At this point, they probably already have a couple of such threads in BioWare boards, when they have an actual chance of having some effect on the devs, but hey, why shouldn't SP speculate a little bit? ;)

My primary concern is the effect of race, class, alignment stats etc on gameplay and storyline. The old trick is dialogue checks, and it really works. They could add some quests - they existed in BG2 and some were pretty good.

Nearly as important is interaction with the environment. By this I mean more interactivity, especially with the people. It's ridiculous when in BG2 you have heroic reputation of 20 only because that is the limit, you have some nearly godly level, you wear hundreds of thousands of XP worth in gear, and they talk to you like to a peasant. For good or for bad, they should recognise your status. One of my main problems with BG2 was that you were a god's son, a great wizard and harper's adoptive son, and a demigodly hero, and you still weren't able to get your warrior charname knighted while every other person in Athkatla was sir or lady :rolleyes: It was not realistic - in any kingdom such a warrior would already have got knighted, made the lord of some reasonable estate and so on. Half your party were aristocrats, not even petty nobles, and their status was also prod fodder, while even petty nobles without a name were treated almost like gods by the game :rolleyes:

Real consequences of your words and actions. Not just slight adjustments to your journal notes. A real difference depending on the choices you've made throughout the whole game. If they can't make it less linear, making it look less linear still helps a lot (like BG2).

Next, 3D is fun, but it wouldn't hurt to have all little icons cute as well (unlike IWD2 or ToEE).

Sounds. Music, lots of music. Ambient doesn't make it (see ToEE). BG2 ruled. IWD1 ruled.

Romances. Lots of them. Less obvious clues. Less obvious dialogue options. More check points. No glitches. When I say less obvious, I don't mean having to find the only one way to progress to the next stage - that would be unrealistic. For good or bad, it should take into account your overall standing with the character and answers that indicate your attitude, reveal your motives, talk volumes about your personality and so on. Not just one wondrous dialogue option that fills your bed with an elven priestess. I'm not criticising BG2 romances - they were something new, an experiment and one that worked. Some improvements could be made, though, and from what I've heard about NWN (I don't have it), NWN ones are a step back.

Romance isn't just a quest. It should last till the end with options to choose along all the way. KotOR Bastila romance was good in this regard and FWP Flirtpack mod was great as well.

Banters. Banters were great in BG2 and KotOR. Give more.

Give player-initiated banters. FWP's flirtpack mod was great.

If a new ruleset is designed specifically for DA, it would do no harm to left some of D&D's flaws behind. More customisation, less class rigidness. Better alignment concepts. Better reputation concepts. Various aspects of reputation, not only morals. There are many things you can be (in)famous for, and it differs among the parts of the game world. I mean, it should...

If we are at it, customisation in character creation can do wonders. Different height, weight, hair length, colour and style, different skin complexion, eye colour, musculature (your 8 STR 8 CON wizard doesn't really fill your barbarian's T-shirt), whatever. Just lots of it. It matters a lot especially to roleplayers. Stats don't say everything! And more portraits, please (hint: they could be rendered at the end of character creation using data input from the player) :p

Hideouts, strongholds etc. Nice if the campaign warrants it, superfluous if it doesn't. Here I agree with the devs.

The ability to have your stuff enchanted by a professional the way you do it with Craft feats.

Finding artifacts is fun, but what about being able to get your paladin go to the best blacksmith/armourer in the whole kingdom and place an order?

More talking? More Hacken Slash... er.. hack & slash? :p :D Yeah, more of both. Just let me choose.

If we're at talking, talking perks were great in Fallout 2. Good example to follow.

Arena. Give me a place where I can get money, get XP and hone my uber skills. Random quests (from simple bounty hunts to more complex tasks like winning some game championships in all cities (Might and Magic classic)) would be a bonus as well.

More business and business contracts. More trade. Advanced trade, custom options and the like. You know, Adventuring Capitalism :shake: Politics wouldn't hurt either. Don't forget about temples and their agenda. Perhaps a war or two and a taste of military life?

The ability to play after the end, and it making sense to do. What about tiny quest add-ons to give you something to do when you're done with your main quest? You could be the hero and saviour who has nothing much left to do but still has something from time to time.

Call me nerd, but I want learning. Teaching wouldn't hurt either.

Experiment: academy, university, college life? It did work in some past games...

Flight not just levitation, I mean it is called dragon age (hopefully) for a reason. I presume the game is fully 3d.

Depending on the amount of towns, Town portal.

Weapon discriptions, long epic weapon discriptions.

Balanced amount of weapons, have as many magical clubs as long swords. That way you can actually choose your weapon before hand without the fear of no good magical weapon in that class.

Components or reagents to cast arcane spells. Very few RPG I know of use this system but I think it is way better than memorizing and/or spellpoints.

Huge outside adventuring areas as seen in Baldur's gate I. Many of them, maybe even to much where you don't have to do them but if you do, it takes forever.

I may add some ideas later on.

Well, your post has made me think about holy swords for paladins. When they're ancient artifacts, it's understandable that they aren't being adjusted to the player's proficiency level or preference in sword type. However, sometimes such swords are commissioned with a specific paladin in mind. In such case, the player should be given choice, I think.

Anyway, it's not sure if DA will have paladins. And even more so if they will include holy swords or not, anyway.

If we're at talking, talking perks were great in Fallout 2. Good example to follow.
Only one thing to say about that....right on!

The ability to play after the end, and it making sense to do. What about tiny quest add-ons to give you something to do when you're done with your main quest? You could be the hero and saviour who has nothing much left to do but still has something from time to time.
Only one thing to say about that....word!

