chevalier
Wed, 15th Aug '07, 5:14pm
Here are today's Neverwinter Nights 2 forum highlights, collected by NWVault (http://nwvault.ign.com). Please take into account that these are only single parts of various threads and should not be taken out of context. Bear in mind also that the posts presented here are copied as-is, and that any bad spelling and grammar does not get corrected on our end.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Rob McGinnis</font>
Custom skills.... again (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=563468&post=5204291&forum=115&highlight=)
<hr /><hr />We watch... and lurk.
Many people have already created custom skills.<hr />Rob, they are hardcoded. I can show discipline in the game without changing the skills.2da.. and you know, in REMOVED column discipline has 1.
Please, let us know if Rich is still focusing on:
UIButton_Input_SkillIncrease()
UIButton_Input_SkillDecrease()
UIButton_Input_ShowSkillDesc()
UIPane_OnUpdate_UpdateSkill()<hr />Yep, I found that out.
We are currently discussing some options to help with nicethugbert's proposal for feat and skill hooking.
Patch 1.07 question - hak/tlk loading (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579357&post=5204306&forum=118&highlight=)
<hr />I hear that 1.07 is the MP fix. Now, if this is not in the MP fix then it seems we may never have this and we have always wanted this and expected it from NWN2. We hope our expectations will not be dashed, again.
It is one of the many highly visible features that says NWN2 succeeds NWN1, NWN2 > NWN1. Which is the reason we wanted NWN2.
Yes, NWN2 does have new features and improvements over NWN1. But, how are we supposed to see the less visible if the more visible is not there? See what I mean?<hr />1.07, from the start, has had the DM client at the center. It was never intended to be an MP-focused update.
One of the things that has been an impediment to the MP fixes (transition crashes) has been the lack of data. We could never replicate the environments you guys have, so we have had to rely on feedback from the various PW admins/owners out there.
Luckily, when Dragon Coast came online, they were willing to experiment a bit and have been helping out with the collection of network data. We have also gotten some help from some great community members. The bad news is, we received the data after code lock on 1.07, and well into the QA process.
We want to put the MP issues into the focus of the patches after 1.07 - they should come out around the same time as MoTB, but will not require MoTB to be used.
As for the subject of this thread, hak/tlk loading before character creation are in the plans, but are of a lower priority. I know it's something Rich, our lead programmer, really wants to do.. but we can't do this without fixing some other issues first.
New MOTB IGN Interview (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579526&post=5204313&forum=121&highlight=)
<hr />now i dont mean to be the kill-joy but did anyone else notice he didn't mention anything about assassin, Blackguard, etc spellbooks? or more fleshed out ranger/pally spells?
doesn't sound like they added them.
that sucks.<hr />It's too late for the expansion for what I am going to say...
But, if you start a thread each for ranger and blackguard spells you want to see, we'll take a look at it.
More: (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579526&post=5204320&forum=121&highlight=)<hr />Sorry to be the naysayer, but I remain sceptic to say the least.
Alot of the content of this interview, was blured between the lines of what has already been done in patches and actual expantion improvements.<hr />Yes because, as we said from the start, we wanted to release as much of the expansion changes to the engine as early as possible. That way you benefit from them early. Though, this does not mean we have released all of the changes. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif
<hr />The AI by evenflw, for example. (which should have been tony k's in the first place.)<hr />Actually, when we looked at evenflw's AI, it was the only one out there. TonyK's was not NWN2-ready yet. even with all that, I think evenflw's AI was great. It takes a lot of work to code AI. I wouldn't take that away from him.
<hr />I really wish they would get off this realm specific mentality, I know this is a Forgotten realms game, but it is also a toolset for creating D&D adventures, most people will play the OC a couple of times and then move on to other things like PW and player modules, which are more often than not, not based in Faerun.<hr />Bolded section says it all. It's not a D&D game, it's a Forgotten Realms game.
Too much overuse of knock-backs in chapter 3 (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579988&post=5205217&forum=109&highlight=)
There is also a change for this in the upcoming 1.07 patch.
More: (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579988&post=5206150&forum=109&highlight=)<hr /><hr />Announced a long time ago. They're giving it a 2-round cooldown, whether you consider that "fixed" or not is up to you.<hr />So, any character without Discipline will be knocked on their rump repeatedly...still. Wonderful.<hr />Don't count your knockdowns before they're... errmm... down?
