chevalier
Thu, 22nd Feb '07, 9:48pm
Here are today's Neverwinter Nights 2 forum highlights, collected by NWVault (http://nwvault.ign.com). Please take into account that these are only single parts of various threads and should not be taken out of context. Bear in mind also that the posts presented here are copied as-is, and that any bad spelling and grammar does not get corrected on our end.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Rob McGinnis</font>
NWN2 vs NWN1 @gamerankings.com (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549119&post=4829209&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr />Of course Obsidian could produce a nice walkthrough guide to the toolset as Bioware did before, for d/l as a pdf, and prove me wrong. Why not have alook at the small module that the bioware guide produces and do a step by step on producing the same thing with the 2 toolset. That would be much appreciated.<hr />There should be one available on the vault already. It's the one that was used for the beta participants and uses the Unexpected Guests module that is included with the game.
Post Replying (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549271&post=4829329&forum=113&highlight=)
Just because we don't reply, doesn't mean we don't see your post. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif
Worried about patching process. Disappointed (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549222&post=4829482&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr /><hr />I was really looking forward to NWN2 , in fact almost added it to my Xmas wish list until I found out about the patching process....there simply doesn't seem to be one unless you have high speed internet.
I've read and searched the forums and found there are some Mickey Mouse work around but can't find a centralized area where the patches are available for downloading and installing (as per NWN1 , CoH etc. etc.). Atari/Obsidian don't seem to supply them for gods sake, and it’s their game.<hr />Coming back to the main thread:
When I faced the same problem as Braethorn does, not knowing what to do, I just wrote to Atari/Obsidian enquiring about it.
They answered me nicely that THERE WAS NOT AN OFFICIAL STANDALONE PATCH AVALIABLE! Maybe one day in the future…
It was just a few weeks ago and the1,03 patch existed already! So I decided to go for a dial-up and almost got mad before the download was complete. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif
So my question is – DON’T THEY EVEN KNOW THEY HAVE ISSUED SUCH PATCHES?! http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif Or Braethorn is right about that Mickey Mouse work and the fact that legit owners are not entitled to full support?!
By the way – the whole thing speaks volumes about their competence and/or willingness to help. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif
Good such forums as this one exist, they make players life much easier... http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_good.gif<hr />This is why you come to these forums first.
Save Game Corruption-Discussion (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=545230&post=4829490&forum=109&highlight=)
If a bug is especially dreadful, you can PM me too. That way I can keep tabs on it.
I'll take the broken save file if you still have it.
My review after completing NWN 2 (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549896&post=4829509&forum=110&highlight=)
Honestly, I have never had an issue with the camera. I play in top-down mode most of the time and find it to be basically just like NWN1. Maybe it's just how I position the camera.
If you guys could describe some of the issues you have with the camera, that might help. If anyone has any videos of camera issues, that would help even more.
textures blending improperly on seams (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=547539&post=4829530&forum=113&highlight=)
Right now we can't seem to reproduce this internally.
The files we have tried to get from the community appear to be too large (which scares me).
If anyone has a small module with this issue, please send me a PM and let me know. Thanks,
Patching to 1.04.870 renders game unplayable (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549965&post=4829664&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr />I thought that I would pass on a note to let you know that patching to version 1.04.870 (which I just did), gives an error of "Wrong disc inserted. Please insert the CD/DVD" Choices: Retry / Cancel. I didn’t have any issues prior to patching up. I have the Telstra GamesShop version that loads to the hard drive, and does not come with a disc. Therefore, having no disc renders the game unplayable.<hr />I believe for this issue you will need to contact your distributor.
I will check here as well, but I believe these issues are distributer issues.
Anyone else have this same issue?
Personal Attacks (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549286&post=4829520&forum=109&highlight=)
No need to thank me.
Thank the Community Representatives for bringing things to our attention. Thank yourselves for chatting with us in the IRC channel and helping us understand your issues.
More: <hr />Now stop making me defend the Obsidian Devs on the topic how NWN2 could be bug free --- you'll ruin my curmudgen reputation. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif <hr />Impossible! I wouldn't let that happen http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif
free for all questions (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549478&post=4829983&forum=109&highlight=)
You can export a character from a custom module and that character will be saved in your local vault.
Then, if you start a new campaign, that character with all his/her levels will be available to play in the campaign.
Make a link to patch info (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549924&post=4830931&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr />I understand that at things take more time in a professional environment. I understand a higher level of control, documentation, etc. is needed. But if some things simply take too much time and what causes trouble is easy to fix, why not consider to make some changes in the formal processes? Why paint a barn wall with small brushes and with one supervisor for each painter when one person could just spray paint it? http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif
Just a thought.
