe diem :)

The truth I find about life is that it sucks majorly. There is war famine and death everywhere, even in our most peaceful havens there is corruption and lies. Life is totally meaningless. Science says we are an accident, that the chances in us being alive and breathing is one in trillions. Life is the biggest mistake ever; BUT IN THAT LIES THE SECRET MY FRIENDS. Life is meaningless so you have to make meaning. Life sucks so you have to make it good. The world is corrupt so WE MAY FIX IT. That is what life is about. If everything was perfect and peaceful life would be boring, there would be nothing to do, nothing to push for or accomplish. As human beings we have the thought and reason to overcome such things. We climb a mountain only to get halfway up then fall off. THEN WE TRY AGAIN. I love my life, I have great family, good friends and live in an awsome place with good, kind ppl all around.

This is what i think of life. We were created at the bottom and have to make our way to the top. And reality is there to bite us in the rear the whole way.

But hey when you get there the view is breathtaking ;)

I never meant to suggest that I don't have a depressive side I do and sometimes are quite bad; for myself always within my circle of friends is a character i usually refer as my jester. He/she is usually a pain in the a**e, stupid, irritating but they nearly always manage to make me smile, and from there it's easy to get back on track. Humour is the great panacea I use.

Life rules. Life is what you make of it. Some of you people have very negative outlooks on life. If life ever gets me down (which is hardly ever), I just need to look at my son smile at me and say "Daddy? Up?" when he wants to be picked up for a hug. Magic.

At it's most basic? Eat, live, reproduce. That's really about it. Of course, that's not so much the meaning as the purpose. I'm more concerned with what it means to be human. Cold functionality is not a happy way to view one's existence.

I don't think we're just here to work; it's a bloody depressing way to view life. I don't *love* work, but I recognise what it allows me to do. Because of my education and my employment, I eat well, I live reasonably well, plus I have a wonderful partner and enough self-chosen distractions to keep me relatively happy.

In the end, if all we are is a bunch of positive and negative charges running around looking for a reason why, I figure we may as well be happy, or at least not grumpy all the time. Find happiness and enjoyment where you can. You're a long time dead, so why dwell on misery? If it all means nothing in the end, at least the journey will have been fun. When I'm Nakia's age, maybe I'll see it differently.

Honestly, I think Douglas Adams had it right - the answer is 42; the question is "what do you get if you multiply nine by five?" To which the response was something like "I always knew there was something fundamentally wrong with the universe."

EDIT: Huzzah! 900 posts and a sweet-lookin' gem!

My outlook on life stems from a childhood event, which I won't get into. Needless to say, I got sick of looking for the good things in life and swallowing my teeth afterwards. Depression, for me anyway, makes me not care about 99% of the crap going on in the world. That 1% is my close family and 2 friends. Am I crazy? Yup. Are the people who think life is effing fantastic? Yup. Does it really matter? No. :)

MAH-velous, kuemp. You deserve a hug for this.

/me quickly hugs kuemp and dodges sharp objects

I would call them sickeningly optimist instead of crazy...

Maybe I'm just a foppish idiot, or perhaps the gloom clouds everything. Excuse me, Adelth is the foppish idiot.

kuemp, if 1% of the world is your family and friends, then you have a massive family. Huuuuuuge. But, I agree. Screw the rest. Who needs 'em? Most of them don't even make it in life (all of the 'cool' people in school who wasted a good opportunity at an education and end up working at a job that requires no brainpower.)

Speaking of nobodies: I go to a private school that has a very good educating system. However, for some stupid reason, the school accepts unintelligent dolts who only know how to play sports. Those people waste the opportunity that has been given to them. They have a chance to do great things, but they don't. And all of those people who get turned down miss that opportunity, even if they deserve it more. The 'cool,' athletic, unintelligent people are a waste of space at schools that require brains.

Anyways, that rant was long, but I had to do it. Bringing it back to the life topic: those are the people who won't make it anywhere because they squander opportunities. Those are the 99% of people I don't care about, in my case.

Life has a meaning, everything has. That I don't always know it is a different matter. If I like it is irrelevant, hate is a waste of energy. I enjoy it, especially the connection with the universe and with nature and I'm certainly not waiting for death. I like the feeling that I really am alive, but I take my time, am not obsessed with how many things I could be doing if I cared or how much better it could be if I weren't so lazy. I like to enjoy things but I don't want to be a slave of any of them. I don't like excess... but I don't like excess in lack of excess, either. Moderation in everything, including moderation seems to be quite a nice rule. Of course, to be taken with a pinch of salt. I am here and I am there. Between unhealthy enthusiasm and unproductive defeatism you will find me, not always in the middle.

This topic sure is more popular than I thought it would... interesting.

@Saber: Once again, I am inclined to agree. You're pretty wise for 15, you know that?

carpe diemNo, no, no. Carpe jugular.


:p

i just find people who are depressed lazy. there are hundreds of thousands of things you can do to entertain yourself, make yourself happy or to help you find meaning. those who go through life always depressed are just wasting their time. FIND YOUR OWN HAPPYNESS other people are not going to live your life for you.

However, those who stop and smell the roses too much are unaware of the panther sneaking up behind them. Exceedingly happy people need to tune into reality a little more.

And a tip for those depressed: find a religion. Even if you dont have any trust in the almighty or in karma, religion is still a good path to take. All the religions in the world are the same things in different wrapings. Religion helps you become a better person-and in that light-find yourself. Self awareness is sometimes the path to meaning. You just need to be aware of your inner needs.

(and sorry if i went a little off topic. hope I didnt offend any of you)

My outlook on life? Live it to your full. Do what you enjoy, until you no longer enjoy it, then do something else! I hate hearing these people complain about how much they hate a job yet they never leave it for something more enjoyable. If you can help make the world a better place while enjoying life, all the better. If not, who cares. As long as you've had fun, done everything you wanted in life and had fun, that's all that counts in the end.

That's how I've tried to live my life so far, and how I plan to continue living it. During my schooling life I've just taken subjects that I've enjoyed, not ones that people think I should take, ones that I'm good at, or anything else. Next year when I'm off to uni I'm doing exactly the same. Political Scinces and Economics. People ask if I want to be an economist or something like that when I grow up. My reply usually is something along the lines of "Never. I'd hate to be stuck behind a desk". Which usually follows by why I'm taking those subjects then. "Because I enjoy them". After that, who knows. Currently I'm thinking of getting into teaching for a few years, while travelling the world. Then settle down with a family, and get into politics or diplomacy. As long as it's fun, who cares.

