What's the maximum damage anyone has done in backstabbing? I've heard that some guy (Tobbin, from another forum) managed to score 230++ when he backstabbed twice using a dual-classed thief/fighter. Theoretically, if your PC dual-wields, it should be possible, but so far, nobody has been able to confirm this.
One more thing, what wpn proficiency styles/types should you specialise in, and to what extent in order to max out the damage?

Well, I would have to see more 'details' for the 230pts myself. It could be possible, dunno. It would take a lot of factors, X4/X5 backstabbing, high Weapon Specialization, Percentile or enhanced strenth, Weapon used, Critical or normal hit, etc. Amongst a few other things.

I've dealt about 50-60pts once or twice in IWD but... my next time through BG2 I'm playing a Thief. I suppose I'll test a few things along the way to see how much of a 'potent/lethal' backstabb I can develop!

Also as far as weapons specialties? I know most don't work with Short Swords...

It's interesting however eveytime you beat a 'master' theif or assassin (BG1,BG2,IWD) they ALL have... yep, shortswords. I like the speed factor of them and thus far there are +3 & +4 shortswords found in BG2. That's what I'll specialize in when I play my Thief or Assassin.

[This message has been edited by Draco Vlasavius (edited October 29, 2000).]

There are several nice short swords. I've got one that is +2 with a 0 speed factor, and another that's +1 or +2 and gives free action while equipped. I've come across the short sword of backstabing which IIRC is +3, and a +1 short sword that provides mirror image once per day.

Blackthorne... 'right on the money'!!! I actually keep the same exact short swords you mentioned in my weapon slots (although a MONK, -actually when I played my fighter as well)! I use my *fists* as a MONK but the mirror image was a mega bonus for the important battles. I agree that there are some very helpful short swords (and daggers, like the +3 2d4 Throwing dagger of Fire w/SF of 1 -that appears to give a +1 attack...not mentioned in the description) in the game. I am looking forward to playing a Thief or Assassin with a focus on these items.

I still haven't decided if i'm going to dual or multi-class yet but I'll make that choice soon enough. Ahhh-hum, the Sorc's.net doesn't recommend shortswords and the like. But I'm... me... just as 'Minsc is Minsc is Minsc'.

Well put Draco... Advice, even from the great guys at sorc.net is not always best for everyone... Go with who you are! :)

Well, if you have the XP cap removed, be a Kensai then dual class to a thief. If you have a high enough level of kensai before dual classing, it's pretty awsome when you backstab for 5x damage and critical.

Well, I now believe that it could be possible for a 230+ damage blow from a backstabb. I just started my Thief (actually Fighter first then Dualed over to Thief -Human option) and he was able to deliver a 106pt backstabb off of a critical blow w/4X multiplier. Using one 'short sword'. Perhaps down the road my thief will dual wield and I'll see how that works. Once he gets up in levels and the 5X multiplier kick's in along with better weaponry I'll see just what my Thief can do!

yo Draco, i am currently going thru with a Fighter/Thief that i started as a fighter. took him up to level 8 and dualed to a thief. i spent 3 Prof. slots on long swords and 3 on Two Weapon Style. obviously i have him dual wielding long swords. pretty bad ass if i do say so myself. not sure if this is a bug, but when i leveled as a thief and recieved a Prof. point to spend, i was able to put it towards longswords. so know my F/T has 4 slots in Long Swords.

my backstabbing damage isn't as impressive, only 55, 56 with x4 modifier, but i am sure with a critical hit i could do much more.

obviously only the 1st attack counts as a backstab when dual-weilding, but its still sweet when a backstab doesn't kill a foe, your right there to dish out even more damage.

I understand (not from personal experience though, so "grain of salt") that with a dual wielding backstab, only the first weapon to hit gets the backstab multiplier.

Wingfoot, I noticed 'the thing' with the proficiency points. So (I know I'll get some flak for this) I spent 5pts in Short Swords. This gave me the extra +3 to hit and the extra +5 for damage, as well as the Speed Factor benefits (-3?) and the extra attacks (+2attks) that come with Grand Mastery (only for those that have used the BG2 Weapon Proficiency patch).

I actually only made my Thief a Fighter first to get a few more proficiency points and to get percentile strength. -It paid off, after numerous attempts I got an 18/99!
So with the Srength and the Grand Mastery he's getting numerous attacks that are accurate and damage dealing!

Now that I know a secondary weapon wont get the backstabb muliplier I'll only dual wield for the extra attack for a total of 4 attacks.

BTW, I'm investing a fair amount of points into Detect Illusion just to see how it handles Illusions, Mirror Images, Secret Doors (perhaps find door's no one else has?...) etc., and eventually -the Mislead spell. I'll post anything that turns up. Already it destroyed several of the illusions in the Circus Tent quest.

