View Full Version : Nerfed spells
Sun, 22nd Jan '06, 3:50am
I was reading some comments on the NWN2 boards, and it looks like they are going to make some changes in the spell system.
The Heal and Harm spells are now capped at 150 damage (and allow a will save for half, to boot). That's fine, as they were kind of owerpowered. Haste is nerfed as well (exactly how, I don't know), although this would make sense only if there are no permahaste items (which were indeed kind of overpowered in the original NWN).
Also, looks like they decided that the level 2 buff spells were too long in duration, so that was reduced. Also, instead of giving 1+ 1d4, the increase in stats is fixed at 4. The low duration may make those kind of pointless, though. After all, +2 increase to modifiers is not so much, and if it doesn't even last...
Sun, 22nd Jan '06, 5:06am
This is not exactly nerfing since these are the changes made in the 3.5 edition. So, since NWN2 is 3.5 edition, they are simply making the changes necessary.
Tue, 24th Jan '06, 10:26am
I'll be happy as long as they don't screw up the crafting system, as they did in NWN1...
NOG (No Other Gods)
Fri, 27th Jan '06, 6:32pm
How about make Harm a ranged spell with no touch attack, like Heal is. That was the big limitation to Harm in BG and NWN 1, you had to make a ranged touch attack on top of beating spell resistance, and clerics and druids are designed to have less of an emphasis on Dex.
Fri, 27th Jan '06, 11:40pm
Right, I have looked into the 3.5 edition description of the Harm and Heal, and that's how it is supposed to be.
Still, it is nerfed compared to NWN1 rules. I wonder if they will do such stuff to wizard spells (IGMS, for example).
Also, I am kind of dissapointed in the reduced duration for the buff spells. Now it's 1 min per level (what is 1 min in terms of rounds, anyhow? I wish they'd stick to just one way of measuring duration).
Sun, 29th Jan '06, 2:50am
A round is 6 seconds, so a minute is 10 rounds. My understanding of the 3.5 change behind the duration of those spells is that they were more intended to be combat spells, not essentially permanent increases for stats.
Mon, 30th Jan '06, 10:45pm
Hopefully it won't be like with IWD2; summons that last for a blink, spells that don't do a sheit, and a general feeling of uselessness. This same has happened a few times with other games, the stuff becoming to useless that it isn't even fun to use them anymore, ultimately degenerating back to the o'le hack'n'slash method...
Wed, 14th Jun '06, 12:28am
Actually I think in IWD2 the spells were quite powerful. Also, the monsters had much lower saves than what you encounter in NWN.
Anyhow, the point of reposting in this thread: I just figured that two turns (or 20 rounds =2min) is about one hour in game time; so changing the duration from 1h/level to 1min/level means a reduction of roughly half. Which is not too bad. It would make Bull's strength last about the same amount of time as improved invisibility. With the Extend Spell feat, you can still run around buffed all day.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Wed, 14th Jun '06, 6:17am
well i hope sorc/wiz spells aren't nerfed, they are already underpowered already
Fri, 16th Jun '06, 6:16pm
@CJLP: Dude, what are you talking about?? Have you PLAYED the classes?? :p :p :p
On Topic: IIRC, some of these changes were incorporated into NWN1 by the PRC...all I am interested in is the number of prestige classes and the epic spell casting system...if we only have like 6 epic spells I am going to be so mad... :p
Wed, 21st Jun '06, 10:03pm
Hopefully it won't be like with IWD2; summons that last for a blink, spells that don't do a sheit, and a general feeling of uselessness. This same has happened a few times with other games, the stuff becoming to useless that it isn't even fun to use them anymore, ultimately degenerating back to the o'le hack'n'slash method...Yea, I think this is one instance that DnD doesn't translate well into "real time." Sometimes I'm buffering my party and spells dissipate before I finish buffering. There really needs to be a sort of, "non-combat amnesty" where buffer spells don't dissipate until the specified duration of the spell when combat mode begins.
On the other hand, there is probably going to be such an amount of magic items in this game rendering buffering useless, or close to it. And then what's the point of playing or having a mage/cleric at all?
But yea, it's good they nerfed the heal/harm spells, even it's not nerfed that much. You know they're going to have a heal potion that is pretty much the same thing except anyone can use it. I had played nwns the first time with a cleric, then the second time I chose a class that didn't have any healing spells and when I created my character I was thinking it would be harder because I couldn't use heal, then I discovered the heal potion... That was essentially a "legal" cheat code.
Thu, 22nd Jun '06, 12:31pm
I dont care as much what kind of a balance there'll be in the official campaign. Even if it's not balanced, i dont play single player to "win" but to enjoy the story. If fighters pwn the game because of the equipment, so be it. There'll be more challenge playing with a magic user.
If we take a good look at NwN1, you cant help but notice balance is practicaly non-existent in OC. Meleeing single-classed mages bludgeon through everything. I think this explains it all ;)
Where balance does become the issue are multiplayer worlds. Fortunately, here's where the human factor comes in. Game creators made possibilities and options. Gameworld creators are in hundreds, as i hear it'll be similar to NwN1 multiplayer. Someone ought to get the balance right for you.
Thu, 22nd Jun '06, 10:27pm
I am sure one thing that will affect balance in the single player is the fact that you control a party. So now that you don't have to be a one-man wrecking crew anymore, you can do with slightly less powered spells.
As for multiplayer: I am sure that people will find ways to game the system at the beginning :) Probably it will take some time till the DMs figure out what works and what doesn't.