Always in times of breakups or just plain lonliness my friends have always said to me "Don't worry, Jan, there's someone out there for everyone." In this world of science and skepticism, many people still draw courage from the idea that somewhere out there is a person who is perfect for them, just waiting to be swept (or sweep them) off their feet. Reading through the Relationship Rant Thread (http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/22/1280/2.html) I've realised that there are a number of opinions on the subject.

Personally, I have to admit I am a cynic. In my head there is no "perfect person" out there waiting for me to enter their life, just a lot of lonely people all scrambling to be noticed and pair off into mutual love. I have noticed that the only people who actually believe this seem to be either in a happy (or desperately unhappy) relationship, or hopeless romantics who live in the hope that one day their Prince[ss] will come. Certainly Disney movies add to the score to be sure.

So is there really a destined love for everyone? Or are we all blindly grasping for something that doesn't truly exist?

I don't think there's a pre-designed person for everybody and that everybody has a 'soulmate'. However due to the sheer number of people on the planet there is bound to be somebody for anybody. While not perfect the relationship would be one that both would be happy in.

People are human. Humans aren't perfect. No matter what happens your loved one will let you down eventually in some area or another. If you believe in there being a perfect person for you then you'll also believe that the perfect person would never let you down. Having been let down you will no longer view your current lover as a perfect person and you'll run off looking for Mr/Mrs perfect and leaving your old lover who possibly only had a few flaws (in your opinion) and those flaws could be ignored or coped with.

Love is all about compromise.

As for destiny? Nope. But statistical probablility would say that there is somebody out there for everybody.

So is there really a destined love for everyone? Or are we all blindly grasping for something that doesn't truly exist? I'd say the answer to both of those questions are no. I do not believe there is one particular person in the world for everyone. Quite to the contrary, I think there are MANY people in the world with whom any one given person would be compatible with (kind of like how there are many professions which a person may find fulfilling). I definitely don't prescribe to the theory that there is only one special person in the world for you to meet, and if you don't meet that person, you'll be miserable and lonely for the rest of your life.

I think this is an entirely reasonable position. There are well over 6 billion people in the world. Don't you find it odd that 99% of the world's population have that one special person live within 50 miles of them? Or attend the same school they do at the same time they do? What would happen if that one special person you had to marry lived in Siberia, and you have no intentions of ever going to Siberia? It is more reasonable to assume that there are lots of people out there for everyone.

That is not to say that everyone is compatible with everyone. Within any given population, there is probably a relatively small percentage of people with whom you would be compatible enough to have a relationship, and surely a small percentage of people you'd be willing to marry. I have no idea what that percentage is, but given that most people marry at some point in their lives, it can't be that small. Even if you are only compatible with 1% of the population, you will meet hundreds of people throughout the course of your life that will qualify.

So is there really a destined love for everyone?I believe so.

The misconception people carry is that their true love or soul mate is alive when they are.

My Prince Charming didn't have a horse. He came in a white dinghy. :)

due to the sheer number of people on the planet there is bound to be somebody for anybodyShure, but due of the sheer number of people on the planet the chances of actually meeting her are, the very least, non-existent.

Many people seem to be fantasizing about sappy romances and stuff like that. Dream, meet Reality.

A cinderella strory for guys: The princess who slept for seven years (http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/hoe/hoe2-17.htm)

Now the thing is that most of the girls look for the prince charming and most of the guys look for those princesses, the rapunzels and the sleeping beauties, maybe even some of the princes look for those cinderellas. Usually they find each other. But people learn to expect a thing from a fairytale, and that's the problem. The charming princes lose their charm, since charm's on the outside. Fairytales never tell what happens after 'they lived happily ever after'. That's usually when things go wrong. Normal life doesn't live up to the expectations. So what happens is that a lot of people quit that story and start it all over again from the beginning with a new prince(ss).

It sucks. Big time.

It's a recurring theme in Terry Pratchett's books. People make stories real, since they believe in them. Thay want to believe them. But the stories go only so far and when real life hits people in the face after the supposed happy ending, they just bounce right back into their lala-land instead of getting real.

Not that we are any different. Sucks to be a human, no?

Much simpler when it's all about sex and meeting the nature's demands instead of some high-flying philosophies.