It would suck if life had a meaning, why should life has a meaning? We're here, good, that's it that's all. Might as well get some happyness before the end. No seriously I take life for what it is; life. I don't want a meaning or a purpose. Imagine, all of out the sudden somebody or something came to you and told you; the purpose of life is THIS. Now knowng this can you realy do anything but THIS. Even though you might *hate* it? Maybe some won't do THIS but they'll *know* that their life has no purpose since they don't follow THIS. Got my meaning? Getting a job you like is as essentiel as anything in life. People enjoy life! Go and see thing! The world is vast and many thing can trigger the imagination, your mind and imagination can lead you to another plane of existence. Anyway life has no meaning and that's what is cool about it.

Can't understand why people wants to find meanings and purposes to everything. Can't you just accept somethings may be completly useless but worthy nonetheless? Siting in the woods admiring nature serve no purpose. Enjoying food and wine with friends is puposeless too, still we do it. It's up to everyone to live the life they want.

Fuel your imagination, your mind! Don't let the ''logic'' of the world control you. Nothing is more boring than ''logic''. You are the sole master of your mind, might as well get creative and enjoy it eh?

@Ofelix:
:thumb: :roll:

The purpose of life is to live.

...not sure where I read that...

I was thinking about this a couple weeks ago, during school. I was looking forward to the weekend. But, then I thought:

The weekend is only two days. Then we have to go back to school and work hard. Then another small weekend, then more school. It goes on like this unil we graduated from highschool, and then repeats in college. Once we graduate from college, it repeats in work life until we die. Pretty sucky. All we do is work, work, work, with little time to play.

I concluded that our sole purpose in life is to work to be successful until we die.

Basically, for me, life is overrated. I'll still live it with enthusiasm, considering we only get one chance, but when you look at it, who cares anymore?

In anycase, I'll live life however I happen to live it. I would rather have more fun than work/school, but alas, I doubt it will happen, especially since our world revolves around money, not happiness. My exact thoughts. I sure could be doing something that I enjoy instead of going to school, but then what would happen? Sucky job/no job at all --> not much money --> low social status --> less options on what to do --> sucky, booring life.

About athletes: they have a right to live too, you know... I mean, if they get into a school because of their athletical skills, they should still be able to go to the school if they keep their grades average... Many of the top schools want good athletes to make a name for themselves.

tipperon, I'm tempted to say something really rude to you, but I won't. You obviously don't know a thing about depression.

And yes, you offended me.

Tipperon you know nothing about depression and to suggest that the cure-all for it is religion is obscene.

I know of two people who died as a direct result of clinical depression, one my best friend hung himself and the other his girlfriend overdosed despite being a devout catholic. You can tell their families their deaths were not a result of imbalnced brain chemistry and illness but laziness.

Oh yeah you've offended me, and please next time you want to make a generalization know what you're talking about.

I really can't be bothered to think about useless things such as the meaning of life. I take one step at a time preferrably forward in my life. What kind of steps they are depend on how I feel at the time.

I agree with Susipaisti and DS. Never speak of something you don't know a damn thing about. I am still struggling with the remains of my own maniaco-depression (the type of depression that shifts your mood from hyper to moody in a split second). Depression is not a laughing matter. And neither is it a sign of laziness.

And, yes, you offended me as well.

i just find people who are depressed lazy. there are hundreds of thousands of things you can do to entertain yourself, make yourself happy or to help you find meaning. those who go through life always depressed are just wasting their time. FIND YOUR OWN HAPPYNESS other people are not going to live your life for you.The things that would make me happy are felonies. :evil:

And a tip for those depressed: find a religion. Even if you dont have any trust in the almighty or in karma, religion is still a good path to take. All the religions in the world are the same things in different wrapings. Religion helps you become a better person-and in that light-find yourself. Self awareness is sometimes the path to meaning. You just need to be aware of your inner needs.:pope: Religion didn't help me much as a child through my teens (Catholic fyi) and I've spent the last 20 years finding my own way to deal with 'a higher power'. By sifting through the :bs: of Catholicism and combining it with other religions, I have a faith of my own. Religion might help some, but not me.

Do you understand that some depressions (mine to be specific) are a result of a chemical imbalance in the brain? I have a standing prescription for several anit-depressants, but I found whenever I would display any sort of emotion, my familiy would badger me about taking my pills. I couldn't be happy at seeing a kitten or cry over Ol' Yeller without hearing my mother say, "You need to take your pill."

I have found much relief for my anger in computer games like Mortal Kombat, Unreal Tourament and Jedi Academy. Also, buying cheap, breakable chatchkis and giving them a slam against the wall will let out a lot of steam.

I have discovered ways to deal with my depression that don't affect my family and friends - I do all my destruction when I am alone in the house.
hope I didnt offend any of you:hahaerr: You did, but I don't think it really bothers you that much, now does it? :grin:

Yes, alot of depression is chemical, not religion based...

And a possible reason for depression is that the person cannot find anything to do, so don't yell at people to find one of the 'thousands of things' that they can do...

And yes, you have offended me. While I am not depressed now, there have been stages in my life where I am gone months and months of being depressed, and nothing made me happy.

Next time, please speak from experience.

Well, life. That's the Big Question, isn't it?

/me ponders and organizes thoughts...


Well, firstly - the flip, funny answer would be 'Life sure beats the alternative.' :lol:

But seriously, meaning or purpose to life is, IMO, something a person has to find for THEMSELVES; I can't promise you my ideas are The Answer, but if they help you find yours, that's win-win. (see below)

I'd have to say I live my life by a modified :hippy: credo:

If it feels good - and it doesn't deny others their happiness - do it.

Joy and happiness are...welll...they're just great! We're getting into indescribable stuff here ("Define the shape of love" or "Describe the color of pride" :heh: ) And I'll be honest - I'm more than just a hedonist like most - I'm positively selfish when it comes to being happy. I'm addicted to it!