More: (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579988&post=5206418&forum=109&highlight=) Ok, I'll give away the whole surprise:
Knockdown will have two changes to it. The first change is that it will get a two-round cooldown. That will be in 1.07.
The other part, which may not have made the cutoff for 1.07 (but I think it did), is that knockdown will require a touch attack.
camera angles in neverwinter nights (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579975&post=5205222&forum=109&highlight=)
There is an option to adjust the speed of the mouse in the options menu. fiddling with that may help a bit.
Also, make sure you are using each camera mode for the right view. ie: the top down view is meant to be a top down view.
NWN2 Fan Art Contest! (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=569235&post=5206241&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr />There is a likely date for results?<hr />Very soon. We are trying to get the patch out ATM, so that doesn't leave much time.
Wingless Dragons (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=580069&post=5206390&forum=113&highlight=)
I believe you can do this by creating a new creature in the toolset, then give it the appearance of a dragon. Not 100% sure - actually a total guess, but it may work.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">J.E. Sawyer, Lead Designer</font>
New MOTB IGN Interview (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579526&post=5204237&forum=121&highlight=)
<hr />The new race, is along the same lines, very realm specific and practically worthless outside faerun.<hr />Genasi actually originated in the Planescape setting. They were also the races mentioned most often by players when Shane polled people on what they would like to see in an expansion.
Custom spell lists (e.g. blackguard and assassin) require a lot of re-engineering to work properly. That isn't to say that custom spell lists aren't ever going to happen, but like the archmage, the required work load to implement them was out of scope for this project.
More: (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579526&post=5204692&forum=121&highlight=)<hr />The answer is: 'No spellbook for BG and assiassian<hr />I already analyzed what would be required to do this and spelled it out in these forums. It's a pretty large amount of work if you want it to be "done right" so modders can make their own classes with custom spell lists. Since then, Andy Woo analyzed it even further and determined there are other issues to consider, such as how bonus spellcaster level feats are granted via prestige classes.
<hr />Quote: no more class per character<hr />Do so many people really need more than four character classes that this should be a focus?
<hr />Quote: no prestige class epic level etc.<hr />Honestly, that's new content for about a dozen classes.
<hr />Quote: However, we have ADEQUATE TIME to improve our graphic and animation even better water effect<hr />These are improvements which benefit all players, even if they don't buy the expansion, since performance improvements are patched.
<hr />Quote: more good-looking race (although not all of them are interesting)<hr />Genasi were by far the most popular racial choice when these boards were polled.
<hr />Quote: more prestige class (although they also would have their difference from the rule due to lack of time)<hr />I'm not sure what prestige class abilities you're referring to, but I sure hope it doesn't have anything to do with Red Wizard Circle Magic. Because seriously, that's barely even used in pen and paper and I can't even imagine how often it would be used in any but the narrowest CRPG campaign.
I mean, I use it as a DM to sucker punch parties, but I've never heard of a player group using it. You'd basically have to play a full party of high-level Red Wizards to attempt it.
<hr />Quote: Congrulation developer, I am sure your expansion will have a good sale number. However, you should be looking forwards for the complaint after those player has played the expansion.<hr />We try to be very forthright about what we are doing and why. I believe players have enough information to make their choice to buy the expansion or not. It's unfortunate if you don't think we added/fixed/changed the right things, but there's no practical way for us to address the desires of every player.
More: (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579526&post=5205499&forum=121&highlight=)<hr />1) Yes, it has large amount of work for your development team to do for adding spellbook for BG and assassian. However, this request has been there since NWN2 has been published, not only in recent 1-2 month.<hr />And the amount of work it would take to implement was the same then as it is now.
<hr />Quote: Your team would like to use your manpower in making the new race which is great looking, rather than hearing from these voice of correction...<hr />The racial abilities of genasi, which are implemented by scripters, and the appearance of genasi, which are implemented by artists, are not the equivalent of programmers overhauling the spell data system.
<hr />Quote: Moreover, I also noted that this request was present during the developement of NWN2. Why didn't your team do the right thing at the start?<hr />I wasn't here at the beginning of NWN2's development, so I can't honestly answer that.
