View Full Version : Are those guys serious?
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 12:41am
I figure you guys must know of this, but I stumbled upon it only recently. I can't decide whether this should make me weep for humanity or laugh my proverbial ass out. (it's been the latter at first)
:D BURN the witch!!! :D
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 1:00am
Eh, I don't see myself any less Christian because of my playing D&D. Eh...
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 1:34am
I've never really understood this. My parents and sister are Christians. I went to church until I was 16 and although I have stopped a lot of my friends are Christians. My parents were always against anything like D&D although they weren't too strict on it. But I still don't understand the problem with it - I guess perhaps if you really believe in magic etc it could become a problem. My opinion has always been that its called fantasy for a reason.
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 2:21am
Back in the Dark Ages before PnP D&D or PC's our family bookshelves held the Bible, fairy stories, mythology, fiction, non-fiction, and the Encylopedia Britannica. I loved comic books. At one time or another just about everything has been condemed.
"The devil made me do it". Does D&D make you an evil person? Not IMO. Maybe you are an evil person and that is why you play D&D. If you repeat an incantation will that cause the incantation to work? I do not believe so. In fact I would be surprised if it did. :eek:
So go ahead - roll on the floor with laughter.
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 2:24am
You have a problem when you try casting spells in real life. That's when and where your personality gets a kick. You can have an attitude problem as well, if fantasy supplants your real life and the roles invert, ie things happen in life than couldn't happen "in real D&D", for instance. And so on and so forth. There are people who extend worship of D&D gods onto their real life. But that's a mental problem.
The Christian problem with magic is that it involves either of the two: calling upon evil forces that may not always be apparently evil but always are evil in fact, or calling upon imaginated forces greater than God, ie potentially binding Him, which means either opposing God or going around God. Both aren't the Christian way.
I don't see any of that in D&D, at least played the casual way.
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 3:05am
That site is as propaganda as it gets. I read through a couple of articles on that site and they were basically either condemning Islam or the Catholic Church in most of them. I seriously hope churches like that don't grow too much. :toofar:
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 3:09am
Erm, wow, that article's a bit insane. I've never been THAT upset if my character died, at most mad at the dragon that killed me :p .
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 4:30am
You see, THOSE are the people that gives Christians bad reputation.
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 4:54am
I'd like to share Scott Kurtz's opinion with you.
Alexander the Apostate
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 8:06am
These are the kind of people that make me afraid to go to town. Seriously, what is wrong with them? I've played D&D for some time now, and I'm not a devil worshipper. . . I think.
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 8:24am
I couldn't stop laughing. I know it's a serious problem that ignorant people will believe, and will rally to have D&D banned, but the dialog was just too funny! The best lines is, "You should gather up your occult paraphernalia like your rock music , occult books, charms, Dungeons and Dragons material . Don't throw them away, Burn them!" :rolling:
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 9:14am
You see, THOSE are the people that gives Christians bad reputation.Amen, brother! Don't worry. I and my Tormish brothers will not be swayed by their pretty words and guilt trips. By all that is true and noble I will not falter from my duty to Torm the True!
Bahir the Red
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 11:27am
I dont play D&D :aaa: but still: lol!
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 12:15pm
They couldn't be more wrong! D&D led me to become very religious.
"If I make this saving throw I promise to become a monk"
(I roll a twenty)
"Yes! Um... I'll join the church....later" :D
And when I play a paladin I shout:
"Burn in hell heathen scum!"
When ever I use smite evil.
All of this goes to show that religion has an important role in all parts of our life. :rolleyes:
Sun, 1st Aug '04, 5:25pm
What a laughable little strip. I cant believe it isnt intended to be a parody. Certainly feels like it. :grin:
That poor guiltridden girl repenting her sins. Suicide. Burning of 'occult objects'. :rolleyes: Oh please. How cheap and simple can some people be?! Absurd. Its the kind of guiltmongering and indoctrination that reminds me of why I distanced myself from this nonesense.
Mon, 2nd Aug '04, 1:55am
Hehehe, this is funny stuff.
Still I believe it isn't parody AFAIK. this guy honestly seems to believe what he's babbling about - but then again, I often find the more agressive religious propaganda's rather laughable.
Still, pathetic as it is that believe *mean* this kind of nonsense, I had a decent laugh reading it.
Mon, 2nd Aug '04, 2:49am
chevalier, read about christianity before you talk about it... I'm a strong christian and there is no reason not to play D&D, you're just using your mind to "pretend" and have fun, there's nothing wrong about it.
