chevalier
Fri, 8th Sep '06, 2:22pm
Here are today's Neverwinter Nights forum highlights, collected by NWVault (http://nwvault.ign.com). Please take into account that these are only single parts of various threads and should not be taken out of context. Bear in mind also that the posts presented here are copied as-is, and that any bad spelling and grammar does not get corrected on our end.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Derek French, Live Team Producer</font>
1.68 is now available (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494845&post=4298721&forum=42&highlight=)
<hr />Firstly I'd like to point out someone (not me) did bring it up in Beta 1<hr />You mean posted about it on the forums, along with several thousand other posts here at the BioWare forums? We can't read everything that is posted here. Its just not possible. An e-mail or a PM would have worked much better, but its all a moot point now.
<hr />Quote: and secondly shouldn't Derek's lament have been "it would have been great if someone had brought that up during design or implementation"?<hr />Because we had no reason during the design of "adding cloaks to NWN" to do something that was basically 100% diametrically opposed to that goal. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Different File Types (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495751&post=4299166&forum=74&highlight=)
.tlk files are Talk Table files. They hold all the language-specific strings for our game, toolset, and campaigns.
http://nwn.bioware.com/developers/
Scroll on down until you find the section on TLKs.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Georg Zoeller, Designer</font>
1.68 patch (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495305&post=4298705&forum=44&highlight=)
<parenting mode on>
<hr />There seems to have been no testing done on the impact of those that use CEP which has caused all sorts of glitches in character movement and other visuals.<hr />a) CEP is a community project and BioWare does not test for compatibility. In fact we know CEP will break every patch and the creators of CEP know that too. That's how the system works.
b) We put a beta patch out, if nobody used it to fix their hakpaks, we couldn't care less about the results an
<hr />All my characters portraits are now either blank or just a black box, my character stats are messed up even one character i had been working on as a level 27 monk at the time is now somehow a level 29 barbarian ???<hr />Yes, you are using CEP, it's breaking things. As every patch.
<hr />Don't you people ever bother to remotely test these patches , or even bother to ask the end users for their assessment before implementing such a crock of diarrhoea.<hr />Yes, you are using CEP, it's breaking things. As every patch.
<hr />The cloaks are rubbish, they look like a streak of diarrhoea running down your back and rapped around your neck. I reiterate... if i want a cloak visible i can use CEP and inaddition to that i can dye thing a more desirable colour too.<hr />Yes, you are using CEP, it's breaking things. As every patch.
<hr />I'd love the servers i play on to go back to 1.67 but am guessing they won't. So no point in just saying if you don't like it revert is there.... <hr />Well, I guess there is no point in complaining then, because the cloaks are here to stay. What makes you believe that BioWare would undo a patch that is accepted widely by most servers already because YOU complained?
<hr />THIS IS AN UNWANTED ADDITION<hr />Yea, we get it, you don't like it. We like it. We make the game. Mod it yourself if you want to. End of Story.
<hr />Visible cloaks add nothing to the game, we already have cloaks if we wanted them through CEP.. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif <hr />Well, frankly you add nothing to this forum or discussion http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif
For everyone who still doesn't get it:
- If you don't like a patch, don't update. BioWare doesn't force anyone to update
- CEP is a community project and the community needs to update it every patch to work with the latest resources. This has always been the case and will always be the case
- CEP is breaking patch 1.68 and all kinds of things will be broken when you play with 1.68 and CEP. Blaming BioWare won't help in this case because it's CEP that's breaking your game and we have nothing to do with CEP except for hosting the forums.
- We put out beta patches in order to allow content creators, like the CEP team to update their hakpaks.
- We put out beta patches to identify problems with patches, but since only a small number of people ever download those and even fewer report problems, we're kind
- We don't give a damn about loud, obnoxious minorities, so posts like the above don't achieve anything.
- We created this game. We patch this game. We make the the decisions what goes into the game. If you don't like a decision (like the cloaks), you can mod it, or you can complain about it, but frankly, we're kind of sick of spoiled brats demanding that the game should be shaped according to THEIR will and THEIR wants.
We take our community and their input serious, after all, that's the reason there are now cloaks and robes and all kind of other fancy things in NWN.
However, to be taken serious, people have to behave in a way that we can take them serious.
We understand that there are people posting on these boards who are underage and sometimes still think the whole world revolves around them (one of the problems with T rated games).
Son, I'm not sure how to say this - the cloaks are here to stay, even if you finish your dinner plate tonight.
</parenting mode off>
In regards to CEP:
We like the work the CEP people do, we really do - BUT we do not give them special treatment. They have to fix their hakpaks like anyone else.