And here's a little secret; I dunno if anyone - anyone - else on the planet feels like this, but I've got a positive compulsion toward philanthropy and helping others and making people happy. Maybe it's part of this actual empathy I have, or whatever, but Mark Twain's saying is utterly true for me:

The best way to cheer yourself up is to try to cheer somebody else up.

So that's all there is to it for me; I like to be as happy as possible, and a big help to that is making other people happy...

Life is paradoxically coincidental to the ironical tyranny applicable to the unparalleled definition Of reverse entropy.I remember seeing that somewhere, I thought it was particularly relevant here.

Anyway, to me life seems like a nice way to pass the time until . One of the reasons why I haven't killed myself is that I want to see what happens next.
I don't know why we live and, frankly, I don't care. If you want a reason for living make it up yourself, IMHO you can't be wrong. Live [i]your life and live it the way you want to live it.

About athletes: they have a right to live too, you know... I mean, if they get into a school because of their athletical skills, they should still be able to go to the school if they keep their grades average... Many of the top schools want good athletes to make a name for themselves. I didn't say they should all die, I am just saying that they shouldn't squander the opportunity placed in front of them. By being in the school, they take the place of someone else, who might not ruin the chance to do something good. And yes, my school wants good athletes, but can't we at least get smart athletes? Apparently not...

and there you are wrong. i know much about depression, i had a HUDGE spurt of it a few years ago. i have seen people waste their lives in misery and i have seen death because of depression.
and you are wrong about the whole religion not being a good cure. i know many religious ppl who are happy as a bee. (horrible simile) it can be the right cure if you treat it with reverence and profound respect. though its not for everybody, i can be the answer. you just have to look beyond what you see ;)

and sorry Susipaisti, offence was not intended. religion just may not be your thing.

I don't believe in religion being a cure for depression. (Atheist and proud to be!)

Call me a crazy mofo if you want, but I never gobbled pills to cure my maniaco-depression. I have lived the gloom through and through. These aren't the best years of my life, but at least I have survived. What for, I don't know. But I have survived.

Tipperon, what works for you does *not* work for everyone on the planet. :nono: I never said religion was not a good cure. If it helps you, fine, but please don't expect it to help others. TYVM. Though I do wonder what you define as 'depression'. A topic for another thread I suppose.

I also find it odd that you would apologize to Susipaisti, but not to me or anyone else offended by your remarks. :hmm:

You get born, you live and you die. That's life. - Jo Polniaczek :grin:

Like Ofelix and Feliniod, I disagree with the view that the universe is a closed, coherent, intelligible system, but I find the resulting contingency a cause for lamentation. In consequence of an absence of rational understanding of the universe and the resulting sense of the absurdity in human life; modern humanity has lost the ‘nearness and shelter’1. of Being*; we are no longer at home in the world as primitive man was; truth is no longer revealed; thought is separated from Being and only a favoured few have any hope of recapturing oneness with Being. The spontaneous innocence of the child (and of humanity in its childhood) has been corrupted with the onset of our intellectual separation from Being. As we are unable to return into an authentic communion with true Being I doubt we will ever have a true sense of belonging, and, so, be forever lost.

*Peoples' own consciousness of their place in the world, or of what the world is for them.

1.“Sein und Zeit (1927, trs. As Being and Time, 1962)”. Heideggar, Martin.

Basically, that's saying that the human race has failed. I can't say I disagree.

lol, well sry all. im accually not religious :p i just know alot of them...and tend to read alot of religion based books.

i just wanted to throw a solution into the air and see how you all digest it. just a little while ago i read in a magazine article about somebody who miracuously overcame depression by religion and i was inspired to spread the message. then of course i sat back and wallowed in my heathen-ness.

lol, it was just an idea than sparked of many intresting remarks.

and sorry kuemper and the rest, after susipaisti's message i just skipped the rest and replied. appologies to all.

The human race has failed what? I didn't realise there had been a test. Life is what it is. Deal with it.

Next time, Tipperon, please tell us you got it from a magazine, or at least tell us it worked for you. By stating (and sounding pretty confident about it) that religion is the cure to depression, you are justing asking for angry reactions.

The human race has failed what? I didn't realise there had been a test.Didn't you? The results came out a few weeks ago. Turned out we failed terribly. Infact, we failed by so much that experts are currently lost over how we got as far as we did. Infact, some are even wondering how we even invented fire! Seems we must have cheated in some way to get as far as we have. Copying off others exam papers, prehaps? Or maybe we bribed the umpires with a gold watch? How ever we did it, the tests clearly prove that the human race is a complete and utter failure and that pinguins should really be the dominante speices on the planet.

How ever we did it, the tests clearly prove that the human race is a complete and utter failure and that pinguins should really be the dominante speices on the planet. Actually, it's currently a tie between dolphins and cats. ;)

Pinguins? We definitely failed the spelling test anyway.l

You ask, what is the meaning of life? It's obviously a question that has troubled mankind for a very long time. Is life simply what you make of it, and the meaning of life thus simply what you make of it? Perhaps.

That being said, even if you think you know what the meaning of life is, I would still think that it would be wise to look at some other points of view on the meaning of life, because there is always the chance that you could be wrong, unless you are 100% positive and know from your own experience.

What do the religions say the meaning of life is? In very general terms, I would say that most religions consider the 'point' of life to be to find your salvation and eventually return to the source of being or whatever you want to call it (heaven). And here is where my opinion enters: what if all religions are preaching the same thing at their most fundamental level? What if, all cosmetics aside, every religion is essentially teaching the same universal path to salvation that has become wrapped up in metaphors and symbols within the religion so that only those with the utmost diligence can find it, and so that ordinary people who don't want to find this path won't deface it?

Ok, well for me, i think the answer to these questions is a big YES. My way of thinking is what is now known as modern gnosticism. The main idea with it is to not believe anything, but to reach enlightenment yourself, gaining knowledge from experience. There are some empirical guidelines and methods to do this, but these are not to be taken for face value, you're supposed to find out for yourself whether they work.
For a free online book dealing with life's big questions, go here: http://www.gnosticweb.com/documents/EN_Revolutionary_Psychology.pdf
seriously, it seems really wierd at first but read the first few chapters at least. i was amazed when i first read it. there's also way more about it on that website.