<hr />Quote: 2) in D&D rule, one of its feature is the freedom for your character development. IT IS THE RULE OF D&D, which should be respected and implied in the game if you are making a D&D game, no matter whether you think how minor proportion of player would think it is necessary.<hr />Game development doesn't work that way. Bending over backwards to make rule changes that only a tiny percentage of players, builders, or modders will appreciate isn't a good use of time or resources.
<hr />Quote: 3) Isn't it some problem for a D&D game involving epic level and feat but no epic level of prestige class? Again, yes, as lots of content has to be done for this, your team decide to neglect them.<hr />Personally, I didn't really notice the absence of epic prestige class levels when I played through MotB.
<hr />Quote: 4) Yes, having better graphic and animation is benefical to all player--in their visual enjoyment of the game. However, do you think better graphic and amination can improve the enjoyment of the whole gameplay?<hr />I think that having the game run at a solid framerate -- which is where almost all of the programming focus for the renderer went -- most certainly benefits all players. I'd say poor performance is the number one complaint that players have had about NWN2.
<hr />Quote: 5) It is good to hear that some property of prestige class is AGAIN neglected by the developer just because they think it is 'unimportant' and 'not used by most player'. I think that maybe the spellbook of BG and asssassian are also in these categories at the very beginning.<hr />How many people do you know that have ever used Circle Magic in any capacity, even in pen-and-paper? It requires a minimum of two Red Wizards, one of whom is at least 5th level, and an hour of preparation time.
When you read about how Circle Magic works, the extremely tiny number of people who could qualify to use it, plus all of the GUI work required for individual members to devote spells to the circle leader, make it a poor feature choice.
<hr />Quote: 6) I agreed that certainly development team cannot satisfy the desire of all players. However, I think that the rule of D&D should be respected if you are making a D&D game.<hr />We are making computer games based on the D&D ruleset. Even if we were to assume that every D&D rule in the current edition is "more perfect" than all of the D&D rules they replaced in previous editions, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to try shoving it straight into a computer game format.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Charles Mead, NWN2 Lead Scripter</font>
Scripted Waypoints (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=512800&post=5205576&forum=114&highlight=)
Have a question about Scripted Waypoints? Post it here! I'll be watching this thread.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Rob McGinnis</font>
Custom skills.... again (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=563468&post=5204291&forum=115&highlight=)
<hr /><hr />We watch... and lurk.
Many people have already created custom skills.<hr />Rob, they are hardcoded. I can show discipline in the game without changing the skills.2da.. and you know, in REMOVED column discipline has 1.
Please, let us know if Rich is still focusing on:
UIButton_Input_SkillIncrease()
UIButton_Input_SkillDecrease()
UIButton_Input_ShowSkillDesc()
UIPane_OnUpdate_UpdateSkill()<hr />Yep, I found that out.
We are currently discussing some options to help with nicethugbert's proposal for feat and skill hooking.
Patch 1.07 question - hak/tlk loading (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579357&post=5204306&forum=118&highlight=)
<hr />I hear that 1.07 is the MP fix. Now, if this is not in the MP fix then it seems we may never have this and we have always wanted this and expected it from NWN2. We hope our expectations will not be dashed, again.
It is one of the many highly visible features that says NWN2 succeeds NWN1, NWN2 > NWN1. Which is the reason we wanted NWN2.
Yes, NWN2 does have new features and improvements over NWN1. But, how are we supposed to see the less visible if the more visible is not there? See what I mean?<hr />1.07, from the start, has had the DM client at the center. It was never intended to be an MP-focused update.
One of the things that has been an impediment to the MP fixes (transition crashes) has been the lack of data. We could never replicate the environments you guys have, so we have had to rely on feedback from the various PW admins/owners out there.
Luckily, when Dragon Coast came online, they were willing to experiment a bit and have been helping out with the collection of network data. We have also gotten some help from some great community members. The bad news is, we received the data after code lock on 1.07, and well into the QA process.
We want to put the MP issues into the focus of the patches after 1.07 - they should come out around the same time as MoTB, but will not require MoTB to be used.
As for the subject of this thread, hak/tlk loading before character creation are in the plans, but are of a lower priority. I know it's something Rich, our lead programmer, really wants to do.. but we can't do this without fixing some other issues first.