If I were to believe in the one single soulmate idea, that would have to be on a sort of religious level, and it's not like I find grounds for it there, actually. I believe that most people will at some point meet someone they want to marry. That's the nature's course. So yes, then they will feel like they have found their true love and all. Probably the best pick out of a larger number. That could only reinforce the belief in the one soulmate. But in reality, there is more than one chance in life and there is more than one person with whom a more or less bearable lawfully wedded coexistence is possible. :p

Since a person can only marry one other person in our culture, it's obvious that there is already someone out there whom you don't know yet or at least don't know to be your future spouse. This leads to ideas such as it's only a matter of finding the predestined person. But that's wrong. One finds a spouse more than the spouse. Of course, some choices are better than others and, normally, there is no tie to the top if the criteria are sharp enough. But this doesn't make the predestination thing right. ;)

Urithrand
don't bother waiting that Princess Charming will come to you, charging, and storm your fortress on her white horse. That's unlikely to happen. You'll get grey waiting for it. You can still do something.

Have fun. Go out, meet new people, or learn to know people you know better, go on parties. Relax. Things tend to right themselves once you feel comfortable with yourself again. Easier said than done, but that's it.

In my humble opinion there is no perfection in this world. To have a perfect love (on a white horse/car/jet/whatever) come to you is therefore completely unlikely to happen. Not only you will get grey as Ragusa said, most probably you will pass to the next level of existence before that happens.

There are only levels of compromising that exist even in love. The less you do the more happy you are. That is the best i think it can happen as a rule.

Soul mates as the platonic philosophy teaches, is not in the form of material level (i mean sexual). The philosophy speaks about the platonic level (which is the spiritual part). Soul mate can be someone from your own gender, that have no intention of seeing him/her as a lover.

Usually the person that causes that fireworks to start working within you, after a while is just another person (ok not exactly but you know what i mean). That also in my language is quite different as a word than love.

Love comes through time, passion wears off through time. The latter is what usually causes us to hook up with a person, the former comes from staying with a person for some time.

Soul mates are a fiction and an illusion. Any good man and any good woman can have a successful and happy marriage if and only if both are willing to pay the price.

There's no prince charming to come to your rescue, and there's no princess that is waiting for you to rescue her from boredom/torment. There are just other lonely people like us who seek the company of others and ultimately a mate with whom they can have this dream relationship.

The idea of dating is to guage what that price is and whether you feel that you can rejoice in their company years from now when the newness of the relationship wears off.

It sounds good, but I find it's harder then heck to find that...

Shure, but due of the sheer number of people on the planet the chances of actually meeting her are, the very least, non-existent.But the fact is there's somebody for everybody. Whether you find them or not is moot.

And pigs fly. It's proven, even if you can't find them.

Urithrand
don't bother waiting that Princess Charming will come to you, charging, and storm your fortress on her white horse. That's unlikely to happen. You'll get grey waiting for it. You can still do something.I wasn't really speaking so much on a personal level, more on the theoretical. Perhaps I worded the question wrong. Everyone you meet has a potential as a partner. Some of these people clash in far too many ways to be taken seriously, and others clash less and end up as friends.

What I mean is, do you believe there is someone out there who is so compatible with you that you (should you meet) would inevitably fall into requited love, whether you like it or not? Call it what you will, destiny or soulmates or whatever, do you believe that such partners exist?

Soul mates are a fiction and an illusion. Any good man and any good woman can have a successful and happy marriage if and only if both are willing to pay the price.Don't get us all started on that again... Hetero and Homo couples both included.

Don't get us all started on that again... Hetero and Homo couples both included.For any two people to co-exist in harmony, the price must be paid. Why I run afoul with people here is that they demand a price I am unwilling to pay, and I likewise require a price they see no reason to pay. I speak of Heterosexual couples because I don't want to be involved with homosexual relations (or even know the details)...

@ Gnarff: Fair enough, point taken. My apologies, I re-read your post and I think I must've misinterpreted it the first time round ;)

And what about the abusers in our society? Is there a perfect partner for a pedophiles or someone who just likes to beat the s**t out of their partner because they have such a low self esteem that they don't know how to have a normal relationship? If you were to say that there is someone for everyone then you would have to assume the abused partner enjoyed being abused and was able to equally contribute to a healthy happy parnership. Not to mention that the abuser would be happy with his or her own behavior.