Nice - But as far as secret doors are concerned, a thief using find traps has 100% chance of finding a secret door...

So that "patch" :) gives you the best of both worlds? The BG1 extra attack, to hit and damage, and the BG2 Speed Factor upgrade?

draco: get detect illusions up to 70% or more and and your thief will be seeing through most mage spells, very useful later in the game when all mages use mislead, dim door, and mirror image.

p.s. if you get the guild post if you get any guild quests, i got 2 right away then nothing for the rest of the game.

I've been a fan of the Thieving class for a while and was aware of the ability to find secret doors 'when' (and only when) detecting for traps. But as is the case most only detect for traps while in dugeons. I hope to find more doors and passages just by 'walking' around doing 'business' as usual. -At least I hope to find somethings not uncovered as of yet. I'll post anything that comes up of course.

I dont know what made Interplay 'dream' up the Weapon Specialization that is offered in BG2. It's useless. It's not AD&D spec's (I found the spec details on another board). Those spec's are found in BG1/TOSC & IWD. Or perhaps they just 'overlooked' the error and it found it's way into the public release. Nevertheless the patch does correct this to the AD&D spec's.
Which are:

Pts./ +THAC0/ +Dam/ #ofAttks/rnd
1/ 0/ 0/ #1
2/ 1/ 2/ #3/2
3/ 3/ 3/ #3/2
4/ 3/ 4/ #3/2 (& -1 SF)
5/ 3/ 5/ #2 (& -3 SF)

Interesting, some opponents seem to have their weapons specialization coded correctly to whoop up on our parties!

I'll also post any addtional quests that I stumble into.

[This message has been edited by Draco Vlasavius (edited November 01, 2000).]

Fair enough... I always have my thief detecting traps if he's not doing anything else; why should he be lazy and just stand around when he can be doing something constructive! :) Which is why I ended up totally surprised by a lich hiding behind an innocuous secret door in an inn...

As for BG2 Weapon Specialization, the only reason I rib you about it is because I assume (perhaps wrongly :) ) the developers had a reason for changing them. My guess is to downplay Weapon Specialization for the benefits of the Weapon Style Proficiencies, but that's just pure speculation. I don't believe it was unintentional, because it's documented in the manual, but once again what do I know? I just like to rib you about it! :)

[This message has been edited by Blackthorne TA (edited November 01, 2000).]

Well upon closer examination, I see the AI script that allows thieves to always be 'detecting for traps'. But I can't... I have my AI script for 'jumpin outta shadows and backstabbing some hapless creature' -and I'm starting to enjoy it! Good thing I made my Thief Lawful Evil. Being Lawful Evil also allows my Thief to don that wonderous 'Human Flesh' armor -eewwww, sick! eewwww. That whole quest is definitely the darkest one in the game, but they made that armor so 'awesome' my Thief has gotta have it.

As mentioned in my last post, I don't know what the game developers were thinking with Specializations. Actually BG2 is hybrid AD&D edition 1, some of 2, some of 3 and 'side effects from whatever drug of the day they were using'. Yes I can tell you like ribbin me about it but Weap Spec is a fundamental AD&D LAW. (well to me it is) It's like "Dont touch it!! Stop touching it!! What are you doing? Leave it alone!! "

But, I post all kinds of things that folks can 'target' me on! Keeps me on my toes. And yes I recall that post of "some crazy lich suddenly attacking you"... hunched down, wagging his head and dancing his 'dance of death'. Do the "LICH".

Heh, I hear ya Draco... And to be honest, when I saw the new table in the manual, I thought "What the hell is THIS? A speed factor upgrade only going from 3 to 4 proficiencies? Who do they think they're kiddin'?" But then I just shrugged my shoulders and started a fantastic new game :)

When I caught wind of the available patch (before you posted about it), I just chuckled to myself and thought "Some people REALLY don't like you messin' with their rules!" And then there you were... I just couldn't resist :) I'm glad you aren't easily offended...

patch?

Yeah, there's a "patch" that "fixes" the Weapon Specialization rules in BG2 to be like the ones in BG1 and IWD. I've seen it on the TeamBG website... I don't believe I've seen it here anywhere, but I haven't really been looking either...

oh yeah, i saw that. thanks.

finally, i landed a good backstab that i can post about. 114 damage on a critical hit with a modifier of x5. my dualed F/T was wielding a long sword +2, cant remember which sword off hand. the ***** of it is the fact that i landed this devistating backstab on a kobold in the sewers. what a waste of a good backstab.

Well, i had to start over again. I had 'wasted' too many Thieving points in areas that would not help me until later in the game. So I started a new Fighter/Thief and 'lucked out' on the STR (18/96), poured pts into Hide in Shadows & Move Silently, and now he's DEADLY. He pretty much cleaned up Nalia's Keep single handedly via the 'backstabb the Troll' game. I already see a definite improvement in this new Thief/Fighter and I'm more familiar with how to 'play' him correctly.

