In part's 1 and 2 of the BG-series there are numerous hints and stories about what happened before the entre saga and before the maturing of charname. What do you think should be included in the game?

I think that Gorion should be a joinable NPC and a mission that takes the party to a druid grove where they meet with a young Jaheira during her training. Another mission should probably deal with a Firkaag plot, probably not dealing with him personally but with his henchmen.

Seeing as Gorion was a level 9 wizard (IIRC) that should also be the level cap of this game, and probably ends with a mayor attack on a temple of Bhaal where a baby can be saved, and a baby gets left behind.

Maybe the father of neeber and noober can be included, as well as a gnomish inventor who breeds miniature giant space hamsters, but lost one in Rasheman.

I think it would be cool that the party works for the harpers and at the end officially become members of this organisation.

What are your thoughts about this?

Hmm, they seems viable. I would also like to have more includations of NPC's of the game, like a young Keldorn joins the party as well as maybe Kagain or Korgan.

The adventures of the young Gorion. It could be like Smallville or Young Indiana Jones. Oh, the antics he probably got up to as a nipper. Maybe it could end with him adopting the BG1 hero.

Well, since the name of the game IS Baldur's Gate III, it would be cool to take a part in the saga of Baldur's Gate, the city itself.

Maybe you could even adventure with Balduran and see what really happened. That one quest in Tales of the Sword Coast left me wanting more.

It should be in the city, I don't know if they could maintain the same NPC's, but it would be cool. As for the graphics, it could improve a little, but other than that, maybe a wider variety of avatars.

The story could be anything. But they better let me create a character other than playing with a premade one. Gorion would indeed be cool as a PC though ;)

I would love to see the infinity engine again but that is just not going to happen. I hope the PC will be somebody and not a nobody like in NWN. Anyway, I am sure Atari will destroy it anyway so I really don't care.

Why all the hate for NWN? I didn't think it was that bad....although I agree its better when the PC has a personality that goes beyond "You're a hero--go run errands"

Gorion as the PC would lack variety, I love sub-classes, and sub-races, that way you can play the game a million times over.

Because NWN was boring, that's why. Gorion could be the PC and still be different classes. Who knows what he did in his younger days.

It would be boring because he'd have to be a human no matter what, and most likely of Good alignment unless he reformed somehow. I'd like him a lot more as a joinable NPC.

"NWN was boring," :p It helps pass the time.

Gorion could have mutated into a human as he got older.

It would be boring because he'd have to be a human no matter what, and most likely of Good alignment unless he reformed somehow. Of course that would all depend on how well the creation of the game was done. Less flexibility in initial character creation can lead to a more focused plot.

Well, I guess no BG1 or BG2 NPCs should be joinable in the BG3 prequel. That's because BG1 NPCs, including the mighty adventurers Jaheira and Khalid are level 1 for some reason pertaining to game balance :rolleyes: It would be totally stupid to be able to bring let's say... Jaheira and Khalid to levels in the vicinity of 30 while you ekhm... met them *later* at level 1, right?

Keldorn could be, Firkraag as well - of course, that would mean Garren Windspear in the story. They could make some mention of Aerie losing her wings, perhaps.

How about hearing about some poachers who went into the mountains as an injoke?

@ Rednick,

You may have hit on something there with Balduran
TOTSC enlarged an already big opening of the mystery surrounding Balduran. (I'll hold up my hand and say I have never read any of the forgotten realms books, they've always looked too slim to be worth buying) Maybe a Ulysses - type saga of trying to retrieve his butter knife!

They could make some mention of Aerie losing her wings, perhaps.Please, somebody stab me in the eyes with a rusty butter knife if this happens. Please. Unless an evil PC can pull her wings off him/herself. I'm down with that. :evil:

I like the idea of the adventures of young Gorion. It would make the game more like PS:T, though (but isn't necessarily a bad thing). At the very least, make him joinable.

All said, I think I like the idea of a Balduran story more. There's more places they could go with it, and we wouldn't have an unduly low level cap to deal with. Level caps are teh sux in CRPGs.