Our world is too screwed up and human beings are far too complex for there to be a soul mate for everyone.

One could argue that these people have not yet met the person who could make them realise the error in their ways. Who's to say that the wife beater might not one day find a woman who he'd rather die than hurt? I am not defending such people in the slightest, but it is perhaps a bit rash to condemn them to a life time of being such.

Somehow I seem to have switched viewpoint here :heh: Or am I just playing devil's advocate? I can't even tell myself anymore :confused:

@Urithrand:

Soul mates are a fiction and an illusion. Any good man and any good woman can have a successful and happy marriage if and only if both are willing to pay the price.
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Don't get us all started on that again... Hetero and Homo couples both included. I'm sure he didn't mean to underline that only men and women can have fully complementary relationships (which is, however, true), or to single out homo couples. Thing is, gay rights and all, the society still can't digest the idea of talking like, "one day you will find your man or woman". It's going to take a couple decades yet, I guess, and with God's help maybe it won't happen at all. Please don't drag gay rights into this, which I would sort of understand if you were gay yourself, which you are not, as rights are one thing and how we see love is something different. If they just want to make it legal and in people's face, I'll vote against them. If they (=the authorities) want to make legal gay "marriage" and adoption, I'll vote against them and preach against them. But if they want me to change the way I think, I'll take a bloody gun. I will not speak of "any two people" as if your random human were gay or straight at a 50/50 chance.

Chev, did you actually read my last post but one? :nolike:

You seem to believe everyone you meet is a potential partner, which I am adressing. That's not true because not everyone is bisexual. Attraction and relationships are not irrespective of gender and gender is not a relatively meaningless collateral biologically-technical detail. Gender division is what forms the room for love (of that kind) and relationships (of that kind). That some men are feminised or some women masculinised doesn't in any way imply that for a normal man other men are potential partners or that for a normal woman other women are potential partners. Maybe Gnarff doesn't have a problem with that kind of perspective and will just perhaps limit himself to observing that normally male goes with female, but I do.

I think a man can be your lifelong partner without either of you actually being gay. Some people just don't like the company of women as much as they enjoy the company of men even though they have no physical attraction towards men. It's more about being best friends though but if it's a lifelong relationship I think the other guy could be called a life partner. After all chev, you've said yourself that it does not have to be about the sex allways. :p

In general I think there's someone out there for most of us. Not for all of since as Dragonfly said there's some loonies out there and then there's also those who set their aim way too high, never finding anyone they'll be satisfied with.

Chev, that was what I was going into with the incompatibility argument. You start with the whole population as potential partners, then remove (usually) the opposite gender because you are not compatible with them. Then other people are incompatible for other reasons, so they get scratched off the list and so on and so forth until at the end you are left with one (or no) person. My post towards Gnarff was not intended to spark a gay-rights argument, I had just been reading the homosexuality & religion thread in all honesty. I took his post completely out of context, and for that I have already apologised.

Now, now, no need to apologize to me. Just get into the closet with Chevalier, stay there for a while, and I'm sure you both will feel much better when you come out with a new family of monkeys. :p

Wordplay, you know, you really thought I wouldn't notice? I apreciate you as a friend and a person and all, but I'm afraid I don't share your feelings. Hope I haven't hurt you, man. :p

[Inappropriate material removed . . . gee, there's nothing left. Warning pending - dmc]

Bad joke, I guess. That's what you get when you go with the flow. ;)

[ December 30, 2006, 18:14: Message edited by: Wordplay ]

Urithrand: Apology accepted. But it did lead to a valid point in the process. The principle is the same for any to people to get alone, but in the position of romantic relationships, the bar is set that much higher. Considering what's at stake, that's the way it should be...

Aww it'd be nice if everyone had a soulmate. I guess there probably is someone who could be your perfect match, but then who's to say they aren't a perfect match for anyone else? I don't think there's anything wrong with believing that you do have one though. Heh, according to a Naruto test Kakashi is my perfect match. He's so cool~! *^^* Unfortunately he's not real, so although I'm trying to stay realistic here, I'll just be daydreaming about Jiro instead~~ *^_____^* hehehe...