The changes introduced in 1.68 are relatively small scale and the beta period was sufficient to update hakpaks out there.
At this point, the team supporting the 4 year old NWN is quite small, any additional compatibility testing done would prevent us from releasing any new patches - and frankly CEP is an huge piece of work by a group of dedicated people, no doubt, but it does not meet our quality and implementation standards in many regards and therefore would never be considered for official support anyway.
As I mentioned in another post, I will certainly be pushing for a kill switch in any future games that allow custom content. We update, we kill all content that hasn't been updated.
Short: Use it at your own risk, it's not an official BioWare product.
Neverwinter Nights: Infinite Dungeons (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=482360&post=4298733&forum=86&highlight=)
What part of "internet connection required while playing" is unclear?
Click Here (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=georg.zoeller&aid=4970757560800903185&iid=4970757576984363026)
Click Here (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=georg.zoeller&aid=4970757560800903185&iid=4970757602825928722)
Click Here (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=georg.zoeller&aid=4970757560800903185&iid=4970757582633697298)
Click Here (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=georg.zoeller&aid=4970757560800903185&iid=4970757587128483858)
Moving Placeables Via Script (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495698&post=4298745&forum=47&highlight=)
The boat sequence in HotU might give you some ideas.
Or that old spelljammer tilset, that came with a demo of fighting ships.
Reminder: CEP and official Patches (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495705&post=4298757&forum=83&highlight=)
Every patch we release will require CEP to be update, otherwise you WILL experience unwanted behavior in the game (such as cloaks not animating or dyeable for 1.68) in the game.
CEP is a community project and is not an official BioWare product, nor is it officially supported by BioWare. We only host these forums.
Click Here (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=336438&forum=83)
Every patch we release has a serveral weeks long Beta period which is meant to allow content creators and server operators to prepare their hakpaks for the patch.
Unfortunately only few server operators and mod teams take advantage of the beta period, both for upgrading their modules and for reporting bugs or suggestions, leading to complications for players using these hakpaks or servers once the patch is released.
BioWare does not provide special treatment or compatibility testing to CEP - the team has to fix their own hakpaks for each patch just like anyone else. Due to incompatible quality and implementation standards, BioWare will never consider testing any patch against CEP before release - all changes have to be made by the CEP team.
Short: If you have trouble after a patch and you are using CEP, don't complain to BioWare, because we can't and won't do anything about that.
I attached this hand version matrix for reference:
Click Here (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=495706&forum=83)
CEP Compatibility Matrix and Version Information (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495706&post=4298760&forum=83&highlight=)
Below is the compatibility matrix for CEP and NWN
NWN 1.66 requires CEP 1.52
NWN 1.67 requires CEP 1.53
NWN 1.68 requiers CEP 1.54 (not released yet)
Not running the required version of CEP for a patch WILL cause gameplay and problems:
Click Here (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=495705&forum=83)
1.68 Cloaks (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494920&post=4298787&forum=42&highlight=)
<hr />The only "issue" I've had with the cloaks is that they do not play nice with cloak systems that already exist **cough** C.R.A.P. **cough**. Basically, you end up with two cloaks instead of one. Easy to fix with script, though.
Otherwise, the cloaks look cool.
http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif<hr />Patches we put out do not consider community created systems, have never considered them nor will they ever.
1.68 is now available (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494845&post=4299326&forum=42&highlight=)
We won't add any 'make this optional' functionality to the game, after all the point was to add cloaks, not to remove them.
If we find time for it, we might add a null model for cloaks to the game to enable modders who want invisible cloaks to select a null appearance.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Stanley Woo, Quality Assurance</font>
Patch 1.68 - #21 (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494982&post=4299003&forum=42&highlight=)
<hr />I'll make one complaint about the Premium Module setup- How come there weren't MORE Premium Modules. I downloaded PotSC and Kingmaker, and felt the 7-10 hours I got out of each was way more than worth the piddly amount of money that could have alternately purchased a ticket to see a 2-hour movie. And the money goes to actually improving the existing content? I would have bought 20 of these games, for that double benefit---> Short term fun for the module & Long-term fun for NWN.<hr />You should ask this in the Premium Module forum. To make a long story short, we simply don't have the resources available to fully analyze and test that many Premium modules. the Premium Module program was an experiment to see if that sort of thing would be successful. Now that we know it is successful, NWN is getting long in the tooth. You may see more happening with the store and digital distribution with future BioWare projects.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Johnn Four, Web Developer</font>
WWW Poll: Now that the school season has started: (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495820&post=4299939&forum=41&highlight=)
This week's BioWare poll (http://www.bioware.com) is:
Now that the school season has started:
o I will be spending more time playing video games
o I will be spending less time playing video games
o The time I spend playing video games won’t change
o Other, read my comments
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Derek French, Live Team Producer</font>
1.68 is now available (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494845&post=4298721&forum=42&highlight=)
<hr />Firstly I'd like to point out someone (not me) did bring it up in Beta 1<hr />You mean posted about it on the forums, along with several thousand other posts here at the BioWare forums? We can't read everything that is posted here. Its just not possible. An e-mail or a PM would have worked much better, but its all a moot point now.