What about special moves, now nothing super karata ninja fighting special, but when I look at NWN the fighting was exactly the same the whole game. Sure thare is cleave and improved power attack, but KOTOR IMO had some cool moves. Of course those were force initiated but still. I want to see different parry moves like drizzt's double cut low.

Maybe that's to special but there should be some abilities to initiate different moves, perhaps even ones you invented and have you signature. Perhaps roundabout kicks for monks, elbow hits, eyepoking, feints for fighters, real looking backstabs from thiefs. Perhaps I'm over doing it now but some kind of special move would be really great. Just keep it clean and SUBTLE, no stupid moves like you seen on console games.

I'm thinking Secret of Mana here as a very very crude example.

Now the more I think about it, the more I want Reagent arcane spell casting. In my opinion it would add so much more depth into the spellcasting ability. NWN had many components and was on the right track but they hadn't anything to do with the actual casting of a spell. Of course only reagents to cast a spell is ridicoulos because any peasant would be wizard in no time.

To me it always has been a mystery were magic came from when casted. My mind has a problem that it just comes out of thin air when a certain line has been spoken. Why not combine a reagent and of course more reagents for the difficult spells. A combination of one or more reagents, a scroll with the desired arcane line to say and the ability to learn the spell after you've casted it an x number of times. Practice makes perfect is my motto on this.

More on this and more subjects later. I'm full of ideas ;)

I say hire good voice actors, and cut them loose. Bioware and Black Isle has hit nearly 100%, and Lucas Arts has hired some good ones. Just stuff them in a sound booth, wire them together, and tell them to "get froggy".

Literally. Tell them that. Get Froggy.

Seriously. When Bioware goes all out, and lets the developers put in all the personality of the voice actors, it really works. They program in the physical characteristics and inflections and accents, and it gives so much life to the game. That's what has made them so successful; that's what continues to make them successful.

Let the developers do their job. Let the voice actors do their job. Try to integrate the two, as best you can.

In short, do everything that George Lucas didn't do in Episode1/2.

Freedom to wander where ever you damn well please (within reason. Not walking through locked doors or anything...), preferably whenever you please. Story driven games are quite good, but I feel like something Fallouty (I'm playing it at the moment). Have a story, but have the story there in such a way that it can be ignored and you can still do things where ever you want.

Less pointless monsters. Lots of fighting isn't really necessary. And don't just have the monsters attack you for seemingly no reason at all.

Trading is an interesting idea. Could open some interesting things.

- In single-player, no canned pregenerated areas where every house inside looks the same, where every lab looks the same, where every dungeon looks the same, etc. Nothing kills the atmosphere for me faster than that.

- No extradimensional buildings, where the inside is 10x as big as the outside. The proportions should be 1:1, same as in real life. By the time DA is out, the appropriately larger areas this will create should not be a problem for most systems. And the larger areas will also mean many more possible encounters, which is an added bonus.

- Get a new artist to draw all the items that will be seen in the characters' inventory; the art for that in NWN was *really* bad. All the items looked way better in both Diablos, not to mention the other Infinity Engine games.

- When I wear a helmet, I want to see my character's face! Design the system so that not every bloody helmet turns my character into the Man with the Iron Mask.

These are just some of the most annoying things that bother me about NWN that I can think of the moment, I'll probably add more later.

You know, Tal, those first two things on your list are right next to impossible on a console. I agree with you, but if it's announced they're making the game for the console and the PC, those first two come at the expense of the graphics.

*sigh*

I know of some other games that have had that particular issue, as of late...

Thus far PC is the only platform they're mentioning developing it for. Basides, since it'll come with a toolset and GM client like NWN, it's not a very feasible title for consoles. Unless they change significantly what will ship to any of the consoles.

More:

No illegitimate characters, especially enemies. This doesn't mean everything should add up to pointbuy scheme, but some things are downright wrong, like special versions of spells for your enemies, the enemies "knowing" what protections you have on yourself etc. I'm not sure about the latter - it might have been accidents. Still, I insist that scripts are not the way and characters should be legitimate. Powerful, maybe. Special, granted. Not illegitimate, though. Kills the fun.

No encounters where the difficulty lies in finding the only one way that works. No cheese like the enemies being resistant to everything for the first couple of minutes of the battle.

No skills, spells or anything that are crucial for the finishing of the game. It's OK if a character can't make it because he's too weak. It isn't OK if a character can't finish the game because he doesn't have some skill - or means of getting around the skill requirement by having someone else do that or using a device. Here's the catch: players can't feel like their skill are being neglected because you can always hire someone or buy a device. It needs to be solved in some cunning fashion ;)

8 INT barbarian soloers aren't supposed to solve puzzles. It's completely unrealistic when they do.

Characters without skills like Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff, Sense Motive and similar are NOT supposed to be given the same benefits in dialogues that happen to be crucial for the storyline :rolleyes:

I want to see the effects of my maxed out Diplomacy and Sense Motive. And, yeah, my skyhigh willsaves as well. Raw charisma stat could make some difference as well. Look: my 16 INT 17 WIS 18 CHA paladin doesn't really use the same pick-up lines as some mentally handicapped barbarian whose closest thing to a talking skill is Intimidate (Str). Yeah, I know it won't be D&D, but they'll have to have some kind of stats and probably skills as well.

Next, if we are at romances, let the plot be convincing. Storyline-driven, or rather main-quest-storyline-driven romances are great if handled properly (give me Bastila romance IRL and I'm out of the pool :D ), but they need to be at least a bit less uniform and stress some of each Charname's undividual characteristics. Just to avoid the feeling that everyone could do that in the same shoes.

