chevalier
Thu, 1st Mar '07, 1:03pm
Here are today's Neverwinter Nights forum highlights, collected by NWVault (http://nwvault.ign.com). Please take into account that these are only single parts of various threads and should not be taken out of context. Bear in mind also that the posts presented here are copied as-is, and that any bad spelling and grammar does not get corrected on our end.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Brian Chung, Technical Artist</font>
About the NPC skins (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=550304&post=4836163&forum=48&highlight=)
Load up appearance.2da
Find the # of the model you want to look as
Fire up NWN with your character
Press ` to bring up the DebugConsole
Type DebugMode 1
Press ` again
Type SetAppearance #
Save your chr and enjoy!
The 1.69 request thread (part 5) (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=550398&post=4837767&forum=42&highlight=)
<hr />I'd like to add my voice to the call for one feature that was mentioned in the previous incarnation of this thread: being able to paste text into the character bio field.<hr />Strange, I use the paste feature to copy character bios all the time during character creation.
Delay Command help (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=550653&post=4838095&forum=47&highlight=)
The problem is DelayCommand() runs outside the scope of the script, so the line: View Post/Code in separate window (viewcodepost.html?post=4838095) Hope that helps.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Brenon Holmes, Programmer</font>
On Stealth and Detect... (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549835&post=4835930&forum=42&highlight=)
Unfortunately, I forgot to check up on the active vs. passive ranks that are used... I can confirm what someone mentioned earlier. You do only get half your spot and listen ranks when in passive mode.
More: Blargh. Had all the modifiers typed up, and then went for lunch... stupid forum timeouts http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif .
Listen/Move Silently:
* Automatically cannot detect silenced creatures
* Can only detect invisible (or when you're blind) creatures within the max attack range.
* Cannot hear sanctuaried creatures
* If there is something between you and the target (including creatures) there's a modifier of +5 DC for every 40cm of thickness in outdoor areas
* In indoor areas, if the LOS is blocked and the target is within 4 tiles (dfs search) there's a modifier of +2 DC
* Area listen check modifiers
* +10 DC if you are in combat
* +5 DC if the target is standing still
* -5 DC if you are standing still
* +1 DC for every 3 meters of distance to the target
* Relative size modifiers (Tiny: +8, Small: +4, Medium: 0, Large: -4, Huge: -8)
* Favoured enemy bonuses
Spot/Hide In Shadows:
* Automatically cannot detect invisible creatures
* Automatically cannot detect anything while blinded
* Area spot check modifiers
* During Night, if you do not have a light on you (including weapon lights and darkvision) there is a +5 DC modifier
* During Night, if the target has a light on them, there is a -10 DC modifier
* For stealthed players only, there is a +5 DC if they are in the back arc
* +10 DC if you are in combat
* +5 DC if the target is standing still
* -5 DC if you are standing still
* Relative size modifiers (Tiny: +8, Small: +4, Medium: 0, Large: -4, Huge: -8)
* Favoured enemy bonuses
There might be some additional modifiers, however I can't recall any off the top of my head and without doing an in depth search through the code I probably won't find them all. Hopefully this answers any additional questions you folks had.
More:<hr />Capital work, Holmes! Awesome.
*edit* Is your sig from Rozencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead?<hr />Yep, great movie.
<hr />Yes, and Sir Brenon, can you provide any illumination on Spot being semi-broken itself in the Engine? It has long been held that Spot works irregularly at best, and doesn't always fire when it is supposed to.<hr />Hmm, it *should* work... for enemies there are definetly some irregularities in how often they perform tests, a lot of that has to do with AI scaling and managing how often we have to process their detection code.
For the player, spot detection should work correctly... do you have any examples (anecdotal, or otherwise) of what you mean by semi-broken?
More:<hr />Also, how exactly does Keen Sense works? Is it the same as a permanent active mode without the speed reduction? Is the range 5ft or 10 ft? Frequency of checks?
Thanks in advance.<hr />Keen Sense is exactly that, permanent active detection mode without movement penalties. The frequencey and range of checks are the same as detailed by Stan in his post.
More:<hr />Sorry, but I cannot provide any evidence of it, other that the repeated dogma I've heard over the years. It's entirely possible that it does work as intended.<hr />Ok, well from the quick once over I did earlier it seems to be working as intended... if the concerns were over NPC stealth detection I think it's fairly understandable as the spot checks will scale their frequency based on activity levels and a whole mess of other factors... so it might be fair to say that the frequency isn't incredibly reliable.
More:<hr />Does the same go for Search ranks?<hr />Originally, it was... however it looks like it was changed at some point, which is probably a bug to be honest. It probably should be half, if we're keeping to the intent of active/passive detection.
<hr />Sorry, one other question as I update NWNWiki:
<hr />* In indoor areas, if the LOS is blocked and the target is within 4 tiles (dfs search) there's a modifier of +2 DC<hr />dfs search?<hr />Depth First Search : Click Me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_first_search) [wikipedia.org]
More:<hr />I'm pretty much convinced that standing still gives a 20 foot detection range for traps. Of course, I could just be off my rocker, but here it goes...<hr />Nope, you're correct. There's actually a third mode I just found today (I was bored) that I'd forgotten about, it's a "passive active" mode http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif . It's activated when you're standing still, so you get the benefits of being in active mode when not moving.