Ok, so that's my take on life. I'm sorry if I sound really preachy or have offended anyone at all. That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

-Phone Tools

Pinguins? We definitely failed the spelling test anyway.Hey, it was 4pm! I was tired... Well, not really. I can't spell. I was thinking of going with chickens, because that one I can spell, but it didn't have the same ring to it.

Anyway, just to get a bit back on topic, I can't honestly agree that there is no meaning to life, nor that we shouldn't think about it. I actaully think Felinoid is onto something with his last post. Prehaps, just prehaps, our true meaning in life is to serve the cats?

Apologies if I have insulted anyone with my last two posts....

Actually Fel the Dolphins have it they sent us a nice trophy saying 'So long and thanks for all the fish' :)

The problem I find with life is not in the meaning but in the living. No matter how much I'd like to think otherwise I'm a small blob of protoplasm in an expanding universe and I really don't mean much to that universe. I came to grips with most of that a long time ago without the crutch of a belief system. For me personally (and it may well be a delusion, but it ain't broke so why fix it) it's a case of s*** happens, you deal with it and move on; the trick seems to be keep moving, keep learning, keep trying. It's when we stop that trouble always ensues I find.

This is my life, I live by my rules it doesn't and probably won't work for other people, that's the sad part there is no universal panacea for this question but find your own answer or borrow someone else's if it works for you.

the meaning of me:
live my life as i wan't to, do what a feel like

meaning of the human race:
none, the human race is a mere footnote in the book of the universe, wich will never be read by anyone

Prehaps, just prehaps, our true meaning in life is to serve the cats? :mommy: Ah nuts, they're on to us. Quickly, to the Catcave! :shake:

$.02:
Life is.

WOA hold your horse! Humans didn't failed the ''life'' What's this ****? Life can't be failed nor can it be passed. It's just life, why bother with that crap? '' Why is the sky blue'' Well, ''because it's blue, that's all '' What is life? Life is Life.

The disciple; hey must've been though my sister has the same mental disease and man sometimes it ain't easy seeing her.

Life for me at least is a continuous hunt of my dreams.
I just go by the moto "pan metro ariston"
That means everything has a limit, to give its true meaning.
For me life is just a not a constant pursue of happiness but the evergoing process of learning (even through mistakes and painfull moments) and enjoying every lesson.
I try to be true to myself and to others and whenever i fell to sleep at night i want to have no guilt for anything i did. That is what life is for me.

Forty-two.

There is no secret formula, no 'one way' you should live. Find what makes you happy, then do it (unless you're kuemper -- girl, you need help ... felonies :) ).

If you live for the weekend, get a job that will pay for your habits.

If your work is part of your happiness, make sure you keep it that way (don't get caught up in what others think you need to do).

If family makes you happy, don't allow work to interfere.

If religion is key to your life, live your religion.

I only really believe in one rule -- basically, the golden rule -- harm no one (with the corollary 'unless they deserve it').

I can't help but think that my life would be somehow empty even if I get a good job and make money and spend my weekends playing the latest computer game. Personally, I just think that life on the monetary and aesthetical level would be gratifying, yes, but satisfying or fulfilling? I wouldn't think so. This is because I believe that humans aren't amoebas or robots; hasn't someone said that the mystery of humanity lies not only in how man manages to live, but what man lives for?

why are we here?
what do we live for?
i dont think we will ever figure that out. it will most likely be THE question that mankind will work on for the rest of his days.

"Thank for all the fish"...lmao i love that

why are we here?
what do we live for?
i dont think we will ever figure that out. it will most likely be THE question that mankind will work on for the rest of his days. And probably the best argument for going out and finding something to live for, whether it's your studies, your family, your partner, your kids, your job, your religion or something else. Just don't **** up someone else's life in the process and we'll all get along fine. If, at the end of your days, all you've done is chase a question that may or may not exist, then what's the freakin' point?

Like Bruno said, find something that makes you happy, then set about achieving it. For your own sake, though, don't let it blind you to everything else around you, and remember that things can always change in ways you'd never expect.

Ive just read through all of this topic, every post and reaction to what people have said, and there is one thing i find very surprising. This being the simpe fact that one idea,albeit of controvercial nature, put foreward scared a select few of you posting on this topic.

This is in regards to "tipperon's" post about religion being a cure to depression. And I'm going to be the first to second his opinion. Now just sit down and read the rest of this before you start the unnessesary flaming, that niether of us care about considering we know not who the other is or where they live.

Religion when Taken in centext, yes does sound "hokey" and unbelieveable. Now take it for what it's meant to be taken as. Stick up for your fellow man, do whats right, and be happy with what you have. Are these messages to be scared of? thought not.

I have much more to say but I'm in a computer class and have to get back to work.

more from me later

1. How old are you ? If you're out of your teens I'll be surprised.
2. Do you know what clinical depression is ? Which is what we've been talking about.
3. Do you have firsthand knowledge and experience of dealing with anyone who has clinical depression or worse manic depression ?
4. Have you ever visited or worked in a mental institutional facility and met the extreme cases of depression ?
5. Has one of your friends felt so bad and unable to talk about it that they've taken their own life. ?

Tarnesh you make a few good points, but as the horde of messages assulting my meager post said: depression is more. Not that I totally agree with how deep they beleive depression really runs in a human being. I still think they all agree that the world I moving quickly away from Gods teachings. it is old tradition in a new and fast changing world.

And i dont want any comments on my depression opinion till we're done with that of Tarnesh

Your five questions make excellent points, DarkStrider. Living, or dealing with someone with a clinical depression, or worst, manic depression is extremely difficult. While I never knew anyone who took it's own life as a result of a depression/manic, I have no trouble believing it can actually happen. I had a manic depress, and it was difficult beyond words.

@Ofelix: Your sister lived this? Then you are well placed to know how difficult it is.

Why is the sky blue'' Well, ''because it's blue, that's all Actually, its blue because the visible light spectrum shines through the air particles, where the 'blue' wavelengths (shorter ones) are absorbed by the gases in the air and then reflected all around, giving off a blue color. For more details, go to this web site (http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html). Not to burst your bubble, or anything, but the sky is blue for a reason :) .


And to quote Our Lady Peace:

"Life is waiting for you,
It's so messed up, but we're alive.
Oh, life is waiting for you,
It's so messed up, but we'll survive."


