Have you ever thought of the demon race being implemented into Baldur's Gate 3? Now that's one race that should definitely have an alignment restriction to evil. Didn't they have demons in some of the really old text based games in the 80's or whatever... I just think it would be cool as an option; or perhaps to have a demon NPC that you meet at some point in the game. Such An NPC could be bound to you something like Sarevok in Throne of Bhaal maybe. That would be one good way to spice up Baldur's Gate III if you ask me! :) What do you all think?

A personal slave demon would be awsome!

Yes, indeed. Someone should notify the producers...lol!

But there's different "species" in demonkind and they dont like each other awfully much. Still.. it WOULD be really cool..

or perhaps to have a demon NPC that you meet at some point in the game. Such An NPC could be bound to you something like Sarevok in Throne of Bhaal maybe. This would actually be pretty cool i think. Like A sidequest through which you would learn the demon's true name (effectively binding him to you). Maybe a Succubus.. or even cooler (imo) a Gorgon like Medusa. (Note: Medusa is the Gorgon's name, NOT the species as that oaf that wrote the horrible Lady of Poison erroneously mentioned :p )

Tieflings are a half demon race.

I thought Tieflings were descendants of some evil thing, rather than half demon?

Tieflings have demon blood, normally because of a mating between a demon and a human(oid) normally only one generation before, i.e annah in PST. So if a tiefling mated with a normal human then any offspring would only be quarter demons and so on.

@Lazy Bonzo: Not to be picky, but Tieflings have demon blood from many generations ago. Those from only one generation back are the half-fiends.

I'm inclined to agree with Ziad's assessment :)

Half-breeds are still called Tieflings. Quarter-breeds, octi-breeds and so forth are also Tieflings. The further you go the less dominant the traits are yet they would enable sorcerers and mind-mages for races that wouldn't normally be capable of those abilities (i.e. humans).

Wasn't Haer"DAelis half of something in BGII. On the demon race thing, I think it would be pretty cool to have a sub-quest involving a demon. Bound to you or not. Having one as an actual character race-
1> would have to be evil
2> problem is, demons only reason on the prime plane is to kill, destroy, maim, and chaos.
3> if you were to play to what a true demon does, you'd just wanna kill everything you saw.
--Don't get me wrong though, I still think it would be killer if they could work it out

A demon's first goal is the goal of its summoner if the demon is properly bound. After that it seeks to kill and maim whatever it can find. However either would be pointless since you would start at such a high level, have no need for equipment and couldn't really advance at all.

Demons don't make good PCs.

Great points Abomination, your level on the Mage would have to be insane to control a demon. I did not even think about that.

I'd have to agree with Abomination and Tiberius. Not to sound close-minded or anything, but I say stick to the basics. Don't go creating the uper stuff until your done with the simple stuff. Lets see horses for example. Or class/race specific dialogues, quests and lots of them. Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be awesome to see a demon class, but make sure you've got everything else there first.

your level on the Mage would have to be insane to control a demon Not necessarily I think. As long as you cast the summoning and binding correctly and have all the right spellstuff it should be okay. Chance of being betrayed notwithstanding of course (Shadow's Witness -> The Righteous Man). Ah, and you should also hope that the dmon doesn't have an antimagic stone or whatever (Errtu).

I think there should be the proper summoning circle in the game to control a demon and that you need a brazier to summon it etc. Those components would be way more fun than just summoning a Balor whenever you want.

Anyone can summon a demon if they know the demon's name and the incantation. It is controling creatures from other planes such as the astral plane and limbo that requires mental concentration.

What I mean is you should be able to make a summoning circle and be able to order them to do things.

@Abomination: Summon? Yes. Stop from ripping one's head off? No.

Kinda like the Gate spell in BG II - protect yourself, cast and get the hell out of there :)

By the way, a demon NPC has been present in one of the RPGs I respect the most, but it would be quite cheap for her to make a cameo in BG III. Although I guess Planescape: Torment takes place before BG II (as you could buy some of the equipment), it's going to be like "Batman meets Spiderman", which IMO is kinda cheap.
A possible demon NPC might be one with a very strong desire to kill, maim and to all the other nice things to a specific person. I'm not sure in my mythology, but the Erynnies (hope that's how they are spelled) were like that in Greek legends, so I guess it won't be out of character for one to aid you in killing a high-level mage that's been messing in the Blood war, for example. Then it/she disappears with something like "So long, mortal. Hope we never meet again." The only problem for all the demon-lovers here is that I think the erynnies were actually aligned with the Baatezu (devils) and not the Tanar'ri (demons) - but let's not be so picky, ok?
Aside from that, there are always the imp familiars, if you can't walk around without a little (but big-mouthed) servant from the Abyss :)

@Abomination: Summon? Yes. Stop from ripping one's head off? No.Stop from ripping one's head off? Yes. You don't have to be a mage to stop that either. As long as the summoning circle has no flaws then the creature will be bound and will not be able to harm its summoner.

