chevalier
Thu, 23rd Mar '06, 12:23am
Here are today's Neverwinter Nights 2 forum highlights, collected by NWVault (http://nwvault.ign.com). Please take into account that these are only single parts of various threads and should not be taken out of context. Bear in mind also that the posts presented here are copied as-is, and that any bad spelling and grammar does not get corrected on our end.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Adam Brennecke, Programmer</font>
short NWN2 preview at GamesRadar (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=474542&post=4042870&forum=95&highlight=)
Those screenshots date back to August 05 from an early art pass of some areas...
More: In those pictures the terrain is not normal mapped. That doesn't mean we don't support normal mapped terrain, because we do.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Brian D. Lawson, Programmer</font>
short NWN2 preview at GamesRadar (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=474542&post=4042925&forum=95&highlight=)
<hr />I wish they would leak some current screen shots! http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif<hr />Believe me...so do we! http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif
More: <hr />
Bump-mapped actually. They aren't using normal maps on buildings due to performance reasons, AFAIK.<hr />Actually, they're normal mapped. Just about everything in the game is normal mapped...in fact 100% of everything in the game is normal mapped.
However, you will have the option of running with the terrain normal maps turned on or off.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">J.E. Sawyer, NWN2 Senior Designer</font>
Horses (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=472603&post=4026463&forum=95&highlight=)
<hr />The topic wasn't really about my or someone else's opinion over horses, it was about trying to get a more straightforward answer from Obsidian about horses.<hr />Rideable horses will not be in NWN2. I'm sorry it's taken so long for you to get that answer, but there it is.
A lot of components of horses are in the game right now, but bits and pieces don't make a working whole -- especially when that working whole is a vast sprawl of interconnected subsystems.
Given their partial implementation, the large amount of work remaining for them, and their low integration into the official campaign, we decided to cut them. My apologies to those who may have been depending on mounts for their NWN2 module ideas and for players looking forward to using mounts in the OC and enduser campaigns.
More: <hr />Just to be sure, you let the horses as creatures in the toolset ? I know we can't ride them but if we can at least watch them running free in the wild, we'll have hope.<hr />They are currently in the toolset. I do not know our plans for their inclusion at release.
<hr />1) Will the materials that you completed be left in the game so that we can use what you have finished?
2) If #1 is possible, could you speak to what things those might be? For instance, if we have the animations and a few other things, it will not be entirely impossible for the community to supply some scripting which, while not professional, may be satisfactory for individual projects.
3) I know this may be looking ahead, but if Obsidian does an expansion for NWN2, would rideable horses possibly be something you might reconsider for said expansion?<hr />1) Don't know, but possible.
2) At best, incomplete animation sets, sketchy mechanics, horse models, some horse accessories -- things like that.
3) It is a mystery.
More: <hr />... so, what have you been doing except for changing (some) rules for 3.5?
another disapointment.<hr />We're all disappointed. At Black Isle, when we first started work on The Black Hound, I said, "Let's talk about jumping, flying, swimming, climbing and riding horses." They are the things never done in D&D CRPGs that add a lot of interesting dimensions (literally and figuratively) in the pen and paper game.
As for what we have been doing, implementing mounts was one of those things. Our technical design for mounts was just not realistic given all of the other changes in the engine. Switching from Aurora to Electron was a massive undertaking. Underlying game logic in the engine that tied into the renderer simply broke when we made that switch. Everything from the GUI to the animation system to pathfinding to the hit particles that play on a successful attack had to be refactored.
That said, the toolset was entirely revised as well. The new functionality there is definitely a big jump forward.
Issue... (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=471617&post=4026468&forum=98&highlight=)
3E and 3.5 use class-based systems that allow the different classes to shine in specific contexts. Whatever active balancing we could do (which we are not) would probably wind up being secondary to the circumstances of the adventure environments. All D&D characters have certain talents in combat, but I think of a fighter, mage, and thief as a screwdriver, hammer, and wrench instead of three variations of tanks.
Is This The Witch King? (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=473436&post=4033068&forum=95&highlight=)
According to at least one FR source, "warlock" is a corruption of the word "Larloch".
Also, Larloch rules. Anyone who can make the Thayvian Zulkir of Necromancy scared for his life is cool.
Zhengyi the Witch-King of Vaasa is also pretty boss, but he's no Larloch. Liches are to Larloch like regular people are to liches. That should give some perspective on how jawesome Larloch is. It's a pity his mostly commonly used "named" spell is so minor. That cat was a Netherese arcanist. Time to bring back the level 11 spells, brah.
<hr />Nowhere in any computer rpg has the witch king ever been mentioned (including BG I and II and NWN and I *think* NWN 2. So for those who have not read the novels and who have only played D&D related rpgs on the computer, there should be no mention of a Witch King - at least, not Zhengyi.<hr />Actually I mentioned him in an item description somewhere in an Icewind Dale game. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_shades.gif
More: <hr />larloch aint no boss, iouluam is still around, and he is lvl 41.<hr />I strongly object to the degradation of Larloch's 3E stats and refuse to accept them!