There's a number of matches for you and the higher the degree of matching, the lower the number of people who fit in that category. Perhaps there is just one person in the top category, so that would be your best match, but it doesn't preclude the possibility of someone else rising even higher in the course of his or her life.

However, there's more than just the combination of traits in the matching. There's common history, the memories, the hopes. I suppose hopes and dreams fall in the traits category at least partly. There's also the problem of the certain je ne sais quoi. ;) No, I'm not talking about anything like sex appeal. I just mean the Unknown Factor. I don't think it's all that simple.

At any rate, the soulmate theory is a self-fulfilling prophecy, as:

1. Whomever you love strongly enough and are happy with, will feel like the only true love for as long as it lasts.
2. Whomever fails you and/or leaves you or whatever, your mind will sooner or later conclude that it wasn't "that" person.
3. You will always be more likely to conclude that you have been mistaken rather than the concept is wrong. Therefore, in case of it not working out, you'll admit your error rather than stop believing in the soulmate concept.
4. Our culture as well as nature presupposes people to end up in a monogamous marriage. With whomever you end up you may start believing it was meant that way. Unless it isn't working out - then you can conclude it wasn't meant that way and you went against your fate.

See? It's easier to subsume any factual situation under the soulmate theory.

Oh, but I still believe that God has some plan for me. Taking a walk on the soulmate theory doesn't change this. ;)

Well, being a die-hard and serious Christian, I believe God has a master plan and included in that is someone for everyone who comes to Him. I know He brought my gf and I together (seriously, there's no doubt there) and we couldn't be a more perfect match. I knew I had really struck gold, though, when she described her cell phone as having "only one stick of health left". :D

...If you didn't get that, just let it go. Anyway, I honestly believe that God has prepared someone for everyone who He intends to get married. I'll admit there are some people out there who will just never get married, for whatever reason, and they don't have a match, but for the vast majority of us, I believe there is someone God is waiting to show you. Of course, you have to believe in God for Him to show you, but...

I know a bunch of non-religious people who are happily married. I also know two very religious people, both of whom really want to meet that special person and get married, but yet are are not married. Given that both these people are well into their 40s, I think the probability of them ever getting married is a lot less than it was 10 or 20 years ago, so I don't think it works that way.

I also know at least one extremely religious person from school who married because she fully believed "God" had shown her, and is now extremely unhappy with an abusive and alcoholic husband.

Show friendship, compassion, trust and respect for people, and in the end you are likely to find someone who will do the same for you.

Oh, and try not and be a nerd. It's amazing how many older engineers in my industry are single and are obvious nerds. Don't spend your life playing computer games!

Because God makes everything good happen and if it doesn't happen it obviously means you didn't "Go"/"Ask"/"Accept"/"Embrace" Him/Jesus strongly enough :rolleyes:

@Aldeth: Perhaps for some of those people, it would be better to stay unmarried. For some others, it might be a sign of wanting the real thing so much that they won't go for the makeshift pleasures or poor quality relationships - someone has to give witness I guess. ;) For some, perhaps something will happen yet. But let me not have Male Answer Syndrome now. I'm not afraid to say I don't know. Nor do I have to know... just hope the best for them.

@Carcaroth: Maybe she was wrong, maybe she was actually right and we don't know the future.

Oh, and try not and be a nerd. It's amazing how many older engineers in my industry are single and are obvious nerds. Don't spend your life playing computer games!Yep.

@Abomination:

Because God makes everything good happen and if it doesn't happen it obviously means you didn't "Go"/"Ask"/"Accept"/"Embrace" Him/Jesus strongly enoughSometimes yes, sometimes not. Or rather sometimes more directly, sometimes less directly. Sometimes what appears good is not so in the end. Sometimes people blame God for bad things happening in their lives, without realising that perhaps something worse was going to happen but God alleviated it. Would you cry about a broken bone if you barely dodged death, for instance? God's interventions are much less easy to see and, if you don't believe, insanely difficult to fathom.

I also know at least one extremely religious person from school who married because she fully believed "God" had shown her, and is now extremely unhappy with an abusive and alcoholic husband. Because God makes everything good happen and if it doesn't happen it obviously means you didn't "Go"/"Ask"/"Accept"/"Embrace" Him/Jesus strongly enough Or maybe the other didn't continue to do that. Like I said earlier, Soulmates are a myth, an illusion. Any two people can get along if they determine themselves to do so and actually do what is required. It's not just finding the one that feels right to be with, but actually working on the relationship...

