chevalier
Mon, 28th Aug '06, 9:34am
Here are today's Neverwinter Nights 2 forum highlights, collected by NWVault (http://nwvault.ign.com). Please take into account that these are only single parts of various threads and should not be taken out of context. Bear in mind also that the posts presented here are copied as-is, and that any bad spelling and grammar does not get corrected on our end.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">J.E. Sawyer, Lead Designer</font>
Nonstandard stacking rules? (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=493693&post=4278756&forum=95&highlight=)
The Frenzied Berserker was doing upwards of 80 points of damage per strike prior to our stacking and power attack revisions. Weak will saves can be compensated for extremely easily, especially if the player can reload.
If you don't think that's too powerful, I don't know what to say.
More: <hr />Well he did'nt really qualify that exactly. But, in any case, je should have anticipated troubles with frenzied before he added it to NWN2.<hr />I didn't add it.
An observation about ZOTS. (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494056&post=4280395&forum=95&highlight=)
I have very few things to say in this thread:
* I have already stated that it took one programmer (Andy Woo) a single line of code to implement the stacking change. His total investment was half an hour.
* I have also already stated that this change was not specifically because of the frenzied berserker, but that the frenzied berserker was the worst case. In reality, almost any high-level melee-oriented character can produce astronomical damage numbers due to incredibly high strength scores.
* Lastly, I have previously stated that this stacking method was preferred by WotC given the facts of the existing (absent) stacking rules for ability score bonuses.
Why do I bother repeatedly stating these things if people are going to ignore them?
Barbarian Rage (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494014&post=4280427&forum=95&highlight=)
<hr />P.S: This also goes for other issues that people have been touchy about, such as the forced max HP over a toogle switch for max or mean or the new death system, wich I think is a bit wierd myself... Basicly, anything that was changed from the core rule,s not because they couldn't implement them,<hr />The max HP system was implemented because there was not sufficient time to implement a campaign-level toggle system and the death system is scripted specifically for our OC.
The stacking rules were also implemented the way we did it because the time required to mark and logically sort all ability score bonuses in the game was prohibitive.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Patrick K Mills, Production Tester</font>
An observation about ZOTS. (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494056&post=4280435&forum=95&highlight=)
Seriously, who started the word ZOTS? The acid jaws of the spider queen await them in the beyond.
I'm not a designer, and at the most I just impliment changes, so any specific questions about why something was changed will have to be answered by someone else. Good thing is, most of them already have been answered.
The D&D rules are not sacred texts, they have errors, elements of poor balance, typographical errors, illogical statements, contradictions.
They also have rules that, when applied to a computer game, just don't work well. Every D&D CRPG ever released has deviated from the rules in one place or another, either by omission or revision. It's the nature of things.
Yes, the rule says that when a good cleric turns undead, they run away. The problem is, this breaks things and isn't fun for most people. People tend not to enjoy bughunts, and without any way to effectively grapple a target, those guys can keep running for a long time.
The good news for purists is that many of these things can be changed simply, through scripting or 2DA editing.
The good news for everyone else is that the game is actually fun to play with the standard campaign rules.
More: <hr />Point 3: I'm not sure why we're discussing ability score stacking when we're in agreement here. You implemented ability score stacking per the rules. That's the way it should be. There's not an argument (from me anyway) on this point.<hr />I know why you are discussing stacking rules.
<hr />
It bothers me that Obsidian is concerned that one build, out of thousands upon thousands of builds that are possible, can do 80+ dmg. per hit and actually changed the rules because of this build. I don't like that they're spending man hours to make it so that a build, which is a legal build by the way, becomes weaker.
It might have been easy changes in the code to change the bonuses from 5 and 10 to 3 and 6 for Power Attack and Improved Power Attack respectively. Maybe it was just as easy to change Expertise and Improved Expertise too. I would prefer that you spend man hours fixing something that doesn't work according to the core rules, instead of breaking feats for the purpose of trying to weaken one build combination for your one module.<hr />just fyi guys
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">George Ziets, Designer</font>
Romance! (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=493971&post=4279373&forum=95&highlight=)
A few of your companions will offer possibilities for romance, but not all of them. You'll have the opportunity to pursue this if you like, or you can avoid it entirely. Your success or failure will depend upon your choices in your interactions with them, and sometimes on your behavior in various situations.
Unlike Fable, NWN2 will not allow you to romance random townsfolk, no matter how cute they may be. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Erik Novales, Programmer</font>
Q for Devs: Toolset API and IronPython? (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=493806&post=4279279&forum=100&highlight=)
Any .NET language can be used to extend the toolset, AFAIK.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Anthony Davis, Programmer</font>
An observation about ZOTS. (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494056&post=4280381&forum=95&highlight=)
On equick note about the turn undead change. With our improved pathfinding, I garrr-ennnnteeeee you would NOT like chasing undead all over the map.