New MOTB IGN Interview (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579526&post=5204313&forum=121&highlight=)
<hr />now i dont mean to be the kill-joy but did anyone else notice he didn't mention anything about assassin, Blackguard, etc spellbooks? or more fleshed out ranger/pally spells?
doesn't sound like they added them.
that sucks.<hr />It's too late for the expansion for what I am going to say...
But, if you start a thread each for ranger and blackguard spells you want to see, we'll take a look at it.
More: (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579526&post=5204320&forum=121&highlight=)<hr />Sorry to be the naysayer, but I remain sceptic to say the least.
Alot of the content of this interview, was blured between the lines of what has already been done in patches and actual expantion improvements.<hr />Yes because, as we said from the start, we wanted to release as much of the expansion changes to the engine as early as possible. That way you benefit from them early. Though, this does not mean we have released all of the changes. http://forums.bioware.com/_commonext/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif
<hr />The AI by evenflw, for example. (which should have been tony k's in the first place.)<hr />Actually, when we looked at evenflw's AI, it was the only one out there. TonyK's was not NWN2-ready yet. even with all that, I think evenflw's AI was great. It takes a lot of work to code AI. I wouldn't take that away from him.
<hr />I really wish they would get off this realm specific mentality, I know this is a Forgotten realms game, but it is also a toolset for creating D&D adventures, most people will play the OC a couple of times and then move on to other things like PW and player modules, which are more often than not, not based in Faerun.<hr />Bolded section says it all. It's not a D&D game, it's a Forgotten Realms game.
Too much overuse of knock-backs in chapter 3 (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579988&post=5205217&forum=109&highlight=)
There is also a change for this in the upcoming 1.07 patch.
More: (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579988&post=5206150&forum=109&highlight=)<hr /><hr />Announced a long time ago. They're giving it a 2-round cooldown, whether you consider that "fixed" or not is up to you.<hr />So, any character without Discipline will be knocked on their rump repeatedly...still. Wonderful.<hr />Don't count your knockdowns before they're... errmm... down?
More: (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579988&post=5206418&forum=109&highlight=) Ok, I'll give away the whole surprise:
Knockdown will have two changes to it. The first change is that it will get a two-round cooldown. That will be in 1.07.
The other part, which may not have made the cutoff for 1.07 (but I think it did), is that knockdown will require a touch attack.
camera angles in neverwinter nights (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579975&post=5205222&forum=109&highlight=)
There is an option to adjust the speed of the mouse in the options menu. fiddling with that may help a bit.
Also, make sure you are using each camera mode for the right view. ie: the top down view is meant to be a top down view.
NWN2 Fan Art Contest! (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=569235&post=5206241&forum=109&highlight=)
<hr />There is a likely date for results?<hr />Very soon. We are trying to get the patch out ATM, so that doesn't leave much time.
Wingless Dragons (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=580069&post=5206390&forum=113&highlight=)
I believe you can do this by creating a new creature in the toolset, then give it the appearance of a dragon. Not 100% sure - actually a total guess, but it may work.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">J.E. Sawyer, Lead Designer</font>
New MOTB IGN Interview (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579526&post=5204237&forum=121&highlight=)
<hr />The new race, is along the same lines, very realm specific and practically worthless outside faerun.<hr />Genasi actually originated in the Planescape setting. They were also the races mentioned most often by players when Shane polled people on what they would like to see in an expansion.
Custom spell lists (e.g. blackguard and assassin) require a lot of re-engineering to work properly. That isn't to say that custom spell lists aren't ever going to happen, but like the archmage, the required work load to implement them was out of scope for this project.
More: (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579526&post=5204692&forum=121&highlight=)<hr />The answer is: 'No spellbook for BG and assiassian<hr />I already analyzed what would be required to do this and spelled it out in these forums. It's a pretty large amount of work if you want it to be "done right" so modders can make their own classes with custom spell lists. Since then, Andy Woo analyzed it even further and determined there are other issues to consider, such as how bonus spellcaster level feats are granted via prestige classes.
<hr />Quote: no more class per character<hr />Do so many people really need more than four character classes that this should be a focus?
<hr />Quote: no prestige class epic level etc.<hr />Honestly, that's new content for about a dozen classes.
