If you had to come up with a good story for BG3 what would it be? Do you think it would be impossible to start off where ToB ended?

not really "good" but id say cohesive enough.

story 1:
PC chose to become a God. dependent upon whether your previous PC was good or evil, your new PC must quest to find/destroy something that Bhaal left in the event that he couldn't use his offspring to return which will cause yuor previous PC to lose godhood. Outrageous, I know hehe.

story 2:
Very Diablo-esque. The previous PC realized godhood was too much of a hassle, and remained mortal. slowly, his evil essence takes him over and as he is practically godlike already, he proceeds to wreak all sorts of chaos until your new PC can stop him. It's kind of a rip-off of the D1-D2 transition where the warrior you used in D1 can no longer contain Diablo and is consumed by him.

Perhaps playing a worshipper of Charname, while the original character's godly power is being forcibly decayed by Cyric in an effort to get the portfolio of Death?

I don't know. It's a bad plotline. But I think it's going to be hard for the plot to link to Charname and not be bad. Having the PC as Charname would be even worse. I'll be interested to see what's made of it.

I'm kind of with the Diablo-esque idea mentioned above. It wouldn't surprise me if Charname went crazy and some other hero had to hunt them all over the world and the planes. Of course, we wouldn't know who was causing the chaos until near the end.

The one promblem with that is it could end up to IceWind Dale- ike; were you have a party of "heros' off for gold, fame, and glory. They'd need to work in a more personal connection, good dialouge, and interesting quests.

Did you ever consider it could be an alternate version of Baldurs Gate II? Sort of like a BGII: Directors Cut (but good)

No

Hasn't it been said the BG3 will take place long before the Time of Troubles? So, anything involving the BG1 - 2 protagonist seemingly can't happen.

I reckon it should be about the BG protagonist's 'real' mother. She'd have a few stories to tell.

The problem with a prequal is that it's forced to be pretty linear if it is about someone mentioned in the already-created BG games. The outcome is already set in stone - if it was anything else, BGs 1 and 2 couldn't happen. And if people have already played the originals, they'd know what would happen.

OK then. Maybe it could be about the BG PC's mad uncle Fester who had all sorts of wild adventures that had absolutely no impact on the BG plot whatsoever.

Or they could make it that if you did not complete BGIII successfully then Gorion dies and BG could never happen so your BG and BGII discs automatically self-destruct as if they had never existed.

^That is the best and funniest idea yet. :D

As long as it takes place far back enough, and doesn't change anything HUGE(Bhaal being destroyed, Gorion saving Charname, etc), I don't see how it will mess up BG1 and 2.

Crazy idea:

<Charname> chose the ascension to godhood, but it was too much for him. The evil essence of Bhaal drove him mad, and now the minions of an insane demigod bent on havoc and destruction (perhaps to some unknown purpose) are doing just that in [this place in FR].

A bunch of adventurers band together to fight this evil (or just to rob the town mayor blind). Among some of the NPC's might be people who had relations with the previous NPC's - perhaps Cernd's child, Sir Keldorn's squire, so on...

I also think there should be a protagonist player. Perhaps there's one more lost Bhaalspawn?

Final thoughts: I'd like to see the game go from level 1 - 20. Seeing Yoshimo one last time would be awesome too.

I already said somewhere else that I like the idea of a prequel.

But for those of you who'd prefer a sequel, how about the idea of playing charname's child who has to band with some of charname's ex-companions since now that he turned to Godhood, he's gone mad or crazy or some other ailment. The fun part: you download you character from ToB and you have to defeat him at the end of the game. Wouldn't like to face yourself? See how good you were back in ToB? How tough you were to beat? Ok, 'nough said....

@stormhand

There would have to be some sort of built in charname for people who have never played BG2 or don't have it installed. That would make the experience very different for the newcomers to the BG series.

@ Gavin de Valge

Very true. However, I'd bet that 95%+ who'll play the game have played the original games. But then again, not everyone might have finished ToB. A pregenerated default character would probably suit newcomers I believe. But imagine the thrill for those who've played the game?!?!

I've never finished BGII: ToB so I'd be part of your <5%.

How about a new Time Of troubles has come about, with the result that the Gold Charname has descended to Earth. In order to regain his divine strength, he must once again roam the Earth in search of the answer.

Or.....

How about a thief style first person sneaker where you play as Imoen straling whatevr she can get her hands on in Candlekeep.

Or..... <This idea has literally just popped into my head so bear with me>

You Adventure at the side of Gorian and the Infant Imoen as they strive to return the other child of Bhaal to safety. They never really explained what happened to Imoen, so this isn't exactly beyond possibility.

That would be interesting fighting <charname>, the player could decide from the start how hard the final battle is going to be by the character he picks as <charname>. But it would make the AI for him hard to program.

Hmm. But surely you would then need to at some point choose an ingame class for CHarname. Wouldn't this sort of give away a little plot twist ever so slightly....?

I think that it will be hard to work Charname into the story, while at the same time making sure that there is a "Bhaahspawn Saga" quantity to it.

AFAIK it will be a prequel so talking bout a sequel is kinda moot :rolleyes: and as regards the imoen idea, she's roughly your age, so if gorion rescued charname as a child, wouldn't she be that age too?

