I found the best way to overcome the shyness was just to say so much that you can't back down, and then go from there. Pass the point of no return

But what if she finds it out of place and then our friendship relation suffer? I don't want to loose her as a friend, she is very dear to me.

Or worse what if she is in fact a demi-lich who only wants to eat my soul? (the least probable scenario :D )

That's why I like writing so much, in my writings everything is under my control and I don't have to fear unapproval.

Am I wrong or weird or what?

But what if she finds it out of place and then our friendship relation suffer? I don't want to loose her as a friend, she is very dear to me.
This is exactly how I feel, so no, I don't think it is weird to feel this way. I haven't done anything yet either, but for other reasons than shyness. If you are attracted to her, and you want to date her (or whatever you youngins call it these days ;) ), then you shouldn't back out of it. You will probably regret it if you do back down from shyness.

And if she is a demi-lich, whip out a Paper of Undying Love +6.

But what if she finds it out of place and then our friendship relation suffer? I don't want to loose her as a friend, she is very dear to me. If you get turned down, Ofelix, you still can remain friends with her, unless expressing your feelings scared the hell out of her.

Nontheless, I doubt your friendship with her would suffer. I was turned down by a friend two years ago, she didn't shared my feelings, but we're friends, nontheless. If you don't try, you'll never know.

/me casts Resistance to emotion:love

I'm set

@Ofelix: Just don't give her the impression that you don't feel anything else than friendship to her. Who knows, she might already be interested, so that kind of vibes could make things worse for you, not better.

First, I would find out if she's single, which you probably already know. Then, if she were single, I would try turning the charm up a bit. If she's receptive or even reciprocates that, there's bound to happen a romantic situation sooner or later. That, or you can help the situation a bit. ;) Oh, and get her flowers. :p

Yep, NEVER FORGET the flowers.

Make sure they are nice flowers.

Aye thanks for the advices, it seem my confidence has increase... a little bit.

Or get her one flower, can also be meaningful and is perhaps not as overwhelming as a whole bunch of flowers. ;)

Or pick some yourself when you're strolling through a field or forest or park with her, spontaneous and all. ;)

Just some random thoughts..

I'd go for a single red rose, but I'm soppy and sentimental.

Red roses are a bit cliched though.

The plus of red roses is that women know what they mean. If they don't like the meaning, they can always pretend they don't catch it. Then you can pretend you didn't mean it. Pinks are more or less safe because she can interpret them the way she wants (and act accordingly). Avoid whites unless you know what you're doing because they are oh so nuptial. Yellows are quite noble because they mean you respect her a lot and have warm feelings for her without necessarily hitting on her.

Nah, pinks are *too* safe. They're too ambiguous and wishy-washy. Nobody knows what to make of receiving pink roses.

That's the point.

The yellow one are kind of neat though, I think I'll use this one.

edit; So a single yellow flower should tell her I respect her and want to continue our relation eh?

[ January 19, 2006, 03:45: Message edited by: Ofelix ]

A nice big snog would be a better way of showing it!

Ofelix, yes, but yellow roses are friendly, so they don't give romantic hints... I think. She's probably going to get a nice vibe, something unintrusive. ;)

Well if everything goes well I'll finish the letter this week-end and go buy the flower(s) tuesday after school since there is a flower shop near my college.

Watch if the flowers are fresh enough. :) If roses aren't spectacular, get something exotic. Not overly romantic if you don't feel confident/decided enough to ask if she wants a relationship with you. Plus, romance is a lot of fun, so hurry is bad. :p

Just so you know I send via regular mail both the letter and the yellow flower. Wish me luck :roll:

Good on ya, dude. Hope it works out just fine. T'would have been better to give it to her in person, but still.

T'would have been better to give it to her in person, but stillAye, however 'twould more difficult to I, to conquer my shyness in order to give her in proper hands. Love shall always find a way no matter what! 'tis what I believe.

I wonder if anyone has considered changing this thread from "Relationship Rant" to something that indicates the positive discussions in here as well.

'twould be a good idea indeed. But to what name?

They could be positive rants, but rants nonetheless.


Update: I've decided that the girl that I have been talking about is the sole recipient of my affection (in less mechanical, un-human words: I like only her :p ). Now I'm just figuring out when to say what I want to say, and I'm trying to judge how she will respond. I prefer going in prepared, so I know how to react, and so on.

Okay, I'll take care of changing the name.

Good on ya, Saber, that you finally made up your mind. I wish you luck.

:bang: So I know some of you were following the stuff going on that I was posting in RB, and I figured I'd just do a quick vent here.

She sent me an email yesterday morning, trying to explain her reasons. I really don't buy them. That she needs to get away from where she is, and his place is the only one she can think of.

From what he has said, he is not happy with the idea either, and I'm hoping that he will also tell her to bugger off.

Lai, do you and your boyfriend live together or separately?

That she needs to get away from where she is, and his place is the only one she can think of. What kind of bull**** is that? If she really needs to get away, a trip of some kind is much better suited than sulking at an ex's place. Sounds to me she's desperarly trying to crawl back in his life.

It's a good start is he's not overjoyed by the idea, though. We'll keep our fingers crossed for you that he'll tell her to f*** off. Hope all turns out for the best, Lai.

She sent me an email yesterday morning, trying to explain her reasons. I really don't buy them. That she needs to get away from where she is, and his place is the only one she can think of.Wonder what his bed has to do with that. Germs in hers or something?

Shell, we live separately. It's a fairly recent relationship, we've been together about a month.

I have no clue what the **** is going through her mind right now, but I am really not happy. Back when he and I were starting to get together, she called a couple of times at rather obscene hours. Once at 11:45 pm, when everyone was asleep, and once at about 7:45 am on a Saturday, when everyone was asleep. Not amused.

I have no clue what she's trying to do, but I know I am not pleased with it.

Weeeee! Last night was the first night in a very long time that my fiance and I fell asleep together in each other's arms! :love:

Call us weird, but when we sleep, my body temp drops to about 96 degrees, while hers seems to rise to 100 degrees, she always complaigns that I feel like ice, and I always complaigns that she's so damn hot that it makes me sweat. So we usually sleep at the oppisite ends of our bed. :rolleyes:

But for some reason, we fell asleep together and woke up still entwined. Sure, my legs and left arm are killing me, but I'd say it's worth it. :love:

Again, call us weird, but when you have a signifacantly different body temp, heart rate, and breathing timing than your partner, it makes sleeping quite hard. :pope: :rolling:

I hear ya, Kitrax. One night I was sleeping (had a night off work), and suddenly my gf picks up the blanket and throws it to the ground. So I wake up and say "WTF?", and she answers me that I vent so much heat that she was suffocating under the blanket. I laugh, and I fall asleep again. She gets closer to me, and she feels so damn cold that I feel like there's a block of ice strapped to my back, so I wake up shivering. Bah. :flaming:

Laiwethel, if your boyfriend doesn't tell his ex to F-off then you have to worry. You know that you can't trust the ex, but you have to trust your boyfriend or you will have problems with your relationship.

@ DoTW :lol: I was just making a comment about the title of the thread DoTW...I wasn't trying to make anyone change it. I'm not anal, honest! :roll: :rolling:

Hehe, well, after picking a closer at the look at the thread, I realized that you were right, Dfly, and it's true that Relationship Rant sounded pretty negative, so I added another part to signify that it's not just negative rants going on here. The first RRT was pretty negative, but in this one, things have improved. Will RRT #3 be sugary sweet and hyper-positive, I wonder...? :shake:

Oh, and I finally located the bastard with who my ex cheated on me with! It's time for a payback! He's gonna suffer, oh yes. He'll curse the day he crossed the Shadow Scorpion... FEEL MY STING! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Maybe it should be the Random Relationship Babbling thread? ;)

It looks like he's told her to bugger off, which I'm happy about.

Now I'm just hoping she doesn't decide to "surprise" him.

She might herself be quite surprised. There is a lot of unsubstantiated confidence in that one. ;)

Zapped the name once again thanks to fair Shell's suggestion. Call me whimsical if it makes you feel good, I don't mind, because I AM whimsical. :D

Good to hear he told her to f*** off, Lai. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that everything will be okay.

Ofelix and Saber, any news from your potential conquests?

Indeed I have news bad one in fact... I may have lost a lover still I still have a friend. :( :o

The worst is I thought she was single but no! She is still with that guy from France. It's been two years they haven't meet. Bah I sincerely thought that story was over! If I knew I wouldn't have... wouldn't.

/me go hide

[ January 26, 2006, 22:50: Message edited by: Ofelix ]

Whaaaaaaaaaat? She's with a Frenchie from FRANCE? They haven't seen each other for TWO years?

Ridiculous.

Well, at lease you tried, Ofelix... take that as a small consolation.

Kitrax and Disciple: I seem to be having the same problem falling asleep with my girlfriend. Or maybe it's just her bed. I cannot for the life of me sleep in that bed. We've tried 3-4 times now, and I get lik3 2-3 hours of sleep at the most. We're trying my bed later tonight.

If thats the worse thing that happens in this relationship, then'll be quite happy. Tired, but happy.

Don't hide, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You haven't done anything wrong. And you haven't lost a lover in her because you've never had a lover in her in the first place. ;)

Don't hide, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You haven't done anything wrong. And you haven't lost a lover in her because you've never had a lover in her in the first placeAren't you tired of always being right ? How can I argue with that kind of wisdom? Ahhh still :o

Darn Chevalier and his high wisdom score :rolleyes: :lol:

PS; for those who wondered; I wept, in a very manly way of course.

EDIT; Forgot me past time, To weep is wept not weeped. Sorry!

[ January 27, 2006, 04:18: Message edited by: Ofelix ]

Even manly men cry, don't worry about the tears.


And Chev, why are you always right (in here at least ;) )?

I'm sorry Ofelix :(

I prefer venting a trop-plein of emotions by smashing something than crying. My fatalist view on life usually takes care of the rest.

But hey, to everyone it's way of venting emotions.

And Chev should be a freakin psychologist.

Okay, after many weeks of staring at this thread but not being man enough to post, I guess i'll give it a shot.

Damn, prom is in about a month. There's this girl that I never really knew I had a crush on until this summer while watching her cheer during football season. I have been completely obsessed... Can't stop thinking about her, mouth dry, you know the drill. She is in my grade, (an odd thing for me ;) , not that i'm exactly the player I wish i was... *sigh*) She has all the overachiever classes with me and is INCREDIBLY brilliant, winning the state math thingy sophomore year and prolly going to do it again this year-- and she's a goddess.

Her bestest friend (another goddess) is okay friends with me and like my best friends best friend, and the idiot spilled to her my feelings about her friend. (this was around November lol, so she has known a while but I don't know if she knows... I've been picking up 'signs' but they are my imagination :/)

Well, I am rambling on so I'll get to my point. I'm very insecure about asking her to go with me, as I left the game January 5th of last year when a girl I was dating brokered my heart-- for my best friend. (long story, she broked mine, I hated my friend, then she brokered his for another guy, I was the *bigger* man and forgave him because after all, friends are the greatest and most important things to have, and we're still best buds) Well, I have been out of the player game and my skillz (what little i had...) are incredibly dull, my car is broken but hopefully will get fixed by the time it rolls around, and she hasn't had a boyfriend I think ever. Hard to believe for one like her... Anyways, if she DID say yes i'm worried about not being able to talk to her, I have no problem with other girls but with her I feel the stakes are incredibly high and don't want to look like an idiot so I hardly say anything...

Bah, you guys think Im an idiot now. Help me work up some courage man!

Okay, sorry for the previous one but I was in a bit of a hurry, hadn't really eaten anything and only had one coffee... long story. Shouldn't probably have written anything. ;)

So, okay, let's forget about the ex or whoever she was, the one who broke your heart. ;)

However, the point stands that your current crush is one of the most desirable targets around, so make sure you're into her and it's not about proving to yourself that you can catch her if you try. You don't need to go out with cool girls to be a cool guy, don't need to be cool to be a guy, and so and so forth.

Another point is that you get to see her cheering during sporty events and it affects you. Look, cheerleaders are supposed to be appealing, so no wonder. But don't overrate that impression. ;) If you took a random girl off the street and spent some serious buck on the stylist, you would get a top model. ;) Don't know about your school, but nowadays cheerleaders are often given not just cute but simply sexy outfits and sexy poses and moves. With all that skin and underwear in the air, no wonder a guy's brain is turned to goo. ;)

Well, but if you really think it's about her and not about her being a good target... then just walk up to her and ask her. Simple as it is. :p

Otherwise... what I said before. Leave her alone and look for someone who's there for you.