Whatever the meaning of life is, we'll make it through.

That's all well and good, but WHY does a shorter wavelength give off a blue colour?

You haven't really gotten to the real heart of the "why is the sky blue?" question.

Isn't it due to the different chemicals in our atmosphere? No idea really, I'm just taking an educated stab in the dark... so a stab in the not so dark.

so a stab in the not so dark. Twilight perhaps?

Did you check out the website?

answers to previous questions about myeslf (that i can remember without going back to the thread to look at the questions)

yes I am a teenager
yes i know what clinical depression is
no i have never worked in a institution, or however you stated it.
and yes i have known someone well, that took and/or made an attempt on there life beuase of depression.

To clear up the facts a little bit:
I was not talkin about "clinical" depression. I was talking about "depression" in general. You can very well be depressed, yet funtion normal on a day to day, moment to moment basis. all depression, actual depression, yes,is a chemical imbalance. However there are people who force this own depression on themselves, possibly because of something that has happened. (ie. somebody dies in a car accident, and there closest friend becomes deeply traumatized by this event, beucause of thier disposition to it, and how they've learned to take these events emotionally) The mind is an incredibally powerful thing, and I would say that if you can fully harness the power of your mind, their is nothing you cant do, or overcome. depression included. For instance, and this came from a news reoport of a antibiotic company in the states (however the state eludes me at the moment): 15 test subjects had the same health problem. (info not released as to what this was, other than it was some strain of influenza) each were given 2 pills a day for 1 week. At the end of this week, 6 people were feeling completely fine, and tests concluded that they were completely healthy. the remaining 9 were still nautious and bedridden. The Catch : the test subjects had all been given placebo's.

Now, this proves that if the mind is so strongly set toward something, obviously there is great power, and potenial here. Aside from all the "scientific" fact that this could never happen. people were cured by placebo's. and I dont believe sugar pills are a cure for the flue, there was most definatly some higher power at work. weather it be the almighty, or the almighty mind with which we percieve everything that happens to us on a daily basis. Thus is life. You create your own world, and the people around you shape it, however YOU let them. And depression clinical or not, is essentialy those with notihng to believe in, believing so strongly that they need help, as to make themselves a physical embodyment of that need.

and next time anyone decides to attack my "age" because of how you read a something posted by me, think, if only for a second; why does age matter? when clearly its about experience, and how you have learend from your experiences that will shape your life. Perhaps I havent had as many experiences in the "real world" but if you were to live my life, you would be as hopelessly screwed as if i were to live yours.

Depression is only an emotion; your emotions are changed by your experiences in your life. Things that make you depressed are calculated through that mush that is your brain and converted into what you think is an appropriate emotion. In that case depression only becomes an illusion in which you see you surroundings. The inability to conquer depression is what is commonly referred to as weakness. I think those who are always depressed and do stupid things like slit their wrist are just weak human beings. They need to be slapped and brought back into the reality of life. Depressed people are solely concerned with their emotions whether they admit it or not. They need to tune into what other people feel. If they think there is nothing left to live for then they have fallen into a delusional state that doesn't allow reason. I am sick of depressed people always talking about how their life sucks (IF ITS THAT BAD THEN STOP COMPLAINING AND FIX IT!!! YOU ARE NEVER POWERLESS!!).

thank you tipperon. This is exactly "if not a little bluntly" what i was trying to get across

I take VERY serious offense to that. Depressed people are weak?!? Dig *THIS*: I faced a *manic depression* WITHOUT any medication *at all*. It was difficult beyond words, yet I have pulled it off! And you dare to call me *WEAK*! Have *YOU* ever been through a manic depression? Do *YOU* have even the slightest idea what living with a manic depression is like?!?

I have to cast off... I shall do a follow-up to this post as soon as I can. This isn't over.

Alas, age does matter, for generally, people who have gone to college know a lot more than people who haven't finished high school.


Placebos have been used in many, many tests to prove that the sickness is only a state of mind. Your example of influenza, however, is not related to depression (excpet for the fact that they are both medical conditions), and thus is not as weighted as if you gave us an example involved with clinically depressed people coming out of their depression using placebos.

In any case, by telling use that you think a higher power was at work doesn't furthur this debate. By telling us (or agreeing with) that the cure for depression is religion, and then backing it up (with an opinion, not proof) by saying "there was most definatly a higher power at work," you are just digging yourself deeper into a hole. Please back things up with proof, not unjustifiable opinions.


And Ofelix: I wasn't trying to tell you you were wrong, I was just pointing out that your example was not a very good one...

dude, the fact that you pulled out is what shows your not weak. its those who can't, who live their whole lives in depression who are the weak ones. I cannot and will not pity or show remorse for those stupid enough to take their own life. Suicide is for the cowerdly or the weak. And self mutilation is something a lunitic would do. no sane person massacres their own body just to make them feel better.

Saber, honestly, your picking apart my phrasing? c'mon really.

I know the point Im attempting to get across as much as you know what it is, I can tell you are smart, for I have read your other posts and your words are wise. I just completely disagree with the idea that "life" (including depression) is beyond our ability to manipulate greatly. I am also fed up with people tearing apart, catholics, and religous people in general. Obviously I am very religous, and my opinion is biased, I dont argue that. Just try and be open to what I mean, and not how it is typed. Ive learned alot from you, and others in posting here, knowledge that will serve me well, no doubt, later on.

so no harm, no foul alright. we're both deadset in our beliefs, but I'm not completely disregarding what you say, I'm learning from it, and shaping my view of the world around it. If you as much older than myself as your making yourself out to be, grow up.

How did this turn into a depressive-bashing thread? :confused: I thought it was about "Life..." :shame:

I was under the same assumption....and take part fault for the way things have gone. But I am invigorated at where this post is going "through all the meaningless slandering" very intersting opinons are developing

Right then. The board is even. But a question: what did you mean by your last sentence? You want me to grow up...?

And by the way, picking apart peoples phrasing until they get it so we can understand perfecly is what we do in AoDA (or end up doing, if it wasn't our intentions).