<hr />Quote: and secondly shouldn't Derek's lament have been "it would have been great if someone had brought that up during design or implementation"?<hr />Because we had no reason during the design of "adding cloaks to NWN" to do something that was basically 100% diametrically opposed to that goal. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Different File Types (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495751&post=4299166&forum=74&highlight=)
.tlk files are Talk Table files. They hold all the language-specific strings for our game, toolset, and campaigns.
http://nwn.bioware.com/developers/
Scroll on down until you find the section on TLKs.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Georg Zoeller, Designer</font>
1.68 patch (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495305&post=4298705&forum=44&highlight=)
<parenting mode on>
<hr />There seems to have been no testing done on the impact of those that use CEP which has caused all sorts of glitches in character movement and other visuals.<hr />a) CEP is a community project and BioWare does not test for compatibility. In fact we know CEP will break every patch and the creators of CEP know that too. That's how the system works.
b) We put a beta patch out, if nobody used it to fix their hakpaks, we couldn't care less about the results an
<hr />All my characters portraits are now either blank or just a black box, my character stats are messed up even one character i had been working on as a level 27 monk at the time is now somehow a level 29 barbarian ???<hr />Yes, you are using CEP, it's breaking things. As every patch.
<hr />Don't you people ever bother to remotely test these patches , or even bother to ask the end users for their assessment before implementing such a crock of diarrhoea.<hr />Yes, you are using CEP, it's breaking things. As every patch.
<hr />The cloaks are rubbish, they look like a streak of diarrhoea running down your back and rapped around your neck. I reiterate... if i want a cloak visible i can use CEP and inaddition to that i can dye thing a more desirable colour too.<hr />Yes, you are using CEP, it's breaking things. As every patch.
<hr />I'd love the servers i play on to go back to 1.67 but am guessing they won't. So no point in just saying if you don't like it revert is there.... <hr />Well, I guess there is no point in complaining then, because the cloaks are here to stay. What makes you believe that BioWare would undo a patch that is accepted widely by most servers already because YOU complained?
<hr />THIS IS AN UNWANTED ADDITION<hr />Yea, we get it, you don't like it. We like it. We make the game. Mod it yourself if you want to. End of Story.
<hr />Visible cloaks add nothing to the game, we already have cloaks if we wanted them through CEP.. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif <hr />Well, frankly you add nothing to this forum or discussion http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif
For everyone who still doesn't get it:
- If you don't like a patch, don't update. BioWare doesn't force anyone to update
- CEP is a community project and the community needs to update it every patch to work with the latest resources. This has always been the case and will always be the case
- CEP is breaking patch 1.68 and all kinds of things will be broken when you play with 1.68 and CEP. Blaming BioWare won't help in this case because it's CEP that's breaking your game and we have nothing to do with CEP except for hosting the forums.
- We put out beta patches in order to allow content creators, like the CEP team to update their hakpaks.
- We put out beta patches to identify problems with patches, but since only a small number of people ever download those and even fewer report problems, we're kind
- We don't give a damn about loud, obnoxious minorities, so posts like the above don't achieve anything.
- We created this game. We patch this game. We make the the decisions what goes into the game. If you don't like a decision (like the cloaks), you can mod it, or you can complain about it, but frankly, we're kind of sick of spoiled brats demanding that the game should be shaped according to THEIR will and THEIR wants.
We take our community and their input serious, after all, that's the reason there are now cloaks and robes and all kind of other fancy things in NWN.
However, to be taken serious, people have to behave in a way that we can take them serious.
We understand that there are people posting on these boards who are underage and sometimes still think the whole world revolves around them (one of the problems with T rated games).
Son, I'm not sure how to say this - the cloaks are here to stay, even if you finish your dinner plate tonight.
</parenting mode off>
In regards to CEP:
We like the work the CEP people do, we really do - BUT we do not give them special treatment. They have to fix their hakpaks like anyone else.
The changes introduced in 1.68 are relatively small scale and the beta period was sufficient to update hakpaks out there.