BTW, backstabb's do not work on Golems... anything else you find that a backstabb won't work on please 'do tell'.

i didn't know that about golems, good to know. yeah any type of jellies. you get that message "your backstab did not seem to work" or something like that. those are the only foes i have come across in BG2 that can't be backstabed so faR. i also remember trying to backstab an Ankeg in BG1, but to no avail. i got a simmilar message when i tried.

cant remember what i rolled for my F/T's Strength originaly, but at this time its 19. i bought a girdle in the AdventureR's Mart for a pretty penny because my Rep. is 9, but it was certainly worth it.

I recently received confirmation that damage in excess of 200 IS possible; I'll have to experiment to see for myself...

One thing I do know is that in BG2, strength damage modifiers will only be taken into account AFTER the backstab multiplier. So I guess the main benefit of having a high Strength is for the increased THAC0.

In BG1, I found that you can only backstab with wpns usable by the thief class, ie. you can't backstab with that 2-handed sword you're lugging around (ditto for my Spider's Bane :( ).

Certain monsters can't be backstabbed, at least in 3rd Ed D&D - slimes, undead, golems, and anything which doesn't possess vital parts. Wingfoot: I DO remember backstabbing an ankheg though.

i am pretty sure i was unable to backstab an Ankheg, but i'll have to give it another go. really doesn't matter because i haven't come across any in BG2.

i did try to backstab a Beholder though, but no luck there, it didn't work. i didn't get a chance to try it on a Gauth, but i assume it wont be able to. i won't know for sure until i try though.

wingfoot: if you want to hunt ankhegs there are occasionally some in the windspear hills

There are some Ankhegs in one of the first two areas that are 'updated to your map' upon surfacing from the Underdark/getting the quest for the Lanthorn.

I also ran into some once while in Windspear hills as well. They are a MUCH easier opponent than when I had my 4th or 5th level character in the BG1 days!

Also I had to 'restart' my Fighter/Thief last week and just got the Guildhouse today. I recieved the first 'treacherous' quest and have dealt with it. Then I was informed of the 'Thieves stealing from Thieves' upon return that I had to deal with. I'll post anything else that pop's up as far as Guildhouse issues that I find.

[This message has been edited by Draco Vlasavius (edited November 06, 2000).]

ahhh yes, now i remember those Ankhegs in the Windspear Hills area. i haven't been over there in a while. thanks for the tips.

i have had the thieves guild for about 40 gaming days and only those 2 quests have come up. i still like the guild though, its in a great location. great place to stash treasure for a later use, plus you can sell anything right there in your guild. if anymore thievs guild quests come up i will certainly post them here as well.

had to bring this topic back up before it was lost in the abyss of topics in this forum which just exploded since the release of BG2.

anyway enough rambling. i scored a backstab of 144 on a critical hit wielding a long sword +2 with a x5 modifier. i am on a mission to land a massive backstab.

and shadow you are right about Ankhegs, i was able to take one down with a backstab in the Windspear Hills area. i could have sworn i was unable to do this in BG1. i have had the thieves guild for about 60 gaming days and still no more Guild quests to report.

Wingfoot: Told ya ;) - my past-time is backstabbing hapless creatures :).

Just a note: you can backstab with any weapon that a thief can use, and that includes clubs and quarterstaffs (... 'backclubs' Kobold for 120 points of damage).

Well my Thief/Fighter & company is still in the Underdark but should emerge soon. I was able to get 180pt backstab from a critical with a 5x multiplier just a short while ago.
I plan on 'cruising' a bit when I do surface and get back to Athkatla to see if I receive any other quests.

However I did have one of my Thieves arrested and imprisoned before I sailed out to Brynnlaw -which was a 'mini' quest I suppose. No big deal because my thieves were pulling in a little over 2000gp a week. I believe when I surface and 'change' their missions a bit more, perhaps some other quests will generate. But thus far the 2 quests and the 'bribe out of prison' situation.

Backstab with a club? With a Staff? Apparently its true... illogical but true in the BG2 game. -What exactly does 'Stabbing' imply?... I cannot conceive or envision stabbing with a Club or Staff but... oh well, to each his own.

Maybe you should call it a spine-crush or a back-of-head-smash with a club or staff ;)

backstabbing with a club, thats nuts man. that should not be possible. i tried to backstab with a mace and a bastard sword in BG1 but couldn't.

well i guess just having to send your thieves out on missions every 5 days is a "quest" in its self. Draco you have only been caught once huh? i have had to bail my thieves out 4 times so far, but its a small price to pay when they are brining in a good amount of gold.

180 damage, nice thats highest i have seen so far.