<hr />Quote: However, we have ADEQUATE TIME to improve our graphic and animation even better water effect<hr />These are improvements which benefit all players, even if they don't buy the expansion, since performance improvements are patched.
<hr />Quote: more good-looking race (although not all of them are interesting)<hr />Genasi were by far the most popular racial choice when these boards were polled.
<hr />Quote: more prestige class (although they also would have their difference from the rule due to lack of time)<hr />I'm not sure what prestige class abilities you're referring to, but I sure hope it doesn't have anything to do with Red Wizard Circle Magic. Because seriously, that's barely even used in pen and paper and I can't even imagine how often it would be used in any but the narrowest CRPG campaign.
I mean, I use it as a DM to sucker punch parties, but I've never heard of a player group using it. You'd basically have to play a full party of high-level Red Wizards to attempt it.
<hr />Quote: Congrulation developer, I am sure your expansion will have a good sale number. However, you should be looking forwards for the complaint after those player has played the expansion.<hr />We try to be very forthright about what we are doing and why. I believe players have enough information to make their choice to buy the expansion or not. It's unfortunate if you don't think we added/fixed/changed the right things, but there's no practical way for us to address the desires of every player.
More: (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=579526&post=5205499&forum=121&highlight=)<hr />1) Yes, it has large amount of work for your development team to do for adding spellbook for BG and assassian. However, this request has been there since NWN2 has been published, not only in recent 1-2 month.<hr />And the amount of work it would take to implement was the same then as it is now.
<hr />Quote: Your team would like to use your manpower in making the new race which is great looking, rather than hearing from these voice of correction...<hr />The racial abilities of genasi, which are implemented by scripters, and the appearance of genasi, which are implemented by artists, are not the equivalent of programmers overhauling the spell data system.
<hr />Quote: Moreover, I also noted that this request was present during the developement of NWN2. Why didn't your team do the right thing at the start?<hr />I wasn't here at the beginning of NWN2's development, so I can't honestly answer that.
<hr />Quote: 2) in D&D rule, one of its feature is the freedom for your character development. IT IS THE RULE OF D&D, which should be respected and implied in the game if you are making a D&D game, no matter whether you think how minor proportion of player would think it is necessary.<hr />Game development doesn't work that way. Bending over backwards to make rule changes that only a tiny percentage of players, builders, or modders will appreciate isn't a good use of time or resources.
<hr />Quote: 3) Isn't it some problem for a D&D game involving epic level and feat but no epic level of prestige class? Again, yes, as lots of content has to be done for this, your team decide to neglect them.<hr />Personally, I didn't really notice the absence of epic prestige class levels when I played through MotB.
<hr />Quote: 4) Yes, having better graphic and animation is benefical to all player--in their visual enjoyment of the game. However, do you think better graphic and amination can improve the enjoyment of the whole gameplay?<hr />I think that having the game run at a solid framerate -- which is where almost all of the programming focus for the renderer went -- most certainly benefits all players. I'd say poor performance is the number one complaint that players have had about NWN2.
<hr />Quote: 5) It is good to hear that some property of prestige class is AGAIN neglected by the developer just because they think it is 'unimportant' and 'not used by most player'. I think that maybe the spellbook of BG and asssassian are also in these categories at the very beginning.<hr />How many people do you know that have ever used Circle Magic in any capacity, even in pen-and-paper? It requires a minimum of two Red Wizards, one of whom is at least 5th level, and an hour of preparation time.
When you read about how Circle Magic works, the extremely tiny number of people who could qualify to use it, plus all of the GUI work required for individual members to devote spells to the circle leader, make it a poor feature choice.
<hr />Quote: 6) I agreed that certainly development team cannot satisfy the desire of all players. However, I think that the rule of D&D should be respected if you are making a D&D game.<hr />We are making computer games based on the D&D ruleset. Even if we were to assume that every D&D rule in the current edition is "more perfect" than all of the D&D rules they replaced in previous editions, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to try shoving it straight into a computer game format.
<font size="3" face="Verdana, Arial" color="#cc6600">Charles Mead, NWN2 Lead Scripter</font>
Scripted Waypoints (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewpost.html?topic=512800&post=5205576&forum=114&highlight=)
Have a question about Scripted Waypoints? Post it here! I'll be watching this thread.