More: <hr />And we are arguing about this, why?<hr />My Netherese arcanist can beat up your Netherese arcanist.
More: Please note the level (46) listed for Larloch in happier times. Like I said, he has been injured in the conversion to 3E!
So what Spells, Skills and Feats will be missing? (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=473659&post=4033080&forum=95&highlight=)
<hr />I still think that sucks that they removed feat, spells and skills just to update the rules.<hr />If we do remove feats, spells, or skills, it probably has more to do with them being terrible (possibly just terrible in a CRPG) than with us being unable to implement them.
We could try to cram every spell in the PHB and every supplement into NWN2, but I don't even think half of the spells in the PHB are that great outside of super-specialized circumstances.
More: <hr />Unfortunately, it would be very naive to believe that every server that goes up with NWN 2 will be this way.
More often than not, the multiplayer servers of NWN 2 will be mini MMORPGs, hence there WILL be a level of player/character hostility and PvP.
That in my mind is the reality and if I want to play on a NWN 2 server, that is something I have to deal with.
From a long term perspective, I would think that the Dev Team would look at multiplayer balance if for any other reason to lay a foundation of relative balance for Mod makers to build upon. Since there has been a dev post stating basically they are not looking at multiplayer balance, it will be up to each individual mod maker to reforge the wheel and make up what they believe is balance. The problem is that some of them will end up making a square or rectangle wheel that doesnt roll and players will end up investing time to learn that the wheel doesnt roll.<hr />People would re-forge the wheel whether we laid down a framework for it or not. Personally, I don't think that D&D is a particularly great rule system for PvP play mostly because so many character capabilities are dependent on environmental conditions and on equipment. I'm sure it can be made to support PvP more equitably, but that's clearly not the sort of gameplay that the 3E/3.5 designers set out to facilitate.
The game system in Guild Wars was designed to facilitate PvP and it does a very good job of it. But that was always a goal of the game's developers.
Question for h4rdc0r3 radial menu numpad players (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=474321&post=4040124&forum=95&highlight=)
Hi there. I know a lot of NWN players use the numeric keypad as an input method for the radial menu. Those that do, are you using a numpad detached from the keyboard so you can use your non-mouse hand, or do you take your hand off of your mouse to use the numpad? thx 2 u
More: Would you say that you use the radial menu almost entirely for spellcasting, then?
Adios Ferret! (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=474447&post=4041854&forum=95&highlight=)
Ferret did work at BIS on both Jefferson and Van Buren (The Black Hound and Fallout 3). On F3 he was designing the highly nutty (but cool) Brotherhood of Steel/Circle of Steel stuff. I'm now the acting lead designer on NWN2.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Adam Brennecke, Programmer</font>
short NWN2 preview at GamesRadar (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=474542&post=4042870&forum=95&highlight=)
Those screenshots date back to August 05 from an early art pass of some areas...
More: In those pictures the terrain is not normal mapped. That doesn't mean we don't support normal mapped terrain, because we do.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Brian D. Lawson, Programmer</font>
short NWN2 preview at GamesRadar (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=474542&post=4042925&forum=95&highlight=)
<hr />I wish they would leak some current screen shots! http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif<hr />Believe me...so do we! http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif
More: <hr />
Bump-mapped actually. They aren't using normal maps on buildings due to performance reasons, AFAIK.<hr />Actually, they're normal mapped. Just about everything in the game is normal mapped...in fact 100% of everything in the game is normal mapped.
However, you will have the option of running with the terrain normal maps turned on or off.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">J.E. Sawyer, NWN2 Senior Designer</font>
Horses (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=472603&post=4026463&forum=95&highlight=)
<hr />The topic wasn't really about my or someone else's opinion over horses, it was about trying to get a more straightforward answer from Obsidian about horses.<hr />Rideable horses will not be in NWN2. I'm sorry it's taken so long for you to get that answer, but there it is.
A lot of components of horses are in the game right now, but bits and pieces don't make a working whole -- especially when that working whole is a vast sprawl of interconnected subsystems.
Given their partial implementation, the large amount of work remaining for them, and their low integration into the official campaign, we decided to cut them. My apologies to those who may have been depending on mounts for their NWN2 module ideas and for players looking forward to using mounts in the OC and enduser campaigns.
More: <hr />Just to be sure, you let the horses as creatures in the toolset ? I know we can't ride them but if we can at least watch them running free in the wild, we'll have hope.<hr />They are currently in the toolset. I do not know our plans for their inclusion at release.
<hr />1) Will the materials that you completed be left in the game so that we can use what you have finished?
2) If #1 is possible, could you speak to what things those might be? For instance, if we have the animations and a few other things, it will not be entirely impossible for the community to supply some scripting which, while not professional, may be satisfactory for individual projects.
3) I know this may be looking ahead, but if Obsidian does an expansion for NWN2, would rideable horses possibly be something you might reconsider for said expansion?<hr />1) Don't know, but possible.
2) At best, incomplete animation sets, sketchy mechanics, horse models, some horse accessories -- things like that.
