No word about Ribbentropp-Molotov. No word about Stalin having been Hitler's ally until 1942. No word about invading Poland on Sept. the 17th 1939. No word about forcibly establishing communism in Eastern Europe. About millions of people exterminated by the stalinist invaders and decades of occupation. This is one.

Then, the so called President of Poland, Kwaśniewski - a former commie and one who showed up drunk in Katyn for the ceremony in which 12000 Polish military officers treacherously murdered by the Soviets were being honoured - walks humbly in the fourth row. Way behind anyone important, way behind representatives from the former Axis countries.

No word about Polish soldiers. They were on all fronts. Some on the West, some on the East -- i.e. when Stalin let them out of his prisoners and gave them weapons to fight for him. At least 600 thousand soldiers. All paid along with the equipment from the national tresury saved back in Sept. 1939. Not from charity money from allies.

Just a medal for the last commie regime boss (Jaruzelski) who is now a general but was a lieutenant back in WW2. That is, after being let out of a Soviet prison where he ended up for being a class enemy (landed gentry background) and joined the commies.

People saluting the freaking hammer and sickle, which are as abhorrent as the swastika, and the red standard which she be dropping living red blood. And a Stalin-faced train. Wonder how many of those very people lost relatives in Soviet camps. What is the Polish president doing there? Thanking for "liberation" and 50 years of "fraternal aid"?

I think there have been quite a lot of talk about this, the Baltic countries boycotted the whole celebration. Those little countries got spine.

Well Stalin was not exactly Hitler's ally no more than Finland was an ally of the Soviet Union when we signed a non agression pact with them that they chose not to honour.

I actually thought about making a thread of this yesterday but I forgot all about it. The truthfullness of the history education in Russia is improving even if it improves very slowly. The Russian view of the baltic states chose to join the Soviet Union is just laughable.

This is a very touchy issue for Russia since they have celebrated this day yearly for fifty years. You can't just expect that to disappear. Even so I must agree that the baltic presidents had a lot of courage not to attend the parade. The Finnish President was there naturally even if we still disagree about a lot of historical issues about the winter war and the continuation war.

Well Stalin was not exactly Hitler's ally no more than Finland was an ally of the Soviet Union when we signed a non agression pact with them that they chose not to honour. So when two countries get together and say, "Alright, you can have half of Poland and I'll take the other half," they're not allies? How does that work?

Stalin: "I'm in no position to face Hitler as of now and the allies hate me as much as him if not more."

Hitler: "Stalin hates the west as much as I do. It would be nice not to have a second front while I deal with the west."

M-R pact was imho just a mutual agreement to buy time. Coldly calculated politics. Neither side expected it to last.

But Soviet=Nazi these days, I guess... "delenda est carthago".

Interestingly, little is said about all those poor, zealous democrats from Eastern Europe allying themselves with Nazi Germany, or about the pogroms taking place in those innocent baltic states (until the Germans came and put some method into it), or about all the freaking Waffen-SS volunteers or all the... ok I'll stop now. Flame away.

That is called an agreement or a pact, not an alliance. Both were quite aware of the ideological differences and the conflict which would eventually errupt. Stalin however was surprised that Germans attacked so soon but he was under no illusion that nazis and commies could live side by side as brothers for all eternety. Besides both Stalin and Hitler made several breachings of the agreement especially in the balkans, but also in the baltic terretory. The relationship with the two countries were far from friendly, they just divided eastern europe for mutual short sighted gain.

Oh, I know they didn't expect it to last, I know it was for convenience only, but still...

I dunno, I guess to my way of thinking, if you divide up another nation with someone, you're allies--even if only for the moment, and only for convenience's sake.

"Stalin hates the west as much as I do. It would be nice not to have a second front while I deal with the west."
*kuch* *kuch* Hitler respected the British Empire, untill the British declared the war.

*kuch* *kuch* Hitler respected the British Empire, untill the British declared the war True, to Hitler, the UK was the ideal fascist state and he in his mind, he followed the brilliant British example of exterminating everything remotely ressembling democracy. But his dream of the fascist triangle Italy-Germany-Great Britain ruling Europe obviously was to some extend adaptable to reality, as his love for England turned to hate, as he realized, that they too were infected with the French disease, republicanism. Or just wouldn't do what he expected a good Aryan to do. And other Nazi's knew way before, whatever they considerations were concerning the "why", that the British wouldn't join the German crusade, even if Hitler thought he got the idea from the English.