Side-quest-driven romances, or critter romances should be way more convincing than they are in games that have been made.

Well, and they really should be more discriminative, those romance NPCs. People have some turn-ons and turn-offs, you know... Give them some. Perhaps varying difficulty of the romance, and some romance plot adjustments depending on those?

Ah, and I liked those special reward titles and perks in Fallout. They could make some. For example: "Expert Saviour of Damsels in Distress", "Irredeemable Evil", "Lawhound", "Grammatical Moron of the Week" :D

Even if it may be a contradiction: "realistic magic".

If spell casting is memory-based, like in the Forgotten Realms, to have the ability to cast spells by reading them directly from your spelbook if the need arises, as seen in some Forgotten Realms books. After all, isn't your spellbook a big collection of magic scrolls? You should be able to use them if you wanted too, even if that meant the spell to be deleted from the book (scroll destroyed in the process). You could delete spells in Tob, why not giving them a use instead?

Alternatively, the ability to learn spells and witout having to rest a whole night to be able to use them. You could rest for 4 hours and learn half of your load of spells, for example, or re-learn spells while another party member is scouting ahead or something like that.

The ability to write scrolls of the spells that you know, please. What genius thought that it would be cool if THIEVES could write scrolls (even without knowing the spells) but MAGES, who are supposed to do this every time they copy a spell in their spellbooks, couldn't?

Well, there's no need for any connection of magic with sleeping. Except, perhaps, regenerating mana or some such. KotOR's Force system was great, btw. Maybe they could copy it for DA...

Kotor's force system is the very basic mana pool, it's even blue. Nothing special about that in my opinion. I prefer memorizing spells over that system any day.

Eh - mana sucks. Sleeping kinda sucks too. How about more of an exhaustion meter, and when your mental and physical stamina is running out due to casting, you can't cast any more spells and feel nagative physical effects, as well as changing dialouge options

Well, considering the name: Some Dragons? :p

To tell ye the truth, I think that to be realistic, there must be a fairly large party, not the two-man show as that in NWN but those that are in Dungeon Siege and BG2.
Think about it, when did it ever take a single man to bring down an entire cult of fanatical demon worshipers?

Next, I think the Elves (if there are any), should be at least as tall as a human right? I mean, when was there a time when Drow would have to look UP at a human? Or a Sun Elf looking UP to a Man?
Yeah yeah, it is against the D&D stuff, elves being short and stuff, whatever...

I want to see detailed armour, and weapons. I mean, there must be different makers of weapons out there right? And at least, make the combat nicer than the usual hero standing on the spot and dodging by siftig from right to left...yawn. Boring!
Want a good example of a fighting stance? Look at those of the Dark Elves in Lineage 2!!!
:D

In contrast - I say a small party, maybe with the ability to give limited orders to large numbers of people if the situation ever arrises. If it was true turn based combat I would say only control the PC - but with the tactical real-time, I imagine that style would be rather boring if combat was plentiful.

(edit: Hmm, I just read that your idea of large party is 6 ... I was thinking 15 - 20 ish being large)

Better enemy AI. For example, you blast a whole room clean with a fireball, then you hack the standing enemies to pieces in melee. But the enemies next door don't even notice the noise of the fight and will just wait for you to open the door. Or the cheesy "Open door - Cast Area Spell - Close Door - Wait for foes to die". How about giving the enemies the ability to call for reinforcements, or at least, to hear what happens in nearby rooms and to know how to open doors?

Bioware already mentioned they wanted a basic party of 5 or six for dragon age. Which in my opinion is great, but there must be unique NPC's (minsc and edwin).

Reagents is still my #1 choice for the magic system.

I like it when you "roll up 6 random yahoos". Baldur's Gate (with a protagonist) was fun, and even KotOR was fun. But I'm ready to role play a party, again. Pre-generated characters (known as NPC's) are fun, especially when there's party banter going on. But I'd like the option to play with a full party of my own choosing, and even "dropping" one of my people off in the pub while I carouse with some nasty little drow chick for a little while.

Aikanaro: You mean like the Fatigue system in Arcanum? I find that very annoing, because you cannot do a flying **** when you've spent all your fatigue, then you just drop to the floor and get whacked...

Only thing wrong with KOTORs force system, was that it regenerated too quickly... Once you ht lvl 10 jedi, you'd never be low on mana...

How about something to make magic something more then "Point finger at group of generic enemies, shoot fireball, enjoy the smell of napalm in the morning?" I'm thinking something along the lines of BG 2's Wild Surge system, only maybe not quite so frequent. Not so oftenm that it's irritating, but enough that it's always in the back of your mind. I'll tell you what, I never looked at a spell quite the same way after trying a Wild Mage in BG 2.

Really long range spellcasting. Does it really make sense that any mage with enough brains to outsmart a pet rock is going to be right behind the front lines, trying to cast while enemy archers try to plink him? No, I want to be the one standing on the battlement of a besieged castle, hurling blazing balls of eldritch death at my enemies a half-mile a way. Bwa ha ha ha!

Sorry. Okay, I'm calm now. But seriously, I want magic to EPIC. When I see an enemy mage (which I would want to be rarely), I should need to check my armor for acidents. In short, make magic users to really high end of the power scale in every non-physical way. An enemy mage should be enough to make you begin eying the Quickload button, and when you get a mage, it should make you start giggling fiendishly.

Pretty much everything else I'd like to see that I can think of has already been said. I like the resting to regain spells thing, but I want them to actually be memorized as I rest. If I'm interrupted two hours into my rest, I doggone well want to have two hours worth of spells re-memorized. It'd also be nice then, if I could decide what order I wanted my spells memorized. Do I want to start with my 200th level Flaming Ball o' Fiery Death, Doom, Destruction (TM)that takes five hours on its own? Or do I want to memorize a bunch of quickly learned low level spells first? Or do I want to compromise and take care of mid level spells first? I'd like that.

