View Full Version : Italy Seeks Arrests of 13 U.S. Intelligence Operatives in Alleged Rendition
Sat, 25th Jun '05, 9:24am
Italy Seeks Arrests of 13 U.S. Intelligence Operatives in Alleged Rendition (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/24/AR2005062400484_pf.html).
I wonder what the U.S. would do if Cuba would go and snatch some of the rabid anti-Fidelistas from Florida to whack them ...
What an outrageous violation of national sovereignty! Probably that would provide the excuse for the long wished-for declaration of war on Cuba for the U.S. right wingers. Double standards anyone?
Worse, and something quite worrying IMO, that's how the U.S. deal with *allies* and *friends*, even coalition partners in Iraq. If I was Berlusconi I'd be pissed off, too.
In Germany, a Munich prosecutor is preparing questions to U.S. authorities on the case of a Lebanese-born German who says he was arrested in Macedonia on New Year's Eve 2003 and flown by U.S. agents to a jail in Afghanistan.
Some background: Extraordinary Rendition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition)
Sat, 25th Jun '05, 7:52pm
Ah Rags, your tirades never cease to amuse me. First you assume guilt (and I'm not saying they're not guilty), then you "wonder" what would happen if some hypothetically similar situation happened to the US, then you provide your own speculation on what would happen, and then call your own speculations on your own hypothetical situation a double standard! Priceless! :lol:
Personally, I love this kind of cloak-and-dagger stuff, and I would silmultaneously applaud the security guy who could pull it off on the US while being pissed off that our own security guys allowed it to happen.
If the accusations are true in this case, I personally think it's pretty sweet that these guys did it while Italy's own security forces supposedly had him under surveillance.
Sat, 25th Jun '05, 8:27pm
:shake: Point taken :shake: I am indeed very confident the U.S. did snatch this guy, or assume guilt. I guess the Italians are competent enough to count two and two together and get four in the end, and to do solid research before going public with something like that.
But it doesn't concern you in any way that it was an ally, a friend, the U.S. suckered, as long as they only pull it off in a 'cool' way?
[ June 25, 2005, 20:40: Message edited by: Ragusa ]
Sat, 25th Jun '05, 8:45pm
Well, obviously what they actually came to do comes into play. For example if some operative came into the US to randomly kill people, I wouldn't think it was cool. But if it were some criminal they were seeking, that the US couldn't bother themselves to do anything about, I'd applaud them.
Sat, 25th Jun '05, 8:58pm
Well, nice to hear that.
You mean a guy like Mr. Posada (http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0512/dailyUpdate.html)?
He's the guy I had in mind all along.
Sat, 25th Jun '05, 9:36pm
Yeah, if the Cubans could snatch him, I'd be happy for them, but pretty pissed that our security was poor enough to allow it. :)
Sun, 26th Jun '05, 12:46pm
In Italy, Anger at U.S. Tactics Colors Spy Case (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/26/international/europe/26milan.html?ei=5070&en=5710832fc3dec32b&ex=1120363200&emc=eta1&pagewanted=print) The extraordinary decision by an Italian judge to order the arrest of 13 people linked to the Central Intelligence Agency on charges of kidnapping a terrorism suspect here dramatizes a growing rift between American counterterrorism officials and their counterparts in Europe.
European counterterrorism officials have pursued a policy of building criminal cases against terrorism suspects through surveillance, wire-taps, detective work and the criminal justice system. The United States, however, has frequently used other means since Sept. 11, 2001, including renditions - abducting terror suspects from foreign countries and transporting them for questioning to third countries, some of which are known to use torture.
Those two approaches seem to have collided in the case of an Egyptian cleric, Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr, or Abu Omar, who led a militant mosque in Milan.
By early 2003, the Italian secret police were aggressively pursuing a criminal terrorism case against Mr. Nasr, with the help of American intelligence officials. Italian investigators said they had told the Americans they had strong evidence that he was trying to build a terror recruitment network, possibly aimed for Iraq if the United States went forward with plans to topple Saddam Hussein.
On Feb. 17, 2003, Mr. Nasr disappeared.
When the Italians began investigating, they said, they were startled to find evidence that some of the C.I.A. officers who had been helping them investigate Mr. Nasr were involved in his abduction.
"We do feel quite betrayed that this operation was carried out in our city," a senior Italian investigator said. "We supplied them information about Abu Omar, and then they used that information against us, undermining an entire operation against his terrorist network."As terrorism is an international phenomenon transcending borders the U.S. is dependent on goodwill and information sharing from her allies to fight this threat. That's as simple as it gets.
Do you think the U.S. are all that great that their allies will suck it down forever? The U.S. don't set a precedent that encourages mutual confidence, and in intelligence sharing confidence is everything. The U.S. have demonstrated that they are not thrustworthy.
If the U.S. go and, let's be frank, betray their partners that way, they bite the hand that feeds them -- with fresh intel from the european countries about Islamic extremists -- how long do you think information sharing will continue? Mind, the 9/11 cell was in Hamburg.
It's another example of how the U.S. managed to alienate yet another friend and ally, once again in case of Italy - after shooting their top Middle East specialist Nicola Calipari (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4323315.stm) in Iraq.
Only this time they can't claim it was an unfortunate accident.