Yeah, but doesn't finding the name, creating the binding circle and getting the summoning incantation right mean that you are a more-than-decent mage?

Yeah, thats what I meant. Sorry for not being more clear. I mean, my level 2 fighter MIGHT take down a level 50 Tanarri IF they both had really weird rolls, but...

Yeah, but doesn't finding the name, creating the binding circle and getting the summoning incantation right mean that you are a more-than-decent mage? Not necessarily imo but probably. A thief or a warrior could do the summoning after "acquiring" all the aforementioned info and materials.

That would be awesome. Summoning an imp or other such things and torturing, blackmailing(for another true name for example),
summoning two and making them fight each other and rewarding winner with anything you got
and I mean anything (everything), gold, jewels, flesh, releasing them, humans, _anything_, setting them loose in the city...
Oh... my... god... That would be fantastic.

calm Wiz, calm

Leave him to his insanity. Me too.
/chuckles insanely

Maybe this isnt not such a good idea, sanity is running thin nowa-days... mwahahaHAHAAAGGGHHhhhhh...

If you could get a demon as an NPC, how would you get around it being uber level and uncontrolable and just killing everything (including your PC) in sight? Travel to another dimension in a major sub quest to take control of a spawn of a demon? Maybe do a deal with pure evil in the realms of the living to be given the power of a demon ally...?

i think the "subquest: find all the crap to summon a demon and be able to summon and bind him for a command" could be worked out much better.

Why does everyone seem to think that all a demon would be interested in killing everything in sight? yes they are evil and bloodthirsty, but most of them are intelligent. And, if they're intelligent, they can decide if it's in their best interests to go on a rampage or not. I could easily imagine a situation where a demon would supress his desire for bloodshed in order to carry out some mission or something. Besides, this is a crpg. He'll get to kill almost everthing you meet anyway.

A demon race is probaly one of the best ideas i heard for a long time though unless you start the game on a high level of xp it would be worthless wouldn't it?

Much better simply to have him bound to a gem on black sword. May as well call him Noidacra.

Seriously, though, summoning a demon is an interesting idea, if it's done in an interesting, intelligent way. The further away from pure hack and slash the game is, the more interesting it'll be, IMO.

edit: how many times can you inadvertently fit the word 'interesting' into a sentence?

[ October 24, 2004, 00:18: Message edited by: Midwinter ]

I think some of you might not be getting what, exactly, I started this post about. I was referring to MEETING, a demon and having him bound to your control "something like Sarevok in TOB" as I said, as opposed to simply summoning one.

Kind of like the Valen mod in Baldur's Gate II - you get a (fairly) loyal retainer who has a penchant for violence and an appetite for destruction and blood. Still, she'll do what you tell her... most of the time... and if she can get ahead, she will.

@Kovalis Darkfire

I had similar thoughts (see my last post). It would probably be workable to have it as a sidequest. Maybe a la Kangaxx the Lich, but instead of vanquishing him, bringing all the required items (incantation, brazier, demon's name, etc.) together would result in a binding with a clause that you could command him to do one thing and then he'd return to whichever hell he came from.

Actually similar to the demon in IWD HOW, where if you use that one planar divination spell (Can't remember the name), you can learn his true name and force him to be bound in a suit of armor that you can safely wear. That was cool armor.

Yeah, that was actually what was in my head too hehe :D

@Enagonios

Hey ya man, i think a side quest in which you meet the beast would work great. Perhaps you could do a quest for a powerful sorcerer and then the sorcerer could bind the demon to your will, or some such thing...

I think the demon-summoning thing would work well within a different major plot. For example, you need to summon a demon to either find a way to weaken something powerful or get information, or to fight an enemy too potent for the group to combat. Obviously your motivation would change based on alignment; a good character would most likely want to banish the critter as soon as possible, whereas an evil character would see the benefit of having a pet tanar'ri or baatezu. Just so long as it wasn't munchkin-ism, I think it'd be a nice touch.