Well, paladins. I have some issues with how paladins have been implemented in D&D. Maybe they'll be better in DA.

- holy healing touch doesn't work on self, as a matter of basic decency

- it's not level and CHA mod that make a paladin; laying hands amount in form of CHA mod multiplied by level isn't right

- immunity to disease is not really well backed in the sources; Cure Disease should be tied to healing touch more closely

- auras aren't actually a bad idea

- Divine Grace save boost gives the right idea

Paladins don't have to be minor divine casters. They don't have to be casters at all. In CRPGs, they're given too much leeway in moral things. Hope it's going to be taken care of in DA.

If we are at divine magic, it should look more like praying for powers to be channelled. Still, some chosen saints can be given powers to reside with them. No memorising aforechosen spells, anyway. Also, the deity should be able to override any and all channelling of his power.

Rangers: something should be done to avoid the majority of rangers being doomed to short swords, daggers and the like, as in D&D 3-3.5E. Rangers don't have to be casters.

Bards: they should sing more than cast. Songs and lore, casting isn't a necessity. Might be refreshing to see non-caster bards.

I've never played as a mage in Arcanum (or even gotten very far in it as anything else, for that matter). However, to fix the problem of falling over and getting smashed, all you need to do is not cast
Maybe using magic could be a last resort thing, and using it would have some kind of consequence. Make magic very rare (though I'm sure this would annoy a good deal of people ... bah, see if I care)

You know what else I'd like to see? Quarterstaffs made into viable weapons. I have yet to see or play a game where a quarterstaff is a viable weapon choice for a warrior-type. In BG 2, in Morrowind, in every other RPG, the best you can hope for is a quarterstaff with a nice castable enchantment.

Indeed, staff is a great weapon.

Even if it may be a contradiction: "realistic magic".

If spell casting is memory-based, like in the Forgotten Realms, to have the ability to cast spells by reading them directly from your spelbook if the need arises, as seen in some Forgotten Realms books. After all, isn't your spellbook a big collection of magic scrolls? You should be able to use them if you wanted too, even if that meant the spell to be deleted from the book (scroll destroyed in the process). You could delete spells in Tob, why not giving them a use instead?

Alternatively, the ability to learn spells and witout having to rest a whole night to be able to use them. You could rest for 4 hours and learn half of your load of spells, for example, or re-learn spells while another party member is scouting ahead or something like that.

The ability to write scrolls of the spells that you know, please. What genius thought that it would be cool if THIEVES could write scrolls (even without knowing the spells) but MAGES, who are supposed to do this every time they copy a spell in their spellbooks, couldn't? *Laughs*

Actually, I remember a friend of mine who pulled a nasty trick on his DM in a 3.0 D&D game. He was outta spells, and he pulled out a spellbook that he had gotten off a dead wizard and ripped out the pages, using it as a scroll vending machine, sorta.

*Rip* Fireball! *Rip* Mirror image!

Hahaha..

On topic, how about the ability to go into random houses, like in BG1. What else... Uhh, that map marking thing, and possibly realistic weight for scrolls and arrows. I find it hard to believe that carrying a scroll case filled to the brim with scrolls is going to weigh nothing.

Containers are supposed to be extradimensional in those D&D games :D

The ability to go to every house on the map, or nearly every one, is strange. It's unrealistic. You should be able to knock and have them open for you or something. In Might and Magic, you pressed on the door and got dialogue options, without entering. It changed with MM9, however.

In Might and Magic, you pressed on the door and got dialogue options, without entering. It changed with MM9, however. Problem with that though is that thieves have nothing to do.

To the other extremety of course it morrowind in which you could actually do everything, but that's possible in complete 3d first person. Maybe something in the middle is needed for Dragon age.

I wonder what the roofs are made of in the world of Dragon Age, I mean it is the age of dragons, we can't be expecting thatched roofs can we?

Well, the best option would be to have people approach you immediately when you enter their houses uninvited. A couple of such unwanted entries should get you in trouble. They would think you're looking to steal something IRL, I think. Eh, knocking is the way ;)

Arcanum had a nice option for the sneaking thief to get in via the window.

A thief should be able to use it's sneaking skills to circumvent your knocking system or approaching when entering system.

As long as they dont get influenced by NWN to much this can only end well. KoTOR is a great game, and we all know that the BG series is the best RPG game ever made to a PC.

I read about this game yesterday for the first time and ran to my bro to tell the great news.

"This may the the spiritual continuation of Baldurs Gate" it said.
And well, GIVE ME THE GAME ALREADY! :D


What I hope to see.

Same spellsystem they used in BG.
(Componenet/Reagents or mana sucks)
Since they will create a new rule system I can´t say much about that. D&D rules is nice, so hopefully it´ll be pretty close to that. Atleast I hope it is something you will be able to calculate as easy.
A big, big, world. I wouldn´t mind if this game took 500 hours to complete. The more the marrier.
As for equipment I hope it´s like in BG, but with the differance that there will be more magical weapons in the categories where you didn´t have to many in BG. Clubs and such, so there will be a choice. Not just go with long swords cuz there are most of those. (I´ll probably go with long swords the first time anyway though, I always tend to when I play a game for the first time)
I hope they also take influences from Fallout. Perks, every now and then, and a trait or two at creation, (as mentioned), would be very cool.