Any two people can get along if they determine themselves to do so and actually do what is required.True. If they both determine themselves to get along. On the other hand, if one of the two determines him/herself to ruin the whole damn thing, he/she will. Whoever said it takes two people to ruin a marriage was delusional. It only takes one.

First off, people can't just get along because they decide they want to, or they decide they will. If that were true, 90% of divorces would not happen. People get along because they have have a good relationship to begin with, and then work to maintain it.

Chev:
I largely agree with you. A lot of the time, even 'very religious' people aren't listening to God, either because they're in the wrong religion, or because they are being religious just to look good in the first place. A lot of the time, God's plans aren't what we want, and we try to say they were wrong for not being what we want.

Ab:
You wouldn't be mocking my faith, would you? Its fine if you say 'I don't agree with you', but mocking and sarcasm are rather distasteful.

Carcoth:
I can't disagree with you more! I am a total nerd, all the way, and plan to stay that way for the rest of my life, and I found someone! Seriously, though, if you change yourself to please others, you won't be happy with the resulting relationship.

NOG,

The exception that proves the rule? It is obviously possible to meet someone similar (there being female nerds as well) but in reality there isn't a particularly good male nerd to female nerd ratio which is obviously going to limit your options.

I largely agree with you. A lot of the time, even 'very religious' people aren't listening to God, either because they're in the wrong religion, or because they are being religious just to look good in the first place. A lot of the time, God's plans aren't what we want, and we try to say they were wrong for not being what we want.Care to enlighten everyone about which religion you need to belong to in order to hear God? Whatever your answer, someone is going to disagree with you. Hell is, after all, exothermic. (http://www.psc.edu/~deerfiel/Jokes/pchem.html)

Drew, well, that I'll leave as an exercise for the reader. There's a reason I didn't mention specifics, and that's because I don't want this to turn into a religion arguement.

Carcaroth, I was actually joking about the first half, but the second half I'm entirely serious about. While everyone has to change throughout their lives, and relationships are frequently about comprimize, to start a relationship based on false info (I'm not a total nerd and geek) is to doom it to trouble, though not necessarily failure. Either she'll find out who you truely are, and there will be lots of questions to answer, or she won't and you'll keep going out together. How long are you willing to live that lie, however?

First off, people can't just get along because they decide they want to, or they decide they will. If that were true, 90% of divorces would not happen. People get along because they have have a good relationship to begin with, and then work to maintain it.That's exactly it. They have to actually work at it, meaning not just decide to do what it takes, but actually do it.

Whoever said it takes two people to ruin a marriage was delusional. It only takes one.Sad but true. Who here hasn't heard stories about abuse, addiction or infidelity that has caused a marriage to falter?

I really hope there isn't a special someone for everyone. Chances are mine is already dead or too far away for me to ever meet him, if that is the case.

But since I already found someone I wouldn't mind spending a looong time with (and that I worked hard to get interested in me), I'm not that concerned.

There are a number of people in the world that you would get along with well I think, but that is also a bit up to you. Some people doesn't want a soulmate and seem to be happy when they get to change the scenery once in a while.

@NOG:

I largely agree with you. A lot of the time, even 'very religious' people aren't listening to God, either because they're in the wrong religion, or because they are being religious just to look good in the first place. A lot of the time, God's plans aren't what we want, and we try to say they were wrong for not being what we want.Warning, theology inside! :p Since He's love and He's perfec, He therefore wants the best for us, so doing His will is the best for us. Details, implications and ramifications may be a bit too supernatural to analyse with the logic of mortals. ;) At any rate, doing our will instead of God's doesn't benefit us in the end and not because of God punishing us.

He therefore wants the best for us, so doing His will is the best for us. Details, implications and ramifications may be a bit too supernatural to analyse with the logic of mortals. At any rate, doing our will instead of God's doesn't benefit us in the end and not because of God punishing us.Exactly. The sooner we "get with the program, the better off we'll be. Then we can become the "right someone" for someone who'd struggling to be the "right someone" and we'd make a good couple. From there, we need to continue to work hard to stay as teh "right people" to have that happily ever after. I believe that a great many love stories neglect the work involved in getting to that point...