No one who has actually played the game liked it. We are not lying when we say that there were actually cheers when we announced the WoTC approved change.
I'll comment on the rest later when I have time and am actually at work.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">J.E. Sawyer, Lead Designer</font>
Nonstandard stacking rules? (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=493693&post=4278756&forum=95&highlight=)
The Frenzied Berserker was doing upwards of 80 points of damage per strike prior to our stacking and power attack revisions. Weak will saves can be compensated for extremely easily, especially if the player can reload.
If you don't think that's too powerful, I don't know what to say.
More: <hr />Well he did'nt really qualify that exactly. But, in any case, je should have anticipated troubles with frenzied before he added it to NWN2.<hr />I didn't add it.
An observation about ZOTS. (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494056&post=4280395&forum=95&highlight=)
I have very few things to say in this thread:
* I have already stated that it took one programmer (Andy Woo) a single line of code to implement the stacking change. His total investment was half an hour.
* I have also already stated that this change was not specifically because of the frenzied berserker, but that the frenzied berserker was the worst case. In reality, almost any high-level melee-oriented character can produce astronomical damage numbers due to incredibly high strength scores.
* Lastly, I have previously stated that this stacking method was preferred by WotC given the facts of the existing (absent) stacking rules for ability score bonuses.
Why do I bother repeatedly stating these things if people are going to ignore them?
Barbarian Rage (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494014&post=4280427&forum=95&highlight=)
<hr />P.S: This also goes for other issues that people have been touchy about, such as the forced max HP over a toogle switch for max or mean or the new death system, wich I think is a bit wierd myself... Basicly, anything that was changed from the core rule,s not because they couldn't implement them,<hr />The max HP system was implemented because there was not sufficient time to implement a campaign-level toggle system and the death system is scripted specifically for our OC.
The stacking rules were also implemented the way we did it because the time required to mark and logically sort all ability score bonuses in the game was prohibitive.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Patrick K Mills, Production Tester</font>
An observation about ZOTS. (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494056&post=4280435&forum=95&highlight=)
Seriously, who started the word ZOTS? The acid jaws of the spider queen await them in the beyond.
I'm not a designer, and at the most I just impliment changes, so any specific questions about why something was changed will have to be answered by someone else. Good thing is, most of them already have been answered.
The D&D rules are not sacred texts, they have errors, elements of poor balance, typographical errors, illogical statements, contradictions.
They also have rules that, when applied to a computer game, just don't work well. Every D&D CRPG ever released has deviated from the rules in one place or another, either by omission or revision. It's the nature of things.
Yes, the rule says that when a good cleric turns undead, they run away. The problem is, this breaks things and isn't fun for most people. People tend not to enjoy bughunts, and without any way to effectively grapple a target, those guys can keep running for a long time.
The good news for purists is that many of these things can be changed simply, through scripting or 2DA editing.
The good news for everyone else is that the game is actually fun to play with the standard campaign rules.
More: <hr />Point 3: I'm not sure why we're discussing ability score stacking when we're in agreement here. You implemented ability score stacking per the rules. That's the way it should be. There's not an argument (from me anyway) on this point.<hr />I know why you are discussing stacking rules.
<hr />
It bothers me that Obsidian is concerned that one build, out of thousands upon thousands of builds that are possible, can do 80+ dmg. per hit and actually changed the rules because of this build. I don't like that they're spending man hours to make it so that a build, which is a legal build by the way, becomes weaker.
It might have been easy changes in the code to change the bonuses from 5 and 10 to 3 and 6 for Power Attack and Improved Power Attack respectively. Maybe it was just as easy to change Expertise and Improved Expertise too. I would prefer that you spend man hours fixing something that doesn't work according to the core rules, instead of breaking feats for the purpose of trying to weaken one build combination for your one module.<hr />just fyi guys
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">George Ziets, Designer</font>
Romance! (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=493971&post=4279373&forum=95&highlight=)
A few of your companions will offer possibilities for romance, but not all of them. You'll have the opportunity to pursue this if you like, or you can avoid it entirely. Your success or failure will depend upon your choices in your interactions with them, and sometimes on your behavior in various situations.
Unlike Fable, NWN2 will not allow you to romance random townsfolk, no matter how cute they may be. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Erik Novales, Programmer</font>
Q for Devs: Toolset API and IronPython? (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=493806&post=4279279&forum=100&highlight=)
Any .NET language can be used to extend the toolset, AFAIK.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Anthony Davis, Programmer</font>
An observation about ZOTS. (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494056&post=4280381&forum=95&highlight=)
On equick note about the turn undead change. With our improved pathfinding, I garrr-ennnnteeeee you would NOT like chasing undead all over the map.
No one who has actually played the game liked it. We are not lying when we say that there were actually cheers when we announced the WoTC approved change.
I'll comment on the rest later when I have time and am actually at work.