Yes I am talking about Christmas!

The last time I was in the States, I noticed that it was offensive to use Christmas. In Pittsburgh, it was called 'The Sparkle Season' and when I had a job in customer care I could not say 'Happy Christmas', but I could say 'Happy Holidays'. Of course 'off duty' it was okay to use the 'c-word' as much as I like without causeing offense, but why are companies so reluctant to use it? Have you ever met anyone that actually taken offense to this?

Well first of all, here in the states we say "Merry Christmas" not "Happy Christmas", but I get your point. Basically, it's become very un-PC to use the term Christmas, which is strange. To my knowledge, the vast majority of Americans would still classify themselves as Christians, so it's not like you're offending any large portion of potential customers. Still, most stores will take the attitude that every shopper counts, and you don't want to turn off a potential buyer.

The term Happy Holidays also ecompasses Channuka (sp?), the Russian Christmans - some time in early January - and New Year's Day, which presumably is non-demoniational and everyone celebrates it. I, for one, cannot make any sense of it. Even if you don't out-right say it, it's no mystery that the reason all of these stores have sales on all their items is because a lot of customers are buying Chirstmas presents, so it's for face-value only.

I also have to admit, that when I first read the title of your post, I thought the "C-word" was referencing the one sure-fire word that when you say it would earn you a back-hand from any woman in your vicinity.

:eek: The world is going nuts :nuts: Firts they set up X-mas decorations in late October and then...
:lol:

The primary schools round here (might be elementary schools to some people) aren't allowed to do the nativity, have a christmas tree or celebrate in any way unless it's a catholic or C of E school.

One of my best mates is muslim, another a Buddist and they LOVED christmas stuff at school because it was a big novelty for them

We wish you a Merry Christmas, a Happy Channukah, a kwaaaaazy Kwanza, and a solemn, dignified Ramadan. Goodnight everybody! - Krusty Kristmas Special :lol:

I hate the way that Americans seem to be no longer allowed to use the word 'Christmas'. How ridiculous.

I think it should be equal for all, at nursery school my son is learning about Ramadan, Diwali and Christmas at the same time

This is moronic. Chistmas is not some ploy to convert people to christians, and therefore it shouldnt be offensive to anyone. I hate this "oh-but-we-musn't-risk-offending-anyone" crap almost as much as when it is deliberately offensive. Why cant you wish someone a happy christmas? Even if they dont celebrate it they probably get one or two days off, which is a cause for joy.

It doesn't matter if the original meaning of the word Christmas was religious. We'd probably find that 100s of words have religious origins. Doesn't mean we have to get rid of every one of them. The word Christmas means different things to different people now. I for one will continue to use the word freely. :p

Haha, I wouldn't worry about it too much: everything these days is un-PC (a slight exaggeration). I agree it is stupid, as most of my Jewish friends don't give a crap, and I am sure that many (not most or all) don't care either.

Stupid Political Correctness...

It's not really Americans in general. It's the public places and merchants. And for both, the reason seems to be that a minority of people are capable of raising a big stink over nonsense like that.

In NZ, we don't seem to have the same fear of the word Christmas.

Huh. I haven't run into anyone pitching a fit about 'Christmas'. I say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays if I'm sending a card since it might not get where it's going until after New Year's.

I'm sure people still complain if they don't get December 25th off from work, regardless of their religion. :lol: ;)

It's all about being PC and crap. [Eek!] The world is going nuts [messed up in the head] Firts they set up X-mas decorations in late October and then...
[laughing out loud]
I can't stand that term. I know it's commonly accepted, and maybe I'm over-sensitive to it, but I find taking "Christ" out of "Christmas" is offensive and misses the entire point of the holiday.

I don't get offended if somebody says, "Happy Kwanzaa" or "Happy Channukkah" around me, and I don't think they should be offended if I say, "Merry Christmas."

"Happy Holidays" slights each one of them, IMHO.

That time of the year again? Guess I have to bugger and go to the capital then for the mandatory once-every-year visit to the parents house. At least I get to travel this way and eat enough sweets to last for a few days. :D

Other than that, I hardly care for it and hardly even notice those other days... whatever they are...