Yeah, but in order to allow the new Charname to choose a clas, it would have to be more of an escort duty as opposed to being an infant Imoen. You could play a Field Harper, helping Kahlid, Jaheira and Gorian to round up the few Bhaalspawn they know of and keep them safe

My two cents: How about a prequel that is a sequel? Bear with me, I feel inspired today. :p

Irenicus likes clones. How about if he had created one of Charname, let’s call it Charclone, to be able to try more sordid or dangerous experiments with it? It makes sense to believe that a clone of Imoen should have also been created. Being clones, they could either have the same level as Charname had in the beginning of BG2, or (preferably) level 1, which would allow us to start from scratch, creating a completely different character.

BG3 starts with Charclone and Immyclone escaping from a different area of Irenicus Chateau, perhaps meeting some new friends. They take a portal that should send them to the exit, but because of the havoc they created to escape, the portal malfunctions and sends them to the past. They appear in the middle of a battle between Gorion and some friends of him, and some Bhaal followers. Because of the distraction caused by their appearance, one of Gorion's friends is killed.

Time stops, and Solar appears. She tells Charclone that Gorion's friend should have survived the battle to be able to help Gorion rescuing the infant Charname. Now history has been changed. Charname was never rescued and the future is in shambles. Charname and Sarevok grew together as friends, and when coming of age they ruled the Sword Coast. Neither Irenicus, nor Melissan or the other 5 Bhaalspawn stood a chance against the might of their combined forces. Then, they started a savage war between the two, to decide who would become the next God of Murder. Being already nearly as powerful as gods, they laid such destruction that there is little of the future world left. The Gods are dying too, because they have not enough followers, while Sarevok and Charname keep their endless struggle.

Charclone is then forced to rally with Gorion to try and save Charname’s infant self and the future, and also to save her/himself from being destroyed when the time paradoxes start correcting themselves (i.e., if Irenicus never captured Charname, no Charclone would have been created).

hehe what where you on when you thought of this? ;) but seriously, i think the idea's pretty good except for this part:

The Gods are dying too, because they have not enough followers, while Sarevok and Charname keep their endless struggle. while i understand the rationale of this, isn't it reaching a bit too far? but this is actually a pretty good idea :) except, would it be possible to create clones of imoen and charname? after all, they are bhaalspawn and Irenicus' attempts to clone ellisime who, iirc, was also of divine lineage ended up pretty badly.

As much as I'd prefer them to leave BG alone...

I think the idea of somehow ending up with/against the Harpers in or in the direct aftermath of the Time of Troubles sounds good. Flesh out the Gorion story a bit, entwining it around the main plot, which can be some desperate something to do something --> bonus points if they actually make it desperate (eg. You're racing someone to the Artifact of Doom - they can beat you, however, so there is some actual urgancy. So long as this does not mean you have to reload).

If I remember my BG history correct, there was quite a struggle going on for Gorion, Elminister and a group of other guys to save the Bhaal Spawns or something before <CharName> entered the picture. Actually, the only reason you entered the picture was because you were saved by that group.

What about making a story about that struggle. Starting with Elminister finding out about all the Bhaal Spawn, and all the chaos that come's with that. And it is your task as the character to uncover and stop the plot to destroy the earth. The story would then end when your character in BG1 is rescued as a child.

Actually I don't care what kind of story they make, aslong as it is good and they keep using the infinity engine. Tweak it all you want, but BG isn't BG without the Infinity Engine.

@Colthrun- Its crazy...but that is actually a really great story. Very original, and it makes sense. Yeah...except for the part about the gods dying, I'd revise that part.

I think you should play as Bhaal starting all of this. :D :evil:

@hazefire- Seriously, I don't see the problem with the gods dying. That's pretty much what happened to Amaunator.

Actually, except for the clones, I think that it's a great story. Time travel is always great for messing with peoples heads. Sorta like Fallout 2. That was great, getting exp for "ensuring your birth."

but how could the story work if you remove the clones? it'd have to be, like, charname is told he has to save himself when he's younger in order to be able to grow up properly to save the future, but while he's busy saving himself in the past, who's going to be busy doing the stuff that he should be doing at present? kinda incoherent, my bad, but do you guys get the point? :)

I don't like the guaranteed ending from a prequel. I don't want to have a slew of adventures (guaranteed to be epic!) as Gorion, knowing the end result will be to be cut down in the woods some night in my dotage after getting off a magic missile and maybe an acid arrow.

If this has to be a prequel, how about focusing on the predecessor of Charname...Bhaal. Bhaal, Myrkul, and Bane had a series of adventures that culminated in ascending to godhood, too. Heck, there could be an expansion called "Throne of Jergal." :rolleyes:

Ok, obviously that won't happen, but I really don't like the idea of a prequel. They tend to just lay the groundwork for the real story...which is the story I want to hear. I've never thought to myself "How did Gorion manage to save Charname? What were the specifics?"

I'd prefer a story only tangentially related, if that, to the other BGs than a prequel. I distrust prequels.

Damn you, George Lucas...damn you to Hell.

Lets assume that we all took the godly option, I know it's not true because I haven't yet.