Tipperon:
its those who can't, who live their whole lives in depression who are the weak ones. I cannot and will not pity or show remorse for those stupid enough to take their own life. Suicide is for the cowerdly or the weak. And self mutilation is something a lunitic would do. no sane person massacres their own body just to make them feel better. What about those who cannot 'pull out of it', as you like to say? I know someone who watched her cousin die right in front of her eyes, and she cannot help but being depressed. It is not her fault, and although she tries very hard, it is very difficult for her. You think she is weak despite the fact that she tries? People like her don't need your pity, either, they need your help. And if you refuse to help her, shame on you. Someone in a condition that could end up taking their life, or one that just makes them sad (depressed, if you will) most likely needs help, and if you won't help them, or at least care, shame on you.

Now, I realize you did not actually say that you wouldn't help them, but the way that you speak (no pity, no remorse, etc) implies that you would not help.

EDIT: Wow, I did not see Tipp's post on page 3 (second to last post), and now that I just saw it, I am even more apalled than before. You are truly a sad, sad, person. I am with DotW, Tipperon. I leave you with this message: The people who mock people in need of help are the truly weak. You are weak, tipperon.

Oh I would like to help if I could, but most of them push you away. I think wastes of human life is sad. When a person throws away their life they can never see or do many of the beutiful things in this world. After their gone however I cannot feel for them. They are beyond help and I think they were stupid to put themselves there.

There is a human being behind these post Saber.

EDIT: here we go, this is why I love these discussions: You are truly a sad, sad, person. I am with DotW, Tipperon. I leave you with this message: The people who mock people in need of help are the truly weak. You are weak, tipperon. That is quite an opinion Saber; however, I'll have to disagree with you. I do not mock people who are in need of help. I just find it disturbing when people claim they "are too far gone." They push away all the possible friends they could have and wallow in they're misery. In the face of an extremly depressed person I would lend a hand but only once. If they fail to receive help they are on their own.

@tarnish:
Why don't you make another topic to continue this :yot: discussion if it really 'invigorates' you so much?

@Saber:
If you're really so appalled, go tell a mod and get them to do something. (I assume you know how to link.) Calling someone weak will just lead to flaming, especially if it's someone so desperate to prove that they're not.

They do not necessarily put themselves there. Depression is an illness, a sickness, a medical condition, or whatever else you wish to call it. The situations around them (and I do not use 'them' as a term of alienation) are factors in the change of health. If the situations traumatizes them, it is not their fault, unless you blame someone for being in the wrong place at the right time. Their body reacts to that situation in a negative way (if they are traumatized, of course), and they cannot simply "choose" for their body to return to normal.

Tipperon, as a side question, how old are you? I will not use it against you, by the way. But a suggestion: despite your age, I suggest doing some reading on depression, or find people who are involved with depression and ask them about it (not necessarily the depressed, but perhaps their friends, family, and others who are concerned with them).


EDIT: If you're really so appalled, go tell a mod and get them to do something. (I assume you know how to link.) Calling someone weak will just lead to flaming, especially if it's someone so desparate to prove that they're not. Sorry, I do not mean to start flaming. And if I did go to a mod, I doubt they would do anything (not saying they are incompetent), for they cannot warn him for stating his opinions, even if I disagree. Or can they? Let me check...

[ November 04, 2005, 05:08: Message edited by: Saber ]

Here we go again with the age thing...
Does it matter? Age does not always bring wisdom. For all you know I might be 65.

And lets stop this chewing each other out. This is about opinion not about the people behind them.

And about the being bone with it. If its depression that has come to a person. Say an event in their life or the conditions they live in. It is a case of mind over matter. Change what makes you depressed or (in the case it was say the death of a friend) move on.

If you want to talk about a medical condition (say depression is the only emotion the person body can generate) then thats a different matter. Generic depression cannot be helped. God save the souls of those who have it.

For many, it is impossible to move on. The person who died may be too dear/near to their hearts, and they cannot take it. Perhaps for you, it is easier, but that is not true of everyone.

And I was just wondering what your age was, I was not going to say anything else. My advice was universal: anyone of any age could use it...

Ok....enough, this is a topic about *LIFE*, last time I checked depression was a totally different word. You wanna have a battle of opinion on the topic depression? start another post.

To get us back on track, what do you people think aboutthe good stuff in life. Is it really about money, fast cars, and sex? Or is life about having food, shelter and a place to hang your hat? Is the humble man's life for you? Or do you like to play with the high rollers.

Right then. The board is even. But a question: what did you mean by your last sentence? You want me to grow up...?

And by the way, picking apart peoples phrasing until they get it so we can understand perfecly is what we do in AoDA (or end up doing, if it wasn't our intentions).
OK, I admit, I was being very stubborn. which lead me to get slightly annoyed, and thus the "grow up" was just my of retaliating. didn't make much sense eh? i agree.

Anyway were even, and even though there was much dissagreement througout the thread. I quite enjoyed the discussion :D The reason being that I'm far too submissive in person to ever stand up for what I believe in.

thanx "saber" for a deeper/different insight to some very intersting issues.

and tipperon, chill man. :cool:

Friendly moderator here: Read the posts, saw the flames, figure that some of what was said could have been said more diplomatically, also figure that generalization of all depressed people as "weak" is taking things a bit too far. So, with that exposition, please note:

This thread, while ostensibly titled "Life..." also had this bit in the intro post:

So, my dear fellows SPers, what is your opinion on life? Does it have a meaning? Do you like it? Hate it? Do you live it at it's full extent, or do you wait for death?
I think discussions generically about depression might fit into the latter part -- but about your own depression and how it impacts YOUR life. Generic discussions about depression, clinical depression, etc., sure as heck strays too far from the thread topic, so start another one. (And lower the flames a bit, or you'll burn dinner. ;) )

especially if it's someone so desperate to prove that they're not. @Big Cat: Perhaps my point wasn't clear. I am not trying to prove that I'm not weak, I have nothing to prove. Choosing to face a depression/manic depression without medication is harder than bury it under medication; but in the long run, it's worth it.

We should follow dmc's advice and start a thread about depression, but since this is a far more serious topic, it would be better suited in AoDA. See you there.