Dont know if they have set a release date yet, the paper said they didn´t even had a publisher announced yet, but this is the game I have waited for since I completed BG2 for the first time.
Or atleast I hope it will be ;)

Alright. I've read almost all the posts here (took a while though) and now I just have to let it all out. I'd love to see more rogue quests, and I don't just mean walk to this house, turn on stealth and easily walk past all the guards and open a simple lock. I mean true thievery! That is examining the guards schedule's and timings, having to follow shadows in order to stay in shadows, as opposed to turning on a mode and walking where you want. Maybe being able to go on roofs. Some alleys, I have seen too few alleys in the games I've played, when in cities in those days, they had plenty!

Guilds and Orders and stuff are fun, when done right. BG2 was on the right track, lets see that but some more. And oh yes, being able to pay a smithy to get items.

How's about some realistic weapons. In ordinary NWN the only realistic weapons, are the first appearnce. All the other ones have all this crapy stuff and esigns added to it. CEP had the right idea by creating real useadle weapons. And what about fighting styles that suit your appearance and class? In NWN, you can have a fat half-orc barbarian doing a nice jump kick. WHAT?! Add some moves that suit the character.

And if they make dragons, make them right! Look at BG, BG2, IWD2, NWN and so on, the dragons suck. In IWD there is a dragon skeleton that is nice and big. And I hate how you can make a character that can single handedly slay a dragon, when that is reserved to the most powerful the Realms has to offer. Make dragons a ture obstical to overcome as they are for the most part, beyond the reach of almost all single adventurers. To some up for the dragons, bigger and more powerful.

And one last thing, customized characters. As previous stated, lots of variety in appearance, and how about skills? In NWN, to have a character with a who has custom feats, you need to become uber man! More feats that define a character in lower levels, please! And everything everyone else said. Great ideas everyone!

I`d like to see a different combat system, not click-n-fight. It should have the dice system, but you should have some direct control, like different slashes or kicks or even crushes. :p You could control attacks with ur keyboard like in POP 3D: A=up slash, S=Slash, D=Crush, Q=Hack, W=Stab, E=Finishing move (or something).

I ask that there is roleplaying in it. This may just be me, but in BGII, I enjoyed the blossoming of a romance with my forlorn winged elf, not reading about it then trying it for myself. There should be these extras, but while they should not come in the form of party members going up to you and saying "I love you", there should be a system there are similar dialogs for everyone, but taking one option opens the door to romance. There should be less of the "people waiting in pub for handy adventurers" ideas. The world needs to be as natural as possible. Also, while we're on game worlds, there were two diffences between Athkatla and Neverwinter; Athkatla was a city with you in it, and neverwinter was a city that you had to save. When you are in a city not to save it, but to complete a mission <i.e meet a contact, find a comrade etc>, then it really lets the world open up and breath more.I find it depressing when there are people fawning around me, thnaking me for my aid! Let the choices you take effect what how people react; take the stand-off with the villain, the big pit fight route, and people love you. Asasinate him in his home, and remain annonymous. Gossip would also be good <overhead dialogues of people in the street would be ideal for this>.

Like Rolsuk, I want dragons to be huuuge!! Like the skeleton I found in Durlags Tower, the dragons I saw in BG2 were not even half the size.

I want thieves to take less conventional routes, instead to be forced to walk on the street, they should climb on rooftops, and enter houses through chimneys or windows. Bards could earn money and fame by singing in taverns, or at duchal parties.
And maybe they could let my characters to ride horses and swim and whatnot.

It would be cool to see commoners going on in a day to day live, eating, sleeping, working.
If a alchemist noticed that he had no potions left, he would make them, out of ingredients?
He would buy them from a merchant or get them himself from the forest, or a field.

Icewind Dale and Arcanum had even bigger dragons, well skeletons but still, those sizes would me monstrous which they should be.

The ideas here are great. One thing I didn't see:
I don't like having to retrace my steps just to get XP for completing a quest. Sometimes necessary but often just a bore. :sleep:

Since I love thieves, more they can do. Won't repeat what's already been said.

I will like another activities like hunting and fishing and the possibility of feel hungry.
This will make the experience more realistic.
And the possibility of play with a lot of races, not the vanilla elf, dwarf, etc., like IWD2 drows and duergars. And strange races like panthermans.

I`d like a half-bear type race :p

Or a doggy/wolfy

Or a cat/tiger

Well, if you're going to still have "divine" magic of a sort, have that type of characters' skill in that magic based on actions and how they relate to their deity. For example, Paladin (for lack of a better term) must perform X good deeds for the day or make Z choices in the encounters presented for their deity to be pleased enough to answer their prayers or look on them with more favor. Complex, yes, highly rewarding for a roleplayer, yes.

Next, have monsters or adversaries placed logically. For example, Hero A needs to save the town of B from ogre's. Well, don't just have random encounters of ogre's in the streets or in the woods - instead put a camp of ogre's out in the woods somewhere, give 'em a picket line (depending on the size and nature of their force), but have the rest setting up a tent, or making weapons. This actually aides in having meaning - you're not just killin' to soak up the xp - you're becoming somebody in a logical manner. Example "Here's Hero A, savior of Town X for fighting off the goblin horde, cleansing the local church of goblin excrement, and booting out the town bully."

I like plenty of Mary Poppins - esque containers - (Bags of Holding). Either that or give us a domicile for storing stuff in. Just figure out cool ways to let us carry stuff.

Knock off the cheese. I don't want the enemies to know what kind of stuff I'm defending myself with or can throw at 'em. Let them figure things out the same way I have to.

Tolkein's elves were as tall as humans if not taller - go with it.

Have people learn certain skills by doing - if you use that dagger a lot your skill in its use should go up, while that bow and arrow you've been neglecting....

