This is my first post at SP after many months of reading, so: hello.

I was wondering if anyone finds it reasonable to approach playing the game with a "hardcore" slant (if I might be forgiven a bit of Diablo II terminology). For those that do not know, in this context "hardcore" means achieving success in the game with no deaths. The Save/Load functions are used only to resume your place if you quit (or to cope with annoying glitches such as monsters disappearing mid-fight). I'm also going to be going mostly solo: I'll take along a romantic interest, and I always take Imoen, but I will single-handedly dispatch all foes, and use the other two as pack mules and for an occasional buff or heal.

I thought that I might give it a go with my latest character, but to my chagrin, I died in Irencius's dungeon to one of the lesser clay golems, who shaved off my remaining 30 (of 42) HPs with a single blow.

It's worth noting that I most likely could have avoided this premature end to my experiment if I had used an oil of speed for the encounter, as that would have given me the footspeed needed to outrun the golem and restealth around a corner. But the whole incident got me wondering if success without death is a reasonable goal for an experienced player in this particular game.

I tried to solo too in "hardcore mode". But all these stunnings etc really is a gamble. Although the chances of failure if you build the right character is small, eventually you'll get unlucky. And you'll curse the game far away. You have to at least have two persons in your party to keep a decent chance. A really tough Dwarven beserker/barbarian and then play defensive with lots of NPC's in your team up in front, is one rough but workable way around. A very good fighter/mage/thief with bonus merchant stuff does have a chance of crawling through with lots of NPCs.

Solo Hardcore is pretty much a matter of luck in my experience. But I think the idea of "hardcore" is a great one. Good luck with more tries.

That it is, a matter of luck I mean. What with all the stun, dominate, hold and death spells & effects, you'll always lose at some point no matter how well prepared you are.

Welcome here at SP, first of all :wave:
I have been toying with the idea of going "hardcore" through the game. I think it is a matter of luck mostly. The main problem is not, IMO, keeping up your hp, but making your saves. And you are going to miss one at some point...
That said, let us know if you will try again, and how far you will get.
And best of luck !

What might be a more reasonable expectation would be to take a full party of 5 NPC's along with you, and say only if MY PC dies, the game ends. You would be allowed to resurrect any of the party's NPC's.

Luck will still come into play, although there are a few things you can do to eliminate some of the more annoying ways to die. Certainly a barbarian or beserker will prevent you from dying because you are confused, scared, held, etc. Also, picking a class like a dwarf would help because of their better saving throws. You can't get lucky all the time, so you have to tip the scales in your favor so you don't have to get lucky very often.

Hello -

What might be a more reasonable expectation would be to take a full party of 5 NPC's along with you, and say only if MY PC dies, the game ends. You would be allowed to resurrect any of the party's NPC's. Although this may very well be true, I enjoy the game much more with few or one active players. When I play with a big party, I always feel as if I am leaving unexplored many facets of the various classes with which I am playing. In fact, often the sheer variety that is at my disposal in a big party can lead me to forget options. I'll finish a fight that I struggled with and then think, "darn, I forgot that x character had x ability that would have worked perfectly in that situation."

As long as the "hardcore" style interests people, here is another idea to consider: In D2 (the game from which I borrowed the "hardcore" concept), it is deemed perfectly acceptable to exit a game suddenly if you get into a tight spot. If you manage to quit in time (prior to death occurring), no departure from the hardcore ethos has occurred, and in fact you might be congratulated for your fast reflexes and good assessment of the situation.

Should this characteristic transfer over into "hardcore" BG2? My initial gut reaction is to say no, because such an allowance leads to easy exploitation of the save/load mechanism (e.g., "I used too many potions/used too many spells/lost too many HPs/etc. in that fight so I am going to do it again"). Even if you opted to use it only to avoid death instead of to attain slightly more favorable outcomes, it could still be abused (e.g., you see a finger of death on its way and immediately reload).

So, is there any step one could take to recreate in BG2 the safety equivalent of D2's "save and exit" escape mechanism without introducing cheesiness and exploitation?

I realise that I might be going against the accepted "norm" for D2, but I always felt that the "exit before dying" tactic was cheesy. In D2, you can't save your game, so you can't do the save/reload routine; the D2 tactic IMHO was just a way to try to get around that, and also to avoid the gold/XP penalties for dying. And in BG2, there would be nothing to be gained from employing the D2 tactic since in any case you are reloading your saved game anyway.