We don't have that problem, we say "Feliz Navidad" (Happy Navidad).
So, at New Year's, if you have a jewish friend, you won't say to him "happy new year"?

I hate the way that Americans seem to be no longer allowed to use the word 'Christmas'. How ridiculous. Welcome to corporate political correctness. :rolleyes:
If they don't word their greetings just right, and to OSHA specifications, they will surely be sued sooner or later. :rolleyes: It's sad but true. :rolling:

I don't celebrate christmas, I celebrate my own holiday called "gift giving day" which coincidentally falls on the same day as christmas.

I can't stand that term. I know it's commonly accepted, and maybe I'm over-sensitive to it, but I find taking "Christ" out of "Christmas" is offensive and misses the entire point of the holiday.Actually, Klorox, you might already know this, but the early Christians used the symbol X (Greek "Chi") for Christ. I knew an athiest who always made a point of using X-mas just to be offensive. When I told him the original meaning of the term, it took the wind out of his sails. ;)

I know what you mean though -- it can be a little upsetting to see how uptight people can get around this time of year. Those who aren't Christians cannot understand why we feel the way we do about the Lord.

I hate "Xmas". I think it's just lazy for people who can't be bothered to write the whole word. I put it in the same bucket as people who miss out all the vowels when sending text messages on their mobile phones.

Would you rather I call it 'Happy Birthday, Jesus Christ'? :angel: ;)

I hate "Xmas". I think it's just lazy for people who can't be bothered to write the whole word.@HB: Pot, this is the Kettle. You're black. :hahaerr: :lol:

:yot: When I see the title of this thread, I keep thinking to myself, Cucumbers? What's wrong with cucumbers?

@HB: Pot, this is the Kettle. You're black. What is that supposed to mean? I've spent years crusading against the sloppy use of the English language.

I stand behind Acrux. The letter 'X' is symbolic of Christ...So X-mas is still 'Christ'-mas. :) :rolling:

@HB - It refers to 'the pot calling the kettle black', which means you're doing the thing you dislike other people doing. It was a joke to your use of Xmas, then saying you hate it when people use Xmas instead of writing/typing out the whole word. Sorry that it went over your head. Just trying to keep the funny in. :happy:

So does anybody really understand why X-mas shopping starts in early October. You shouldn't be hearing about Cristmas specials untill after Rememberace day.

Actually, Klorox, you might already know this, but the early Christians used the symbol X (Greek "Chi") for Christ. I knew an athiest who always made a point of using X-mas just to be offensive. When I told him the original meaning of the term, it took the wind out of his sails. [Wink] Didn't know that, but you just made me feel better. :)
Would you rather I call it 'Happy Birthday, Jesus Christ'? [angel] [Wink]
I actually sing "Happy Birthday" at dessert on Christmas Day. :)

Tipperon, it's all about stores wanting us to spend money. Besides, all the presents we buy early means that if we don't have family obligations on the 24th we can go to the mall and point and laugh at people that haven't got their shopping done yet...

It's the same over here now, the PC brigade want the word banned. It will always be Christmas to me though.

Shocking ain't it. Apparently in England one of the banks stopped using, promoting and selling 'Piggy Banks' on the basis that it may be offensive to some religions.

What religion is a Piggy Bank offensive towards?

the Russian Christmans - some time in early January - Russian Christmans is in the same day as yours. Only the calendar is different. ;)
Anyway, it is indeed stupid and pitiful to have come to this point wherein people "are not allowed" to wish Merry Christmans. I have some pals in the US, and that is exactly what they have told me, so this is nothing new to me.

I'm sure people still complain if they don't get December 25th off from work I think people without small children should be made to work Christmas day, provided they get New Year's Eve off to celebrate. My dad worked every Christmas bar one for 22 years (my life) and it was never the same without him there. Now my fiance has to work Christmas morning on our very first Christmas together with our son, and I feel like we will all be missing out. Especially since the other two people he works with both have the day off and freely admit that they will both sit at home and get drunk while being depressed (they are both single with no kids)

I agree, Shell. We just implemented a similar strategy at my job, as they don't close hospitals during the holidays.

Anyway, I pulled Christmas this year, and even though I don't have kids yet, I am a religious man and don't like the idea of working this day. Of course, Christmas falls on a Sunday this year, so the Holiday is observed on a Monday, and I get off scot-free! YAY!