Anyways new story, you've become the replacement for the God of Murder in a sense, even though they never say that, but you are a god. After some time like 10-15 years messed up things start to happen. So a new adventure has to rise up, they could be like Imoen's or Sarevok's child or something, and they have to find some relic (a weapon, an amulet, a jockstrap, something of you. But then the new dude learns of another group, the last remaining Death Stalkers of Bhaal are also looking for this relic. So now you really have to find it. Through the quest the new character makes friends and enemies, maybe even some of the original characters around still. It takes you through Baldurs Gate maybe and some of the other cities around there, and the Underdark, and maybe you end up in your original characters realm kinda like where you originally fight Jonn Boy.

It's just an idea.

Bhaal. Bhaal, Myrkul, and Bane had a series of adventures that culminated in ascending to godhood, too. really? afaik the only gods that were once humans are kelemvor, cyric and mystra. in fact, i believe even oghma makes this admission in (iirc its crucible) saying to mystra that their (oghma, talos, etc.) viewpoint is more limited than theirs (mystra,kelemvor,cyric) bec. they were never human.


(spoiler?)


if you were referring to their mortal status during the time of troubles, picking up the avatar trilogy will explain well enough what they were doing at this time so it may be kinda redundant to create a story about it.. thats just imo of course ;)

They have already said it's going to be a prequel, so nothing like ToB continuation is going to happen. Sure, it would be nice to see - whether or not Charname would have become a deity. Guess they would go for the ascention variant as the option of staying mortal could cause some real trouble in the realm of NPC romance: just think, most players would have chosen Viconia, but a large group would have gone for Aerie, some would have preferred Jaheira. And now you have to make one opening that would satisfy all. I don't know, killing all the girls or something like that? Getting rid of romance altogether with no hints whatsoever at Charname's (non-) marital life? Heh, that would suck. On the other hand, imagine choosing your girl or guy in character creation. Sucks as well.

@Enagonios: It was a really boring day at work and I had watched "The Sixth Day" recently :)

The idea of the Gods dying for lack of followers is not mine, actually. Remember Amaunator in BG2? And the end of "The Avatar Trilogy"?

...and discworld ;)

I've been thinking about this again, so here's a little train of thought that I always end up with. I know it has a little design theory in it, but screw that...

The series needs to feature Bhaal/Bhaalspawn/Anti-Bhaal people at somepoint, otherwise no Bhaalspwan trilogy, right?

The main character needs to be of importance, otherwise a) you have no impact on the world concerning death etc and b) your just following orders, and that doesnt make good roleplaying IMO

You need to be at least remotely good <picking evil sort of cuts your career path off since we know Bhaal dies>.

This pretty much guaruntees that you will be <at least originallY> part of an anti-bhaal organization. Im a little uninformed at this point, but to keep it mainstream <that is to say, not mainstream, but not just for D&D hardcore fanatics>, you will likely be affiliated with the Harpers <other religious orders could create conflicts with certain cleric PCs


If you want to be able to choose your alignment <and lets face it, would it really be CRPG if you couldn't?> then you have to have some sort of breaking away from the harpers <so you can have some slight deviation in how to use your <Insert Plot Critical here>.

(By this point you may be wondering If Im trying to make a point. I'm not really, Im just trying to reason out some things we can expect from the plot)

Oo! I know. Also, thnaks to the Avatar trilogy, you definitely won't be able to kill Bhaal yourself <unless you don't create your own character, something that is really unlikely>. So this pretty much takes away the possibility of Bhaal being one of your Main Enemies <unless of course there is Drizzt Style cameo of that party whos damned name I cant remember>. Which of course opens up the idea of not the man himself <so to speak> but a high priest somewhere. Why do i feel like I'm contradicting myself here?

You will likely meet Gorion at some point, althought it is not actually definite that he could join your party. Really depends on how long ago you meet him. Charname is supposed to be about 20 i think, an I'm guessing that Gorion is about 80 in BG1. Of course, being a wizard means he likely doesn't have to be in too great physical condition. This would also be an excuse to let him earn some of the respect and stuff that he has later on

There should be a city section, maybe two. Waterdeep is a possibility I was thinking of, mainly because just about everything else has been done. Revisiting your old places is fun and all, but if thats where the game is set, then people will likely soon get tired of it.


Well. Thats my thoughts. Enjoy them!

I like the idea of having Gorion in your party at some point, and the game ending with rescuing charname.

Why do you all love Gorion so much?! I think this game should be more open to playing a truly evil party and having Gorion be a neccisity in the party surely won't help that....
So, it'd be great if he was in it, like was said above, but I still think there should be a lot more options as to which path to take in BG3.

Well the only way I feel there is even a reason to continue the BG saga is by having either Charname, or someone incredibly closely related to him/her in the game.

Now there is nothing else s/he should "find to retreive his goodhood", that is made pretty apparent in ToB. S/he would not be consumed by his/her own power either, s/he's a god afterall. Besides which, depending upon his/her alignment, the ToB ending actually says that Charname became a good god instead.

While some guy in the past crucial to the events that lead to Charname's birth and safe growth would be ok, I'd prefer a more direct approach with some room for imagination.

What if BG3 was about Charname's child? Of course the player would have to be given dialogue options in the beginning to "decide" the gender and personalities of both of their parents. But aside from that, the story would be fairly easy to make.