I agree with your comments about missing things with a large party though. Hardcore soloing just sounds to "iffy" based on the random save rolls.

Save and exit definitely sounds cheesy to me.
I mean, trying to "hardcore" this game is a quest of epic proportions, so IMO you should try it "clean". So, here is my suggestion: in minor battles you are allowed to leave the area all the way to the world map (I believe this way enemies will not follow you, but correct me if I am wrong). There is no shame about it, as you cannot allow some minor guy to get in the way of your divinity. In major battles, however, you'll have to stand and fight.
How does this sound to you ?

Hello -

How does this sound to you ? @Kralizek:

That sounds very good, actually. Map switching offers a comparable exit in many situations, and is something I hadn't thought of since I haven't really used it as such in the past.

I've picked a new class variation for my next attempt, and will hopefully get further than Irenicus's clay golems. :rolleyes: I'll update the thread with my progress periodically.

May the dices be with you - always!

Keep us updated with your progress !
Please post some strategies and though spots as well... who knows, someone might try to emulate you ;)
And let the save rolls be with you !

This might be a bit late, but it follows up on Aldeth’s suggestion. (I might try this one myself when I’ve finished my current game.) It assumes that you don’t want a full-sized party (because you don’t want to “forget options”), but you aren’t necessarily insisting on having one character do all the work. It also gives some “forgiveness” for the randomness of the save rolls.

Create two characters in multi-player. This way, you can tailor-make both characters. You only need to keep the protagonist alive. (Resurrection spells could be used on the other one. If he/she can’t be resurrected, you must create another new one, or go without.) So if it were me, I’d have my protagonist as someone who isn’t usually going to be in the thick of things (ranged attacker or spell-caster), and the other one would be a tank. Then you could add the NPC’s as you describe. Therefore, at most, you would have 4 characters. If you want, you could even keep the NPC’s out of the action other than to buff/heal (as was your original intent), so you’d really only have 2 active characters (although personally, I would be inclined to let them participate fully). And you wouldn’t be allowed to use Kralizek’s world map idea. (I’m not sure how much this would really help anyway, since most of the “minor” battles that you could reasonably escape via the world map would be the ones encountered when travelling between areas (“you have been waylaid by enemies and must defend yourself”), and you aren’t allowed to use this technique for non-minor battles, which is where you are more likely to get into trouble. Of course, I guess it depends on your definition of “minor”.)

This is a “backup” plan in case the method you are going with doesn’t work out (but I hope it does :) ).

Thoughts?

Hello -

Of course, I guess it depends on your definition of “minor”. Don't forget you are talking to a guy whose first attempt ended at Irenicus's lesser clay golems. :D

Thoughts? A somewhat less pure, though I suppose ultimately more feasible, approach. I think that given the hardcore theme, resurrecting is taboo. And shielding my protagonist from the fight by hiding behind others is less satisfying.

That said, I think you've formulated a decent consolation ruleset for when my current attempt inevitably fails. :)

Of course, I guess it depends on your definition of “minor” You are right here. However, I believe that from the PC point of view most battles are minor, i.e. not directly involved with his destiny. Therefore, for example, you would be allowed to escape from most of the early battles, like the slaver quest, most quests in Athkatla, Umar Hills,... Going after Bodhi would qualify as major, and therefore the whole crypt crawling business would be handled "properly". Most of the Underdark would qualify as major as well, since you are trying to follow Irenicus down there. Guess I said too much already, but I felt I should expand my concept ;)
As for your idea, I side with Macready. An interesting approach, that could ultimately be successful, which however bites into the satisfaction of soloing hardcore.
Here is another one: your are allowed to have only one companion at a time (since you have to take Imoen with you in the beginning why not carry on the formula ?). Resurrection is not allowed, so your options would be restricted. Also, you cannot change them unless they die. This way you might have more options to play with and more bodies to throw around. How do you like the idea ?

Don't forget you are talking to a guy whose first attempt ended at Irenicus's lesser clay golems I think you've formulated a decent consolation ruleset for when my current attempt inevitably fails :lol: at both!

I agree my suggestion is less than perfect, but all kidding aside, I think that Macready's current attempt is destined for failure simply because of the rolls. I agree however that resurrection should not be an option (poor thinking on my part).