@Saber:

What religion is a Piggy Bank offensive towards?Muslims for one, since the pig is an unclean animal according to the Quran.

To the original topic: How many people do you offend by prohibiting the use of the word "Christmas" in order to not offend the minorities? Hasn't "Political Correctness" begun to look eerily like censorship?

Oh - enjoy this one: :)

http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/dmredish/wwwMLRF/links/Humor/PC_Song

Muslims for one, since the pig is an unclean animal according to the Quran. IIRC, the Jewish faith also holds that belief.

RE: the PC song
That's supposed to be humor? It's not so funny when you're living it. :grr:

But you're not eating the piggy bank, you're storing money in it... and money is already one of the dirtiest things around.

And it's not censorship; it's a business/political decision to not alienate members of their clientele/constituency.

I'm going to call it Christmas. If someone doesn't celebrate it, there's no reason whatsoever to wish "happy holidays" any more than you would wish happy summer holidays. Get me a Jew and I will wish him Happy Hanukkah. Give me an Orthodox Christian and I'll wish him Merry Christmas in January. So what's the problem?

I don't like the paranoia that even so frequently causes people to police themselves in order to be more politically correct leading to such a result that they tangle themselves into a schizophrenic net of double speak. Each fancy new denominator lasts only until someone discovers that with enough ill will it could actually be construed as offensive or simply a fancier word is invented. Blaaah.

And it's not censorship; it's a business/political decision to not alienate members of their clientele/constituency.Don't Christians feel alienated if they're not allowed to say "Christmas"?

If the authorities disallow or discourage the expression of any opinion, no matter now vile it may seem to you and me, it is censorship. If the authorities can prohibit use of the C-word, can't they also prohibit use of words like "Easter", "Whitsun", "Hanukkah", "Ramadan", not to mention "Fascism", "Communism", "Conservatism", "Liberalism", or "Libertarianism"? Where do we set the limit, once we've opened Pandora's box?

I think you are confusing the issue. This has nothing to do with discouraging any opinion, nor from interfering in people's private lives. Nobody is prevented/discouraged from saying "Merry Christmas" in their own homes etc.

What this is about is merchants who have clientele that they cater to from all religions do not want to alienate their non-Christian clients by having/saying "Merry Christmas" all over their place of business; and it is apparent that some actually are alienated by such a practice because it would not be an issue otherwise.

The same thing goes for the government and public places. Everyone's taxes go into the upkeep of such public places and the decorations that are placed there during the holidays; some people don't like it that their money is paying for things they don't believe in.

I've never noticed a partiucular problem with folks saying Merry Christmas at their places of business.
Of course, I live in a state where admitting you are not Christian will at best get you pestered and your property vandalized.
Luckily, my county and city are more tolerant than that.

I sent a letter about this to a local paper about 2 years ago. There are always people who are willing to ***** and complain about the stupidest little things, and one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel.

Usually the ones who are making the most noise are not Muslims, Jews, Buddhists or whatever -- in the west I've found that the vast majority of these people don't take offence at other people saying things like "Merry Christmas." The problem arises from secular humanist atheists, who feel that they are being forced, in a small way, to celebrate a religious holiday by even hearing the words "Merry Christmas" -- and these people don't like to be forced! So they try to make a simple pleasantry out to be a violation of their Constitutional Right not to be forced to worship at all.

I think they're pathetic losers attempting to force others to live more like them. I say "Merry Christmas" every chance I get during the holiday season, and if they don't like it, well, tough luck -- if they're going to take offense where obviously none is intended, then nothing I do will stop them from taking that offense.

[Editted for spelling]

[ November 17, 2005, 17:40: Message edited by: LKD ]

early Christians used the symbol X (Greek "Chi") for Christ I'm sure I posted this last year, but I have a friend who is an Anglican vicar, and she says she doesn't mind the X in Xmas. She says that she thinks of it as a big Kiss to Jesus (X-Mas)

I think you're right, LKD. I think these athiests should shut the heck up, and if they don't feel like celebrating any "religious holidays," they should be forced to work the days I consider sacred and have to work. :mad:

It ticks me off when people pull stunts like this. Last year, we had to change the office Christmas party to a "Happy Holidays" party, because even though the vast majority of people there would have been atheists and couldn't have cared less (it was at university), there were three people who decided to be difficult. One was a committed atheist, the second a bacon-loving Jew, and the third was a pagan/Wiccan.