[ January 27, 2006, 17:13: Message edited by: chevalier ]

and she hasn't had a boyfriend I think everChev, the girl he wants hasn't had a boyfriend yet. The girl you are talking about was his ex.

Yeah, it's only Lauries bed I can't sleep in. We slept great last night in my bed.

Chev's analysis went boinkers, it seems. Jigga's in trouble now.

Do you want me to consult Mrs Palm for you?

Jiggajay: So maybe if you have same classes together, you should get to know her a little better. This means that she'll know you a little better as well. If she's the smart girl she seems to be, then it would really pay off to know her, maybe have her as a friend at first. If you adore her, be nice to her and let her smile be the reward.

Cool those feelings a little, the fact that you adore her is nice, but you might just be in love with the idea of her you have constructed in your mind. If you don't know her, then you can't tell what she's really like.

This is in no contradiction with taking her out on a date, but I know very little about dating so that's not exactly anything where my counsel would necessarily be of any use. In any case dating is a way of getting to know her; don't emphasize the meaning of taking her out too much. Talk to her, listen carefully to what she says, have wonderful conversations, maybe you'll find that you have a lot in common, that you have similar aspirations and maybe you'll find out that she likes you as well.

Best of luck, in any case.

Edit: a typo!

Erm... Chev? You missed the point kinda... Yeah...

And Susi, go ahead and consult Ms. Palm :)

Erm, right. Editing. ;)

yes but Chev, its not just the outfit-- thats a great bonus though :) She is brilliant, always smiling, ALWAYS laughing. Trust me, it's definitely NOT because she's one of the "cool" girls and I need to prove myself, I don't need to prove myself to anyone in my class because they all adore me :) (where do you think i got the name jiggajay? XP) She's one of those nice girls who ALWAYS does her homework and is flustered (and cute >.>) when "unprepared" for a speech or some other assignment.

yes, I am DEFINITELY into HER.

*goes on staring at sky and being a hopeless romantic...*

Then go for it. It's that simple.

Less talk, more action, Jigga! Stop talking about it and go for it!

I definitively need something to do to change my mind, quick! Like real quick it's driving me mad!

Play some old BG1 or Morrowind, Ofelix. That's what I'm gonna do in a few minutes. Keeps the boredom away, though I can't stop thinking about my sweetie.

Err... What about table tennis? Or Fox hunting? Wait... they banned that. Bugger.

Oh! Computer Games! Thank God for that, eh? I owe Prince of Persia: the Sands of Time a debt for filling time after splitting up with my ex, not to mention NWN: SoU. The whole time dilation effect of "just 15 more minutes" works wonders, I find. ;)

Well, JiggaJay, in her case, it looks unlikely that she's into cheerleading for the sexy thing. If she's flustered when less than 100% prepared for a class and has never really had a boyfriend... (Don't trust such conclusions too much, though. ;) ) However, you must bear in mind that other guys get to see her the way you do and they react the way you do. You must also be prepared with the fact that she's comfortable with that. I don't know what kind of clothes and moves it is in your school (I've seen everything, from cute to naughty), but if it's something naughty, you should consider what I said. :) A guy's perspective on such things changes a couple of weeks or months (or years) into the relationship. Many guys fall for such things but make a problem out of them later on. Just don't seek a problem where there's none but try to keep a cool head. ;)

Oh, and if you approach her, don't behave as if she were a celebrity and you were her fan. ;) You wouldn't like to have a worshipper of a girlfriend, either, would you? ;)

My GF is very depressed since her long time friend commited suicide. And she fails to listen to my words (I tell her not to think about it). Instead she brings back names of her friends who died. I need to undertake some serious actions.

Try to keep your male problem-solving thinking advice to a minimum, Undertaker. ;) Just be there for her, listen, surround her with love, let her see there is good stuff in the world.

I think that will get you further in the end. :) You can't just banish things from your thoughts after all. :)

First of all she needs a hug. A very strong and long hug. Then maybe she won't think about it. As for me, being a driver, I encounter death every week. I just don't think about some things, it wouldn't change a thing, I can't help them, no one can. Death is certain, life is not.

[qoute]First of all she needs a hug. A very strong and long hug.[/quote]

Then thats all you should be doing. My girlfriend is the same way when she gets upset about things.

She has terrible dreams, about friends of hers that have died and some about her sister, her best friends and myself dieing in the same way. It's always the same dream, of us all being attacked by someone. When she has this dream, she whimpers and jumps in he sleep, so right away I know what to do. Just wake her up and wrap my arms around her.

Instead of trying to fix things with logic and words, all us guys should know/learn that the best we can do when a girl is upset, is give them something to hold onto and talk at.

Yeah, you're right. I won't acomplish anything with logic and words. A simple hug makes wonders.

Agreed. Where logic fails, emotions prevail. I also agree about the famous "Death is certain, life is not" adage. Life is extremely fragile.

Death is the only inescapable, unavoidable, sure thing. We are sentenced to die the day we're born.
Although there are many people which don't want to hear it.
The fragile art of existance...

Everything that begins must end. Everything that grows withers. Fear of death is irrational. Death is the end of one thing, but the beginning of another.

Back on topic, I still hate long-distance.

Instead of trying to fix things with logic and words, all us guys should know/learn that the best we can do when a girl is upset, is give them something to hold onto and talk at. :thumb: Not that rational talking is out of the question, but if we feel really vulnerable a simple hug will generally help us more than a long analysis of the problem.

Sounds like you know how to take care of it, then, Undertaker. :) Good luck. :)

It's not an exclusively male thing, actually. :shake:

Heh, you guys contemplate death way too much... me, I just live my life. Sure, I'll die, and I'm not scared of the thought, but hell, might as well live the best I can. We only get one life.

Still thinking of Catherine It's really begening to be unhealthy... I must stop, I know it's irrational and completely stupid but I just can't let out of me mind! Arr!

So stop complaining. Accept the fact that you think of her. ;) And think of her, if you want. Pretending she doesn't exist won't do any good.

@Iku-Turso: Skimming through the page once again, I ended up re-reading your post and perhaps there's something we could explain. I don't know what exactly you mean by dating... I think the way it was used when I was a bit younger, there was no contradiction between being friends and going on a date. Well, it was just going somewhere with someone of the opposite gender. Not necessarily much different from going to the same kind of place with a friend of your own gender. But nowadays I think people are inclined to see it as something romantic or sexual by default. I guess what I'm trying to say is that too much romantic atmosphere crosses the line before which one can call it just friends. But I'm quite sure you agree with me on this one, so just for the sake of clarity...

Well, I've been newsless of my gf for a little while now, and it's worrying me. That's not her style. Something is brewing in the horizon, and I don't like the feeling I have.

well DotW...at this point I would put my self in the mindframe of getting bad news...if you don't its a pleasant surprise and if you do it won't hurt as bad.

Hugs make wonders :D Nuff said ;)

Congrats, Undertaker. :p

@DoTW: Can't phone her or something?

Such sad news here today... :(

I hope everybody's girl friend is doing better.

Well, I decided yesterday that the best way of forgetting my woman troubles was to get drunk at our Burns Night meal.

So I did.


I've just finished cleaning (with the immense help of my saintly younger brother), but it was definatley worth it.

I had a great evening, and I was too drunk to care when she turned up.

I DID phoned her, chev, I stumbled on the stupid voicemail. She still hasn't called back. This doesen't look good, at all. I'm waiting to hear from her, but I hate having to rely on my 5165 and it's anemic battery, 8 days standby mode, 4 minutes talk time. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Nah chev, this is a small school (80 ppl in my grade)and all they do are stunts and stuff (human pyramids, throwing into the air, nothing too baring... darn :) ) What I meant by flustered gets sad and worried, scared for her grade kind of thing and looks up and blows her hair. (thats right I noticed) and goes "oh no my speech is going to be terrible" and I say "make it up as you go along like I always do (I have a bluff check of like 23 i swear to god, even my teachers claim I am the god of BS) and get an A" and she goes "oh josh I'm not as good as you are I couldn't do that..."


Erm, got carried away there... And yes Chev, I would love to have a worshipper of a GF :D . And yes, I did a little less talk and did a little more actiion!!

I went to the basketball game Friday and couldn't help myself to staring a little >.> Well, my best bud got a note in his sweater saying "call me" and gave a cell number and I said "I wish I got those kind of things" (he's a playa) And he says "Josh, you gotta givem THE EYE. "Whats that?" I says, and he goes watch. The dork then spouts the name of the goddess of my affection and hides, she began looking our way, and I proceed to do THE EYE (i used to be good at it) and got a blush and a smile back, followed by a turn away :D . The dork laughs and says "dude, that was prolly the best thing I could have done for you." (he's best buds with her best friend, I dunno if they talk or not >()

Yes I take these kind of signals too far, but I am just weird like that. And I'm rambling again... Crap.

Ah yes, on the subject of death I think you only live once. So live it (I wish I could live it without regrets but I'm too much of a damn coward :*() Don't waste your time with death or BEING "GOOD" FOR FEAR OF AN AFTERLIFE (IE Religion) *waits for flaming comment*

Ah, I see. :) Looks like the classic, good cheerleading. ;) Throwing into the air can be lots of fun except I don't like the panty flashing involved in most cases. ;) It's not like I care a whole damn lot but I wouldn't like my daughter to do that.

Hehe, yes, I know the kind of flustered effect you're describing. It's quite cute. Geeky girls can be quite cute when they are in a bouncy mood from all the studying hype, as well. :D

Hehe again, looks like each of you overrates the other. :shake: Good for you. I sense real love there. :shake: ;)

Hehe yet again, good for you with the signals. ;) Except yes, don't overrate them. Sometimes it's nice and people are flattered but a relationship doesn't follow out of it in the long run. ;)

And I was good at that too. :D

Don't waste your time on being "good". Be good instead. ;)

[ January 30, 2006, 00:35: Message edited by: chevalier ]

YOU have a daughter? YOU!? THE ALMIGHTY CHEV?! :D

How old? ;) (kidding kidding >.> I'm already set on someone else.

Chev? A daughter? Unlikely. He's a bit older than I am, and besides, he's a good-thinking catholic waiting for marriage. :pope:

Well, guess what, she's alive. I received a cryptic email on my BlackBerry earlier in the evening, in which she told me her ISP was down, and out of airtime on her phone, and she also told me about an evening between friends during which she appearantly met someone, and extensively speaking of him.

It seems my bad feeling was probably justified. I'll try to find out more, but as for now, I'm revoking her status.

Jiggajay, you might as well go for it, before you fall into the horrible friend zone.

:lol: Guys, read chev's post more carefuly :p

@DoTW: Erm. Okay, as a person experienced in listening to crappy excuses, allow me to point out the following:

Her ISP was down from when to when? "My ISP was down on Saturday from 1 to 2 PM." I'm obviously exaggerating but sometimes girls follow this kind of logic.

Out of airtime on her phone... from when to when and why didn't she care to contact you in some other way? Plus, what did she use the airtime on?

Extensively speaking of a male she met during an evening between friends? Hehe, sorry. The meaning is only one. Even if she doesn't realise that. Plus, why would she be telling you? Come on, if she had been offline and off limits for several days and that was her first quick e-mail to her boyfriend, why would she even mention a male friend, let alone elaborate on him like that? Go realism! :rolleyes:

You know, girls sometimes feel the need to tell their boyfriends about the great guys they meet. And they expect boyfriends to be happy for them meeting such a great guy or something. Heck, one of them told me how great it was finally to be able to kiss some guy she used to have a crush on. I was enough of an idiot not to dump her.

I suppose your girlfriend, by that creepy cryptic e-mail is giving you the hint to stop contacting her. Come on, that's such a low style. It's not something a friend would do. If this were to prove true, I would revoke her status as a friend as well, if I were in your shoes.

@Chevalier: Thank's for clarifying dating...thought as much, but since I've dated someone only once, I've little experience on the subject. And I'd like to go out with a girl, as her for a coffe or something and wouldn't think of it as something else than spending some time with a member of the opposite sex, but maybe that's just me, I might be a little too old-fashioned for that matter.