Damn shame they're doing a prequel, though. I would have loved a Planescape-esque romp through the Outer Planes as Charname sought to establish Lordship and Dominion(tm).

Gorion and his harper friends did rescue Charname. But there's no reason to make PC be a part of that gang. Afterall, there must be the freedom of choice. PC should be a very important factor in the events, possibly even joining Gorion in a temporary alliance. But he should not become a harper unless the player wanted to do so.

Thanks to that, levelcaps etc limitations shouldn't play a major role either. Whatever strength or influence Gorion had in BG1, shouldn't be connected to what the PC would be like in BG3. Besides, Gorion probably spent most of the entire 20 years raising Charname in relative peace, away from combat. 20 years for a human is a long time. Even being a wizard, who's to say he wasn't many levels weaker in BG1 due to long years of lack of practice?

I do agree with the many ideas above of how there should be hints to the characters and events in BG1 & 2. Getting a glance of Jaheira, meeting Valygar's family, bumping into Jan's uncle (the one that became and amazing prophet during the Time of Troubles), or even seeing Irenicus himself when he was still in the favor of the elven gods, all sound good. BG3 would make an excellent stand-alone title because it's basically a new beginning. But it should be filled with quests and characters that people familiar with BG1 & 2 would recognize in joy.

Firkraag is also a must, as Chev said. This is also one of the reasons I don't think a level 10 cap is appropriate, as Firkraag is too powerful to be easily beaten by a level 10 party. Yes I know it can be done in BG2, easily even. But I don't see that as how it was supposed to be.

The ending should be made in a manner that ensured the PC would never run into Charname, or meddle in their affairs. Wether because of death, moving away from the "mainland", or being forced to do so because of the gods themselves, is the developer's own choice. But this is the only viable solution to giving the PC enough power and influence in BG3 to make it seem worthwhile, while at the same time making sure there was never any reason to bring him up in BG1 & 2.

Also, I so hope they would use an engine that allowed for easy modifications. Some day, who knows, a great big modding group could import BG1 and 2 into this new engine as well. :)

That's being way too optimistic but hey, it's hope that keeps us going.

Edit: Oh and something about the combat and experience. If they go for the NWN / KoTOR style scaling enemy levels, then I won't play it before someone makes a mod removing that feature. NWN and KoTOR both almost completely lacked the feeling of advancement and growth in power as the exactly same enemies always became stronger while you did. It was very close to the sucky system some older games had, where basically getting fireball meant every enemy gained high resistances or immunity to it. Or getting a new melee skill meant every enemy got a new defensive skill.

BG2 handled this well. You hacked more enemies, you got more powerful. The others didn't get any more powerful of course, so you could enjoy what you had earned. If you wanted challenge, then you wouldn't go for the powergamer style. And if you were really powerful, then the occasional extra golem or lich would appear to make things a bit more worthwhile. But you would *NEVER* find yourself pitted against common orcs that were nearly immune to fire and death magic simply because you happened to be level 15 instead of 8.

I know "I won't play it" is a typical teenwhine comment. But I mean it. I can read the story of the game in a walktrough, but I've lost no end of nerves in NWN and KoTOR due to that stupid system. A Jedi Master Consular can't duel a gaffi-stick using sandpeople with a lightsaber and win? Combat is a big part of these games, if combat feels like beating your head against a wall, then around 50-80% of the game is useless, depending on how much there is dialogue vs combat.

[ September 09, 2004, 09:43: Message edited by: Foradasthar ]

What if you travel to a paralell dimension and loose a significant portion of your power in the process? This would make it possible for the above things to occur. You could even reshape the destinies of the npc's and meet Firkraag as a young dragon etc.

@Stu: A little 12 Monkeys right? Charname would go back in time to do something and their younger self would see it. Interesting idea, that's why it became a cliche. [Not that cliches are bad, many work quite well and I like the idea in this situation]

How about a sidequest involving the BG3 PC having to rescue a young, kidnapped BG1 & 2 charname. This would allow for meeting Gorion, Jaheira, and Khalid.