Kralizek, if I understand your idea, you would be going with a 2 person party - protagonist and NPC - and the NPC would be allowed to fully participate. Slightly different from Macready's original approach in that: 1) he would have had up to 2 NPC's, but 2) neither one can do anything other than buff or heal. I can't speak for Macready, but I don't have a problem with it. Obviously more difficult than my idea, but I guess that's the whole point.

Yes. The reasoning behind it comes from when I tried to beat the game soloing. I found that the most reloads happened in the early parts of the game. At that point your saves are still way too bad and against many opponents it is too easy to get cornered. As the game progresses the gap between you and the enemies first closes and than goes to your advantage. Having one companion allowed could provide you with some fodder in the beginning (i.e. the PC wouldn't have to be the one rolling all the dices), and as the game progresses you could be provided with some buffing. Furthermore it would account for some extra strategic thinking, e.g. which NPC to use when. I agree it strays from the original idea, but I guess this is the moment to throw suggestions around.
Oh, and I have a question for Macready: since you came up with the idea, and if you still want to do it (please note that I did not use "try" :thumb: ), what class would your PC be ? I guess the honour belongs to you.
Also, please post the name of the hero, so that we can all start connect with him. :)

ooh, save vs death *fails*

that was 14+ hours well spent.. or was it? Maybe I should.. nah.. the principle.. argh what the hell, screw the principle *clicks reload*

:lol:
well, I believe the first few tries might be motivating enough not to reload.

Alternatively other people could try "hardcoring" the game and post here how far they went before dying. After the first death,of course, they would be allowed to use the "cheesiest of cheese" and reload. :shake:

Hello -

ooh, save vs death *fails*

that was 14+ hours well spent.. or was it? Maybe I should.. nah.. the principle.. argh what the hell, screw the principle *clicks reload* Alternatively other people could try "hardcoring" the game and post here how far they went before dying. After the first death,of course, they would be allowed to use the "cheesiest of cheese" and reload. I may finish the game up no matter what happens. In D2, hardcore death is permanent and irreversible; in this little project, lack of death is a status symbol, and the first death will simply forfeit that status. I'll decide if and when that happens whether to bring the current character to fruition or try again.

With regards to both Splunge and Kralizek's ideas for slightly more forgiving rulesets, I like them both. I think they are very viable candidates for hardcore playing. In the present instance, though, I am being ambitious and going "mostly" solo.

So what does "mostly" mean?

* All damage against enemies will be caused by the protagonist (and hence, all enemy deaths). The one caveat to this rule is summoned creatures -- I'll be using them.

* Companion NPCs are not allowed to cast spells at opponents.

* Buffs and heals are allowed, but I'm not sure if I will allow them to take place in combat. Buffing before a fight is OK with me, and healing or curing after all foes are vanquished is OK with me, but I haven't decided whether combat healing/curing/etc. is OK. Thoughts welcome.

* I'll be taking Imoen (just because it feels wrong not to) and a romantic interest (undecided at present but I'll need to pick soon -- Viconia is tempting because of her class purity and buff/healing abilities). Normal practice will be to keep these folks invis'ed at all times. I'm not sure what to do about them being sucked into a fight (i.e., monsters that see invis) -- is resurrecting these pack mules OK?

As for the protagonist:

He's named...Macready! (surprise, surprise) after a character in a favorite movie. I usually can't stay away from thief types when I'm soloing, and for this outing I finally selected a halfling swashbuckler (as opposed to the conjurer/thief dual-class Macready who died so ignominously to the golems).

I spent an unabashed twenty minutes rolling for stats, and finally rolled 92 and settled on:

STR - 10
DEX - 19
CON - 18
INT - 10
WIS - 17
CHA - 18

Since STR is capped at an unacceptable 17 for a halfling, thus introducing an equipment dependency, I quickly decided to cannibalize natural STR to favor other stats. The 18 CON was for that last bonus point to saving throws that halflings with high CON receive, and the 18 CHA seemed fitting since swashbucklers are supposedly "the epitome of wit and grace," or something like that. The last stat to be favored was a toss-up, but it felt right to be more wise than intelligent, so I raised WIS to the cap of 17.

After this, an excellent omen! I am playing by core rules, so seeing how many hitpoints you start with is always cause to hold your breath. My level 8 swashbuckler started with... 63 out of a possible 64 hitpoints! That's right, no fooling, no funny business...I got an almost unheard of roll -- much better than the 42 HPs of the conjurer/thief predecessor.