@DoTW: That sucks, truly. And you can't even ask her what's your status to her without ending up looking stupid. I'd pretend that she doesn't exist until she'd try to make contact...but if I was actually in the same situation I'd try to call her all the time, leave several e-mails and voice-mails and act all desperate and worried. Some women might enjoy that kind of thing, although if they'd do it on purpose, they'd be too sadistic for my liking.

@Iku-Turso: Yes, that's how I like it as well. When someone asks a girl on a date, it's almost like "Good morning, citizen. Will you go to the cinema with me, snuggle during and make out after the film?" It's not very polite to make such requests and it I find it cheap of people to agree. Besides, I don't even think it's wrong for a "taken" person to go to a dance or something with another "taken" person, I just dislike the way people get around to certain things or the way they share them with more than one person at a time.

As for DoTW's girlfriend, I think she's blaming herself and shifting it on him to escape the blame.

Heh, no I won't play her ****ing game. And Chev, that would be ex-girlfriend.

I DID revoked her status, both as gf and friend. I don't listen to crappy excuses and I told her explicitly that I was seriously disappointed by her lack of honesty. To think I known her for 18 years, and never saw THAT coming. Regardless, I had little faith in long-distance and it seems I was proven right. At any rate, freedom is sweet. I truly loved and liked that girl, but whatever I felt towards her did a 360. And count on me to stop contacting her. I explicitly told her so. I topped up airtime in my phone, and got a new phone number (by ricochet, a new email address) in the process. That's what makes Rogers great.

Chalk one more on the board of crappy relationships that soured, I guess.

I would do the same thing. Trust and respect are fundamental in a relationship.

Trust and respect are fundamental in a relationship. My thoughts exactly. She disrespected me and killed whatever trust I had. Now she's paid the price, though I think she cares not. She's in love, now. :rolleyes:

Well, I wouldn't blame her so much for just falling for someone else... guess that's more of a weakness (either in falling for him so easily or for having fallen for you easily and shallowly before) than fault. That's not so bad as dishonesty. Whether fault or weakness, it's not something to enjoy in your friends. She probably panicked and I suppose she still hasn't finished the age of raging hormones and instability, so don't be too hard on her. ;) But yeah, certain things are done for.

I talked with the girl today, and she told me that she felt the same way about me, and we have decided to start dating, I guess (I find the term 'dating' kind of stereotypical and annoying, but I'm just saying we are together, or whatever you young'ns call it these days ;) ). So, happy news from the east coast (America's east coast, at least). :D :D

Best of luck, Saber.

I had to dump mine today, and it wasn't exactly a good day. Seems you're lucky when I'm unlucky and the opposite.

I'm sorry man :(

We do seem to be on opposite ends of the love stick, aye. But hey, look on the brightside: Now there's one less dishonest person in your life. Its better to get them out of your life now then to wait until, say, it was true/absolute love, when there is no turning back...

I suggest you eat really hot salsa, drink coke zero to wash the burning away, and play kickass video games for multiple hours.

Screw that *****. Life goes on as it did before she came into my life. I can see a fair stretch of singledom ahead, but I care not. That how it's always been. I need a drink.

[ January 31, 2006, 05:15: Message edited by: Disciple of The Watch ]

Better off single than in a toxic relationship or wasting time on something you think is a relationship but objectively is a sham.

Aye, words of wisdom again. Take it from me, wasting time, no matter how good time it might seem to be, on a sham is pointless.

Having broken up with my gf about a month and a half ago I'm seeing that relationship from a different angle. It wasn't that great in the first place. The thing probably started from us both needing some serious support, and we gave each other that, but maybe we never really loved each other. We actually never had that romantic 'falling in love' - phase or it was way too short, which should've been a dead giveaway not to start the whole thing in the first place.

Now that that relationship's over, I feel great! Whatever regrets I had are gone. Sure I've missed her from time to time. But amazingly not that much. And I think I'm better off without her, since life's looking really good right now! Wonder if she was holding me back and making me feel down for all these years...well you'll never know, and which ever way it was, it's now over. Should I keep a break-up party? :beer:

I say go for it. Break up parties sound good to me, especially if there's beer, gaming, and lots of food. America today, and I imagine the same is true in the rest of the world, too, seems to think that if you aren't in a relationship, you are either bitter, unlovable, or just plain stupid, as if relationships were the only sensible way to go. Live life on your own for a while. If you happen to meet a nice, interesting girl along the way, let whatever happen that happens, but don't go looking for trouble.
Ok, now I feel real bad, 'cause I'm in what is now a 4-year relationship that is fast on the way to marriage and I just talked a lot about not dating and all, but let me qualify. This great relationship I'm in came about because I was just being me, on my own, and I smacked right into her, being her self, on her own, and we were friends before we started dating. This is how good, long term relationships usually start, not a night of picking girls up in a bar, or chat room, or whatever.

Yes, I recommend white wine. ;)

Red wine's better :p

I need some advice. The bf is currently in a major funk and is not coming out of it. It's about school and the general state of the human race. I know where he's coming from because 5 years ago, I was in that same state, but I don't know how to help him, or even if I can.

Any suggestions?

Laiwethel - what is a 'major funk'? Isn't "funkiness" a good thing? You make it sound bad.

Funk = depression.

He may need help in the form of presence and a hug, but he might as well need to solve it totally on his own as is often the case with people with depression. Perhaps he could use help with managing his daily affairs, that and some support. You may be able to get him to open up if you insist strongly enough to make it work but no so strongly as to make him feel attacked... I think. But they often lock up and say nothing.

You could get him to go to a specialist if it's serious enough and he doesn't seem to be able to work it out on his own. But sometimes specialist can give people the feeling that their matters are safe being taken care of by someone else, so they don't have to take a grip of themselves.

Tell him that he has no control over 'the state of the world' so there's no point getting upset over it. Help him focus on the things that he is good at and can get a sense of achievement, rather than helplessness, from.

Break up party? Ironic because I'm having one saturday. Screw wine, it's spirits and Mary-Jane all along for me. If you fellas weren't so damn far away, I'd invite nearly ya all.

And Chev is right, he might need to solve it all by himself. That is what I did when I had my manic-depression. It scrapped my relationship with my ex because she couldn't understand I wanted to get through that alone.

My, my heart..... It... It bleeds.... Owww.....

My best bud in the whole wide world called with some bad news... A f** by the name of Kyle has dumped his GF to ask the one and only person of my affection to prom...... Not only that, she doesn't like him.... OR ME (heh, f****** figures....) And even if we DID go it would be awkward as hell because she doesn't.... As it prolly will be if she goes with him..... I don't know what to think, sorry if this post doesn't make sense i'm still comprehending what my friend said.... He says I should just forget her because she likes nobody and will never like anybody (which is prolly true) but I was so worked up and hopeful that what I wanted would come true and we would go and all that.... As I have learned ever so harshly all my life, hope is THE WORST backstabber in all the world.... It's even better at sneak attacks than me and batman working together... and that is saying a lot. I guess he basically has a claim to her now and any action taken by me will result in huge her friendage going to war with me.... I'm going to talk to her best friend (against mine's wishes) about what the hell is going on, but I expect the worst because that's what always happens to me... Now prom is prolly going to be a very lonely night with just me and my baby-- the computer.

I don't wanna believe she doesn't like me, its just what I've heard from my friend and I want another source, but I fear just pushing it will make the heartbreak even worse... But I must know. I can't believe it, I don't want to. But that's EXACTLY the attitude that caused my one and only other major ripping of it out of my chest, getting it stomped and torn to pieces and then fed to a goldfish (who then later died because the heart was so utterly destroyed and blackened and bitter)

What do I do now?? Continue pursuing and ask her friend???!! Forget her after all those months of adoration?! Look for another girl to go to prom with which will be terrible cuz the whole time I will wish it was the other girl and then see her at the dance with another guy and go ballistic?? Go alone and try to rogue other peoples dates off them because I'm so depressed? (I would never do that even to my worst enemy because it's been done to me) Try to rogue her off of him? (risky with .00001 percent chance of success) Stay at home and play comp so that later in life I can look back at my life and be full of regret?!

Jeebus I sound like an idiot rambling on about this on the internet of all places.... Why do I use ellipses so much.... and parenthesis.... why why why....?? I know I sound stupid and this post prolly has tons of flaws in grammar and sentence structure that will mean different things than what I'm saying but bear with me... don't be too harsh in pointing out my idiocy too please....

*sobs and ponders*

First, tone down on the adoration. Girls are quite amazing creatures but they are as mortal as you are. You will notice when you've killed your first. Nah, just kidding. :evil:

Seriously, though, don't cling to her like she's your living air and your only hope for survival. Listen to all the people who have something to tell but don't make too much of it, especially if they aren't being particularly coherent.

Girls aren't property, so don't worry too much about his claim to her, if she actually seems to like you that way, which you still need to find out.

Don't freak out about "months of adoration". That's a bit like being reluctant to let go because of all the investment you've made. That's a healthy instinct but remember it would be quite ironic to spend two years in a doomed relationship just because you didn't want to let go of a couple of month's effort of chasing a girl.

Leave the ****ing computer alone, stop freaking out about grammar, friends and the like and go ask the girl. And *don't* deliver a speech before asking her. Ask her about *you*, not about the other guy. If she likes you, the other guy is irrelevant. If she doesn't like you, the other guy is not your problem. As for her friends or other people not liking it, you aren't going out with them.

I agree with Chev. I know its hard to do, but just work up the nerve and ask her out. If she says no, she has no taste and it wouldn't be any good, if she says yes, just be prepared for heaven.
As for the guy in the funk, let me talk from experience, as I have periodic bouts of depression (psychologicsl, not reasonable) and my girlfriend, being a psych major, understands. Support, hugs, generally distracting behavior, and see if you can get him to openly talk about it. That's what helps me the most, just ranting for half an hour with my gf listening. She doesn't even need to say anything, just as long as she's really listening, or doing a good job of pretending.

I wouldn't ask her out (as in, on a date), but instead ask her if she is attracted to you. And yes, keep it short, something like "Hey, I really like you, and I just wanted to know if you felt the same way." Don't ramble on, and don't take her friends' (or yours friends') answers to be fact. Get it from her.

*with blurry eyes*

It's too late... She was asked today by that kid who dumped his GF..... And said yes. the funny thing is it's still 6 F****** weeks til prom.... Woe is me!! WOE IS ME!!! G********** SON OF A ***** MOTHER ****** PIECE ***** ***** OF ******* AAAGGGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stupid small town.... Stupid stupid me... too damn slow...

What now!? WHAT NOW!?

How about telling her that you regret not asking her sooner and that you like her-like her and that if she changes her mind about going with the guy, you are more than willing to take her to the prom?

Ara makes a good point here, Jigga.

Yeah. Besides, what kind of guy it is who dumps a girlfriend to be able to ask a hottie to go with him to a prom?

However, the girl in question has actually accepted. So, either she accepted knowing what he did, or she she accepted a prom invitation from a guy she doesn't know **** about. Either way, I would stay away from that girl.

And there are many girls in the world. More than guys, actually. Hehe. Maybe this is a hint that you should take a wider look and ask someone else?

Oh, and back in the time, my prom date was a friend who had a boyfriend IIRC (don't remember, and we had just one dance in the beginning) and I made a tour of my good friends of whom probably all were taken. :D

Personally, I say let her go. Odds are you wouldn't get along with her in the long run, her being a brainless bimbo (guess) and you a total nerd (educated guess, join the club). Find someone who can match you intelectually, or at least come close. If they don't exist in your area, weep then.

Words of wisdom: Don't waste your time with *****es, Jigga. Life's too short for that.

I recently got rid of my own ***** and I can't say I'm sad. More the opposite, actually, I feel like throwing a huge party.

You all need to learn to drift through life. You seem to be trying to take too much control. Things tend to blow up when you do that, both figuratively and literally. Just let things happen and learn to coast.

With relationships, it's always better to let things develop naturally, of course, and one screw-up won't cross all your potential chances in life, but while obsessions aren't healthy and believing that one is personally responsible for everything isn't healthy, I don't think taking things as they come is always the perfect way. If you keep insisting on drifting, you could end up finding out what the natural course is and following it on your own... which is actually an active action, so... Well, just a thought, anyway.

and believing that one is personally responsible for everything isn't healthy True, true. But if a relationship is unsuccesful for whatever reason, if you took the slice of wisdom to heart, then it was worth it.