@Chevalier: You're point is a valid one in that Jaheira and Khalid would be in negative levels if we met them under the same timeline as Baldur's Gate 1. But suppose for a moment that the timeline for Jaheira and Khalid is not the timeline of BG1 & 2's charname, the only timeline we truly concern ourselves with. Now in BG3 a new timeline for a new PC has occured and now we can meet Khalid and Jaheira at levels more fitting of experienced Harper's. All I'm saying is to allow for what we actor's call a "willing suspense of disbelief." The same thing that makes us able to watch an alien get shanked by a Predator when we know those creatures do not exist and are not shanking each other. I love you guys. The only people in the world who allow conventions to rule every aspect of their fantasy, when the very concept of fantasy defies order, conventions, and natural/scientific laws.

I would like it if, for example, you played Imoen (or a male equivalent) AFTER Charname from BG2 became a god, and possibly he could help you at certain parts of the story. That idea would be set in the chaos left after the Bhaalspawn war.. literally postapocalyptic. BTW, remember that the BG3 Charname will need to be variable, so any plot will need to avoid making the charname in such a way as to stop them being any specific alignment or class. IMHO that would be a problem with Charname being a Harper, as they are rarely if ever evil.

My turn to offer the reminder. Prequel. That means, BG3 happens *before* the events of BG1 & 2.

As we should have all determined in BG2 the organization may in fact be geared to a certain alignment, but the individuals in it don't necessarily have to. Besides unless they add more alignment-based quests and plot twists than playing as an evil character wouldn't be any fun.

Personally I think a Baldurs Gate III may be a disaester. We all like the infinity engine and now that it is not going to be there I think we may judge it a little harsher. As for the game itself BGII is gonna be tough to beat. There are to many avenues for the company to go down. Do we bring in Gorion, Firkraag, young Aeries and Jaheira's. Or do we bring in a whole new set of NPC's with some hints to Gorion and the ward. In my opinion, I think alot of people may be disgusted with this game when it comes out. Not only with the gameplay but with the storyline as well. But I certainly hope I am wrong.

Folks,
Here is a concept that I came up with...
Gorion is an PC that joins your party. Bhaal is out hmmm... having his way with all and sundry (including Rabbits, Dragons, Fire Giants, et al- that boy is seriously sick and twisted!) The Bhaal cult is collecting these Bhaal spawn or killing them (The bad guys). your job if you choose to accept it is to find a safe place to hide some (maybe 2 like you and Imoen, in the future. You could have to protect the Pregnant mothers? Side line quests Minsc recieving head injuries and adopting a miniature giant space hampster? I do like Dirty Harr..urrr I mean Kivan. a quiet achiever.
Or alternately the Harpers trying to restore balance AND wipe out some Bhaal spawn. Or I'm not sure is it ever actually expalined how Bhaal dies???? huh huh- theres an opening if I ever heard one. Someone has to stop this serial sex offender.
just my 2 cents worth.
Red5llaw
ps I've actually bought 4 copies od BG1, 2 of BG 2 and IWD a couple also. There are certain disc's that just eventually wear out. Luckily the price drops over time. I can't wait for something new!!!!

Shouldn't be a game called BG3. The story finished, leave it there. And no prequel either. By all means call it BG3 but don't touch the original story at all.

Tow words for a playable NPC from a prequel: Uncle Spanky... From all of Jan's stories of the evil gnome illusionist would be faaaaantastic.

"Spanky Jansen, at your service" that would indeed be great. A halfling thief with the name thunderburp would great too :D

Prequel? Making a story, then adding some prequels to that story is always a disaster (Star Wars). I like BG2 as a nice endpoint. Everything tied up nice and neat, some loose ends but those are best left to the imagination. In all, you can't add to perfection.

@LeFleur

Since he was supposed to be a bit more nefarious than Jan ever was it would be more like.

"I've got a fantastic idea about what we can do with these Turnips and your big mouth."