Basically, the essence of Bhaal was still in Charname when this child was made, and so the child has some godly powers to them as well (even when Solar gathered the force together, this child could not give theirs by choice, so the essence within them would transform into whatever form of power the new god, Charname, would come to have), giving them the potential to either rise to the level of a demigod, or even a lesser god. You, Neocharname, could meet numerous of Charname's old allies. Like the now well-known archmage Imoen, legendary warrior Minsc, or the mage Edwin that would be at this point feared even in the most distant corners of Faerún. You could even search for Sarevok for someone to teach you how to bring about, and use your slight godly powers (assuming he wouldn't kill you on sight of course).

It may be this is a lame idea. But if too much of the events and characters in BG2 isn't assumed, and thus proven different from what the players themselves experienced, this could work. It's basically the same idea as before. But it would completely conclude everything connected to Bhaal and his seeds. And in essence, it would be more closely related to the plot and story in BG1-2 than many other potential ideas.

What if BG3 was about Charname's child? its a prequel so this is pretty much out methinks.

I heard the storyline has nothing to do wit the past BG games. I guess that' kinda good, to an extent.

There are rumours the stroyline would be back into the past of Baldur's Gate.

How about <Cha name> either relinquishing his godly powers to come back down or having another time of troubles and building up their own army to defeat the other gods. Could be a good warcraft map pack!!

Realistically I think that it would be infinitely difficult to make a good prequel. The developers should try to use an entirely different story. A prequel is to predictable and a sequel wouldn't be as fun (you're all ready a god - or near enough to one)

Err... Honestly i think the best storyline 4 a prequel would be 4 charname to be liked time-traveled to be4 candlekeep by some evil mage or something n he has to save himself or you're a char that(if good) you help the harpers rescue lil charname or (if bad) get screwed by the cultists of Bhaal, want revenge, and help the Harpers anyway :D like in BG2 u either doin it to find Imoen or beatdown Irenicus :D .

I'm most in favor of the story being about Balduran and his merry band of piratey cutthroats. Arrrr!
Seriously, what better character for a prequel to BG that goes back to the city of Baldur's Gate. Plus, we never did find out what happened to Balduran himself...

I agree with Kam to an extent. I don't believe it should have anyting to do with the Bhaal saga and should instead focus on Baldur's Gate. If they do want it to have something to do with the Bhaal saga, why not something about the Iron Throne?

I agree with Abomination. What if the game has you play the founder of the Iron Throne? Political and economical intrigues abound! And finally, an RPG where you HAVE to be the bad guy! :)

Not exactly taking a role in the founding of the Iron Throne - you don't want to force the PC to be evil, it is a role playing game after all so the PC should be given the choice. Rather it could bet set DURING the time the Iron Throne was being founded and you affect that process it indirectly.

Iron Throne would be a good extra. But I see no reason to make a prequel unless it was directly involved in the Bhaalspawn Saga.

I mean, making BG3 with nothing to do with Charname would be like making a new Dirty Harry movie with no dirty Harry. I think the PC being involved in Gorion and how he saved Charname from the temple of Bhaal not only a great idea. I think it's compulsory for the story to make any sense.

And while the story may end with Baldur's Gate, it's obvious it can't be limited to that city only. One of the biggest things in any fantasy games is the adventure. Being in one city all the time hardly has that much possibility for adventure, aside from the brick buildings and stone walls, that is.

And seriously, time warps, clonings, etc? Come on. We're not talking about an ö-rated movie here (ö being the last alphabet in Finland), we're talking about an ingenious roleplaying game with a plot that's a little above the most used cliché's in the world, at least. Obviously Charname's adventures have been concluded, from beginning as well as the end. There's nothing more to add unless it's about the God Charname establishing his power over Faerún. And that's hardly going to be the case, prequel or not.

I still don't see why they want to make it about Charname. Can't they just leave the Bhaal saga alone? It's pretty much complete, anything else would be forced and would be too predictable. You have to admit that the Baldur's Gate games had good surprises and turning points.

The idea of an RPG prequel is rather... well... stupid. You already know what is going to happen and it forces the PC to end the game in ONE WAY or in a way that doesn't affect the other games because otherwise the other games that it is based on would have to change.

How does it do that, really?

I mean, in the beginning of BG2 you already pretty much know you're going to become a God sooner or later (at least that's the way I always figured it). So the choice is what, to either not become one, or to become one, like in ToB. Oh and of course the third one, to die trying.

Well I suppose the lack of freedom to be able to die trying in BG3, effectively failing to save Charname from the temple would be a problem to some. Not to me however.

Sarcasm set aside, games have been made since forever with prophiecies and predictions making the main storyline. Heck, BG1&2 is all about prophecies of Alaundo come true, with some extra spice to it. What's the problem with knowing the prophecy yourself instead of reading about it while playing? It still doesn't change anything except the consequences of the ending.

PC can be anything he wants, from good to evil. A great celebrated hero, or a malicious evil emperor. The only thing that must be, is that somehow, Charname survives out of the temple with Gorion, and Sarevok is left behind. And that there is no reason for anyone to ever bring PC's name up in BG1 & 2. That's not much of a limitation if you asked me. Most games are build in tighter frames than that. In fact, pretty much all of them are.

I actually think a prequel a great idea. But it MUST be about Charname. I just don't see another way. BG 1 & 2 is all about Charname. Even if the name Baldur's Gate is used in the different console games as well, in PC there is but one meaning for Baldur's Gate. It's the tale of the Charname, from birth to death/godhood.