NOG, she's a freaking genius. Math state champ two years running now. Not a bimbo, a very nice girl... Ask Chev, he'll tell you all about it :D

AAhh... It's so hard seeing her in all my classes... She wore her hair down today, and I about... Well, that's a little inappropriate ;) I'm gonna follow Ara's advice (thank you!!) and say I regret not asking sooner... Meh..

*listens to "I will survive*"

Don't! It will make you chase her prom date! :D

I recently realized that I don't actually even want a relationship right now. I mean REALLY realized. The idea finally sank in..

So now my only problem is to make tell this woman I've exchanged letters with, that I'm:

not really her type (and vice versa...)
not ready to start a relationship right now
not romantically interested in her
and just want to be friends with her

I hope she takes it the right way, and won't be offended. She really is quite interesting, good looking, smart, honest, funny and everything you might imagine, and were I in a different situation in my life I might want think different about this, but now that things are starting to go little too fast it dawned on me that I'm just not ready. I thought I had these feelings for her, but it turned out that I was just alleviating my loneliness with silly ideas.

I don't want to be committed to anyone right now, but the bad thing is that it has probably seemed that way to her, since I really like exchanging thoughts and ideas with her and might have made some innuendoes suggesting otherwise in my foolishness.

I'd really like to have her as a friend and I hope that she doesn't have any ideas further than that. Otherwise this could turn a little ugly.

Edit: all signs point out to 'she won't take it well', and 'you're dead meat'
Sometimes I wish I had even the faintest idea of what I'm actually doing...

[ February 04, 2006, 12:26: Message edited by: Iku-Turso ]

Iku, did you ever think of telling her that you're just not ready? I know that if it were me on the recieving end I would much rather have the truth :)

"Seek the truth and it shall make you free."

Always works. Except freedom comes with responsibility, so one isn't always immediately ready for it, but it's always the best way in the long run...

My girlfriend and I had our first fight last night, and it was over the stupidest thing. Drunk driving. She was a little drunk and wanted to drive home, I'm so adamantley against drinking and driveing it's not even funny. I already had a girlfriend killed because of a drunk driver. I'm not haveing another one die, because of it.

I ended up grabbing her keys, and pocketing them, until we were ready to leave. When she apologized, she said she knew she was wrong, but she didn't feel as if she could back down, because she had gone so far. It was ****ing stupid, I couldn't believe she would argue to that extreme against me over drinking and driveing. I almost broke up with her on the spot. She doesn't know that, but I almost ended it then and there.

I can't date someone who would endanger themselves and others that willingly. I'm going to have lay down a ground rule concerning that today. If she ever drinks and drives again, I'm gone, ****ing gone. I don't have very many things I take that firm of a stance on, but drinking and driveing is one of them.

Shell and Chev are right here, ex-Ichor. Honesty will win the day.

I already had a girlfriend killed because of a drunk driver I know too well what it's like. I lost the love of my life and my unborn daughter in an accident involving a drunk driver. It happened nearly 4 years ago.

I've got a question...there is this girl who I had dated a year or two ago. I broke up with her because I was moving outside the country hence I hadn't seen her since then until last summer. Last summer when I was back at my country I've found out that she was studying at China and since then I've been in touch with her over online messenger, e-mail or whatnots as a friend. Now here's the question...do you guys think that she would like get back togther if I ask her? or is it just not possible? (sorry for poor English...kinda hard to tell such story like this...and hard to describe details cause I'm not even sure)

Yes, but of course, such things are always possible if sometimes difficult. As always, I would suggest talking and, also as always, being as natural about it as possible. Easier said than done, of which myself, I'm a perfect example. ;)

That, and I'm not sure if it's such a good idea to get back together. Realistically, there's no sense in sticking to the "no come-backs" rule in case of a relationship that can work. However, also realistically, break-ups do happen for a reason. I guess the best thing to do is to make sure you aren't just escaping singledom (which isn't worth it) or dismissing a chance of something great for the sake of pride or a rule (aka no come-backs policy). The golden middle... Enter Aristotle. :rolling:

Back to my philosophical studies. :shake:

Iku, I don't think there are many people who know what they're doing ;) just one of those things.

I'm currently half in half out of a relationship, and all because of she has a bf...dammit, I sometimes feel guilty, yet other times I don't feel guilty at all. He kinda knows, yet does nothing, I kinda wish he would tell me to eff off...

At the mo, I think I'm gonna stick to receiving all the hugs and kisses that come with being the bit on the side :p , although I'm gonna ask the girl to make up her mind whether to leave her bf at some point...

*sigh* sometimes life just isn't like in the movies...they lie! :D

This is more of just a random "let off steam" session, so you can just ignore it if you want...writing helps me focus...

Geez Dave :/

No offense, but as someone that's been cheated on and wouldn't consider cheating, I'm on the boyfriend's side on this one. The girl is the most culpable though, once again no offense meant.

Check out the song "The Other Man" by Sloan :p

@Dave: I have a problem with guys who let their girlfriends play a bit on the side. Probably more than with actually playing around a bit with someone else's girlfriend. After all, girlfriends aren't property. As they aren't property, though, it's not like one should forbid or prevent a girlfriend from playing around a bit with someone else. One should just dump her, throw a party and move on. :rolleyes: :p

Erm, and what she's doing to her boyfriend at the moment, she will feel justified in doing when she's with you and finds another guy. Either that or she will screw justifying and do as she damn well please anyway. Dump her and move on. Do you really want a wife flirting on the side with workmates? That's what you're en route to getting. ;)

Babeuf, Saint-Simon, here I come! :rolling:

Erm, and what she's doing to her boyfriend at the moment, she will feel justified in doing when she's with you and finds another guy Bingo, that's it right there Chev.

Well, for those who care, it's been exactly 4 years today since I lost my fiancee and unborn daughter in that car accident.

A toast to their memory. :beer:

/me toasts

I know exactly what you guys are saying, and well, me and her just get caught up in the moment, and enjoy eachothers company alot...I do feel bad, thats why I want the bf to tell me to get lost, because it would make it easier to leave...but I really like her...anyway, I appretiate the comments, and everything, but I'd like to fly this one on my own...so just forget I said anything...thanks again :)

/me joins the toast

Raising a glass over here too. Here's to them.

Woah, Disciple. That's heavy. I feel sad now.

@DoTW: To honour their memory, don't drop your standards. But you already know this, don't you...

@Dave: I'm not sure if the bf has any right to tell you to get lost. I wouldn't do that if I were in his shoes.

Thanks to everyone who joined in the toast to the memory of the two woman of my life. It really means a lot to me. Thanks again, you guys.

Had things taken a different turn, our daughter would be three years and a half. We even had her name chosen. *sigh*

It pisses me off to an extreme that the one moron's decision to drive drunk resulted in my losing the two woman of my life. I hope the scum suffers the same fate I did.

Very sorry for your loss DoTW. Same feeling as HB on the matter, very heavy.

On the note of having 'a bit on the side' the way how I found my girlfriend was by dating various women using the whole scattergun theory. Chatting to any girl I met that I found attractive. I was dating 6 girls at one time and I saw 3 on the same day once (breakfast, lunch and dinner, damn that day hit my wallet hard). By dating I mean seeing but not very often, I wouldn't be surprised if they were seeing other men also. However when I decided that I liked my current girlfriend more than all the others (our second date) I was quick to tell the other 5 the next time they rang me that I'm happy to see them as a friend but I am currently taken. Many were sad and two were very angry, I felt quite guilty about it actually howeverI also feel quite justified since I'm deeply in love with my girlfriend.

Yes I did sleep with some of the girls who I was dating, 4 of the 5 that didn't make the cut in fact.

Am I scum? Was what I did wrong? I never promised these girls anything but I guess by sleeping with them I silently did. What are your thoughts guys and girls?

Might have dodged a bullet here...

First she took it bad, but then she got over it.

We're still penpals. Exchanging some very interesting ideas..

Sorry about your loss DotW, that's pretty rough..

@Chev

@Dave: I'm not sure if the bf has any right to tell you to get lost. I wouldn't do that if I were in his shoes. just to clarify, we're not talking about Dave's case any more, but generalizing. why not? I'm all for "women aren't property" and all that, but if you have an arrangement (the whole official bf-gf thing) i'm definitely going to go on the other side of the fence and say that the bf does have the right to do that. Smarter move would probably be to dump the girl and maintain the "vulnerable, loveable and didn't do anything wrong" image for the other girls ;) but the bf would definitely have the right to tell the other guy to back up if he wanted to stay with the girl imo.

@Abom

Am I scum? Was what I did wrong? I never promised these girls anything but I guess by sleeping with them I silently did. No. In my mind, it's like a contract, if you guys haven't both agreed to be dating exclusively you both still have the right to see other people. If one person got the wrong impression and gets hurt, that's unfortunate, but as long as there was no mutual agreement on exclusivity there's no "right" to get mad. A right to be disappointed maybe but not to be rightfully angry.

He has the right to tell his gf to leave the other guy alone but the "right" to tell other guys to stay away from your gf is a bit weaker. It's not a great thing for them to do, of course, but it's not like you have such a claim. It's different for married people, though. At any rate, fidelity is between partners and the other people didn't promise anything. ;)

And but of course. What I thought about was dumping the girl and not bearing a huge grudge against that other guy. ;)

@Abomination, Enagonios:

I don't want to judge anyone specific, but I can talk a bit about the concept. I believe non-exclusive dating is wrong. Many people, actually including "hardcore Christians" disagree. Allowing someone to harbour misconceptions is not the same as making a promise one doesn't intend to keep. But by claiming the results of such misconceptions (such as sleeping with a girl because she thinks one loves her and wants to be with her) is benefitting from those misconceptions. That's too close to misleading her for my taste. Especially when the convention is that people date exclusively or have sex only with an exclusive date, doing it the other way is breaching a custom which shields you with the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes it's so naive as grabbing an apple from a stall and saying you thought it was put up for the taking rather than for sale. Don't know if this sounds clear but what I basically mean is that silent, implied promises are still wrong to use for egoistic purposes, break, go back on etc. In a scenario different from a quick hump between two strangers, sex is not even a promise but more a statement of having a relationship. By human nature, relationships are monogamous and exclusive, faithful, so that's what people assume.

If I were to build on Enagonios's law metaphor, I would say that whatever goes beyond friendship is already a contract and one that's executed immediately after contraction. Such as when you swap a loaf of bread for a coin, you strike the contract and execute it at the same time. Sometimes contracts are concluded symbolically by performing an action. Only the action is performed and the specific terms and conditions aren't spelt out but they are believed to exist. To be modified, they would have to be either 1) totally obvious to be different for one party so that anyone more intelligent than a retard would notice, 2) specifically spelt out what is changed.

In some places and/or groups of people, some activities (mouth kissing, open mouth kissing, sex) are interpreted as the beginning of a relationship, confirmation that the people involved are already in a relationship (or consumption of it, which amounts to the same in practical terms), or just an indication of interest or even just a little fun without obligations. Therefore, before engaging in any of those, I would make sure everyone knows what's going on and there's no misunderstanding.

So yes, this means that if I were single and met a nice girl, I wouldn't kiss her until I knew she isn't into non-exclusive relationships (or just unfaithful to someone). At least in normal circumstances. And no this doesn't mean, "if I'm not drunk enough." :shake: And I would try to avoid her developing the misconception I'm OK with her doing the same with someone else. ;)

[ February 07, 2006, 20:19: Message edited by: chevalier ]

Abomination:
I mostly agree with Chev, here. If you develope any kind of physical relationship (even kissing) or a long-term(3 dates or more in my book) relationship with the intent of physical developement, that should be exclusive.
On the other hand, I have no problem with the idea of 'shopping around' to the extent that you actually want to get to know the girl a little before you make it exclusive. One date should not make it exclusive unless it was the perfect date. Also realize that she may be thinking something very different from you, so the best bet is, if you don't want it to be exclusive, make sure the other one understands that.
Personally, I think your biggest mistake was having sex outside of marriage with anyone. I don't believe sex should ever be 'casual' or 'just friendly'.