And here's a thing, christians don't have a bad reputation. Christians make up 33% of the world. Christians have a good reputation, forms of catholocism and orthodox christians do have a bad reputation, but I don't see us having a bad reputation at all, people just assume they know our beliefs but they do not. That's where it all comes from. (sorry I'm ranting)
And lepin "religious" means following church rules not being faithful in god. Faithful describes actual christians much better than religious.
Mon, 2nd Aug '04, 5:13am
That's pretty funny. Not sure how on earth someone can take that seriously.
Mon, 2nd Aug '04, 7:14am
GodRules44, methinks you're picking a fight with the wrong person when it comes to religion. Chev will smite you three ways to the sabbeth.
Besides, chev was talking about extreme cases when people actually BELIEVE in the D&D gods and in reality try to cast spells and blame the failure on their lack of components (i.e. no powdered goblin finger or some such).
Mon, 2nd Aug '04, 8:08am
Stuff like this has been around since the early 80's (when I first started playing D&D), and the tone hasn't changed. Gotta love those religious extremist nutjobs!
Mon, 2nd Aug '04, 10:22pm
1- Yes, since early 80's, I was in catesismo (sorry, don't know how to spell it in english) and the priest told us that "Another one bites the dust" has an evil message.
2- There is this movie, Al Pacino IIRC, he says something like this: The devil is bad? who said that? I'm just bad because Jesus has a good publicist.
3- In any of the "Bibles" (I read several) says something like Jesus burning things or punishing people; why this churchs/priests do that? What gave them the power to do things that doesn't exist in any of their "Books"?
4- Quote from one link in that article : http://www.chick.com/articles/dnd.asp
"...For Christians, the first scriptural problem is the fact that Dungeons and Dragons violates the commandment of I Ths. 5:22 "Abstain from all appearance of evil..."
Who, what, decides that D&D is evil?
Better: is there a book, law that says that?
All is just a matter of interpretation, so a guy "thinks" D&D is evil, what stops me to "interpretate" that posting here is evil... oh man... I always wanted to Jesus to resurrect again and see what his church has become, you know what? I think "some people" would kill him before anybody find out the return.
Mon, 2nd Aug '04, 11:08pm
I don't want to be Elfstar anymore. I want to be Debbie.HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAH.
Tue, 3rd Aug '04, 12:27am
Yeah, GodRules44, you're really picking a fight with the wrong guy with that post, I personally am scared to death of ever being in an arguement with chev.
Tue, 3rd Aug '04, 7:46am
I think GodRules44 just misunderstood Chev.
Christianity is a broad umbrella word. The people publishing that garbage on the web represent a small but vocal part of the Christian community.
Tue, 3rd Aug '04, 8:51am
The people publishing that garbage on the web represent a small but stupid part of the Christian community.Couldn't have said it better myself Nakia :p
Tue, 3rd Aug '04, 9:54am
oh man! That was so stupid! I also read the article "Straight talk on D&D", and it was worse! I honestly have no idea where he got half of his ravings. I mean, where the hell did he link rape and D&D?
Additionally, male characters in the game often try to seduce female characters; and references abound to things like venereal disease and satyriasis (a male condition of permanent sexual arousal).I have no idea where this guy played his D&D games. They were probably all on acid! :D
In addition, defilement is urged in many ways, such as excrement or urinating to "defile a font." Seriously, I think he just had a DM on crack... :)
Situational Ethics-any act can be justified in the mind of the player, therefore there are no absolutes of right or wrong; no morality other than "point" morality needed to ensure survival and advancement Yes, of course. Paladins and other Lawful good characters are often seen pushing down old women and children out of their way to get out of a burning building... :rolleyes:
Tue, 3rd Aug '04, 11:49am
Let me just sum up my argument in four words.
"ITS JUST A GAME!!!"
Sheesh. Well, extremes on both sides I suppose.
Hey, reading other articles, he rebutts my statement.
Of course, just like everything else, some people (young or otherwise) will say, "Those people were just weird or losers to begin with. I'm too together to fall into stuff like that. It's just a game!" Yeah, and an H-bomb is just a firecracker! Like the people who think they can play around with crack or pre-marital sex and not get burned by death, AIDS or pregnancy, the person who thinks they can mess with D&D without getting burnt is whistling in the dark. The evidence is definitely stacked against them! The game is too carefully crafted a trap for many people to elude. Now thats a crock. :rolleyes:
Tue, 3rd Aug '04, 12:55pm
Not quite Jaguar. How many people have fallen into the 'trap' the writer is talking about? The 'trap' is when they believe real life is identical to D&D, when people start worshiping D&D gods and attempting to cast spells.