If Baldur's Gates were any more splintered, then perhaps they would be open for a prequel that only told of the world with its events and heroes in general. Much like Matrix and Animatrix. But with Forgotten Realms Faerún being as well known as it is, and with the games so far focusing explicitly on Charname, it just can't be done IMO. BG3 is BG, part 3. The name itself bounds it to be a continuation to the story of Charname that started with BG1.

As I said, the knowledge of what will be only adds to the experience in my case. As I don't see that as something that MUST limit the gaming into a linear and predictable event, unless the developer team is a bunch of uncreative amateurs. It's like finally being told the answers and history of a story and a question that've been keeping people wondering for so long.

The fact that the development team is making a prequel shows that they are uncreative. In Baldur's Gate you had a choice and reason for killing *SPOILER*vok whether you were good or evil, either way was justified.

A prophecy doesn't mean it MUST HAPPEN but the fact that charname, Sarevok, *SPOILER* Imoen and other Bhaalspawn (especially if they are members of 'The Five') escape is something that must happen.

Orlando only predicted Bhaal creating a score of mortal children, being killed and those children causing chaos. Two definate events - having children and being killed - however creating chaos depends on what you view chaos to be.

Since we know nothing of any mentionable assistance that Gorion recieved apart from his Harper friends it can be assumed that the BG3 PC will have to be a Harper or he wasn't at the rescue. The development team is going to have to be VERY creative and look at events WAY before the temple rescue of charname if they want to make this an RPG for characters of any gender, race, class or alignment.

Besides, we don't really wonder much more about charname. We know everything of any interest about him. Why can't they just let the Bhaalspawn saga alone? I think it was pretty damn conclusive.

I'm actually very interested. It would definitely shed a new light on BG1 and 2, should they succeed in making BG3 good enough.

It's not that hard to make a plot that "forces" you to do something crucial for the saving of Charname even against your will. Basically, PC could be unaware of the whole thing, going after their own agenda. Just that Charname's birth and being saved by the hands of Gorion has to be in there.

And as has been discussed here already, there is no reason why the PC should be in league with Gorion. He might as well be against him, or with him not as a harper, but as a necessary evil in a temporary alliance to achieve something both desire. If PC was just just one of gorion's friends, then mentioning them would be useless in BG1 & 2 since after the assumed events of BG3 Gorion was the only person whose name really needed to be known and remembered. Same case with evil characters.

BG1 & 2 really make no mention of much anything aside from Gorion himself. Which is only because Gorion is the closest thing to real father either Charname or Imoen could've had. There is no mention of anything else, though surely there was much else involved than just one Gorion and his vague harper friends.

Still, in the end I say the same I did before. Wether you think the Bhaalspawn saga conclusive or not, there's still the matter of making a part 3 to an obviously existing storyline. If they made another game, fine, they could make it whatever they wished. But the fact that they make BG3 means they are going to continue the story of BG1 & 2, wether you like it or not. Avoiding that is no longer a possibility. Should they make a story that has nothing to do with Charname at all, then all it will be is a very cheap marketing trick.

In any case, what we have here once again is a difference in opinion. No use to take 2 pages debating over something we won't agree of anyway. If the dev's screw it up, it's their business. But simply making a prequel, with a story that evolves around the beginning stages of the coming "Bhaalspawn era", does not seem a bad idea to me.

Obviously the game would struggle to be about <charname> directly, as playing as a kid would be boring. But thats not to say it won't have some sort of link to the future stories of <charname>, Imoen, Gorion blah blah blah. Maybe have the chance to have Gorion in your party (poor geza didn't have a chance in the first, and those dreams just got on my nerves big time), and mybe Elminster or Volo. Maybe your charter could be of noble origin but banished from the sword cost after being framed for treason or somthing, only to stumble upon clues leading to a conspiracy leading straight back to the events at Baldur's Gate and thus the story from BG1. But either way they do it, it will suck. :bang:

I'm still very wary as to if this will be a challenging title for BG2 (as in my opinion there is little out there that has a better story line to it). If Bioware think that making it 3D and adding +1 to the title will get it off the shelves they've got anbother thing coming, been there, done that, brought and wasted money on NWN already, LMAO at that. :lol:

Foradasthar, it probably WILL be a cheap marketing trick.

And besides, IMO, even if they do make BG3 about Charname, and just forcibly insert the saving of Charname by Gorion (which, according to you, HAS to be in there), I'd still call it a marketing trick. A bit more elaborate perhaps, since instead of being limited to the title it will encompass a completely irrelevant event in the game that only exists there because there must be a tie-in to the other games.

Frankly, I just hope they make a good game. Making it "spiritually" (so to speak) realted to the BG games could probably help. However, if it has to be linked story-wise by any means necessary, I don't see this as a good thing. Let a good writer decide whether to link or not - but let him pick whichever decision makes the game better. And if it ends up being a marketing trick with a good game underneath, I'll gladly play it.

Remember, the BIS game had absolutely nothing to do with the previous BG games either. It could have been good nevertheless. We'll never know.

i think the best thing to do is,not to make any BG3.They should just make a new game with a new title.If they make a BG3,they will think they should put somethings from BG1 and 2.This will complicate things and they won't be able to build a good storyline.BG2 and BG1 are legends because they have excellent plots.I think the producers just have to concentrate on a new game with a detailed storyline and intresting NPCs and PCs.I think the producers are just takeing the shortcut by makeing a sequel to an already classic RPG game
PS:If there will be a BG3,it should have an isometric play view!That is the soul of BG

@shadowdrinker:
Yeah, i agree totally with ur "no BG3" statement. The loose ends were tied up comphrensively in ToB, but... can you see ANY company turning down that sales boost? Its like The Bourne Supremacy.... they killed too many characters in the movie version to make the Bourne Ultimatum now.