I am pleased to say that I survived Irenicus's dungeon intact, and disposed of almost every foe in there. The only hostile creatures I did not kill were: the assassin who confronts the two duergar in the wand hall (I removed the magic missile wand before he could trigger it, but he died anyway -- it must be a scripted death), the escaped clone's assassin foe (she killed him), and two of the three assassins facing Ulvaryl (she finished off two rather quickly). Ulvaryl was the best kill I had -- softened up by the mage assassin's flame arrow, I did her in with the fire potion that is stowed away in a chest in Frennedan's room.

Upon advancing to level 9, Macready rolled an **8** for his HP roll (yes, I'm serious), and upon reaching level 10, he rolled a 5. So, by core rules, he has 76 of a possible 80 HPs, a truly staggering, once in a lifetime total. I hope that proves to be a good omen.

Anyway, at present he is standing unharmed in Waukeen's Promenade, just shy of level 11. He has three stars in dual wielding and one in short swords, and is dual wielding with a main hand THAC0 of 14 and off-hand of 16. Those numbers will improve by 1 at the next level up, and finding some magic weaponry and saving up and buying a certain belt will of course help immensely.

His saves, after factoring in his ring of protection, are:

Death - 5
Wand - 4
Petrify - 9
Breath - 13
Spells - 5

As for thieving skills:

Open Locks - 65 (soon to be 90 at the level-up)
Find Traps - 100
Move Silently - 60
Hide In Shadows - 100
Set Traps - 80

So, the game's afoot. I'll post another update after he has developed a bit.

[ August 15, 2003, 22:33: Message edited by: Macready ]

Well I shall certainly send a prayer on your way, may you complete what few (if any) has done before

Hail to Macready the Swashbuckler !
Your rules sound good to me; as for the love interest, I would go for Viconia. Aerie would sound better on the short-term (as long as Imoen is away), but thinking long-term Viconia is much better.
Happy to know you made it out of Irenicus' dungeon !
So what do you plan to do next ? Which quests are on Macready's list ?
Keep us posted !

Sounds intresting, but with all challenges, the start is the hardest, after a few (10-20) hours playing you should have mostly all negative saving throws, some resistances, capped your strength with belts\gauntlets have a massive amount of hp and low ac and should only die if you end up running into alot of enemys\do summat stupid or dont perpare for a major battle.

In saying that in my current game my Half-Orc Beserker hasnt died yet, but im having a rare powergaming session, he has some ace items and has 5 party members :)

Seeing as he has just reached TOB and I fancy a rest bite from him I think I shall have a go at this :p

Well, we haven’t heard from Macready lately, and I’m not sure if that’s a good sign (he’s too busy with the resounding success of his swashbuckler team) or a bad sign (he’s too depressed over its failure); here’s hoping for the former :)

Last night, I decided to give this hardcore thing a try. My approach draws from the ideas previously put forward. Speaking strictly for myself, since this is hardcore, I think I have to approach this more from a powergaming perspective. I created a 2 person multi-player party (core rules). No NPC’s allowed. Because I get to tailor-make 2 characters and roll stats for as long as I want, I am treating both as PC’s; in other words, if either one dies, its game over.

My party:
Main character – NG Elven Fighter/mage/thief. I know, this is one of the easiest classes to solo with, so what’s the big deal? Simple – it’s hardcore. Rolled pretty good HP’s. Will eventually have ** in long swords, maces and short bows, * in single weapon style. (On a side note, if I put a shield in his off-hand, do I still get the single weapon style critical hit bonus? Just curious.) Even though he’s the main char, he isn’t the main tank, because my second character is…
Ranger, dualled immediately to a cleric. Decent HP roll. Dual-wielding, obviously.

With this party, I have all the bases covered – thieving skills, mage spells eventually up to level 6, priest spells (cleric and druid), and tanks. With only 2 characters, I’ll level up pretty fast (until one of them gets killed, that is). General approach for most even moderately-difficult battles will be: draw upon holy might (available to both chars), haste, chaotic commands (once available, to protect against the various mind control spells), and other spells on an as-needed basis. I will be doing a lot of resting. These factors, along with the fact that I’m powergaming, is why I am being very unforgiving in terms of requiring that both characters stay alive.