I prefer calling it a meeting rather than a date, but I prefer not dabbling with semantics even more but just meeting the girl and talking to her. Long getting-to-know-ish one-on-one conversations, especially at evening hours or in somewhat romantic sceneries may also be suggestive, even if nothing physical happens. An example would be going to cinemas and parks and being cute and sparkly, obviously trying to make an impression etc. ;)

Not surprisingly, I agree with Chev. Non-exclusive dating makes me uncomfortable.

interest or even just a little fun without obligations Why does that remind me of someone "extremely bright"? :rolleyes:

I think your biggest mistake was having sex outside of marriage with anyone. I don't believe sex should ever be 'casual' or 'just friendly'. This one is bittersweet to me. I disagree with the "no-sex-before-marriage" part, but I agree that sex shouldn't be 'casual' and 'just friendly'. I DID had sex with my ex, she wasn't my wife (hopefully), but she was my lover nontheless.

I admit to haveing a few one night stands, and other short relationships based soley on sex. But exclusive dateing isn't my thing.

I guess this will be a once-off thing for me. I don't think I want to date multiple girls at the same time, it was actually very very difficult. My girlfriend knew I was dating other girls when I saw her for the second time and she understood because I was looking for somebody I plan on having a long term relationship with.

She feels very happy about it actually, sort of proud that I picked her over girls... somehow I think I'm also a prize worth having since she was fine with me dating others at the time. Now though she'd have my guts for garters if I dared see somebody else but that's obviously not going to happen.

I admit what I did isn't exaclty the most noble thing to do but it doesn't make me a bad person, does it?

Not to blur the difference between good and bad things but there's nothing bad enough to make you a bad person if you don't want to be one. Oh dear, I sound like a priest or grannie now. ;)

Well I'd rather be the one letting girls down than be the one being let down by girls. Let's just say it's the product of history as a female emotional plaything.

I'd still like to hear what girls think of my actions.

DotW:
Wow, I feel a little confused now. She was your ex, but not your wife hopefully? Well was she or wasn't she? There's not much confusion there. And the whole 'lovers but divorced' thing really threw me for a loop. You can't stand to live with each other, but you can still have sex? Or did I totally screw that up?
Ab (I like that short name, I think I'll keep it :p ):
I'd really side with Chev. I understand the 'dating around' idea, but I'd rather get to know the girl ahead of time and not even worry about getting dumped.

DoTW: Aw man...I was in a hurry the last time I was in here...sorry I didn't notice then about that car accident.

So here's me, toasting to the memory of long lost loved ones. Cheers.

I'd still like to hear what girls think of my actions.
Well, I think the actions an sich are quite problematic, but it doesn't make you a bad person, as chev said. To a girl, sex is an indication of exclusiveness and a serious relationship. The intensity of this idea varies from culture to culture, but it is always there in one or other form, I think. Especially if you don't make it absolutely clear you can't/won't guarantee anything. So I understand their reactions.

Well, everyone makes mistakes, the bad part comes when you don't learn from them. :)

Wow, I feel a little confused now. She was your ex, but not your wife hopefully? Well was she or wasn't she? No, she wasn't my wife. Hell, I am 22, I am barely starting out in life, it's far too early to think about settling down.

After what happened with my ex, I am glad we didn't became engaged. I will speak no more of this, it still pisses me off when I think about it.

So where did the 'hopefully' come in? Or did you mean thankfully? That would make a lot more sense.
Anyway.
Hey, how about Valentine's day (and birtday's, actually, since mine is the day after). My gf wanted me to tell her exactly what gifts I wanted from her for the combined celebration. Is it just me or does that take all the fun out of it. Ok, I'll list five or six things that everyone can think about and who gets me what and what else I get can be a surprise, but she wanted me to specifically show her (we were at the mall at the time) what gifts I wanted her to get me. Is this a girl thing? Is this a 'some people' thing? Is this just her? A woman's perspective would be helpful.

Err, yeah, thankfully would be the word. I sometimes get those two mixed up. Keep in mind that being french-canadian, english is not my native language, so I sometimes mix up words.

At any rate, Valentine's day will be quite quiet for me this year. I even had a present bought for my ex, but seems I'll keep it and stash it to give to another woman.

@NOG: Women divide into two subspecies: those who love everything planned and can't bear any deviation from plans, and those who hate [Edit: It's hate, not have. Thanks, Uytuun. :p ] routine and anything which resembles a developing habit.

That, and perhaps that's how Christmas and/or birthday gifts were done in her family. ;)

[ February 10, 2006, 13:23: Message edited by: chevalier ]

Tell her you want one of several things, at least that way you can be surprised.

Her family doesn't do it that way, and she seems to randomly mutate from one to the other, but always in the extreme. She hates middle ground. She can't even understand the concept of "I don't have any feelings either way". For her it's either hate or love, binary mode, no spectrum. Weird.

A b

Well if you're after a long term relationship, NOG you need to establish your feelings on the matter. Sit her down and get her to listen to you, a relationship isn't fun if you are always having to play by the other person's rules.

Ditto. And the more irrational the rules are, the bigger your problem. But maybe you could melt her a bit and tell her to surprise you? ;)

Talk to her. She can't change it if she doesn't know you have a problem with it. :)

Well, it isn't so much a problem as it is a confusion at this point, and it only really started recently. She had no trouble at Christmas and I didn't even know what I wanted. I asked her about it and she just said she wanted guidelines, but that wasn't what she was asking for at the time.

Well, it's been a while no? Valentines Day has come and gone, we've all got a little older, a little wiser, and in my case, a little more angry.

It is official, there is no point to any of this rubbish. You try so hard (and get so far, but in the end it doesn't really matter etc.) but there is always someone else, isn't there? Someone a bit cooler, a bit more talented, funny, perfect. That person who just shines a little brighter than you, the guy who leaves his girlfriend to go out with the person you like best. I'm sure you've all had this experiance, well, this is my first, and I'm quite justifiably angry. I saw it coming, and like the irresistible coming of the first day of school, it arrives, and you hate it.

Funny how I manage to wax lyrical when I'm angry, but can't even get a love scene down on paper properly. I'm doing pretty well, I haven't sworn yet.

So, to bring the Relationship (rant) thread back to the public eye, here is my own particular rant, to the guy who is just a bit more popular. You weren't there when she cried, you weren't there when she was rejected, and if you do any of these things, you will be in a world of hurt.

As for me, I've got more important things to do. I've wasted too much time on this courting ****. From now on, I come first, my needs, my work, not trying to get with some person I'm never going to see again in four months.

Okay, rant over. Daie out. ;)

Two weeks since the last relationship rant before Daie got his gripe off his chest. Sounds like Daie's life just got a little bit less complicated. That's one way of looking at it.

Well, this link has been posted before, but its in the old thread, so i think it needs another mention to help everyone feel a little bit better about themselves.

http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~jenf/writing/rant04.html

Awww bad for you Daie :( ...

Anyway I hope tomorow's rendez-vous with this girl go smoothely. I'll keep you informed!

Look at it this way, Daie: She wasn't really so great as you had thought. It's unlikely that a single opportunity might have corrupted her. The sooner you get to know she's not quite stable, the better for you. Better to be dumped after a while of dating than after several months of a relationship.

And it looks like that girl didn't really need a guy per se but was submitting to peer pressure and trying to get a good catch so her own rating as a girl could go higher. She needs to grow up a bit before anything serious.

Hehe, good look, Ofelix. Don't let her push you around. :evil:

or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Hehe, not funny. I heard this one last year. That one screws you up. Good luck Ofelix, hope you get the luck I seem to be missing.

Ah well, life sucks, nothing new there.

Anyway, thanks for that link, it made me feel better. Just to improve my mood though, I managed to break the keypad of my phone too.

I just spent half an hour chatting to one of my best mates, and feel better. Still angry as hell, and willing to break things, but now I'll punch a wall rather than a new boyfriend.

I'm going to listen to Linkin Park. The lyrics seem to make sense today, for some reason.


EDIT: To Chev, who understands Polish girls better than me, it seems.

The thing I don't understand is the nicer, hotter, even beautiful girls who are single around here, while this girl is hunted, and I used the verb intentionally, when she is fun, certainly, and cute, but nothing to write home about, if I am brutally honest.

Meh, have anotehr link while we're on the subject of nice guys: http://www.outpostnine.com/editorials/niceguy.html

Good ol'Az always makes me feel better. Wait, did I say better or bitter?

There is actually some sense in it. People usually start looking for serious friendships before they are ready for serious relationships. So if a girl has a stable base of male friends but her boyfriends tend to last a month or free on average, then it's reasonable. from a certain perspective, for her to be unwilling to take the risk. Especially if she's actually looking for short-term relationships which some girls are.

Note that some friendships are really precious and they do work and matter a lot in your life while you can't be sure if the relationship will work. But if you've gone so far as to consider a relationship, it's most likely too late anyway, and there will most likely always be some kind of strange spark.

Don't ever punch new boyfriends. In retrospect, you actually owe them a favour for freeing you from bad relationships. ;)

Especially if she's actually looking for short-term relationships which some girls are.
Call me old fashioned, but I don't like realtionships to shifft so fast. I mean, this new boyfriend switched relationships in less than a week. That disgusts me.

And Chev, I won't punch him cos he's a full foot taller than me, which makes him 14 inches taller than her.

sometimes you've got to just sit back and let them come to you. When I was younger I was constantly chasing girls, going trading my broken heart for the next broken heart. As I've "aged" I've come to just sit back and let them come to me, makes it alot harder to get your heart broken (broken a few hearts this way myself, but that stems more from my inability to control my emotional vampirism). There's really something quite "statisfying" with having girl/woman do all the work to get things going, tends to make her less willing to quit the relationship as well (it's NOT healthy though).

Yes, Daie, I believe short term relationships are immoral as is any relationship intended from the beginning to end at some point. Looks like that guy was into the whole model upgrading, I guess.

@ Daie or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.”

Hehe, not funny. I heard this one last year. That one screws you up. Good luck Ofelix, hope you get the luck I seem to be missing.
I know something even worse, its when you get to close to a girl and she says "i think of you as an older brother i never had." that REALLY F*CKS YOU UP!!!

Yeah. Especially because it would be a great thing to hear in normal circumstances. Or rather if it were true. But it isn't true in most cases, even if sometimes it may.

Bahhrg The rendez-vous didn't happened, she said she was too tired to ill to go :( Frankly she looked like she could barely stand in her feet. Now I've a mix of disapointment and concern. Also I talked to her today and seriously she's doing too much. Not only she barely has any time left for her she declared she must remain active at all time if not, she'll do another depression, she also said it was better to go crazy with her crazy schedule rather than having a depression. Now I'm doubely concerned and I don't know it just gave me a shock to hear that.

Caveat emptor. Cave, Ofelix, cave! :p

1. A cramped schedule means little time for you. Parties, dinners, cinema, pizzeria trips... all those can be moved. But extracurricular activities can't.

2. A person with a hectic style is most likely hectic all the time, meaning she's likely going to be rushed when she's with you, too.

3. Work overload is good for downs and lows but mostly of the romantic kind. Generally, losing someone, in one sense or another. But not genuine depression. Biting more than you can chew will never get you rid of depression. She's only going to get herself into a bigger one.

4. People who can't handle themselves can't handle a relationship. No chance or next to none.

5. Depression and problems with self change people. She may be a different person when it's over. She may also like a different type of guy in the end.

6. Pacta sunt servanda. Okay, let us not talk like lawyers. But arrangements are meant to be kept. Okay, no one wants her to exhaust herself further or roam the romantic alley when she's ill. But arrangement is still arrangement and she knew she had the meeting with you later today.

Let's just not exaggerate the incident and perhaps she needs a strong male arm in her life. :p Try to be protective and caring instead of grumpy and care for her as a friend. Don't promise yourself too much relationship-wise because she's not quite ready for it and, as I said, there's the risk that she might change as a person or that she might change her taste in guys when it's over.

perhaps she needs a strong male arm in her life Yes, that must be it.

Chev, Chev... you know I don't speak Latin ;)

I guess you're right anyway we'll see what happens next now won't we? Ahem Contraria contrariis curantur

[ March 01, 2006, 03:35: Message edited by: Ofelix ]

OKay, Daie update. I spent about two hours today talking to this girl, and sorted everything out. Mostly. Turns out, she didn't know that I still liked her, and was quite shocked to find out. Anyway, she got really upset about doing this to me, but it was alright, we talked, we hugged, I told her stupid jokes, we laughed etc.

Now I'm just worried about the guy's ex girlfriend, another friend of mine. I'm gonna have to speak to her tomorrow, and she how she is holding up.