If D&D is this all consuming demon then the same must apply to all frantasy/sci-fi writers. Herbert was a heritic, Tolkien was possessed and Ed Greenwood is the devil himself for daring to create the Forgotten Realms!
Sounds catholic to me. I bet this guy's great-great-great-great-great-great... bla bla bla grand-daddy went around killing women for being witches. You know, those tests they have such as throwing a girl off a cliff and if she survives she's a witch... so they'll kill her... and if she doesn't survive then she wasn't a witch. You know what type of person I'm talking about. One who is so obsessed with his religion that it dictates everything, like logic.
Then again this does remind me of a certain flash comic I saw... http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=90046
In fact... I think this is where the article writer aquired all his information about D&D.
Tue, 3rd Aug '04, 1:21pm
D&D like all things in life is to be taken in moderation. Anything can become "evil" if you take it too seriously. People are always going to see what they want in anything to further their agenda. The Bible is one example. It can be interpreted in so many ways. One group sees a message of love, tolerance and harmony between all people, and another group can see it as preaching segregation and dominance of one group of human beings over another. You also have to look at the context, it's a game, it's not to be taken seriously it's meant to be fun. Unfortunately all it takes sometimes is one group of people to take it to the extreme to ruin it for everyone. The same debate has come up many times and always will, whether it's D&D, Magic: The Gathering or religion, someone, somewhere is always going to object. All we can do is accept that that is their opinion not everyone's, respect it and live our lives the best way we can.
Tue, 3rd Aug '04, 5:37pm
Abomination, You are so right. This topic reminded me of the witch hunts. I could only laugh when I saw the movie in your link.
Yes, there are those who take D&D too seriously but IMO that is their personality and if there were no D&D they would find something else.
I remember when comic books were blamed for sadistic/unsocial behavior. My credo is: Take responsibility for what you do. Don't blame the Devil. You choose your path in life.
Anyone old enough to understand and play D&D has surely had some moral/religious training.
Wed, 4th Aug '04, 1:17am
I am sure that we all agree that Jack Chick's arguments aren't very sound, but what unnerves me is that lots of people who play RPG's sink to Chick's level and lash out with the same invective. About 6 months ago, I saw an angry rant on a D&D website against a quote from a Christian that said, [paraprasing here]"D&D promotes violence, sex, drugs, atheism, communism, Jewishness, and so on." The quote was pretty clear in that it was satirical, but a few RPG'ers took it seriously anyway, using it to fuel their anger at anyone who decide that playing D&D was wrong.
I agree with Istolil that D&D deserves moderation, and that anyone who plays it in excess needs some discipline in it. D&D isn't bad in its own right, but playing it to excess certainly is.
One last thing of interest is that no one I know (Christian or otherwise) has ever objected against D&D. I mentioned to one Christian, who is about 30 or so, that I played D&D and she just replied, "Oh, that's cool. My husband used to play that in high school." (Her husband was also Christian). Let's not equate religious people, even conservative ones, to people who hate D&D.
Wed, 4th Aug '04, 2:11am
I suppose your right. But just because a few people crossed their realities and took the game too far, this guy starts ranting about how evil the game is.
Seriously, its Chaotic Good at worst. ;)
Wed, 4th Aug '04, 8:05am
Hey, my friend found something, take a look at this :
«This game is fantasy. The action of a D&D game takes place in a imaginations of the players. Like actors in a movie, players sometimes speak as if [...] In reality, however, you are no more your character than you are the king when you play chess. Likewise, the world implied by these rules is an imaginary one.» Dungeons and Dragons, Players Handbook v.1, p.6.:lol: :shake:
Wed, 4th Aug '04, 9:15am
Triactus, that's what you call 'legal-jitsu' of D&D avoiding the disgruntled parents' claims that gaming promotes violence in children that plagued computer games.
Jaguar, I don't like you referring to those individuals who link D&D and reality as 'people'. I am offended that you would classify them as the same type of creature as I am. Please refer to them as 'nutters', 'loonies' or 'law students' ( :p ).
I hope everyone realises that my comments were not directed any religion outside of the religious belief that Chick represents.