I’ve just started the game; made it through level 1 of the dungeon with relative ease, and don’t expect any problem with the second level. It’s somewhat tricky only in the sense that my cleric is low-level and hasn’t regained his ranger abilities yet, and probably won’t until we’re out of the dungeon. Haven’t quite decided how I’m going to approach the rest of the game though; I’m not sure if I should force myself to do the more difficult side quests where I stand a good chance of dying (dragons, Kangaxx, Guarded Compound, Twisted Rune, etc.), or play it safe; one of the reasons I went with long swords instead of katanas is because I am inclined to go with the latter. Of course, if I die doing something stupid in one of the easier battles (and this is quite probable), then it’s moot anyway.

I’ll see how this goes. But I’m still hoping that Macready’s role-playing approach is successful :)

Hello -

Well, we haven’t heard from Macready lately, and I’m not sure if that’s a good sign (he’s too busy with the resounding success of his swashbuckler team) or a bad sign (he’s too depressed over its failure); I haven't had much time to play lately, so nothing substantive to report. He's mainly been exploring the city and racking up the easier experience and loot (I am not hesitating to draw upon my knowledge of the game in making choices about where to go).

My current goal is to save up enough gold to buy the hill giant belt, because I am still struggling a bit with to-hit issues, and I'm tired of connecting for 3 and 4 damage. Once that is in my possession, I'll start to get a little more ambitious. I already have two magical short swords from one of the random between-areas encounters, so my equipment is slowly coming together.

I plan to get several hours of playtime in tonight, so hopefully I'll have some progress to report later this week.

Haven’t quite decided how I’m going to approach the rest of the game though; I’m not sure if I should force myself to do the more difficult side quests where I stand a good chance of dying Same here. I have resolved not to force myself, but I of course recognize that victory is much more impressive with some or all of these quests completed. At the very least they are going to be delayed until I have gained quite a few levels.

Greetings and well met, welcome to SP! "May the ' calculator' be with you"

Glad to hear you’re still in the game! :thumb:

I am not hesitating to draw upon my knowledge of the game in making choices about where to go Ditto
My current goal is to save up enough gold... My feeling on this may be a bit different from yours since I’m powergaming and you are roleplaying, but for me, gold won’t be a problem. As soon as I’m out of the dungeon (assuming I make it that far :D ), I’m going to sell the 6 wands I got at the end of the dungeon to a vendor that I can steal from. With the help of a few master thievery potions, I’ll steal them back (they would then be worth a lot), and sell them to and steal them back from the 4 city fences (only once with each fence, though, and the last fence - probably Roger - keeps them). This should give me enough gold for most of the better items (including bonus merchants), especially the belt and Vecna. (Actually, I use this approach even when I’m roleplaying, unless my PC has a lawful alignment, since a lawfully-aligned PC would never allow stealing in his group ;) . And if the PC or thief has a good alignment, I would make the original sale to a fence so I don't have to steal back from an innocent vendor.)
At the very least they are going to be delayed until I have gained quite a few levels That’s my thinking too, if I decide to do them at all; I’ll probably want to be at or near the XP cap before I even consider it.

Looking forward to hearing about your progress. I’m actually hoping you survive longer than me just to prove that it isn’t necessary to powergame this thing :D

Have not had a chance to visit for a while :bang:
First of all, I would like to whish all the best to Splunge for his heroic undertaking.
Sooo, how well and how far did your efforts bring you sofar ?
I think both your approaches so far are quite well thought, and getting good equipment should be a priority. Keep us posted about your progresses ! :thumb:
Btw, do you have any mod installed ? Just curiosity.

@ Kralizek
Thanks for the wishes. But it appears that I am going to need more than that (such as a lobotomy) if I’m going to get anywhere here. Let me explain.

I made it through the 2nd level of the dungeon just fine. Feeling confident from my success so far :rolleyes: , instead of getting my gold, I decided to make a quick detour to get Lilarcor. Why would I do that, you may ask, if I don’t have anyone using 2-handed swords? Because, for some stupid reason, I had it in my head that Lilarcor was a long sword :doh: (don’t ask why, since I’ve had it enough times before). Anyway, this isn’t so bad in and of itself, except that when I went down to the sewers under Copper Coronet, my F/M/T wasn’t doing any scouting, and I forgot about the enemies (hobgoblins, I think) that are there at the start, so I hadn’t made any advanced preparations. I underestimated the enemies' abilities, my Ranger/Cleric soon got held by one of the two mages, and my F/M/T didn’t have a dispel magic spell memorised. Fortunately, F/M/T was able to get off a haste spell and cleared everything out, leaving my R/C with a near-disastrous 6 HP’s. I am going to have to do alot better than this. :almostmad:

Anyway, with that nonsense (hopefully) behind me, I’ve got my gold, survived some minor battles (including the between-area ones), upgraded my equipment, and am in the process of doing the easier quests to build up my levels. I’ll let you know what happens once I actually do something important. This may take awhile, though, since I’m not going to have much time to play over the next few days.