I was recently beginning to believe that I'd missed out on something important by never having been in, or made any effort to look for a relationship, but I think stumbling upon this thread has cured me. How anything could be worth so much drama is beyond my feeble comprehension. Thanks, thread!

@Prine

The drama depends on a) yourself, b)the object of your affection and c)the circumstances you find youself in. It's not always this complicated. That's why not all SPers post here. This is the thread for those that have complications.

That said, I'm a believer in the "better to have loved and lost then never to have loved at all" shtick. It's something you've got to do for yourself.

I'm still as Robert Plant puts it, "Trying to find a woman who's never, never, never been born". What I'd do just be able to feel for someone. I'm just dying for an overwhelming emotion, but those few highly disfunctional relationships I've been in (and sadly they make up a good deal of my experience in relationships), I can't seem to care about the girl even as tries to hurt me while she pulls out of the relationship (the whole revenge phenomena). I've even actively tried seeking out relationships over the course of the last half year or so, but it always ends up seeming when I think I find someone I care about, nope, I really don't care about them and I simply shut down the relationship.

God, why can't finding a girl who makes me like my heart isn't made of ice so impossible to find? Even when I see my friends in dysfunction relationships I find myself asking why can't that me? I just want that emotion, someone even just fight with, to know that we both actually care.

Things where so much easier, even just a year ago, life's suprizingly easy when your heart is no warmer then ice. Maybe karma for a couple of girls I was as warm to as an ice age.

Still waiting for "my" woman who's never lived and never will, save as a character in stories I've written.

... and then sadly, I won't care about relationships in a few days from now... then I will again and have to start from scratch, never being able to make progress...

Hmm, so I'm going to the city with 'the girl' tomorrow. SHould be suitably weird, espcially as she's meeting her boyfriend while we're out. That'll be my cue to be offski, I think.

That said, I'm a believer in the "better to have loved and lost then never to have loved at all" shtick.Psh, I've never bought in to that. It only makes sense from the third person. If you don't know what you're missing then there's nothing to miss.

Yeah, but with movies, and magazines, and media, you can tell what you are missing...


Experience isn't the only way to learn, you know.

Yeah, but with movies, and magazines, and media, you can tell what you are missing...


Experience isn't the only way to learn, you know. What? It's far better to experiance the emotions yourself, rather than just watch it happen to other people.

Which is better, hear music, or read a review?

Well, if you read an adventure book, I think you're closer to adventure than you are to music when reading a review... But it's not like it isn't experience, either. Experience includes what happens around you to people you know. It's somewhat similar with books if they are written well.

I never said that it was better to learn through seeing/hearing things, I said that experience isn't the only way to learn. In our society, we see so much 'love' around us that we get a sense of what it is, and if we haven't had it, we desire it, and then get sad when we don't have it.

Personally, I think experience is better in love, I was just telling you that it isn't the only way that people can see what love is.

My apologies, I misunderstood you.

Remember I told you all I was going to the city with 'the girl'?

She went to a friend's house last night, and didn;t tell me. I got stood up.

The english language doesn;t have the cuss words I needed this morning, so I used german and french instead. Chev should teach me some Polish ones to use on her.

Check your mobile phone again. Voice-mail etc. But if she stood you up, it's a party reason. :p Really, you're much better off without her. And don't waste your breath swearing.

No SMS, no voicemail. She saw me last night before she went, and had ample oppurtunity to pass on messages etc.

I will not waste breath, Chev. I met some buddies in the city, and spent over £100 (although most of that was a train ticket to Wales). I'm fine, just can't believe she would do that. Never mind the relationship thing, we're supposed to be buddies.

Yeah, a friend doesn't do that. All those just-met dates, yeah, but not friends. It looks like she chose not to tell you, which means she values your time very little.

EDIT: Daie, don't be pathetic.

[ March 05, 2006, 13:55: Message edited by: Daie d'Malkin ]

Yeah, but with movies, and magazines, and media, you can tell what you are missing...Maybe my heart got replaced with a daub of stone at some point, but I don't ever remember being the slightest bit moved by romance in media. Never seen a movie or read a novel that made me want to go out and find my soulmate. I get that that's what I'm supposed to want to do, but my brain is protected by a thick membrane of cynicism that most stuff just doesn't penetrate.

Perhaps I should go looking for the Wizard of Oz!

I'm fine, just can't believe she would do that. Never mind the relationship thing, we're supposed to be buddies. No. You are not supposed to be buddies.

A buddy is someone you choose because he's trustworthy, fun, shares interests and likes you as buddy too.

Did you choose that girl like you would have chosen a buddy or did you choose because of her looks, smell and your chemical attraction to it? I bet it was the later and your body chemistry tells you all about having a crush and nothing about the girl's character.

To your body, character doesn't matter. That's your brain that can evaluate character. In general, I think a crush blurrs the normal functioning of the brain. Buddies ? It's no fair buddy relationship if one "buddy" cares a lot more for the other than the other "buddy" does. Would you really want to spend time with her if she had all buddy-qualities but wouldn't look that good to you?

If you got a crush on someone, that person gets a halo around her and looks a lot better to your love-blurred eyes than in reality. More witty, intelligent, good-hearted. More like someone you'd make your buddy. But maybe you are deceiving yourself. Or better said, your desire is deceiving you.

And funnily, this halo effect is greatly diminished by actually have a love affair with that said person. A week of good kissing makes the brain clearer. If you get no kissing (or more), the brain stays in blurry-mode and you can't evaluate reality like you should (and accordingly keep you protected from unnecessary hurt).

It would be more honest to go separate ways if there are no mutually shared feelings. Everything else is feeding an illusion. And desillusion is a painful process.

And if she would actually had fallen for you, you probably realized that she is not the one you thought she in a less painful way.

Go and find a girl that likes you. Don't care too much about her looks. Look for a good character first.

Go and find a girl that likes you. Don't care too much about her looks. Look for a good character first. These are big words that tend to outopia.
Every woman ones seeks is at least beautifull for that guy. And as for the character, well i can really say that the only way to find out is to get involved.

Which means that if the character is not good, you will get hurt and really bad IMO.

From personal experience (well with greek women) i find it hard to believe that there is a decent percentage of women (that is 1%) in this world that will like a guy for what he is, and not what he poses to be or even worse what they dream he is.

Most women i have dated, had a relationship or just know, are so seduced by the guys that manage to hurt them in every opportuity given that really makes me feel like an a*****e for not being able to do that.

And furthermore i have been fed up with the classical runt for me "wow you are a very nice guy". Because the synonym for nice guy in their brains is a guy who is to easy to win and maintain without a big effort from their part. A guy who will do all their favours, won't understand that they are cheating on him with the looser who just owns a bike and an attitude, and so on.

Well i have never been in the being cheated side (i am usually, not to say continiusly, the third person in these affairs) but whenever i was there i always asked to clear the situation out by the woman. And all i got was a big reluctance, and at the end a break up (if one can say break up when there was not an official relationship) with me, in order to find a guy with less guilts and conscience in his character.

I have to say that i am tending to the point that at least here in Greece (and i think in many countries) women have just lost the control of their wheels. They are supposed to have a career, have a family (at least they are raised now with both these pursuits) and that stresses them. It is obvious to handle these two is hard and difficult. But there are ways and ways to react to such a challenge.

In Greece at least most young women now tend to act like men did 20 years ago, in their love lives.
They are always go for the easiest and less sentimental solution. They rarely invest on a relationship, because they simply find that too demanding.

Personal experience from last year ( i have not been involved with another woman since then, that last one really made me sick) follows:

I met this girl two years younger than me (28 she was then 29 now). Not the beautifull cover magazine person, but had this special something that made me jump through the ceiling. I gathered all my nerve and asked her out for a coffee. She said yes but after the holidays (it was New Years day 2005). I could not imagine why but i said why not.

We went out we had a fantastic time, and during the conversation i managed to get the words out of my mouth (very elegantly i must say, i was amazed with the extend of the effects she had on me). And she replied i like you too but i have already relationships. I said what did i heard a plural? she said a damn i should not have said that, etc. But the funny thing that at the end she did kissed me and did started to ask me out for coffees (she had/has a very heavy schedule with teachings and the research she is participating in plus PhD in progress), and things like that.

And of course me as a total nice guy (who was madly in love) never refused and always was content (allthough with a hurt feeling) when she was seeing the other guys. But i also learned the story.

That woman was having a relationship with a guy who is 20 years older than her. She claims to be the love of her life, but also the nemesis. He is a guy who is willingly not married yet, and has cheated on her, as she is too now. Furthermore (and that was the biggest blow) he left her pregnant and dissappeared when she told him. She was desperate, and at that time nice guy nr1 (i am nr2) gets in her life. He learns for her pregnacy and he doesn't mind. He tried to make her feel good and choose the doctor for the abortion. After all that she said she fell obliged to say yes when he asked to become his girfriend.

At the same time, and while she was claiming that she hated the older guy, he called her and as expected she just forgot her own words. The outcome was that now she had a guy who she could not resist anything, a guy she did not like at all (that nice guy nr1 was palying the official boyfriend role for a year without even a kiss or a gentle look) and chose to just torture him (most propably because he was paying the older guys dues). And then came me. That and my continuous pressure to clear things up, brought a confession from her about what has happened with the whole deal tears and the rest, and me trying to make her feel better and more courageous to take the right steps.

Anyway after that confession, another (the final) date for dinner (in which the a*hole called and she kept playing verbally with him in fornt of me), which ended with the phrase by her "i really like you so much, but i am not good for you".

Three days later and while i was trying to reach her by the phone, i got an e-mail which among other things stated that she would never dare to leave that guy, she already broke up with nice guy nr1 and she would like me to understand that we could never be a couple, but rather very good friends (since i have managed to open up for stuff she hasn't told anyone) or something more.

The last one made me realize the bitter truth i have stated above. And the fact that i have seen similar stories repeating over and over again, makes that realization more frightening.

Speaking of women who enjoy being mistreated, you're better off single than with a woman who likes that. And yeah, it must suck that women are like that where you live. But it doesn't suck that you don't have one.

As for the nice guy being the easy one to get and to keep, I guess we're still in the paradigm of the nice guy problem. Many women, especially young, don't realise that they have different standards for themselves and for their guys. I've heard from some who complain about men cheating on them, but when they cheat, it's the guy's fault for not meeting their needs. Alternatively, a guy is bad if he can't "accept it", i.e. the fact he has been cheated on. Guys being bigger and stronger and all, women do have to pay attention to how they are treated, as well as they need to make sure the guy will treat his future family right, which is normal, but the thing I'm talking about is obviously different. I think objectification happens both ways, it's not just some men seeing women as toys.

As for the multiple relationships, that's a sickening one. I refuse to abide any excuses from people who have more than one relationship at a time, no matter if it's "only kissing" or some such. Even religious people nowadays and even Catholics are going out of their way to interpret Christian morality in such a way as to accommodate polyamory. It sucks, it's wrong, it's emotional greed.

I remember a girl who most likely had several relationships in real life but also flirted with several other guys online, including cybersex or close, claiming it was just online i.e. not real, she was getting friends that way etc etc. Then there was that guy who had a fiancee he sometimes called wife and who felt wrong when being hit on by workmates in real life, but had no problem flirting with said girl, by which I don't just mean compliments. :rolleyes: At some point, his fiancee found out and he was angry at the unidentified person who told her, but saw nothing bad in his behaviour, still claiming it was just online and the fiancee wasn't in her right when suspecting and leaving him. Perhaps one full day passed before he was asking me about the girl (I had met her once in real life) and didn't see the world besides her. She was animalishly hot for him, as well, and asking me things all the time, but still tried teasing me as if to find out if she could get me. Blaaah. I left them to their fate and cared no more, while they turned hostile towards me in the meantime for whatever reason. In her case, perhaps for my not being curious if she was a good kisser or not or some such.

All in all, I'm inclined to conclude that in most cases people get what they deserve.

I am more concerned about the easy way out, people seem to adopt more and more in our days.
It is the easy way out to accuse the other one for your misfortune.

It's easier to just say she/he does not satisfy my needs so i have another relationship, instead of sitting down both and find out what the problem is.

In general that ease of use we have managed to embed in the everyday things we use, has started silently and subconsciously to dominate our sentimental world and life too.

Denial of responsibility. Nobody wants to grow up.