Wed, 4th Aug '04, 12:27pm
I hope everyone realises that my comments were not directed any religion outside of the religious belief that Chick represents. And man, he is so in a religion and world all his own... :rolleyes: :D
Wed, 4th Aug '04, 1:56pm
Just wondering, what this people do in their lifes?
With that criteria: watch "hollywod" movies; play computer games (or consoles), read newspapers, I don't know... "I see devil everywhere..."
Thu, 5th Aug '04, 1:40am
Unbelievable. Didn't even think about the link with Christianity. I feel redempted. :p
Thu, 5th Aug '04, 3:06am
You mean, people really do take this stuff that seriously? Oh, sorry Abomination, I meant to put 'law students' et al where I put 'people' there.
But seriously, the only thing I've ever really heard a Christian person speak against as being evil (beside the obvious of course) is Tarot. but then, that was my mother talking about a cousin of mine who is seriously strange anyway.
Thu, 5th Aug '04, 3:14am
What is evil about Tarot then? I did it for a while amd it made me feel better, just like AD&D did...
This comic is just sick...
Thu, 5th Aug '04, 3:53am
I think the problem with Tarot for my mum may have been that she just didn't understand it fully at the time. Or it may just have been the cousin in question more than the Tarot.
Thu, 5th Aug '04, 4:08am
Mmmm yeah probably :S I should start again with tarot, I was a Much mor art ease when I did... Or just take another look at my spiriteul cards (SP?)
Thu, 5th Aug '04, 10:32am
Just out of curiosity, did anybody think that comic was a joke when they first read it? Especially at the end?
I did. I mean, really. A guy shouting:
'Then according to Acts 19:19 you should gather up all your occult paraphernalia like your rock music, occult books, charms, Dungeons and Dragons material. Don't throw them away. Burn them! We'lldo that here tonight.'
I so thought that that was a joke. Really.
Oh, I looked up Acts 19:19, just for fun, and found it to be:
'Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all [men]: and they counted the price of them, and found [it] fifty thousand [pieces] of silver. '
I never found rock music and D&D to be 'curious arts' myself.
Thu, 5th Aug '04, 11:43am
According to Chapter 1, verse 1, lines 1-3 of the book of Abominatorisim "All religious fanatics should be beaten within an inch of their life and left in the deserts of Israel so they can find their 'sacred land'."
It'll sell like hot cakes! Who wants to join the all-powerful religion of Abominatorisim? The whole goal of the religion is to force our religious beliefs upon those who would seek to do the same to others. We also have monthly get-togethers on the 5th of each month where we share cake and play ping-pong.
Thu, 5th Aug '04, 11:58am
hehe this **** is so silly its funny ;) i mean come one people. i dont know if you guys ever heard about the "tamagotchi" but they were the rage around 8 years ago? they were like digital pets that you nursed from birth, you had to feed them all the time like real pets and tech them things. hell, while i was in school i had my sister feed them hehe. anwyay, i heard that some shmucks killed themselves bec. their pets (or batteries) died. yeesh. i guess my point is, dont blame the game, its just a frickin game. and imho (and this is purely my opinion) if a person is dumb enough to get THAT absorbed into something that person probably really needed help in the first place and if D&D (or in this case, tamagotchi) didn't bump them off, something else would have. a failed romance, being expelled, that kinda stuff.
Fri, 6th Aug '04, 4:10am
I never did get the point of those tamagotchi things. And I think there are still 'new' ones being released here in Australia.
Actually, I had a bit of a laugh to myself when I find out some time ago that The Bible was once a Banned Book in some countries. I just don't get that anyone would want to ban any book which is the cornerstone of a religion, even if they don't agree with that religion's ideas, and yet AFAIK no D&D-related books have ever been Banned. Not that I'm saying D&D is a religion as such.
Sat, 7th Aug '04, 2:12am
@GodRules44: Read posts before replying to them. What part of "I don't see any of that in D&D, at least played the casual way." did you not understand?
Hint: Strong Christians had better be smart Christians as well. They tend to benefit from using proper syntax and spelling as well. You can't even spell Catholicism right and yet you know it has a bad reputation. You might have a pale cast of a point there in the light of the recent paedophilia scandal, but I've no idea where you got that bad reputation of the Orthodox. Perhaps you would like to educate us on all the different forms of Catholicism you know, as well?
Guess every branch of Christianity "does have" a bad reputation except your particular Church of Whatever because that's what your preacher told you and so Christians in general don't have a bad reputation. Let me guess: that's because your particular denomination is the one true church that saves the day. Yeah, God rules. But that's because He does the thinking and not some of His servants.