3) It is a mystery.
More: <hr />... so, what have you been doing except for changing (some) rules for 3.5?
another disapointment.<hr />We're all disappointed. At Black Isle, when we first started work on The Black Hound, I said, "Let's talk about jumping, flying, swimming, climbing and riding horses." They are the things never done in D&D CRPGs that add a lot of interesting dimensions (literally and figuratively) in the pen and paper game.
As for what we have been doing, implementing mounts was one of those things. Our technical design for mounts was just not realistic given all of the other changes in the engine. Switching from Aurora to Electron was a massive undertaking. Underlying game logic in the engine that tied into the renderer simply broke when we made that switch. Everything from the GUI to the animation system to pathfinding to the hit particles that play on a successful attack had to be refactored.
That said, the toolset was entirely revised as well. The new functionality there is definitely a big jump forward.
Issue... (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=471617&post=4026468&forum=98&highlight=)
3E and 3.5 use class-based systems that allow the different classes to shine in specific contexts. Whatever active balancing we could do (which we are not) would probably wind up being secondary to the circumstances of the adventure environments. All D&D characters have certain talents in combat, but I think of a fighter, mage, and thief as a screwdriver, hammer, and wrench instead of three variations of tanks.
Is This The Witch King? (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=473436&post=4033068&forum=95&highlight=)
According to at least one FR source, "warlock" is a corruption of the word "Larloch".
Also, Larloch rules. Anyone who can make the Thayvian Zulkir of Necromancy scared for his life is cool.
Zhengyi the Witch-King of Vaasa is also pretty boss, but he's no Larloch. Liches are to Larloch like regular people are to liches. That should give some perspective on how jawesome Larloch is. It's a pity his mostly commonly used "named" spell is so minor. That cat was a Netherese arcanist. Time to bring back the level 11 spells, brah.
<hr />Nowhere in any computer rpg has the witch king ever been mentioned (including BG I and II and NWN and I *think* NWN 2. So for those who have not read the novels and who have only played D&D related rpgs on the computer, there should be no mention of a Witch King - at least, not Zhengyi.<hr />Actually I mentioned him in an item description somewhere in an Icewind Dale game. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_shades.gif
More: <hr />larloch aint no boss, iouluam is still around, and he is lvl 41.<hr />I strongly object to the degradation of Larloch's 3E stats and refuse to accept them!
More: <hr />And we are arguing about this, why?<hr />My Netherese arcanist can beat up your Netherese arcanist.
More: Please note the level (46) listed for Larloch in happier times. Like I said, he has been injured in the conversion to 3E!
So what Spells, Skills and Feats will be missing? (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=473659&post=4033080&forum=95&highlight=)
<hr />I still think that sucks that they removed feat, spells and skills just to update the rules.<hr />If we do remove feats, spells, or skills, it probably has more to do with them being terrible (possibly just terrible in a CRPG) than with us being unable to implement them.
We could try to cram every spell in the PHB and every supplement into NWN2, but I don't even think half of the spells in the PHB are that great outside of super-specialized circumstances.
More: <hr />Unfortunately, it would be very naive to believe that every server that goes up with NWN 2 will be this way.
More often than not, the multiplayer servers of NWN 2 will be mini MMORPGs, hence there WILL be a level of player/character hostility and PvP.
That in my mind is the reality and if I want to play on a NWN 2 server, that is something I have to deal with.
From a long term perspective, I would think that the Dev Team would look at multiplayer balance if for any other reason to lay a foundation of relative balance for Mod makers to build upon. Since there has been a dev post stating basically they are not looking at multiplayer balance, it will be up to each individual mod maker to reforge the wheel and make up what they believe is balance. The problem is that some of them will end up making a square or rectangle wheel that doesnt roll and players will end up investing time to learn that the wheel doesnt roll.<hr />People would re-forge the wheel whether we laid down a framework for it or not. Personally, I don't think that D&D is a particularly great rule system for PvP play mostly because so many character capabilities are dependent on environmental conditions and on equipment. I'm sure it can be made to support PvP more equitably, but that's clearly not the sort of gameplay that the 3E/3.5 designers set out to facilitate.
The game system in Guild Wars was designed to facilitate PvP and it does a very good job of it. But that was always a goal of the game's developers.
Question for h4rdc0r3 radial menu numpad players (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=474321&post=4040124&forum=95&highlight=)
Hi there. I know a lot of NWN players use the numeric keypad as an input method for the radial menu. Those that do, are you using a numpad detached from the keyboard so you can use your non-mouse hand, or do you take your hand off of your mouse to use the numpad? thx 2 u
More: Would you say that you use the radial menu almost entirely for spellcasting, then?
Adios Ferret! (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=474447&post=4041854&forum=95&highlight=)
Ferret did work at BIS on both Jefferson and Van Buren (The Black Hound and Fallout 3). On F3 he was designing the highly nutty (but cool) Brotherhood of Steel/Circle of Steel stuff. I'm now the acting lead designer on NWN2.