If demons breed, do they lay eggs? You could gut a pregnant one after killing it and take its baby or egg. Then raise and train it to do what you wish. It could work like a stronghold thing. Every so often you would have to do quests in order to keep it alive, fed, trained or bound to you. The whole time it could be growing and getting stronger. Just like your pc going up in xp. There could be some real cool sidequests like going to other planes to find it food or capturing female demons and milking them or whatever. I don't know what demons eat but I'm sure whatever it is, that could make interesting side quests.

Heh, deathbringer, and here I was thinking that the guys who wrote the script for Planescape: Torment needn't worry about their jobs... Somehow, I suppose at least some might be created in something like breeding pods (remember the LotR movie?) although I suppose different ones have different methods. Judging by the fact that there are a few tieflings and cambions here and there quite a few must reproduce in a way reasonably close to the mammal one.
Another possible idea for how a demon might join your party is as a result of a kind of a quest - for example, if you do not do something it will kill you or a certain NPC, and if you do, it will have to obey you for a certain time period. A bet, for example.

An NPC succubus like Fall-From-Grace on PS:T would be cool. Or an Aasimar or Tiefling. Something with wings, anyway :)

If they are allowing subraces such as asamir and teifling then they better have an extensive list to choose from... And other logical choices other than demons becuase everybody will be playing one... which is corny consitering they are EXTREMLY rare in faerun and would usually be stoned to death on sight...

Nah, they'd have to wait their turn after the mobs finished burning the half-drows to an even darker, crispier hue...
BTW, that might be an interesting race, if they allow it. Then again, why would they... normal drow usually do well enough in the eye-candy department.

[ October 21, 2005, 22:06: Message edited by: The Shaman ]

I could imagine that a mage (maybe a certain kind of specialist) could learn to turn himself into a demon for a short time, or slowly turn into a lower demon while leveling up.

...like the palemaster class, for example.

when leveling, a interesting thing would be to add demon monster class - or devil monster class.

but with restrictions, of course. an 3th fighter/2nd balor would be unreal ;)

-Anyone can summon a demon?
Yes.In fantasy novels like Drizzt Do'Urden series.
No.In Ad&d settings.You should be exceptional at arcane or divine arts(which requieres you to be some kind of magiccaster)or you should have highly exceptional magical items.(Drawing a protection circle or knowing the demons real name ONLY helps)

-A demon race playable or a demonkin bound to you?
Don't think so..Since people of forgotten realms doesn't tolerate demons(reasonable thing)Think travelling in Baldur's Gate(the city i mean) as a/with a balor.Probably all the powerful npc will try to banish or capture you.
Maybe playing as a lower demon or having one bound could be possible but still hard i guess...

in the AD+D book Tieflings and Aasimar (something to that effect), it claims Cambions are the name for something that is half-demon while Nephilim is something that is half-celestial. Tiefling is anything that has demonic blood without a demonic parent, while Aasimar is anything that has celestial blood without a pure celestial parent.

Nephilim and Cambion get much better abilities and a much nastier level adjustment then simple Tieflings or Aasimar.

I like the idea of having a demon race. I made a similar comment in another thread that I'd love to upgrade lots of things in BG 3 -- including races and classes. In BG 2 I will frequently play as a monster or other creature, (by changing the image) just because I like playing as those types of characters.

So there you are with your pet demon/devil etc. Now we go to a shop and drat, everone is gone. Moments later the town wizards come and they do not ask questions. Or, drat the demon does not fit through the door. The lesser more, I will say it since most of us like me are male, human female centerfolds looking ones will work nice. But it is all in gameplay, questing, and dialogue where the strengt lies.

A strong pet devil/demon, no, a quest wherein you get saddled up whit one, yes. Make ik comical, not just plain evil.

After much thought how about this: one bound by a god to wander for a fixed time to be a pacifist. not able to harm a fly. The frustration it will vent.

A female Cambion would work (if you can get past the +4 level adjust) as female Cambions have much in common with Succubi or the Erinyes appearance wise (Male Cambions much more ferocious and imposing). A cambion is also far more likely then a pure blooded Baazteu or Tanar'ri to take player classes instead of NPC classes. With a +4 to STR, +4 to DEX, +2 to CON, +4 to INT and +2 to CHA, there really isn't any class they couldn't do well and because they get such extensive stat adjusts and the bonus 2d8 they get at level one, a Cambion Wizard/Barbarian (or fighter if she's a Baazteu) can really take care of itself in any situation.

It might not be of a demon's best interest to mess in a big city. It could draw the attention of powerful, heavenly beings from the upper planes. Demons DON'T want to mess with them.