Give characters the option to either dress their part (look like a paladin) or dress down (look like a commoner because your chainmail is concealed underneath a cloak).

Bah, that's enough for now.

I really enjoyed the ability to join guilds or factions in games like Planescape, or Morrowind. Something like that would really make the game more worthwhile in my opinion.

I also liked the open ended plot of Morrowind. If they can implement this (with a good main plot in the mix that you don't want to abandon for too long as in Morrowind) it would be great. (this may have been mentioned already...)

I agree with makeing magical abilities and powers more epic in this game. Maybe a fireball could hurl a goblin across a room or something? Could be fun.

Very important...the arcane casting classes should not be so insanely overpowered at higher levels, as they are in Baldur's Gate.

NWN was nice in the way how it made arcane casters mortal. :D

Some of the stuff I've been reading here is a bit too much of wishful thinking...kinda like people want an MMORPG, FPS, Adventure AND RPG game all mixed up in one utopian offering, and unfortunately, that would'nt be very practical in the long run.

What I would personally like to see in Dragon Age, is realism...in the world, such that you are drawn into it. Immersion is the name of the game, I would say.

I noticed that lots of you are talking about Dragon Age like it's going to be in AD&D, and in the same world as BG and IWD. Well, it's not. :p Bioware's making it's own world and rule system, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, and IIRC, that has nothing to do with how the game is.

Ever play Fallout? :p

Just a little thingy that popped up in my mind when Faraaz mentionned Fallout. How about Fallout-style character sheets you can save to an intelligible file or print out whenever you wish?

Focusing on movement:
Terrain should have a big effect on how you move. If you're going uphill, you should be slower. If you're travelling over a scree slope, there should be the possibility of you slipping (almost like the lich cave in Amkethran with the ladders). Dark Alliance 2's plane of air was great, you get terrified the whole way that you're going to be blown off. If you're walking into the wind, you slow, if you're walking with it, you speed.
If you go through a swamp, expect your feet to stick occasionally. Footsteps! You should see your footsteps in the moss or the knee-deep snow, at least until time comes along and fills them up with dirt and water or a fresh drift of snow. If you bear 300 pounds in your pack, no matter how strong you are, you're going to sink down into the ground and slow your movement. If you across rocks, then no footprints, but be careful you don't fall off any boulders.
Speaking of pack weights and sizes, you should not be able to carry large amounts of items. You could have a size limit to your pack instead of weight (or in addition to). If you have a lot of stuff, you're going to be puffing a little and your face will turn red. Or in the cold, you should see the frost on your facial hair (if any) and the breath rising in front of your blue face.
As for magic, take all the systems. You need mana, you need a scroll/spellbook, you need the components, the words, and the gestures (hard if you have a sword in your hand, eh? should have to put it away first). After a while, your mind won't be able to take the strain. Your lips might even get numb from the jarring words, and you can't cast verbally for a while, no matter how ready you are to cast. If you aren't strong enough, waving your hands about will wear you down and you won't be able to cast somatic spells.
On strength and such stats, the more you use these things, the better you should get. Starting out at 15 str in BG and ending with 15 str (without tomes or other magic aid) seems somewhat unrealistic.
Well, all for now. Food awaits. (Put some food into the game! Or at least chocolate Easter Eggs, he he)

Actually the Jon Snow storyline has magical races, so they do exist. DA's relation to Martin's world is more one of atmosphere and political intrigue. We didn't just take his world and change a few names. It is definitely our own vision of a unique world. Just fished this from the bioware boards. Sorry if this has been covered in one of your threads Chev. I don't know if you've read A song of Fire and Ice but if Dragon Age has but 10% of it's intrigue and/or atmosphere it will be one of the best stories ever created for a CRPG!

This may also mean a Mature rating which would be great. Imagine a story like Fire and Ice with the maturity of Fallout.

BioWare will never release a game with an M rating. It'd be murder on the sales. Only niche products can afford such a rating - CRPGs aimed at the whole family (which BioWare's are), definitely can't.

CRPGs aimed at the whole family (which BioWare's are), definitely can't. Has this been confirmed by Bioware already? Sure they haven't made a mature rated game yet. I'm not asking for blood and gore here more for a realistic and gritty (which is confirmed) atmosphere. In such atmosphere certainly belongs profanity and that would make it Mature rated.

Blackisle made a 2 mature games and I'm sure Fallout 2 was a financial succes for them, they had a family reputation also with Baldurs gate. And in my opinion the people who play PCRPG's are pretty much fed up with the always nice playing prancing little elves and other fairy creatures and I hope (and think) Bioware realizes that.

Call it an educated guess. After following BioWare's work for the last 5 years, I think I have a good idea of their corporate mentality. And it doesn't include M rated games. But this is just good business sense, as these days the PC games are getting pushed off the shelves more and more, and some of the largest retailers in the US don't even stock M rated games, so anyone making such a game needs to be either VERY sure of themselves (read, GTA-like sure), or realize up front that their game will be a niche product.

Anyway, if you just want profanity in a game that wouldn't even remotely make it rated M. The US censors usually don't have (m)any problems with profanity and graphic violence in games, but heaven forbid any skin should be shown anywhere... that's a guaranteed M rating on the spot. Double standards & puritanism galore.

As for BIS, they had a somewhat more diverse corporate image than BioWare does... I certainly would welcome some more gritty CRPGs from BioWare, but as long as the type of games they are making consistently sell in the millions, I don't think it's realistic to expect any major shifts in product perspective.