Don't get me wrong, they're all friends of mine; I can remember telling them exactly what I thought of their actions, though. This was especially so because none of them were particularly devoted or devout practitioners, in my opinion.

Just goes to show, NonSequitur, that Australia is Americanising more and more ;)

As HB said, there are no problems with people saying Merry Christmas here, or anything like that. We have christmas tunes all over the TV adds, local shopping centres all decorated, with christmas trees and the likes, even big christmas parades come December, funded by the local government (or whomever). With over 4 out of 10 people (2001 census) offically claiming to hold no religous beliefs, you'd think it much more likely to offend people here than in a place like America, where that figure would be a lot lower (right?). I'm curious, is there much problem with the word Christmas been used over in Europe?

I guess in a way I'm like that, but no way to that extreme. The only thing that I dislike is having angels atop of the trees. Stars are fine, but angels I've never liked. Saying Merry Christmas... well, Christmas is hardly a religous holiday over here, I don't see any problem at all with that.

Isn't the spelling of "christmas" just a derivate of "x-mas", as hallow mass somehow was already occupied with another holiday in English...

It should be hallow even, I think.

Armchair Linguist ? Anglist, where are you ?

Christmas was a holiday created by the Romans to please both Christians and Pagans (tha pagans worshiped Saturn on that time of year). Because of this, Christmas can be viewed as a secular holiday, though I do believe the Pagan roots are stronger than the Christian influences.

Another interesting to look up is the Norse/Celtic celebrations of Yule.

Note to all bible-bashers here, your Christmas carols are old pagan songs.

Because of this, Christmas can be viewed as a secular holiday, though I do believe the Pagan roots are stronger than the Christian influences. Ok, that one I know. It's the 24 of december, 3 days after the 21 of december, winter solstice. And the 21 of december is the shortest day and the longest and scariest night in the year. Seeing the sun coming back from the darkness and days getting longer again, that was probably the reason for a lot of peoples on the northern parts of the northern hemisphere to install a celebration because of the slight chance of warmth coming back. As the sun is already a long time around, most of this celebrations were pre-christian. But I think calling it a winter solstice celebration would not be an universally liked naming either.

For my family, Christmas is purely commercial. My mom's side are Vietnamese, they go to the temple to worship Buddha, they celebrate Vietnamese New Years, and they also believe in reincarnation, so they're always striving to do good in this life. They, also, shamelessly celebrate Christmas. They have the Christmas tree, the red/green/white/gold decorations around their house, and they also host a January 1st New Years party with our whole family.

I cannot possibly fathom why anyone would take offence to the word Christmas. Just like in Canada, the First Nations (I feel so silly saying that), for the most cases, don't take offence to being called an Indian.

I'm not sure what's more annoying: PC folks whining about use of the term "Christmas" or reactionary folks whining about people who whine about use of the term "Christmas."

Yes, political correctness is annoying, but the whole "I'm, like, totally un-PC dude. I'm, like, such a rebel!" is equally annoying -- if not more so.

It has become politically correct to be politically incorrect.

@LKD:

The problem arises from secular humanist atheists, who feel that they are being forced, in a small way, to celebrate a religious holiday by even hearing the words "Merry Christmas" -- and these people don't like to be forced! So they try to make a simple pleasantry out to be a violation of their Constitutional Right not to be forced to worship at all.

I think they're pathetic losers attempting to force others to live more like them. I say "Merry Christmas" every chance I get during the holiday season, and if they don't like it, well, tough luck -- if they're going to take offense where obviously none is intended, then nothing I do will stop them from taking that offense.What morons don't see is that they are thwarting their fellow citizens' constitutional right to worship, as well as their freedom of speech. But they don't really give a damn because they are interested only in their own rights, not rights in general or rights of all people. It's so constipated thinking that I can't stop wondering how those people finish university or even secondary school. Just like children. And children is how I regard them, regardless of their age. It's hard to take them seriously.