The distances for trap checks are 3.33 meters (about 10ft) for passive mode and 6.66 meters (about 21ft) for active. So it sounds about right, I think I may have converted the values incorrectly when I told Stan earlier.
<hr />* Just to make it clear, there is no roll given to the stealthed character.
Simplistically, it's detector + roll vs Stealth rank + DC modifiers.
Is that correct?<hr />It's a contested roll, the stealthed character uses their cached stealth rolls versus the detector's cached detection rolls (all with applicable modifiers for both characters).
<hr />* The maximum skill rank for Hide and Move silently is 127 according to the character sheet. Can DC modifiers such as size and light make that DC for a detector go above 127?
* Similarly, would a person with 127 spot in active detect mode still get a roll of 1d20? (Say to detect a 135 hide DC attacker)
ie is there a glass ceiling for detectors?<hr />The only limit for skill ranks + modifiers is probably the limit of the data storage for it... so, MAXINT (2,147,483,647). DC modifiers will always apply, there isn't any ceiling.
<hr />Quote: * "Area spot check modifiers"
Can you quickly outline what these are?
(If I had to guess, it sounds like Ranger/Druid wilderness bonus (+4 Hide/ms). But to my knowledge, thats added to the character's skill ranks, and therefore shouldn't be appearing in the DC modifiers.)
Many thanks.<hr />On the area in the editor there should be a field where you can apply area modifiers to spot and listen checks (positive or negative). The wilderness bonuses are built into the skill ranks, I believe, and so are indirectly taken into account.
<hr />I've got a quick question to see if I understand the stealth checks correctly...
This would mean that if there were no changes in the applicable modifiers then the same roll, ranks and modifiers would be checked 30 times for each stealth/detect dyad (ie: the exact same outcome 30 times per round). If you have player X hiding, and player Y detecting. They both get a roll in a round, then those rolls (the same rolls) along with skill ranks and modifiers are compared 30 times within the round.<hr />Yes, except it's very unlikely that both charater's timers are synchronised. So another player could be recomputing their rolls at any point during your timer.
<hr />Quote: If this is the way it works (and it seems to based on the details provided), are the modifiers adjusted between checks? If for example, X (who is hiding) equips a light after the roll for the round, his roll result and his skill ranks would remain unchanged, but the applicable modifiers would change (due to the light source) and this would be accounted for within the checks remaining within the round?<hr />Yep. The situational modifiers are always taken into account... so if a player is hiding at night behind a tree, and then decides to run out while equipping a torch... well it's probably going to be a lot easier to detect them.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Brian Chung, Technical Artist</font>
About the NPC skins (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=550304&post=4836163&forum=48&highlight=)
Load up appearance.2da
Find the # of the model you want to look as
Fire up NWN with your character
Press ` to bring up the DebugConsole
Type DebugMode 1
Press ` again
Type SetAppearance #
Save your chr and enjoy!
The 1.69 request thread (part 5) (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=550398&post=4837767&forum=42&highlight=)
<hr />I'd like to add my voice to the call for one feature that was mentioned in the previous incarnation of this thread: being able to paste text into the character bio field.<hr />Strange, I use the paste feature to copy character bios all the time during character creation.
Delay Command help (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=550653&post=4838095&forum=47&highlight=)
The problem is DelayCommand() runs outside the scope of the script, so the line: View Post/Code in separate window (viewcodepost.html?post=4838095) Hope that helps.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Brenon Holmes, Programmer</font>
On Stealth and Detect... (http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=549835&post=4835930&forum=42&highlight=)
Unfortunately, I forgot to check up on the active vs. passive ranks that are used... I can confirm what someone mentioned earlier. You do only get half your spot and listen ranks when in passive mode.
More: Blargh. Had all the modifiers typed up, and then went for lunch... stupid forum timeouts http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif .
Listen/Move Silently:
* Automatically cannot detect silenced creatures
* Can only detect invisible (or when you're blind) creatures within the max attack range.
* Cannot hear sanctuaried creatures
* If there is something between you and the target (including creatures) there's a modifier of +5 DC for every 40cm of thickness in outdoor areas
* In indoor areas, if the LOS is blocked and the target is within 4 tiles (dfs search) there's a modifier of +2 DC
* Area listen check modifiers
* +10 DC if you are in combat
* +5 DC if the target is standing still
* -5 DC if you are standing still
* +1 DC for every 3 meters of distance to the target
* Relative size modifiers (Tiny: +8, Small: +4, Medium: 0, Large: -4, Huge: -8)
* Favoured enemy bonuses
Spot/Hide In Shadows:
* Automatically cannot detect invisible creatures
* Automatically cannot detect anything while blinded
* Area spot check modifiers
* During Night, if you do not have a light on you (including weapon lights and darkvision) there is a +5 DC modifier
* During Night, if the target has a light on them, there is a -10 DC modifier
* For stealthed players only, there is a +5 DC if they are in the back arc
* +10 DC if you are in combat
* +5 DC if the target is standing still
* -5 DC if you are standing still
* Relative size modifiers (Tiny: +8, Small: +4, Medium: 0, Large: -4, Huge: -8)
* Favoured enemy bonuses
There might be some additional modifiers, however I can't recall any off the top of my head and without doing an in depth search through the code I probably won't find them all. Hopefully this answers any additional questions you folks had.