@DotW:
I wasn't talking about you. :shake:

Life contains nothing, for everything contains life. :roll:

life........is like a box of chocolates. Not because you don't know what you are going to get next, but because life can be sweet and good.
And as for depression, well just don't follow that scientology stuff that Tom Cruz talks about, he can't even read.

come to think of it, you can make just about any analogy about life, about anything :p

life is like pie. on the out side it might seem brown and crusty but deep down the is the soft tasty filling.

im hungry

When you're sitting down after a hard week's work with your family, just talking about the week and what's going on in everyone's life, that's what it's all about. I don't care about the higher meaning of life and purpose for everything -- I love my wife and kids and that's where it's at.

As Harbourboy said there: "Life is what you make of it."

I've learned a lot about it in the past year, I believe. Last february I quit my steady job and became a temporary worker instead. I've done like 2 days a month since, draining on my savings (aside from the 2 months in summer I was working steadily). The idea was to get more time for studying. As every year before, nothing came of it.

It went to the point where after years of trying and praying and asking and hoping, and seeing no positive results at all, I had to admit the inevitable to myself. There is no God, there is no hope. Nobody will never ever pull you up when you fall, and there's not a goddamn nice thing in life *unless* you make it yourself. If you can't, well... I'm sure I don't have to say it.

Teenage angst is an annoying thing. But there's a difference when you're 24, and since 18 all you've done is failed, failed, failed, failed and failed in whatever it is you've been trying to do. Mainly because you just don't care enough about any of it. That's not some random trendy angst, it's something that comes from very sad experience of life. These days the only thing I can take any pride of is the fact that my English still sounds and looks ok.

I think perhaps one of the biggest problems in modern day is not depression, it's the way people view the world. I mean I'm not depressed, I've been that and I know damn well this is not it. I have my happy moments and most of the time I can ignore everything in a happy bliss. What I, and an increasing amount of people I know have, is the lack of any interesting goals in life.

What is there to work for, I mean really if you stop and think about it what the heck is the point? More money? Yeah like that helps, I've been enjoying this time with far less money and waaahhaaay more time far more than the situation I had before. Love? Like you can work for something based entirely on luck and legends, and even then comes with a huge amount of problems of their own. Life isn't frigging hollywood, if you're lucky you'll get a few short relationships and that's it. Hobbies? Since when were hobbies about working anyway?

I think that on a larger scale, some people are just meant to be like this. Call us a sort of backup made by evolution in case something bad happens, or something. Dormant sleepers who cannot function in this world, but may be far more effective in other circumstances. Some people happily study, work, and live the dream of a life that was forced into their heads since they were children. And when something goes terribly wrong, they panic, break down and become next to useless or die.

Too bad if this is the case, nobody ever asked us.

So here I am, exactly the way I have made myself. Ever a dreamer, with vivid imagination, some faith and lots of hope. And now with most of that lost, there's absolutely nothing I've aquired to make up for it.

I need a chrisis, something bigger than myself to make all of this feel worthwhile. Death is not a chrisis, it's a release even if I feel the natural fear any human should toward it. Right now, life feels like an unfinished game, where at the age of understanding you just run out of things to do.

*Sigh* stream of consciousness again.

Currently I've two solutions to this which I'm going to try out. Something extreme and dangerous, enough to draw me away form the intellectual level to the instinctual. As a human I still have my animal feelings and emotions, and living with them would certainly spice things up to the point of making ignoring all wondering about life's purpose completely possible. The other, the one I'm going for first, is simply accepting things as they are and working towards whatever I deem the most interesting of all these highly uninteresting things in life. I will try to adapt the attitude one of my friends has, systematically building up whatever I believe needs fixing in my life, almost as if led by some computer.

Afterall, since there's absolutely nothing *realistically* achievable left before death... why not do whatever you damn well please? I've been down the other road and I know precisely where that leads.

I hope you all enjoy your lives, most of the time. It's a good thing to be able to do that. Sorry for the "angst", this board has way too much of it on accounts of some people anyway.

*Edit:*

Oh and concerning the "depressed people are weak" issue, I absolutely agree. Of course there are exceptions, I'm not a psychologist so that's about all I can say about that, but this trendy depression thing has gotten way out of hand.

But there is the other side to the story. What if some people aren't really depressed? What if some are just too introvert, too clearheaded and intelligent to see things for what they are? What if the priorities of some people are not set as low as they are with others? If you had to lead the life of a snail with your intellect and knowledge, would you consider yourself weak when you had to admit to yourself that you hated a life like that?

In regards to those who complain and bring out their "depression" in everything they do, I can agree it's just trendy questing for attention. Still, someone who's had the luck of good friends, family etc supporting them their entire lives, can hardly be called "strong" either. In this case they're just lucky they never had to work for everything on their own for years in a row with no real support from anywhere, only to achieve nothing. Some depressed people really have been in that situation.

In a peanutshell: depression has suffered from a form of inflation where a real problem has become a trend, so much sp that now even those who really have problems aren't taken seriously.

Like I said I don't even believe I'm suffering from depression. I damn well know I'm weak-willed unless my strongest princibles are questioned, but I don't really see a purpose to any of it either. I'd never take meds for something I don't believe in though. :)

[ November 05, 2005, 14:55: Message edited by: Foradasthar ]

:eek: wow

very wow. I wouldnt have thought the topic "life" could be summed up in 1 post :eek:

i don't want to do a whole philosophical thing so this is my take on the whole "meaning of life" thing:

It has the meaning that I choose to give it. I wont bother worrying about my "purpose" or any of that crap. I'll happily grope around in the dark and find my own way, thanks very much. Besides, it's fun. And I know I've got it much better than a whole lot of others so I don't want to spend time complaining if I can avoid it. And whatever any of us has got is probably a hell of a lot better than never existing in the first place, eh? ;) :p

The meaning of life is reproduction. It's subconscious. All our actions are set on this goal. The survival of the species homo sapiens.

Very good point, Fabius. Everything revolves around reproduction. I couldn't have said it beter. MAH-velous.

Just because a species needs to reproduce doesn't make reproduction the only meaning of the species. For example, to ensure survival of large mammals (like us), the young need to be nurtured, families and societies have to be made, and so on. Human beings (and baboons and hyenas and whales) aren't amoebas or cockroaches. Eating food and having sex alone will niether satisfy us nor ensure survival.