@Klorox:

I think you're right, LKD. I think these athiests should shut the heck up, and if they don't feel like celebrating any "religious holidays," they should be forced to work the days I consider sacred and have to work.Yeah. If they don't like Christmas, why not come to work? Why, all of a sudden, doesn't giving them a day off on the Christmas day violate their freedom of religion by implying that they are going to celebrate a Christian holiday? :rolleyes:

@Cuchulainn:

Note to all bible-bashers here, your Christmas carols are old pagan songs.Yeah, especially Adeste Fideles and Angelus ad Virginem. ;)

I'm very non-religious, but I don't have the slightest problem with celebrating Christmas as a "family gathering/let's eat/give each other presents" kind of thing, and I think it's pretty stupid to take offense from people saying Merry Christmas.

As far as I know, there isn't even any proof that Jesus was born on Christmas specifically. It was just decided that it should be celebrated then, because there were no other religious holidays around that time of the year already. There were similar pagan celebrations long before that.

Susipaisti hit it right on the head, there is no evidence of the actual birthdate for Jesus Christ. But for those of us with Religious leanings, we are encouraged to remember Him in our festivities. We still eat a ton of high sugar goodies and huge plates of Turkey Dinners (and likely left over turkey for another week after that...), we still spend beyond our means to give gifts to our loved ones (even ones that dirve us crazy the other 364 days of the year), and even try to think of those less fortunate than ourselves...

But for those of us with Religious leanings, we are encouraged to remember Him in our festivities.Out of religiously linked holidays I definetely like Christmas the best, because it's so positive. It's not "Repent, you heathen." It's celebration.

I think people who take such great offense to Christmas stuff are abusing freedom of religion and political correctness quite selfishly. Trying to shove religious holidays under the carpet is just as bad as force-feeding religious views on the non-religious. Tolerance works both ways.

i think so too

Merry christmas, doesn't mean convert to christianity or burn a billion times in the flaming hells!!!

i say it to be nice, or whatever to people

I guess the big beef some have with Christmas is that it is overdone. One Commercial had a Radio station playing all Christmas music--in the middle of freakin' November! Was that an advertisement or a public service announcement?

Yeah, one radio station in my area has already started playing nothing but Christmas songs, and will continue to do so for the next month. :rolleyes: But at least them I can tune out. TBH, I think it was summed up pretty well in a Boston Legal episode no too long ago (though the subject was Halloween instead of Christmas). Translated for the upcoming holiday, it would be something like this:

Christmas is not about Jesus dying on the cross, it's about giving...and receiving presents. :happy:

... and then there's this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10355980/) take on the matter :rolleyes:

It goes too far in both directions, IMO.

"I think it's more important to put Christ back into our war planning than into our Christmas cards," said the council's general secretary, the Rev. Bob Edgar, a former Democratic congressman. :lol: Because we all know Christ loved the idea of wars... :shake:

Honestly, every time December rolls around, I've already forgotten how disgusted I was by the blatant attempts to "include other faiths". I'm quickly reminded, though, when I hear all the mangled Christmas songs trying to fit the five-syllable "Happy Holidays" into songs that used to sport the four-syllable "Merry Christmas". Do these people really think they're fooling anyone? Someone who wants to take offense to the Christmas songs will still hear a whispered Merry Christmas in the melody, and others who want to hear Merry Christmas will be slightly put off by the change. Plus it sounds really rushed, and frankly quite out-of-place.

The Daily Show did have the best answer for why to use Happy Holidays. The fact that it's plural. It includes ChristmasEve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Years Eve, New Years Day and a bunch of other holidays that other religions celebrate (I've heard words like Hannukah, Kwanza, Ramadan. Not sure what they all mean, so I won't expand on them.) But to me, it's not appropriate for me, a Christian, to run around wishing everyone a Happy Hannukah. Further, using the term Happy New year starting in November is just stupid. For me, it's still Merry Christmas.

Sure, Christmas is the only Religious holiday that's still a national holiday. It's easier for for them to allow Christians to attend their services and leave the rest home to meditate on the true meaning of "Seperation of Church and State" as opposed to trying to open on the 25th and having all the Christians say "Bleep you, I'm staying home with my family, it's Christmas for Bleep sakes!"