And yet everyone wants what a grown up can have.
That is not just denial of responsibility, it is more like reckless driving.
People want as much as they can get with less effort and cost as possible. While that may be a very good attitude in our everyday trades for physical objects, it is a very risky attitude when ones deals with feelings.
If both people are like this then noone gets hurt (and they never build a serious realtionship).
If one is like this, then the other get a very deep scar on his heart.
Trully a sad era for mankind if you ask me

Yeah, it is sad. I don't think about it much, but I often find it quite hard to deal with the way other people (and even myself) act in day-to-day life, which I suppose is why I visit places like this to get my social fix instead. :bad:

The best way to deal with the situation in my mind, although it often drains some of the 'romance' out of the relationship. Is to simply be blunt about your feelings and emotions.

Works a treat for me, and more often than not it sets the woman at ease knowing exactly where I'm coming from. Of course I could probably lie but with the things I say, why would I?

I've been heartbroken in the past, I didn't let it get me down, I just became thicker skinned.

@Mithrantir:

If both people are like this then noone gets hurt (and they never build a serious realtionship).You could say no injustice happens to anyone, but it's not like they both can't be hurting each other and much moret than they could realise. IMHO that's the case with most relationships between people. Don't you think? Especially among the younger generation.

Besides, people often agree to trial or open arrangements for fear of losing the person they love. That's not right and it's not right for people who are loved to demand such concessions.

@ Chev
you are absolutely right i should have said that.
It is true that noone can be completely insensitive or too thick skinned to avoid a scar on his/her heart at some point.

The bad thing is that what you are saying about the trial or open relationship agreements is becoming more and more popular.

But this is mainly because the fear of a crappy investment always exists in their minds. Mainly subconciously. The plethora of choices today, has spoiled the need for trying.

If you don't like that woman/guy you can always find the next one within minutes. So why start a full commitment realtionship when one can have sex and still looking for more sex (because sentiment is just not a fitting piece in the puzzle).

The joy of accomplishing something wonderfull is being lost in the easyness of finding mates. The easyness of getting some sex, wins over the hard process of finally making love with someone

Well! It's been a long time since my last rant here!

Time to fix that.

This time, my rant is about my uncanny knack at attracting woman engaged in serious relationships. I've got this girl in my class who has been with her bf (which happens to be my friend) for three years now, and guess what? Lately, she's been giving me subtle hints of her interest for me. I do return her feelings... but to steal a friend's gf? No way. If I ever am with her someday, it'll be on the condition that he gives his blessing.

Honestly, with a few exceptions, nearly every woman who gets a crush on me is engaged in a serious relationship. WTF? You'd be willing to throw away a serious, lasting relationship just to be with me? Honestly, I just don't get that concept.

Good you have that humility. Humility pays off. Waiting for his blessing would be a tad bit extreme but yeah, stealing a friend's girlfriend would be bad.

Okay, it may be possible to meet the love of one's life while being in a serious relationship, but if you see a pattern there, you'd better be careful. I wouldn't be trusting of women who fall in love like that, and especially if they hit on you, especially if there's no intention of breaking up with their current partners.

Perhaps you have something which attracts taken women? Maybe the kind of thing they lack in something that lasts? Don't know... kind of sense of humour, spontaneity and non-routine. That could be it.

Waiting for his blessing sounds extreme, Chev? Maybe it is. But one lesson I learned the hard way is to never place love before friends. So if he gives his blessing, I keep a friend and gain a lover, which is the best scenario. If not, then so be it, I won't make any moves on her. I don't think losing a friend for a woman is a good trade. And I know what I'm talking about. And she didn't made any hits, as you would say, just some subtle hints every now and then.

As for the repeating pattern, and from all the hard data I've collected on the field (that would be getting to know the said woman as friends), none of those were relationship jumpers. All of them had been in fairly long and stable relationships before. So that factor is out of consideration.

Sense of humour, spontaneity and non-routine would indeed sum me pretty well. Maybe that would be it. Now that I think of it, I remember one of those woman telling me that she liked my natural odor. Maybe there's the possibility of some biological factor...? :hmm:

Don't touch her. Friends will last you WAY longer than a highschool hookup (or hookER - take your pick).

I'd never want to be with a girl that would want to 'trade in and trade up' when it comes to a relationship. She values some warped sense of personal worth more than loyalty (My current boyfriend isn't good enough for me, but HE might be). She does it once, she'll do it again and you'll be on the end with all the heartache.

I have the exact opposite problem as you DotW: girls pine after me when I'M already in a relationship when before they showed no interest at all. It's a pity sometimes because I would have 'prefered' the girl with newly found feelings for me but that usually passes pretty quickly after I hit myself a few times and remind myself 'the grass is always, ALWAYS, greener on the other side'.

Friends will last you WAY longer than a highschool hookup My thoughts exactly.

But like I said, she's been with a small number of guys, and all of them were quite serious long-term affairs. Something about me drives her crazy, I guess. At any rate, I'll watch things unfold, and see what happens.

I have the exact opposite problem as you DotW: girls pine after me when I'M already in a relationship when before they showed no interest at all. Yeah, that happened to me a few times, too. I embarked on a relationship with a woman I wasn't madly in love (only moderatly) with because my "true love" (in that context, the one I really loved) seemed to have no interest for me whatsoever. After a few weeks (and a few beers) my "true love" and I were discussing, and the cat finally popped up out of the bag: she did indeed loved me. She was so secretive about it that I never knew. Had I knew... things might have been different, I will never know.

As for now... I'm enjoying some time alone. Considering the catastrophic outcome of my last relationship, I'm certainly not in a hurry to be in a relationship anytime soon.

the grass is always, ALWAYS, greener on the other side True, true. I guess we never fully appreciate what we have.

@DotW:

As for the repeating pattern, and from all the hard data I've collected on the field (that would be getting to know the said woman as friends), none of those were relationship jumpers. All of them had been in fairly long and stable relationships before. So that factor is out of consideration.You got me wrong or I wasn't clear... Relationship jumpers aren't maybe normal in the sense of what we would normal, but they operate on a more or less clear principle: they jump relationships. In your case, we are talking about women who have stable relationships but still choose to drop hints, see if a different guy from their partner is interested.

I'm not saying it's oh so horribly morally wrong. It may or may not be. Depends on their situation. But in all cases, it's alarming. Whatever has happened to the previous partner may happen to you.

Waiting for his blessing sounds extreme, Chev? Maybe it is. But one lesson I learned the hard way is to never place love before friends. So if he gives his blessing, I keep a friend and gain a lover, which is the best scenario. If not, then so be it, I won't make any moves on her. I don't think losing a friend for a woman is a good trade. And I know what I'm talking about. And she didn't made any hits, as you would say, just some subtle hints every now and then.Relationships with women or men who aren't as important as friends are good what for? What purpose do they serve? The kind of fuzzy feeling they provide or the sugar rush is something one can live without. Or get from watching a film. Whatever. I don't believe having a relationship with a person one barely knows is a good idea. Let alone if it's not a friend.

@Abomination:

I'd never want to be with a girl that would want to 'trade in and trade up' when it comes to a relationship. She values some warped sense of personal worth more than loyalty (My current boyfriend isn't good enough for me, but HE might be). She does it once, she'll do it again and you'll be on the end with all the heartache.I would necessarily put it in so hard words but yeah. I'm not really saying it's wrong because if the new guy is better for her, then all the better for her. Well, for her, not for other people. But she won't make a guy happy by being with him on a "best model I could find in the given time" basis, so hope she finds someone she sticks with. Better to change boyfriends early than to break a family and start a new one in her thirties.

I have the exact opposite problem as you DotW: girls pine after me when I'M already in a relationship when before they showed no interest at all. It's a pity sometimes because I would have 'prefered' the girl with newly found feelings for me but that usually passes pretty quickly after I hit myself a few times and remind myself 'the grass is always, ALWAYS, greener on the other side'.Hmm... I thought about that. Maybe it's the just grass is greener feeling and DotW is simply more sensitive than the average person and can spot such signs more easily? There's nothing wrong per se with taken women being attracted to him, but dropping signs of attraction is different from giving hints. Also, some people drop hints because they can't control it and some because they actually can. Meaning they know they can control it and they let it pass rather than suppress it and hoard inside.

@DotW again:

But like I said, she's been with a small number of guys, and all of them were quite serious long-term affairs. Something about me drives her crazy, I guess. At any rate, I'll watch things unfold, and see what happens.Serial monogamy? Have you perhaps considered the thought that maybe she's in a constant relationship but it's just the person of the boyfriend who changes?

Yeah, that happened to me a few times, too. I embarked on a relationship with a woman I wasn't madly in love (only moderatly) with because my "true love" (in that context, the one I really loved) seemed to have no interest for me whatsoever. After a few weeks (and a few beers) my "true love" and I were discussing, and the cat finally popped up out of the bag: she did indeed loved me. She was so secretive about it that I never knew. Had I knew... things might have been different, I will never know.Damn, that must suck. In retrospect, I think I've had to reevaluate a couple of my acquaintances and some situations from the past are clear when being reviewed in memory from the perspective of more experience. Fortunately, I'm over that and they're over that, as well.

As for now... I'm enjoying some time alone. Considering the catastrophic outcome of my last relationship, I'm certainly not in a hurry to be in a relationship anytime soon.Okay, it's not like I'm trying to preach and tell you what to do or whatever, but if you aren't ready for a relationship, please try not to jump into one and harm yourself as well as someone else... Sometimes people aren't ready for a relationship but still need a hug and some fuzzy feeling and someone else ends up hurt, which doesn't help the original hurt person's recovery.

True, true. I guess we never fully appreciate what we have.Yes, but the sense of loss isn't always your friend. I remember it driving me to get back into a relationship that wasn't a healthy one. Sort of Episode III lesson. You can try not to lose something, but you can't control everything.

You get me wrong I have an uncanny knack for that as well, it seems.

Okay, it's not like I'm trying to preach and tell you what to do or whatever, but if you aren't ready for a relationship, please try not to jump into one and harm yourself as well as someone else... Sometimes people aren't ready for a relationship but still need a hug and some fuzzy feeling and someone else ends up hurt, which doesn't help the original hurt person's recovery. I am fond of her, yes, but that doesen't mean I *HAVE* to be in a relationship. Nor do I have the intention to jump into another relationship, TBT. I just got out of a relationship that ended in a double-cross of trust (with the half-chinese one, that is), and I still am in the recovery period. What's more, I barely know that one. Besides, lowering my standards is not a way to honor the memory of my fiancee.

But she won't make a guy happy by being with him on a "best model I could find in the given time" basis, so hope she finds someone she sticks with. Better to change boyfriends early than to break a family and start a new one in her thirties. Nicely said, Chev. This reminds me of the "love fast-food" we discussed earlier in that thread.

Indeed. And my idea is that if people have to have it, let them better get it done and over with before they grow up and enter the world of packed sandwiches replacing hastily purchased burgers. :shake:

Those burgers aren't good for you in the long run but they taste sooooo good now. ;)

I love the metaphor.

I will have few days off so I can spend tons of time with my GF :D

What a coincidence! I head to work all week, all night. So I had no time at all to find my future GF.
:p

I have a friend who wishes that her husband would die suddenly and that would make life much better for her.

I really didn't indicate one way or the other how I feel about her husband to her.

Uh, wow. Can you elaborate? This sounds a mite spicy.

Uh, wow. Can you elaborate? This sounds a mite spicy. Agreed. *me slaps myself sharply behing the head*

Well, thankfully, the woman I mentioned in my last rant seems to have lost interest... or to have put her feelings for me on ice, hopefully, because I did the same. Both she and her bf (my friend) were obviously edgy today, exchanging insults and the like. I certainly hope I'm not the center of that turmoil... if I am, I will step down and take my distances, I have no wish to be a cause of conflict.

`--- what the hell are you supposed to do when someone you chatted somewhat and considered a friend of sorts when you were 16 suddenly shows up and starts proclaiming how much he likes you and being beyond flirty in the zomg-i-am-interested.in-you way, with lots and lots of refusing to accept the fact that you have grown up, and spouting platitudes about your kind heart and such?

:bang:

Well if he's not your type Ara, just try the truth. It will hurt him a lot less if you lay it strait from the start. If you don't tell him how you feel - or more likely how you don't feel, then he will just get more clingy with false hope.

If you have a hard time getting rid of him you might tell him about your plan to have a plethora of Araletts. If it doesn't scare him to death you might reconsider your opinion of the guy. :D

Not your type is a good option. He won't feel guilty or anything because that's not something that depends on him. It simply says you aren't interested and won't be, with no leading on.