At this point, the team supporting the 4 year old NWN is quite small, any additional compatibility testing done would prevent us from releasing any new patches - and frankly CEP is an huge piece of work by a group of dedicated people, no doubt, but it does not meet our quality and implementation standards in many regards and therefore would never be considered for official support anyway.
As I mentioned in another post, I will certainly be pushing for a kill switch in any future games that allow custom content. We update, we kill all content that hasn't been updated.
Short: Use it at your own risk, it's not an official BioWare product.
Neverwinter Nights: Infinite Dungeons (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=482360&post=4298733&forum=86&highlight=)
What part of "internet connection required while playing" is unclear?
Click Here (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=georg.zoeller&aid=4970757560800903185&iid=4970757576984363026)
Click Here (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=georg.zoeller&aid=4970757560800903185&iid=4970757602825928722)
Click Here (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=georg.zoeller&aid=4970757560800903185&iid=4970757582633697298)
Click Here (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=georg.zoeller&aid=4970757560800903185&iid=4970757587128483858)
Moving Placeables Via Script (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495698&post=4298745&forum=47&highlight=)
The boat sequence in HotU might give you some ideas.
Or that old spelljammer tilset, that came with a demo of fighting ships.
Reminder: CEP and official Patches (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495705&post=4298757&forum=83&highlight=)
Every patch we release will require CEP to be update, otherwise you WILL experience unwanted behavior in the game (such as cloaks not animating or dyeable for 1.68) in the game.
CEP is a community project and is not an official BioWare product, nor is it officially supported by BioWare. We only host these forums.
Click Here (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=336438&forum=83)
Every patch we release has a serveral weeks long Beta period which is meant to allow content creators and server operators to prepare their hakpaks for the patch.
Unfortunately only few server operators and mod teams take advantage of the beta period, both for upgrading their modules and for reporting bugs or suggestions, leading to complications for players using these hakpaks or servers once the patch is released.
BioWare does not provide special treatment or compatibility testing to CEP - the team has to fix their own hakpaks for each patch just like anyone else. Due to incompatible quality and implementation standards, BioWare will never consider testing any patch against CEP before release - all changes have to be made by the CEP team.
Short: If you have trouble after a patch and you are using CEP, don't complain to BioWare, because we can't and won't do anything about that.
I attached this hand version matrix for reference:
Click Here (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=495706&forum=83)
CEP Compatibility Matrix and Version Information (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495706&post=4298760&forum=83&highlight=)
Below is the compatibility matrix for CEP and NWN
NWN 1.66 requires CEP 1.52
NWN 1.67 requires CEP 1.53
NWN 1.68 requiers CEP 1.54 (not released yet)
Not running the required version of CEP for a patch WILL cause gameplay and problems:
Click Here (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=495705&forum=83)
1.68 Cloaks (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494920&post=4298787&forum=42&highlight=)
<hr />The only "issue" I've had with the cloaks is that they do not play nice with cloak systems that already exist **cough** C.R.A.P. **cough**. Basically, you end up with two cloaks instead of one. Easy to fix with script, though.
Otherwise, the cloaks look cool.
http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif<hr />Patches we put out do not consider community created systems, have never considered them nor will they ever.
1.68 is now available (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494845&post=4299326&forum=42&highlight=)
We won't add any 'make this optional' functionality to the game, after all the point was to add cloaks, not to remove them.
If we find time for it, we might add a null model for cloaks to the game to enable modders who want invisible cloaks to select a null appearance.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Stanley Woo, Quality Assurance</font>
Patch 1.68 - #21 (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=494982&post=4299003&forum=42&highlight=)
<hr />I'll make one complaint about the Premium Module setup- How come there weren't MORE Premium Modules. I downloaded PotSC and Kingmaker, and felt the 7-10 hours I got out of each was way more than worth the piddly amount of money that could have alternately purchased a ticket to see a 2-hour movie. And the money goes to actually improving the existing content? I would have bought 20 of these games, for that double benefit---> Short term fun for the module & Long-term fun for NWN.<hr />You should ask this in the Premium Module forum. To make a long story short, we simply don't have the resources available to fully analyze and test that many Premium modules. the Premium Module program was an experiment to see if that sort of thing would be successful. Now that we know it is successful, NWN is getting long in the tooth. You may see more happening with the store and digital distribution with future BioWare projects.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Johnn Four, Web Developer</font>
WWW Poll: Now that the school season has started: (http://nwn.bioware.com//forums/viewpost.html?topic=495820&post=4299939&forum=41&highlight=)
This week's BioWare poll (http://www.bioware.com) is:
Now that the school season has started:
o I will be spending more time playing video games
o I will be spending less time playing video games
o The time I spend playing video games won’t change
o Other, read my comments