What would be the big risk with allowing for example one skilled programmer to go through the huge spell bug lists presented by the community and make changes accordingly? And then sending the new version for testing, specifically documenting all changes before and after? http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif
Even an amateur like me could actually manage to fix a lot of things, test it, and document what has been done before and after in just one day. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_ignore.gif
I guess my point is that if the chance of creating a new bug or cause some confusion increases from 0,1 % to 0,2 % because of fixing things in 10 times the speed, then it would be a good thing.<hr />All good points, however it's not always that simple.
Every task you give someone takes capacity away for working on other things. So for each thing a programmer works on in a given day, that's at least one more thing that cannot be worked on in a given day. So the challenge is to make sure you work on the right things. Josh already illustrated what it takes to fix one bug and how many people get involved. Just in the direct process alone, you could be looking at multiple testers, multiple programmers, a producer and a designer. Not to mention if a customer request entails getting approval from Atari or WoTC.
You have to look at whether bugs break progression in the game or crash a computer? will the bug affect many players or few players? Is there a workaround? Is there community content available as a workaround? Will it cost more to fix than it impacts the player? Is the community content better than our planned fix (you guys don't have to worry about how much it costs to do things)? How many programmers will the fix require? Can the bug be reproduced internally? Do we have a test case? Are we fixing the root problem or just a symptom of the problem? Does the fix cause more problems? Do large parts of the engine need to be re-coded to implement a fix? Is there already something in process that would affect the issue? etc, etc.
So using community fixes is not a bad thing. Nor do community fixes preclude us making a fix ourselves.. it just may lower the priority a bit or change the way we approach the fix. Plus, community fixes can be traded out very easily, whereas anything we do will be embedded in the code, most likely. Making changes much more difficult for the community.
Best Bug Ever. (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=550023&post=4830947&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr />So I'm a Wiz6 EK10 PM1, fun times.
Except my character now runs in place and sometimes for fun I pop off the map for a nice view of the sky. More game ending however is the fact that my character sheet now says I' a level one fighter despite the fact that my save game has the accurate info, this has happened three times today.
Can anyone top this?<hr />Whatthe... I may need to get a copy of your character file and, if you are playing in a custom mod, maybe that too. Do you perhaps have a video of this stuff happening?
I LOVE this game! (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549183&post=4830985&forum=109&highlight=)
*rings the bell and sends the fighters to their corners*
Time to take a step back.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Rob McGinnis</font>
NWN2 vs NWN1 @gamerankings.com (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549119&post=4829209&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr />Of course Obsidian could produce a nice walkthrough guide to the toolset as Bioware did before, for d/l as a pdf, and prove me wrong. Why not have alook at the small module that the bioware guide produces and do a step by step on producing the same thing with the 2 toolset. That would be much appreciated.<hr />There should be one available on the vault already. It's the one that was used for the beta participants and uses the Unexpected Guests module that is included with the game.
Post Replying (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549271&post=4829329&forum=113&highlight=)
Just because we don't reply, doesn't mean we don't see your post. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif
Worried about patching process. Disappointed (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549222&post=4829482&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr /><hr />I was really looking forward to NWN2 , in fact almost added it to my Xmas wish list until I found out about the patching process....there simply doesn't seem to be one unless you have high speed internet.
I've read and searched the forums and found there are some Mickey Mouse work around but can't find a centralized area where the patches are available for downloading and installing (as per NWN1 , CoH etc. etc.). Atari/Obsidian don't seem to supply them for gods sake, and it’s their game.<hr />Coming back to the main thread:
When I faced the same problem as Braethorn does, not knowing what to do, I just wrote to Atari/Obsidian enquiring about it.
They answered me nicely that THERE WAS NOT AN OFFICIAL STANDALONE PATCH AVALIABLE! Maybe one day in the future…
It was just a few weeks ago and the1,03 patch existed already! So I decided to go for a dial-up and almost got mad before the download was complete. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif
So my question is – DON’T THEY EVEN KNOW THEY HAVE ISSUED SUCH PATCHES?! http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif Or Braethorn is right about that Mickey Mouse work and the fact that legit owners are not entitled to full support?!
By the way – the whole thing speaks volumes about their competence and/or willingness to help. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif
Good such forums as this one exist, they make players life much easier... http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_good.gif<hr />This is why you come to these forums first.
Save Game Corruption-Discussion (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=545230&post=4829490&forum=109&highlight=)
If a bug is especially dreadful, you can PM me too. That way I can keep tabs on it.
I'll take the broken save file if you still have it.