BTW, no, I don’t have any mods. Just SOA, official patch and SP Fixpack.

@ Splunge
Glad you made it out of those sewers alive ! I have the feeling that early on it is better to avoid fights involving shamans and (yuan-ti) mages, as they seem all too fond on using holding and confusing spells.
Take your time, and good luck !

I figured I’d do a quick update here. I haven’t had a lot of time to play lately, and the situation probably won’t improve until next week. But first, a question:

I’ve been thinking about my uncertainty of whether I should skip the difficult side quests where I have a good chance of dying. It occurs to me that, if I am to get “bragging” rights here in the (extremely) unlikely event that I am successful, I might have to do these quests. The reason is that I am powergaming. Macready has basically taken a roleplaying approach, taking on a romance and Imoen; as such, he is treating the story as part of his game. Therefore, he does not have to take on any quest not directly related to the main story line. I, on the other hand, because I have taken mainly a powergaming approach, am essentially ignoring the story. Therefore, side quests are no more and no less important than the main quests, and thus the side quests should be done. However, an alternative view could be that, since I’m powergaming, my only objective should be to finish the game, and I could just forget about any quests that I don’t want to do, but I‘m not sure about that. Plus I have created a 2-person party which, in theory at least, I think is more powerful than Macready’s 1-person party (with limited NPC support), and therefore my party stands a better chance of going further than Macready’s. (This ignores the actual skill level of the player, and I find it hard to believe that anyone, Macready included, could be lower on the talent level than I am.) Does anyone have any views on this? (Not my skill level, but the other part. :D )

Now for my progress to date (such as it is). My R/C dual is at cleric level 11, and my F/M/T is 9/10/11. I have managed to avoid doing anything too stupid. In addition to what I previously reported, I have done the following:
- circus tent
- freed Haer'Dalis from the mage. I think I’ll wait awhile before I attempt the prison, though, since the battle right at the start is a bit tricky. But I want the boots of speed and Ajatha, so I’m not going to wait too long.
- Expose Mae’Var – done everything except actually killing him. I’ll wait awhile for this.
- Done De'Arnise Hold

Like I said, I haven’t got very far, but I’m being careful. Using a lot of hastes, stone/iron skins, spirit armour (for the save bonus), protection from evil 10’, draw upon holy might, chant, resist fear, etc. Probably overkill in many cases, but I’m playing it safe. Lots of resting (I’m not going to break any speed records here). Next will be Beastmaster, Unseeing Eye (yes, I will be using the Shield of Balduran), and Trademeet.

So Macready, how are you doing (and Mr Writer, if you are trying this)? :)

Probably overkill in many cases, but I’m playing it safe. I would not consider anything that has a chance to keep you alive overkill ...

Concerning your question about the dangerous sidequests: if you manage to end the game, my guess is that you will have bragging rights anyway, so I would not worry about that. But, since you are taking a powergaming approach, I feel you should do them... just as late as possible.

:thumb: keep up the good work Splunge! :thumb:

Hello -

@Splunge:

I think if maintaining a powergamer's approach is important to you, then you definitely need to do the harder quests. No powergamer would let the accompanying rewards go unreaped. :)

As for me:

I've taken an about face. Macready the swashbuckler is alive and well at level 13, still doing Athkatla's more manageable low-level quests. No deaths as of yet. But I'm not really having much fun, mainly because I think I'm a little thief'ed out. I've played a lot of them.

So Macready the swashbuckler takes a back seat...to make way for Macready the human sorceror! I've always wanted to take a sorceror through the game, and I have to say that I am finding it to be very satisfying thus far.

He has 18s in DEX, INT, and WIS, with a 16 CON. I rolled awfully well on HPs again, getting 36 of a possible 42 upon creation, and rolling 6, 6, 5 on the next 3 level-ups to attain a very solid 53 HPs. I haven't located a Find Familiar scroll yet, but of course when I do that will boost the HPs even more.