More:<hr />Capital work, Holmes! Awesome.
*edit* Is your sig from Rozencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead?<hr />Yep, great movie.
<hr />Yes, and Sir Brenon, can you provide any illumination on Spot being semi-broken itself in the Engine? It has long been held that Spot works irregularly at best, and doesn't always fire when it is supposed to.<hr />Hmm, it *should* work... for enemies there are definetly some irregularities in how often they perform tests, a lot of that has to do with AI scaling and managing how often we have to process their detection code.
For the player, spot detection should work correctly... do you have any examples (anecdotal, or otherwise) of what you mean by semi-broken?
More:<hr />Also, how exactly does Keen Sense works? Is it the same as a permanent active mode without the speed reduction? Is the range 5ft or 10 ft? Frequency of checks?
Thanks in advance.<hr />Keen Sense is exactly that, permanent active detection mode without movement penalties. The frequencey and range of checks are the same as detailed by Stan in his post.
More:<hr />Sorry, but I cannot provide any evidence of it, other that the repeated dogma I've heard over the years. It's entirely possible that it does work as intended.<hr />Ok, well from the quick once over I did earlier it seems to be working as intended... if the concerns were over NPC stealth detection I think it's fairly understandable as the spot checks will scale their frequency based on activity levels and a whole mess of other factors... so it might be fair to say that the frequency isn't incredibly reliable.
More:<hr />Does the same go for Search ranks?<hr />Originally, it was... however it looks like it was changed at some point, which is probably a bug to be honest. It probably should be half, if we're keeping to the intent of active/passive detection.
<hr />Sorry, one other question as I update NWNWiki:
<hr />* In indoor areas, if the LOS is blocked and the target is within 4 tiles (dfs search) there's a modifier of +2 DC<hr />dfs search?<hr />Depth First Search : Click Me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_first_search) [wikipedia.org]
More:<hr />I'm pretty much convinced that standing still gives a 20 foot detection range for traps. Of course, I could just be off my rocker, but here it goes...<hr />Nope, you're correct. There's actually a third mode I just found today (I was bored) that I'd forgotten about, it's a "passive active" mode http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif . It's activated when you're standing still, so you get the benefits of being in active mode when not moving.
The distances for trap checks are 3.33 meters (about 10ft) for passive mode and 6.66 meters (about 21ft) for active. So it sounds about right, I think I may have converted the values incorrectly when I told Stan earlier.
<hr />* Just to make it clear, there is no roll given to the stealthed character.
Simplistically, it's detector + roll vs Stealth rank + DC modifiers.
Is that correct?<hr />It's a contested roll, the stealthed character uses their cached stealth rolls versus the detector's cached detection rolls (all with applicable modifiers for both characters).
<hr />* The maximum skill rank for Hide and Move silently is 127 according to the character sheet. Can DC modifiers such as size and light make that DC for a detector go above 127?
* Similarly, would a person with 127 spot in active detect mode still get a roll of 1d20? (Say to detect a 135 hide DC attacker)
ie is there a glass ceiling for detectors?<hr />The only limit for skill ranks + modifiers is probably the limit of the data storage for it... so, MAXINT (2,147,483,647). DC modifiers will always apply, there isn't any ceiling.
<hr />Quote: * "Area spot check modifiers"
Can you quickly outline what these are?
(If I had to guess, it sounds like Ranger/Druid wilderness bonus (+4 Hide/ms). But to my knowledge, thats added to the character's skill ranks, and therefore shouldn't be appearing in the DC modifiers.)
Many thanks.<hr />On the area in the editor there should be a field where you can apply area modifiers to spot and listen checks (positive or negative). The wilderness bonuses are built into the skill ranks, I believe, and so are indirectly taken into account.
<hr />I've got a quick question to see if I understand the stealth checks correctly...
This would mean that if there were no changes in the applicable modifiers then the same roll, ranks and modifiers would be checked 30 times for each stealth/detect dyad (ie: the exact same outcome 30 times per round). If you have player X hiding, and player Y detecting. They both get a roll in a round, then those rolls (the same rolls) along with skill ranks and modifiers are compared 30 times within the round.<hr />Yes, except it's very unlikely that both charater's timers are synchronised. So another player could be recomputing their rolls at any point during your timer.
<hr />Quote: If this is the way it works (and it seems to based on the details provided), are the modifiers adjusted between checks? If for example, X (who is hiding) equips a light after the roll for the round, his roll result and his skill ranks would remain unchanged, but the applicable modifiers would change (due to the light source) and this would be accounted for within the checks remaining within the round?<hr />Yep. The situational modifiers are always taken into account... so if a player is hiding at night behind a tree, and then decides to run out while equipping a torch... well it's probably going to be a lot easier to detect them.