Well, it would if humans did it exclusively. However, that would relegate them to pure prey or breeding animals, and neither is a terribly favorable state of affairs. ;)

No, it wouldn't. I'm still talking about the fact that before civilization, homo sapiens and its predecessors gathered in groups, instead of living by themselves and finding a pretty woman or handsome man when they had the time. A caveman couldn't take a mammoth down by himself, and primates are naturally found in groups. In ideal environments? Sure, eating and having sex will pass on your genes. In the environmental that your caveman ancestors came from? Uh-uh.

Groups are far different than families and societies. Herding is necessary for low-birth animals like primates, equines, bovines, etc. But societal structure is a superfluous to survival.

The simple fact is that humans got too good at just surviving and needed more to keep themselves busy and improve their lot: society, language, tools, etc. Most of what humans do is not strictly necessary, but fun nonetheless.

Societal structure might be superfluous in the modern world, with all its conveniences. But on the big scale, where cities and cars and even agriculture are but a blip on the evolutionary radar, societal structure is necessary. Cavemen couldn't take down mammoths by themselves. There was too much work - hunting and gathering and fending off wild predators - to not live in groups.

Given that there's a biological basis for things like language and visuospatial skill, it makes sense that such things would be necessary. Evolution would have weeded such things out if they weren't. Consider that chimps can use tools, live in hierarchical societies, and show ideas such as self-recognition.

As for herding, lots of mammals show a structure complex than a big group of animals looking for grass. Wolves show the alpha-beta-omega hierarchy, gorillas make harems out of the females, prides of lions show dominance by the head male lion, etc.

To say that the entire species is set only on reproduction is a bit misleading. If there is a biological gene for self-sacrifice, for example, then it might be beneficial to the species, since one individual who dies protecting four of his children or four of his siblings ensures his genes' survival, since his children and siblings are 50% genetically similar to that individual.

Another example might be extremely societal insects, like ants and bees, some of which don't breed but instead contribute to the overall welfare of their "family", i.e. those who are genetically similar to it. But that is an extreme example.

[ November 07, 2005, 07:38: Message edited by: Oaz ]

I think you're confusing necessary and beneficial. None of the things you listed are necessary for the survival of the species, but they do help. If you look at the species I pointed out, like horses or sheep or cows, you can see that it's not strictly necessary for survival to have a societal structure. Some species function perfectly well as simple groups without rules or reason.

Meanwhile, the ones that you pointed out are all predators; note my other post about "pure prey or breeding animals". It may be very helpful to have society, but it's not strictly necessary to the survival of a species.

Most of the things that humans have is "above and beyond" simple survival and reproduction, and I'm at a loss as to why you suddenly switched sides when I agreed with you. :nuts:

No, no, no.

Human evolution (there's that word again. :p ) started to make survival easier. We just never stopped.

If you look at the species I pointed out, like horses or sheep or cows, you can see that it's not strictly necessary for survival to have a societal structure. Some species function perfectly well as simple groups without rules or reason.Ah, all these herd animals do have a social structure. It's very basic, but there are ranks in these herds.
Look at elephants. The males are loners. But the females form herds to protect the young. And the oldest female is the leader.

I agree with Fabius.

I think it's a mistake to ask "what's the meaning of life?" and not include ALL life on the planet, not just human life.

The may fly is a great example of what life is all about: these little bugs are born and set out immediately trying to find a mate. They only live about one day so if they don't mate they die. If they do get lucky, they die immediately afterwards. They have no mouths because they don't eat! Who needs to eat when you only live a day?

So how about asking "what is the meaning of a may fly's life?" If there is a creator, why did She create may flies?

I think it boils down to our DNA. Essentially all life on earth today comes from the same basic DNA that emerged 1 billion years ago. That particular strain of DNA had as its sole purpose the desire to make copies of itself.

Perhaps there were other versions of DNA 1 billion years ago, swimming about in the primoridial soup, but those versions had as their main goal the desire to spin in circles; to write poetry; to worship a rock, etc.

The universe is a harsh, brutal place to try and live. So if your DNA says "write poetry!" or "spin in circles" then you will die. And those versions of DNA died off 1 billion years ago. The only survivor, thanks to this harsh universe we happen to find ourselves in, was the DNA that said "make copies of myself no matter what!!!"

As a result, all life on earth today, from may flies to humans, has at its very core the single-minded desire to reproduce. Everything else is just stuff we dreamed up in our oversized brains.

Human evolution (there's that word again.) started to make survival easier. We just never stopped. Well, actually - ever since we started developing technology (specifically anything that permits an otherwise 'weak' member of the species, one that would not live long enough to breed, to continue its presence in the gene pool) biological evolution has been stymied.

Of course technological evolution is 'improving the species', but for a noticable period, homo sapiens sapiens has been evolving by means not available to other species...

Well, actually - ever since we started developing technology (specifically anything that permits an otherwise 'weak' member of the species, one that would not live long enough to breed, to continue its presence in the gene pool) biological evolution has been stymied.

Of course technological evolution is 'improving the species', but for a noticable period, homo sapiens sapiens has been evolving by means not available to other species...Right. I used evolution in a broader way.

But "how?" is not the question here. It's "why?".

So, my dear fellows SPers, what is your opinion on life? Does it have a meaning? Do you like it? Hate it? Do you live it at it's full extent, or do you wait for death?
Generally, I like my life. I have a very loving and caring partner, I have loving and close-bonded families, I have an extremely affectionate dog (and it's amazing how much his smiling grin when I get through the door will lift my mood after a bad day at work).
My job is OK, maybe not as interesting as one I could have got but I needed to get out of London for a bit and saving 1.5 hours of commuting a day has certainly improved my outlook (the extra money comes in handy as well)
I earn enough so I can afford what I want, though as it happens I really don't spend all that much anyway. We own our own home and are gradually getting it to the way we want it. My health is generally good, and I'm not stressed.

I don't think my life has a meaning, but I don't think I need it to have one. I don't live it at it's "full" extent (except the last two weeks), but then I'm happy living it at the level I do. Probably boring to many, but the way I like it.

Edit

I understood the context in the original question to be someones personal outlook of "life". In my own outlook, procreation has absolutely no part to play which I am fervently glad to say.

[ November 09, 2005, 22:49: Message edited by: Carcaroth ]

1. Reading books;
2. Listening to music as I'm listening Beatles;
3. Drumming as a hobby;
4. Following Toynbee as a high-flyer.