Jeez, guys this topic is for your imagination, nothing else.

Assuming that we're dealing with a prequel, locating it within the Time Of Troubles and dealing with the origins of the BG1/2 PC doesn't have to be the sole focus of the game. It could very easily be a side quest with a joinable NPC (Gorion) triggering it, although I would argue that if it was done like the Copper Coronet/Slavers/Guarded Compound/Twisted Rune quest thread and developed throughout the game, culminating in the attack on the Banite temple. That would allow the game to retain a lot of flexibility while still making reference to the original BG series. To remove the annoying loss of a developed NPC, maybe Gorion could work like Drizzt in the battle with Bodhi in BG2 - a non-controllable ally. Of course, since you needn't do that quest, it doesn't take centre stage.

Personally, I'd much prefer something from the Time of Troubles - you have fear and panic all over the place, gods walking the land in mortal form, magic not working properly. The time just screams for an adventure, because that's exactly when the greatest of heroes emerge. You could build around the legends of the Time of Troubles (Mystra, Kelemvor, Cyric, etc) and either try to restore the balance or use the chaos to carve out your own dominion. It's got potential, I just don't think it needs to adhere to the storyline of BG1 and BG2 so slavishly.

Of course, that requires a little something else called originality from the game designers. I don't want to see the excellent legacy of Baldur's Gate prostituted for the sake of money - I want another game of similar quality. That means a lot of effort, a lot of planning, and a solid plot.

Well spoken NonSequitur. I particularly second your thoughts concerning the Time of Troubles - if the game is set in that time period, incorporating references (subtle and not so subtle) to the BG series goes much smoother, since the events in BG are a direct consequence of the Time of Troubles. Now, let's hope the designers read your post. And that, however they decide to do it, they give us a solid, good game.

I never actually thought about the past unitl BG3 was heard of. I guess it would eb a good change to have a new, exciting adventure, away from teh other BG games.

OFF TOPIC: Have you ever wondered how they originally thought up the BG saga. I think they might have played a game of D&D, then touched it up at the end, making it into a game! Any answers or ideas?

What if you got to play as Bhaal himself, or one of this followers, and the "bad guy" in the plot was Cyric...that would be interesting, but predictable, since we all know Cyric kills Bhaal in the end. :rolling:

Playing as Bhaal!? And what would your objective be, to mate with as many different humanoid species as possible? (ahhh, time for the fire giant quest...)

Playing as Bhaal!? And what would your objective be, to mate with as many different humanoid species as possible? (ahhh, time for the fire giant quest...) Forget that - imagine how difficult siring Abazigal could be! Somehow I don't think the Slayer has candles and mood music in mind.

Abazigal was the dragon, correct? I think it would be easier to do that as Dragons can assume human form (and probably be hotties ;) ) while fire giants and the like cannot :p

But that would only be towards the end of the game. Remember the little band of Bhaalspawn outside the fire giant cave? My guess is you start at level one wooing the chinchilla, and then move on to the goblin once you've gained more experience (and perhaps some +1 massage oil...)

/me derails own train of thought

Okay, it's official. This must be made into a mod! :D Someone go to PPG, or G3 and get them working on this right now!

What if the game is about a war between various gods? (the character from BG2 included)

Basically, if you wanted, you could import a major villain then :o


quote: Playing as Bhaal!? And what would your objective be, to mate with as many different humanoid species as possible? (ahhh, time for the fire giant quest...)


it could be a spinoff of Leisure Suit Larry :D

How about a very non-linear story involving, say: "Gorion's father" perhaps...He could be the typical all-powerful evil sorcerer, battling Elminster. You could fight in league with Elminster against Gorion's sinister father... I dunno, thats just the first thing that came to mind! And then maybe, to turn the tables against you; perhaps towards the end of the game(chapter 7 or 8...or whateer...)you could meet up with old Demogorgan in his rampaging times before helm was "forced to deal with him". Just think of it: an ultra-battle pitting you and elminster against the unstopable fiend(A Demorgorgan even tougher than the imprisoned version which you fight in Throne of Bhaal!) Now wouldn't that be sumthin just dandy dang badass :cool: !

[ October 09, 2004, 22:29: Message edited by: Kovalis Darkfire ]

@Enagonios

actually Bhaal, Myrkul, and Bane were humans who killed one god and absorbed its powers and then went on to hunt down Jergal the former god of murder etc. hence the suggestion of expansion pack 'Throne of Jergal' this story is explained in greater detail in a book found in the south part of beregost, near feldpost's, where you get some mage some other book about 'faithful coin *blah* *blah*' in BG1

Yup, I agree. The Infinity Engine worked fine so far...

I think the best idea is a prequel, but I think it should go back further than just to the early Bhaalspawn. I think you should play characters durring the Time of Troubles, meet and possibly get CHARNAME's mother, try to save her and fail (you'd have to fail), maybe journey with a young Gorion and/or Elminster. I don't know what the main plot should be, but it should deffinately be a lvl 1-20 game. Maybe you could even be the group that kills Bhaal, I don't know if that has already ben described in Baldur's Gate or anything.

