Hi,

Ok in response to the "one mean dwarven kensai hammer thrower, archers suck" thread I asserted that halfings and elves do in fact get their quoted racial bonuses with slings, bows and swords.

Maybe everybody knows this already but I found out a few extras I hadnt considered. (At least one person didn't know this :) )

Well to verify this I did some checking with new created characters altered with SK to outfit weapons and set strength etc.

Firstly swords and elves:
Using my two kensai, one elf, one human, same stats.

See thread: http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/004189.html

Summary elves get +1 THACO with short swords, long swords, bastard swords, 2 handed swords, katanas, scimitars and ninja do (same class as scimitar), only daggers are missing as far as bladed wpns go (and yes I know an axe and a halberd have a blade, - but I am not counting them!)

Next halfings slings, elves and bows.

Created three fighters, elf, halfing, human,
strength dex 15 for each. base THACO for all is 14 (lvl 7). All had one prof point in each ranged wpn.

Equiped with +1 ranged wpns and +1 missiles.

human
+1 dart thaco 13
+1 sling +1 bullet thaco 12
+1 sbow +1 arrow thaco 12
+1 longbow +1 arrow thaco 11
+1 h crossbow + 1 bolt thaco 12

halfing
+1 dart thaco 12
+1 sling +1 bullet thaco 11
+1 sbow +1 arrow thaco 12
+1 longbow +1 arrow thaco 11
+1 h crossbow + 1 bolt thaco 12

elf
+1 dart thaco 13
+1 sling +1 bullet thaco 12
+1 sbow +1 arrow thaco 11
+1 longbow +1 arrow thaco 10
+1 h crossbow + 1 bolt thaco 12

Result: elves get +1 THACO in sbow and lbow
halfings get +1 THACO in slings and darts! (never knew about darts)
humans are default.

Note the +1 lbow does +2 THACO (+1 for being a lbow) and the short bow +1 does +1 only.

Maybe dwarves get bonuses with hammers and axes :) anyone experimented? Come on Mirkwood this is one for you :D

I haven't checked damage as this is much more time consuming to do, maybe I will get round to it in the next day or so. I'll have to have a think how to do this though. Using a kensai's kai shot would ensure max damage each time and allow me to see any difference. Hmm, those goblins in dungeon are in for a pasting. :) Tomorrows project. I really need to get back to Jikiri and the planar prison, not to mention Serion who has just entered Watchers Keep and Aranel my undead hunter who has just met Viccy and likes what he sees. Oh my poor creations have been neglected tonight, woe is me :)


Addendum:

I did a very quick check with my two kensai (elf and human), using kai and a plain long sword and they do the same damage. Hence, without checking all of the other options including the ranged wpn racial bonuses I am making the sweeping generalisation that racial wpn bonuses only give +1 THACO and don't give any damage bonus.

Cheers,

WittyNewt

[This message has been edited by wittynewt (edited November 15, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by wittynewt (edited November 15, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by wittynewt (edited November 15, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by wittynewt (edited November 15, 2001).]

Thats some handy research; thanks a lot WittyNewt.

Very well done. And put objectively too.

Great Job!

Yeah! Well done. A pity that these bonuses do not apply to long swords(in the case of elves)

Yep - good job :) In a response to the same topic I compared a pure elven and human fighter with 2hd swords, l'swords and l'bows.

I found the elf to have aper 1 point better THACO there as well. So, as it seems elves do in infact get a racial bonus for these weapons.

Mental note: I have to check out halflings and shortswords too.

Thanks for the info. I will also check the Archer vs. Kensai in ranged attack for teh other topic.

there is nothing better than a good workshare , marnix ;) I think I'll make a comparison of a human archer and a human fighter to round up the whole picture.

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited November 15, 2001).]

Hi,

Thanks for the support folks, glad to be of service.

Some more info:

I did a quick check with my two kensai using kai and a plain long sword and they do the same damage. Looks like racial bonuses only give a THACO benefit.

Checking the other options for damge would be a long haul since you woudl have to wait for a critical to ensure you are comparing like with like. I think its a good bet only THACO gets a bonus.

Hmmm, I didn't consider short swords and halfings, would make sense, but I can find no reference to any racial bonuses apart from elves and bows and swords and halfings and slings in any of the character generation text or the manual. the real surpise for me in this analysis was the scope of the sword for elves and the dart bonus for halfings.

It would be nice if dwarves got a bonus for hammers and axes and halfings with short swords, but don't hold your breath.....
Cheers,

WittyNewt.

Halflings receive a +1 THACO bonus when using slings, considering they can have dex-19 this can result in a +2 racial bonus for this weapon.

They, however, do not receive any boni when using a shortsword :(

Hi,

Good point about the dex benefit and ranged weapons I forgot about that. Same applies with elves and bows.

Yep shame about shortswords, still don't forget they also rather strangely get a +1 (+2 with dex 19) THACO benefit in darts as well! See my top post if you missed it.

Darts will get the same benefit from bracers of archery as other missile wpns and you can throw three per round basic. I found darts of wounding and those asps nest darts to be very deadly in my first time through.

Cheers,

WittyNewt.

[This message has been edited by wittynewt (edited November 15, 2001).]

Hmm... I believe my archer had like thac0 -14 at the end of the game...
thac0 -14 or -13 don't really matter now does it?
Still I'd have to say it's some nice research.
If you want to test the damage,
why not give all players kai thru SK or is that not possible?
Critical hits also have varying damage.

Hi,

Thanks stressedE,

I don't think you need anything better than THACO of -12 since I think demogorgon is the lowest AC you would see at -12, but I have only got to chapter 8 with my first party so far and haven't seen all the monsters, this is just checking the monster manual really, and reading this board which told me demogorgon is in that keep and my first party has just entered there! :D

To be honest, I can't be bothered with the hassle of hacking them with SK and running another expt. I think that if elves don't get a racial bonus to damage and I've proved that then it is a pretty safe bet racial bonuses only apply to THACO. Of course, I might be wrong, I was surprised about darts and halfings.

Be my guest if you want to try.

I thought a critical hit did double full damage? maybe it only does double rolled damage? I will check this one.

Cheers,

WittyNewt.

Yw m8,

never heard of demogorgon.. Is he in ToB? I just bought it but still running my party through SoA. I'm gonna try and run a party through BGI + expansion and BGII + expansion next time, anyways
I don't have SK installed, and I don't think I'm gonna install it and get to know how it works just for the experiment.
IIRC critical hits vary in damage, so probably it throws the hit dice and then doubles the damage