My review after completing NWN 2 (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549896&post=4829509&forum=110&highlight=)
Honestly, I have never had an issue with the camera. I play in top-down mode most of the time and find it to be basically just like NWN1. Maybe it's just how I position the camera.
If you guys could describe some of the issues you have with the camera, that might help. If anyone has any videos of camera issues, that would help even more.
textures blending improperly on seams (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=547539&post=4829530&forum=113&highlight=)
Right now we can't seem to reproduce this internally.
The files we have tried to get from the community appear to be too large (which scares me).
If anyone has a small module with this issue, please send me a PM and let me know. Thanks,
Patching to 1.04.870 renders game unplayable (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549965&post=4829664&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr />I thought that I would pass on a note to let you know that patching to version 1.04.870 (which I just did), gives an error of "Wrong disc inserted. Please insert the CD/DVD" Choices: Retry / Cancel. I didn’t have any issues prior to patching up. I have the Telstra GamesShop version that loads to the hard drive, and does not come with a disc. Therefore, having no disc renders the game unplayable.<hr />I believe for this issue you will need to contact your distributor.
I will check here as well, but I believe these issues are distributer issues.
Anyone else have this same issue?
Personal Attacks (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549286&post=4829520&forum=109&highlight=)
No need to thank me.
Thank the Community Representatives for bringing things to our attention. Thank yourselves for chatting with us in the IRC channel and helping us understand your issues.
More: <hr />Now stop making me defend the Obsidian Devs on the topic how NWN2 could be bug free --- you'll ruin my curmudgen reputation. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif <hr />Impossible! I wouldn't let that happen http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif
free for all questions (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549478&post=4829983&forum=109&highlight=)
You can export a character from a custom module and that character will be saved in your local vault.
Then, if you start a new campaign, that character with all his/her levels will be available to play in the campaign.
Make a link to patch info (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549924&post=4830931&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr />I understand that at things take more time in a professional environment. I understand a higher level of control, documentation, etc. is needed. But if some things simply take too much time and what causes trouble is easy to fix, why not consider to make some changes in the formal processes? Why paint a barn wall with small brushes and with one supervisor for each painter when one person could just spray paint it? http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif
Just a thought.
What would be the big risk with allowing for example one skilled programmer to go through the huge spell bug lists presented by the community and make changes accordingly? And then sending the new version for testing, specifically documenting all changes before and after? http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif
Even an amateur like me could actually manage to fix a lot of things, test it, and document what has been done before and after in just one day. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_ignore.gif
I guess my point is that if the chance of creating a new bug or cause some confusion increases from 0,1 % to 0,2 % because of fixing things in 10 times the speed, then it would be a good thing.<hr />All good points, however it's not always that simple.
Every task you give someone takes capacity away for working on other things. So for each thing a programmer works on in a given day, that's at least one more thing that cannot be worked on in a given day. So the challenge is to make sure you work on the right things. Josh already illustrated what it takes to fix one bug and how many people get involved. Just in the direct process alone, you could be looking at multiple testers, multiple programmers, a producer and a designer. Not to mention if a customer request entails getting approval from Atari or WoTC.
You have to look at whether bugs break progression in the game or crash a computer? will the bug affect many players or few players? Is there a workaround? Is there community content available as a workaround? Will it cost more to fix than it impacts the player? Is the community content better than our planned fix (you guys don't have to worry about how much it costs to do things)? How many programmers will the fix require? Can the bug be reproduced internally? Do we have a test case? Are we fixing the root problem or just a symptom of the problem? Does the fix cause more problems? Do large parts of the engine need to be re-coded to implement a fix? Is there already something in process that would affect the issue? etc, etc.
So using community fixes is not a bad thing. Nor do community fixes preclude us making a fix ourselves.. it just may lower the priority a bit or change the way we approach the fix. Plus, community fixes can be traded out very easily, whereas anything we do will be embedded in the code, most likely. Making changes much more difficult for the community.
Best Bug Ever. (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=550023&post=4830947&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr />So I'm a Wiz6 EK10 PM1, fun times.
Except my character now runs in place and sometimes for fun I pop off the map for a nice view of the sky. More game ending however is the fact that my character sheet now says I' a level one fighter despite the fact that my save game has the accurate info, this has happened three times today.
Can anyone top this?<hr />Whatthe... I may need to get a copy of your character file and, if you are playing in a custom mod, maybe that too. Do you perhaps have a video of this stuff happening?
I LOVE this game! (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549183&post=4830985&forum=109&highlight=)
*rings the bell and sends the fighters to their corners*
Time to take a step back.