OK, I've got it. You start out in a school, maybe dependant on pc class, maybe not, but you're just a regular student in the Times of Trouble. Bhaal, or more likely his hencmen, attacks the school (maybe you went to school with CHARNAME's mother!) and the masters defend. Seing the inevitability of defeat, however, they evacuate the students. You, and many other refugees from similar attacks, end up in a nearby town. This provides a horde of quests from find a seperated loved one (or 'discover' his/her body) to retrieve a powerful artifact from the hands of Bhaal's minions (or some other deity in the viscinity, maybe a good one). Eventually, however, (maybe lvl 5 of 20) this town is also attacked and you have to move on. The final goal of the game depends on your choices throughout. Are you driven by vengance (kill Bhaal), justice (stop Bhaal and other evil deities in the area), peace (get all the deities out of the Prime plane by whatever means), or something else (be creative). Whatever you choose, you must find powerful friends and allies, recover/forge powerful arms, armor, spells, etc., raise and army, and build a stronghold against your enemies. Later quests may include putting down revolts, raising support, aiding allies, or raiding enemies. Will you ally yourself with other deities or do you seek to kill them all? Also, the stronghold should start out the same (at least for each class), but quickly be custamizable by the player through a series of choices based on the pc's class(es). In the end, however, the evil necromancer's tower should look and act nothing like the high mage's shining citadel, nor should the armies.

Comments are welcome, and if any of you are secretly scouting for the developing company to get ideas of what players want, HIRE ME!!! I have all the experience in fantasy reams of every kind you could ever want, an imagination to match, and enough math, science, and logic skills to make my own P&P system, which I'm actually doing(albeit slowly).

[ July 26, 2005, 01:57: Message edited by: CLSVABCH ]

New idea:

You play as a another Bhaalspawn (default: Sarevok), building your empire to the point where you can become the next Lord of Murder (or whatever other kind of god you wish). It wouldn't have to be a strategy game (as the word empire seems to suggest) because you could do things like the stronghold quests in BG2. You could travel the Sword Coast, recruiting allies and destroying your enemies. The game could even end with an appearance by one of the Five, who has come to kill you and take over your empire. The game fades out as your character and your enemy charge at each other, and who is the victor is not known. (Maybe you replace them as one of the Five!)

It would have three seperate paths through the game, with different goals for each. You could build a generous empire of protectors (or whatever), or a neutral empire of merchants (or whatever), or an evil empire of killers (or whatever). Just about the only complaint I have about the BG series so far is the lack of alternative paths for you to take.

And who says it has to have anything to do with CHARNAME? His story is pretty much wrapped up; I say we let him rest. The Final Fantasy series has survived so long because they didn't try to keep leeching off of the last game. They make a NEW story each time, so every game is judged on its own virtues, and thus has to have them to survive. Sure it should have something to do with the Bhaalspawn saga, but it doesn't need to cling to CHARNAME to be good, or even to be part of the BG series.

Hmm...I've always assumed BG3 would about you playing as an adventurer beside Gorion when he was still weak, pitiful and level one. You journey through the game seeing stuff like a young boy with a hamster get hit on the head with a rock and so on. Maybe encounter some of the NPCs in BG1 or 2 and have them join (20 year old Keldorn!). The story would end with you busting the Bhaal thing, rescuing Charname, and settling him in Candlekeep.

Or something.

Thats how I would like to see it go, but then, when has anything you wanted in a game come true...?

Personally, I'd agree that trying to stick too much to the already-done Bhaalspawn storyline is generally a bad idea. Touch on it, have it even influence BG3's story, but don't tie them too closely or blatantly.

I'd love to see a quick cameo from, say, a single-minded Mercykiller on the trial of a fugitive of *justice*. Would be much cooler than some crappy Minsc-relative.

How about this for a story...

1) You are the child of the Charname from BG1 & 2 and this is your life.

2) You are one of the many children that were encounter during BG1 or BG2.

Either one of these could definitely be used to make BG3.

Righty-o then! I'm a new... person, so let's just get that out of the way. I would also like to point out that aside from one (!) post, no-one has acknowledged that maybe, some did not want to be gods. I stand among them. Also, earlier on, someone mentioned Cernd's child. That is impossible. Cernd's only child was a son, and they killed each other in magic combat.
Anyway, not meaning to be a wet blanket, but, yeah.

Don't worry, I also don't want to play a god, or an ex-god, or the child of a god, although that servant of a god idea is a possibility. I still think it would be fun to play durring the Times of Trouble, am I alone?

No, no. What I meant is if someone picked the non-god ending, then that person would continue to BG3 and say WTF?