Edit: Almost forgot to add this: with the licences BioWare has worked up till now, they've also been restricted in terms of content and rating. They couldn't make an M rated D&D or Star Wars game even if they wanted to. With their own IP they'll be free to do whatever they like, so it might be somewhat more explicit, but I doubt by much. BioWare makes millions from making licenced games, and they don't want to kiss that revenue goodbye by making games that would make George Lucas or Wizards of the Coast shy away from associating with them.

Classes:
Bards: Bards should be Jacks of All Trades, and decent jacks, too. Not those damn half dead jacks that are mute wizards, clumsy thieves and little else. I loved the insane lore that BG2 gave bards, it actually made them useful, but bards should be able to fight. If you actually look at history, bards or the like associated with an army used some lethal tricks like throwing longswords, playing insturments so loud and bad as to actually cause physical pain to the enemy, etc.
Paladins: Paladins should get a lot of bonuses in conversation. All goodly folk look up to them and all evil folk cower in their wake. Almost as good as fighters in combat, plus effective, but not to powerful, combat healers, blessers, etc.
Rangers: Rangers should be more like the combat rogue, snipe the enemy from a distance or hit hard and fast and get out. Spells or spell-like abilities are optional.
Mages: I would love to see an effective battle mage. Someone who could charge into battle with a (recently ignited) longsword, cleave an orc or two in half, let out a quick volley of magic attacks, and raise a mana shield just in time to block an attack. Magic in Fable often ended up being like this, and well so, but players should also be able to blast the enemy with epic levels of raw destructive force if they want to go that way.
Magic: I'm not even sure they should differentiate between divine and arcane. I'm not sure they shouldn't, but I'm not sure they should. Assume they do for the moment.
Divine: Divine magic should be the blessings from above type thing. The priest can call on their deity for aid whenever they want, but if the deity doesn't like what the priest is doing or thinks the priest is abusing the privelidge, (s)he should deny the spell. Maybe an increased chance of spell failure each time a spell is cast per day, but no other limitations.
Arcane: I've always thought arcane magic should be the raw manifestaion of will upon the physical universe, no incantations, no components, maybe scrolls describing the process, but those you could only learn from, not cast from. Magic should be fueled in this system by the caster's energy and thus drain and exhaust them, but a caster should only collapse after a spell as a last ditch effort to save lives or something.
Gameplay: Make decisions in the game have real, major, and obvious differences. No 'blue clothing instead of red means a particular town is destroyed' or anything, but if you cuss someone out, they probably won't sell you much any more and if you decide to sacrifice an innocent girl, her family may be a litte peeved. Same idea in romances. I like the idea of player initiated dialogue, but id you're trying to fondle the girl every 5 seconds, she may not like you so much anymore. On the otherhand, if you're always weeping about how hard the world is, another girl may not think you're particularly manly. Same kind of things for female players. Chevalier, you have the right idea. Custamizable equipment is a must. It's ok if there aren't many enchanted guisarmes in the game, but if you also can't get your own, that's a problem. Lots of effects on them, too. I want way more than +x and bonus fire damage. And not all should necesarily be practical. What if I want my holy paladin to glow in the dark? Or my evil necromancer to drip blood? And the cloak of displacement plus flametongue just look sooooooooooooooo cool on Minsc! Not just weapons and armor, either. Put those random bracers and rings and boots that you find to good use. And enchanted clothes. Nobody said mages HAD to wear robes, right.
Arenas and side games are a great idea as well. Actually, take a page from Final Fantasy here, especially FF VI and VII. Be able to bid on rare items, challenge reigning champions to duels, etc. BG2 started on this, but not nearly enough. While your at it, make animals hard. There's a reason people use huge traps and holes in the grount to hunt bears. If a professional soldier with a big game rifle risks his life going after a bear, your fighter with a scimitar and wooden shield doesn't stand a chance. Animals that are summoned should be useful, not just cannon-fodder.
Large prologues and epilogues are rarely a bad idea, especially if they are well done and don't become repeditive. Don't just let the game tell you what happens to a town, go there and find out. Resolve a few new problems, etc.
PC/NPC/Party: Character avatars and paper dolls (if applicable) should be highly customizable, and forget the anime style or the half-starved look BG2 gave all the elves. I want a fat elf with a cleft chin! Give my dwarven raider a few scars! Actually, Fable had a great system for this, if it had been applied to a real game not a proof-of-concept model. I don't know how applicable that would be, but customization is key. I also like what ToEE did for the party. you can start out with 1-5 players and pick up npcs to fill it up to 8. I don't like that npcs looted and refused to give you anything, and sold everything you gave them, and generally acted like jerks (that's why I killed them all), but being able to make a variable number of pcs and fill in npcs as desired is a good idea. Ofcourse, no romances or side-quests with pcs only, but the option of playing a 1 person party should be there, as should being able to make several characters.
Dragons should be HUGE, and powerful. Forget what D&D says, read Anne McCaffrey's PERN series, the largest gold dragon has a 1/2 mile (I think) wingspan! Admitadly, that's the largest dragon in the entire history of PERN, but still. Or even better, read Tolkein's Silmarillion. THe first and largest dragon crushes an entire mountain range when he dies! Think a dragon the size of the Appalacians! Ok, so maybe you'll never fight one that big, but no one said all dragons had to be the same size, there can be a wide variety of sizes. Demons should be seriously powerful as well. And liches should be nigh-immortal.
Pull lots of enemies and monsters from mythology and folk lore (accurately, D&D basilisks seriously piss me off) but also throw in lots of your own. The first gives a grand and epic feel while the second keeps players on their toes. In the end, just be creative, and I don't mean throw a whole bunch of random stuff together and call it a monster, but I loved the aliens in Fallout 2 in the well/mine. Those things were sweet! And remember, a random vampiric teifling flying squirrel that wanders the wilderness attacking everything in sight isn't out of place, just don't do stuff like this too much.
Have availability, but not necessity, for rogues to do lots more, too. I mean real assassin stuff. Hire yourself out to your target as an innocent clothes washer and then line all his/her clothes with traces of mercury for a few months, when his hair starts falling out and he rambles to himself in the halls at night, call in your good 'doctor' friend to treat him with tinctures. If it only gets worse, blame it on a random crone cursing him. Have her burnt at the stake. Secretly dance on their graves in the moonlight. Sorry, got a little carried away there.
I really did love the epic stories and random hits in the item descriptions in BG1&2. I especially loved the flametongue at the bottom of Durlag's tower, the one that 'doesn't quit fit your hand right' and 'seems like it wasn't made for you, or any humanoid...' Forget backing it up with more, just some random hints at ancient and alien races that once walked the earth as gods.
Grand vistas are important, too. I mean, there's the random cliff in the mountains and then there's the random cliff overlooking a fog-clouded valley with a waterfall falling into the mists. Its the little things that really make you fall in love with a game. Lots of easter eggs, too. Not game-changing things, but like skynet in Fallout 2. Montages to great fantasy writers, artists, thinkers of the past and such.