"not your type" hits nearly as hard as "wasn't into you" but I agree that letting him know at thestart is the best course, bec at least then he and you don't feel too bad about it.

Hmm... I've been told that and it doesn't really feel that bad. After all, you can't have it with someone who is taken or related to you by blood or something. So things won't happen if you aren't the right type, either. But the "not into you", "no chemistry" and all such, that's still somewhat honest but much more painful. And I really don't like the "appreciate you as a friend" kind of talk, mostly because friendship is not a consolation prize and real friends are connected by something more than just a couple of dates, so it doesn't really sound proper.

Hmm... I think when it really sucks and hurts is when someone has been blatantly flirting with you and then says there's no chemistry or some such. Or when you're being given stories about difficult personal life or lack of time for social life and then see the same person with someone else. Basically, I think if there have been no romantic signs... and I don't mean slightly confusing things but some more real stuff, then a decent, grown guy should be able to deal with it.

I think if there have been no romantic signs... and I don't mean slightly confusing things but some more real stuff, then a decent, grown guy should be able to deal with it. You know, what you said seems logical enough but I've met a lot of guys who just don't take the hint. There may be no romantic signs whatsoever but often a heart-sick mind can see "signs" where there really are none. If a person is used to rejection then the act of someone being friendly to them might easily be misunderstood as romantic interest. There is a reason for the phrase - "Love is blind." I think most people can think of at least one person who was unable to see certain traits in a person they were newly infactuated with. For that reason it may not be that easy to understand there is no interest coming from another party.

There may be no romantic signs whatsoever but often a heart-sick mind can see "signs" where there really are none. very true. when i was a real dorko :geek: in 1st year high school (when talking to girls :/) i mistook kindness for affection :sosad:

I can recall some such occurences in my life, but I think it wasn't really flirt-free. I think there are problems when people cross the limits of form or when they start flirting for fun.

About hints... aren't they sometimes a bit too subtle to figure out? ;)

Yeah, hints are what their name implies - hints. If you want someone to get the idea clearly, tell them right out. Hints imply things, but then again, doesn't everything? Plus, with hints, you never know if the person understood, so you end up waiting, and it elongates the whole process. If you want something done, do it, don't imply that it should be done.

Dropping hints has a far lower success rate than just stating outright (at least in my experiences). Although I wouldn't be so bold as to be as blunt as "You pretty, me like you, let's make babies!" but I would bet your top dollar it would be more sucsessful than dropping hints.

Honesty is good... but remember that there is a thin line between honesty and bluntness.

No, you can be honest AND blunt at the same time. There is, however, a thin line between bluntness and insensitivity.

Bluntness is still more effective than dropping hints and often far less damaging if the answer is no. This applies to all aspects of a relationship from the inquiry to start relations, to refusal, acceptance and even dismissal.

Sure, if you want romance go for the subtle hints, the lone rose on her desk with note attached 'From your secret admirer' but you'll soon realise that those fun and games will often lead you on a merry little goose chase and somebody will make his intentions plain as day and she'll go with him, all this time you've been wasting money and time on roses.

Save your romance for someone you're in a relationship with.

The problem with hinted or implicit or otherwise alleviated refusals is that their politeness and kindness often relies on leaving at least some hope. I've even got a percentile number once. :shake: Seriously, though, bluntness is good because it leaves no false hopes and the process of coming to terms with rejection and getting over it can start faster, as I see it.

However, bluntness has to be real. You can be blunt without being honest. You can hint at romance all the time, flirt, exchange sparkles, whatever, and then say bluntly that nothing has ever been or will ever be. That's blunt but not so honest. However, it's probably a good cure for infatuation...

And blaah, secret admirers are no good. ;) They do good to someone's ego in most cases, but it's not like you can just say your name in the open finally and get all the credit back to you like that. :p Good hints that you want romance are such that can't be misinterpreted but the recipient doesn't have to reply immediately. And doesn't have to go through the dumping routine if not interested, but can just hint he or she is not. If it's a girl, she can get the hint and drop you a counterhint by starting to tell you how she loves her boyfriend. Or that she likes someone else that way or a specific type (different from you), can't handle a relationship at the moment, and so on and so forth.

Or you can always tell her to stop pretending she isn't into you. It sometimes works. :shake:

Or you can always tell her to stop pretending she isn't into you. It sometimes works. If you're, say, George Clooney and it's a movie, sure :p

I always thought loving your wife meant you would want to spend time with her. I am so confused right now. As much as I consider my feelings, I can't see that I love her any less, but lately I can honestly say that if I only saw her 2 days a week, it wouldn't bother me at all. I just don't seem to enjoy spending time with her like I used to.

We will be married 12 years this June 18th, and I have never thought of leaving her once, not even now. I married her for life. But right now I am seriously considering to start travel nursing, so I can spend more time away from her. I don't have any romances or inappropriate relationships on the side, and I am not thinking of going away to find any, but we just aren't getting along right now.

I tried to talk to her about it the other night and her reply was "we don't have any problems". I tried to persist and say that at least "I" did have problems, but she said we didn't have anything to discuss right now. WTF, a woman who doesn't want to talk about problems. There is no chance that she has a side relationship, and her behavior really hasn't changed towards me at all. But still, something is wrong, and I don't know what it is.

This is more than just a rant, if there is anyone out there that has any advice, I would really appreciate it. I am on the verge of getting proffesional counciling, but there is no way she will even go if she doesn't want to talk to me. She is a very private person, and would never admit to a stranger that we are having problems.

I feel like a stranger in my own house, and I can't take much more of it.

It might just be a difficult time, or it might be sign of a storm brewing in the horizon. There's not much to do until you and her sort out whatever issues you currently have. Of course, having never been married, I'm not the ideal reference on the subject :bad: ... all I can do is send my best wishes that you two can work things out, for the better or for the worst. I cross my finger it will be for the better.

Alright, now it's my turn to rant. This time, it's not about me, but about a delicate situation with my brother. He has recently began dating a woman... everything is great so far. I've met her tonight, and that's where the problems begin. She definitively NOT my brother's type - she strikes me as a cold, selfish, heartless gal. My instinct tells me this relationship will turn out badly. I have thought of telling him about that - but this situation is a basket of crabs - he's completly mesmerized by her, and probably wouldn't listen to my advice. *sigh*. Oh brother, I'd beat some sense into your head... but I guess you will have to see I am right the hard way.

Brallrock, sounds tough, because the usual advice of 'talk about it' isn't working. I suppose it depends on how long this has been going for. My meagre experience would be that sometimes people go through odd phases that they sometimes snap out of for no obvious reason. But I guess that's pretty useless advice actually.

Perhaps you could find someone like a counsellor or psychologist and ask him or her what might be the cause of your wife's behaviour, Brallrock? They rarely want to talk without hearing from the other person, but you could ask them what causes such behaviour in general. Someone must finally have worked with a similar case or read about one. Then you would know how to approach your wife and make her come out of her shell.

I'm really not an icon of life experience because you've been married for what's half my whole life, but it doesn't look to me like something normal, routine and passing. A woman pretending that the problem doesn't exist so she wouldn't have to deal with it isn't so atypical. But when you say you want to talk and she says there's nothing to talk about, it's extreme. Besides, it's somewhat rude, and if you two love each other like you do, it must be something extreme, then. There is a chance that she's overblowing a relatively simple concern, but I think she has a serious problem and it would be good to look around for professional help. As I said, perhaps without her participation in the beginning, for the better.

Good luck dealing with it. ;)

@DotW: Cold, selfish and heartless women have a lot of binding power. It takes a while to snap out of their charm. Abusive types are difficult to part with because the bonds they create or reinforce are massive and tight. In my experience, cold hard logic is about the only way apart from simply seeing too much on one's own eyes. There's also a chance that the cold type is not so cold but in fact having a raging volcano of various diverse emotions bottled inside. And that would be issues. When it comes to relationships, the constructs that people with some kinds of issues build are very difficult do deal with or crawl out of.

But on the other hand, everyone has some kind of issues and it's situations what makes people act like that, so I think it's generally better to be understanding and genuinely kind unless it really gets out of hand.

@ Brallrock - What exactly do you mean when you say that you aren't getting along? Her behaviour with you may be a large indication of what the problem is but you might not be able to see it because you are too close.

The dynamics of marriage change after some time. After 7 years of marriage my husband and I definately don't get along if we spend too much time together. I would say it has a lot to do with the balance of power in our situation.

Every situation is different but I suspect that there is a deeper personal situation that is going on with your wife and since she is a private woman then she is internalizing her conflict. That isn't healthy but she may be unable to communicate her feelings to you.

Your solution of spending time away from each other may not help the situation either. Although time apart may seem like a good idea to keep the peace, your time apart may become a habit for both of you and the gap will widen. I would suggest being adament about talking to her about the problem whether she admits there is one. Even if she doesn't appear to listen or gets upset at your pushing the issue, she will think about what you have said.

@DotW: Cold, selfish and heartless women have a lot of binding power. It takes a while to snap out of their charm. Abusive types are difficult to part with because the bonds they create or reinforce are massive and tight. In my experience, cold hard logic is about the only way apart from simply seeing too much on one's own eyes. There's also a chance that the cold type is not so cold but in fact having a raging volcano of various diverse emotions bottled inside. And that would be issues. When it comes to relationships, the constructs that people with some kinds of issues build are very difficult do deal with or crawl out of.

But on the other hand, everyone has some kind of issues and it's situations what makes people act like that, so I think it's generally better to be understanding and genuinely kind unless it really gets out of hand. That makes a lot of sense, Chev. I have decided against telling my brother about my bad feeling and simply observe from my neutral grounds.

I've considered the possibility of issues through and through, and you know what, I realized I appear just the same - and I too have some raging emotions deep within, so I guess you might just be right.

Perhaps I've been hastily judging, perhaps my instinct is right, I don't know. I can but study, and learn. If things get out of hand, however, I WILL step in. I hope it won't come to this.

@DoTW - Exactly, stand back. Your brother wouldn't appreciate you getting involved even if you are completely dead on right about this woman. Hopefully the relationship fizzles fast.

Not getting along means we don't spend harmonious time together, we aren't doing things together so much as in the same room. Normally if we watch TV together we talk, and communicate, make comments about the show. Now she gives short comments if I say something, and doesn't bring anything up of her own. If something is on that she doesn't like, she goes into the computer room and does stuff there. We don't talk about sruff at the dinner table any more either. Its up to me and the kids to make conversation.

Another big thing was last wek on our trip she hardly talked at all, (on a 9 1/2 hour trip) when normally we would have talked almost the whole time. We aren't persay fighting, but we don't seem to aggree on things as much. I have analyzed my behavior as much as possible, and I don't see any changes in me. Its not just me, my 11 y/o came and asked me tonight if things were OK with me and mommy, so she sees it too.

Brall - if your 11 y/o sees it too, then something is obviously wrong. The wind of change is blowing, it would seem. Hope the change it brings is for the best.

As for my brother, standing on neutral grounds is difficult. It's not hard to imagine that I'm not exactly overjoyed to see my brother heading in what seems to be a self-destructive relationship. Still, if that's the only way for him to see I am right, then I will stand away and let him learn the hard way. He's asked me if I had plans for the weekend - for friday, more precisely. I asked why, and he said "Just curious". C'mon. I'm not dumb. He wants to have a nice candle-lit dinner, and then bone her - it's obvious. Fortunatly, one of my friends invited me over to spend a few days at her parent's country cottage - just me and her - and I've taken the invitation. It will certainly be refreshing to spend a few days with her, I haven't seen her for a pretty long time. Oh, and before any of you wonder - she's just a friend, nothing more. She's not my type. And besides, there is this one special little lady I have grown fond of. I'm not saying more than that.

If she's not a romantic kind of friend, then why do you even mention her and why do you go to such great lengths in justifying yourself, DotW, pray tell? :evil: :D

Righty, righty, your brother seems to have failed his will save. But he might still make it on reroll.

@Brallrock: What DotW says. If I were in your shoes, I would demand to talk and also find a psychologist or someone like that to talk to about it.

I decided to try the romantic route and got a dozen roses and an all purpose love/suck up/I know things are toough right now card, and will leave it where she will find it when she gets up. Maybe flowers will do what words can't.