@Aydin:
You mean like if in BGI someone killed all the NPCs except for the five evil ones in their party, then continued to BGII and had to start with Imoen, Jaheira, and Minsc? :lol: As if Bioware gives a flying f***. :rolleyes:

That's why I say it has to be a different story. Unrelated is the way to go. The series is called Baldur's Gate, not Bhaalspawn. Same general area, different times, and different characters dammit!!! :mad:

Yet another newbie on the scene. The series follows the story of a specific character on Faerunand his/her companions, if you changed the characters then effectively the Baldurs Gate series has stopped, its not Baldurs Gate anymore.
Has anyone thought of the possibility of a sort of Time of Troubles rip off? What about the concept of Cyric going mad as a result of being the god of destruction, death and all that and some how being responsible in some way, shape or form for the Gods decending to Faerun again so he can take full control.
Assuming the protagonist in BG1/2 became a god at the end of Throne of Bhaal he would also be thrown back into the world where he would meet around 1 or 2 of the old party members (other old faces could re-appear but they cant join your party). This would allow the space for new NPC's to join you whilst keeping a solid link to the previous Baldurs Gate games.
The protagonist would then have to go travelling accross Faerun retrieving the portfolios of the remaining gods in order to become powerful enough to destroy Cyric. This is just a general idea and i'm sure Bioware could twist it and make a great story out of it if it was used. Obviously this is would only truly apply if your character was evil.
I'm not sure how a good character would fit into the Cyric driving the gods to Faerun backdrop and still follow that story as you wouldn't have become a god in Throne of Bhaal if your protagonist was a good guy.

Actually, there are god endings for a good character in BG2, but I don't think the tale has to focus on <charname> at all. Of all the book/movie series out there, how many of them only follow one person? Baldur's Gate has kind of moved away from Baldur's Gate and followed the children of Bhaal, but no one said it had to be this way, and no one said it had to be <charname>. I still think my Time of Troubles idea is good.

Playing as a god would be cool.

Fighting against demi-gods(replacing the goblins and other weak creatures) and other gods.

Imho, you were already a demi-god at the time you ended ToB. I think BG2 went a wee too far.
The time of troubles idea sounded tempting to me :)

Here are my thoughts on BG3.

If it is a sequel; through the travels in BG series you encounter numerous young individuals who want to be just like you, an adventurer. What would make sense is using any of them as the new main character for B3 or even your child you had with Aerie. Either way it gives the developer options for a sequel.

If BG3 is a prequel they have a lot of things they could do. First off they could make us actually be Baldurian, this would definitely explain the BG3 title. Or they could use any story line contain Gorion and the group he worked with or even use your mother as the main character, etc... There are so many options out there it is not even funny.

One thing that I think is very important is trying to stick to the roots of the BG series.

1) Great story line
2) Great engine
3) Expansion that added to the story line
4) Variety of premade magical weapons
5) The ability for mods

Even if they incorporate 3.5 rules they need to keep in mind that many of us like the way 2e rules work. If they play by 3.5 rules they might have to tone or modify some of the rules to incorpate some of the things many of us enjoyed.

or even your child you had with Aerie. This could only be doable if Aerie was the canon romance.

(Tal gotta incorporate a Bewitched notifier on the boards, so I could just say "Fel", and Felinoid would teleport in.)

@olimikrig:
BOO!!! :lol:

I heard (in this forum, no less) that it's definitely going to be a prequel, so any sequel musings regarding canon romances into BG3 are moot. Besides, think how many people it would p*ss off when they picked the "wrong one", no matter who they chose.

The wrong party members can be forgiven, but marriage to the wrong person would be unforgivable. Not to mention it'd put a definite answer to whether <CHARNAME> is male or female, and no successful company is that stupid.

Yay :thumb:

When talking canon, none do the preaching better than you :pope: , you got an almost creepy ability to see through what' ere argument, and spell out the obvious (and when coming to explaining anything 'canon' you do the job much better than I ;) )

P.s. Maybe you got an innate Bewitched notifier, and simply sence when people need your skills and BG knowledge :rolleyes:

Felinoid it still could be a sequel given that the PC could of influenced numerous young fool hardy kids who want to go out and adventure. So that could lead us into a sequel. As for the child thing yes it would actually upset those of use who ended up romancing x,y or z. But didn't they also assume the party you adventured with in BG1 at the beginning of SoA? Why couldn't they do the same for BG3.

If BG3 is a prequel they should go with the Baldurain story line. That would be the easiest one to pull off and you could end up with him as your partner of sorts, like Imoen, but unlike Imoen you can't remove him from your party.

@Abdel (Silver Knight?):
I didn't say they couldn't, I said they weren't going to. From what I've heard, they've already started work on BG3 (using 3e rules :( ) and it's going to be a prequel.

I like the Balduran idea, though. :thumb: He shows up so much in the first two games, and would probably make a great NPC tank. You could be the unmentioned companion of Balduran who helps him achieve fame and glory (not to mention all those cool magical items). It'd still be just barely clinging to the BG series storyline, but would be different enough that you could have all-new NPCs and areas.

Felinoid

New areas would be cool. I would like a ship since Baldurian was a priate. That would definitely make the game funner. And to end the game you should end up at Werewolf island and that is it. Since that would go off the BG1 game about how Baldurian and his crew died.

I don't think it should go that far. Games with predetermined bad endings don't ever get very good reviews, and it's kind of a downer to realize that everything you've done is for naught. I figure it should end once you've gotten Balduran to "really big hero" status. After that it's his own damn fault if he screws it up.

After that it's his own damn fault if he screws it up. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Balduran idea is actually quite good. It would also somewhat justify calling the game Baldur's Gate III, instead of just making it a new game like NwN...

I heard NWN was BG3 at one point in time. As for BG3, does any one have any updates from other websites other than here?

If there was any news, it'd be posted here. That's why we have the news on the front page. There's been nothing since we reported on it last.