[ July 26, 2005, 07:47: Message edited by: CLSVABCH ]

NPCs.

There need not be thousands, but a few well developed NPCs that I can both relate to as well as like. NPCs that I remember years after playing the game: Minsc, Jahera, Dogmeat...Bioware is great at character and story development and total emersion in the game.

This little thing is what I want.

The problem with that is that the few NPCs may not be classes that you want, especially if you want a rather obscure group. The problem I had with BG2 was that the good characters weren't the classes I wanted. I wanted a good pure mage and a good pure thief. They just didn't exist.

I would like to see a distinct lack of suck-itude. You hear that Bioware?

Don't make the interface part of the challenge...

&

Don't ruin the plot so some frequent masturbator can realize his impotent dreams of being "evil"...

&

Less space-hamsters, please... I would like my girlfriend to respect me, at least somewhat... Boo is not helping me win arguements...

(on second thought...keep Boo...he's such a fuzzy-wuzzy-wuzzy)

I agree 100% with the first comment!

How about a game and storyline that doesn't REQUIRE that you have a thief on your team, but at the same time, thieves come in handy. No unavoidable hoasts of traps, not unless you're charging into a thieve's guild. No 'all powerful items are in locked and trapped chests', most uber-powerful items should be taken from corpses, either those you recently slew or those the dragon you just slew killed centuries ago. Who in their right minds puts the second most powerful sword they've ever seen in a locked and trapped box in the middle of a random cave? On the other hand, that thief would come in awefully handy to nick the map to the dragon's cave, or to sneak into the uber-rich collector's house and clean him out.

I would also like to see equal effort put into an 'evil' development and conclusion of the plot as is put into the 'good' one. Don't just side with the vampires and perform morally questionable/murky actions like murdering a bunch of murdering thugs. I want the option to burn down a town, and if I do, I want people after me, hunting me down. If people know it was me, ordinary people will shun me and refuse to deal with me, while certain darker persons may feel more at ease with me. If I save the town from being burnt down, I can hunt down the culpret, track their footprints in the snow if I get there soon enough and don't linger.

That's another issue. There should be time for exploration and just doing stuff, but if you're trying to save the world from an asteroid plumeting to a catestrophic impact (a little FF VII there), you aren't going on vacation in the tropics in the middle of it, and you aren't going to care if little miss whiner wants you to listen to her more. There are few things that annoy me more in BG II than when one of the romancers, IN THE MIDDLE OF A BATTLE OR SIMILARLY DRAMATIC MOMENT, wants to talk.

Get Froggy.
LOL. I've only heard Texans use this phrase, and I thought it meant to get riled up and angry. Hmm...

I'll echo chev's bit about the PC's reputation. NPCs need to have memories. They need to hear gossip about the PC's actions; they need to remember things the PC has done, both good and bad. "Say, aren't you the bastard that robbed my neighbor?! Get the heck out of my store!" "Ah, you're the hero that saved the village, aren't you? In that case, I'm giving you a discount." Those sorts of comments are great. Not just lower prices because your reputation is higher.

They also should recognize equipment the PC is wearing or the PC's companions. "What are you doing with that bloke? He's a known thief and scoundrel! Get out of my store!" "Say, that's quite a staff you're carrying! Wait! I recognize that staff! It was the mage guild master's! You must be the guy who killed him and stole it! Guards!"

What would I like to see in Dragon Age?

The absence of bugs. Not the creepy-crawly kind, but the gamey-crashy kind.

DR, you hold the world to high standards. Patches aren't just released because game companies are too lazy/impatient to properly debug the games themselves. The other reason is that players, like you and me, ask for all kinds of crappy bonuses like ridable horses, NPCs that remember what you did, and the ability to actually be good or evil in the game. This means the game has to be so big and complex that it would take several years to properly debug it. Instead of making us hold our breaths for several years, the game companies decided to release versions of the game that are REASONABLY bug free and let the gamers playing it find any remaining bugs. Periodically, when enough bugs have been found and fixed, the company will release a patch to 'update' the game. After a few years, someone has probably tried every single thing possible in the game, and more than a few things not possible in the game, and reported any problems they have encountered. At this point, and ONLY this point, is the game considered to be truely bug free.

On the other hand, I would like it if my character didn't spontaneously explode all over the 'camera' the first time he talked to anyone.