Thus far, I've chosen these spells:

Lvl 1
Armor
Friends
Identify
Magic Missile
Spook

Lvl 2
Blur
Invisibility
Melf's Acid Arrow
Mirror Image
Resist Fear

Lvl 3
Fireball
Flame Arrow
Melf's Minute Meteors
Skull Trap

Lvl 4
Improved Invisibility
Minor Spell Sequencer
Stoneskin

Lvl 5
Lower Resistance
Sunfire

I know that Fireball isn't exactly end-game material, but I'm getting tons of use out of it in these early levels.

My approach is the same: rack up as much easy solo experience as possible. Since I'm not a thief, I'm only picking trapless venues. Once I've exhausted those, I plan to hire out Jan until I get Immie back. I'm undecided if this protagonist will have a romance, but if he does, it will be Viconia.

I'm well into lvl 11 and grinding forward, obviously with no deaths. I'll continue to report in as things progress.

[ August 27, 2003, 18:48: Message edited by: Macready ]

oooohhh, I wana try it....

What character should I choose, I can't make my mind up.

Someone make my mind up for me, its either:

Elven Archer
Dwarven Berserker
Half Elf Swashbuckler/ fighter multiclass (cheated SK)
Halfelf Avenger

I'll go solo as well (just my PC), or at least i'm planning too - how hard is it with a small party? I want to roleplay so the above multiclass is out I suppose, but I wanted to know what people thought of it.
Any help is appreciated, thanx :)

@Malovae:
Welcome to the party! :wave:
I'm not the one really qualified to answer your question here since I'm not roleplaying. When you say you want to solo, do you mean Macready's version, or "true" soloing (ie without NPC support)? If the latter, your choices listed are going to be really tough given that, except for the avenger, you have no magic to speak of. If the former, then it depends on what NPC's you are using and what their role would be.

@ Macready + Kralizek
I think if maintaining a powergamer's approach is important to you It’s not that it’s important to me in the context of BG2 in general (I'm actually trying not to powergame in a "normal" game), but I just don’t think I have a hope in hell of getting this hardcore thing to work without it. Again, that’s just a reflection of my total lack of confidence in my own ability to roleplay this thing, and I hope you prove that powergaming isn’t necessary here.

But, since you are taking a powergaming approach, I feel you should do them... just as late as possible No powergamer would let the accompanying rewards go unreaped My thoughts exactly. (Damn, I knew I should have gone with katanas :mad: )

Thanks for the encouragement, Kralizek! :)

@ Macready
From what I understand, a sorcerer is a good option for soloing (easier than a swashbuckler, anyway), so I think you’ve made a wise choice. Never having soloed a sorcerer, I can’t really comment on your spell selection (not that you asked), other than to say (and this is just me) that I would have taken chromatic orb instead of friends, and cast friends from a scroll when buying the expensive items (basically Vecna); but this of course pretty much requires using a level 4 spell slot on greater malison. However, as I said, that’s just me and my powergaming tendancies.
Here’s hoping for your continued success! :thumb:
BTW, are you intending to do Twisted Rune for the Staff of Magi? (Just curious; I’m not suggesting you should.)

Hello -

@Splunge:

I switched to sorceror mainly on account of personal fun factor rather than solo viability, but regardless, I'd have to agree that a sorceror doesn't seem to need much help in a fight. In fact, group mates would often be more of a burden than a help (AE spells, having to worry about protecting them, etc.).

I am really enjoying this style of play. My thieves always made strategic withdrawals, retreated around corners to cloak, ran around in combat, and generally played like timid little mice. The sorcerer just shrugs when he sees danger, casts one or two protective spells appropriate to the situation, and then proceeds to blast his opponents to oblivion with almost total invulnerability. I can't wait until I pick up Protection From Magical Weapons in order to augment my ability to stand unharmed in the face of danger.

My approach to spellcasting is different: I tend to avoid the save-or-else spells, since they often amount to nothing more than a wasted round. I'm also playing with the fixed Chromatic Orb spell (Baldurdash -- it had some problem before -- ignoring magic resistance, I think), so that spell with its huge bonus to the saving throw is low on my list. I won't be taking Greater Malison either, since I won't be picking anything that would benefit from it except for the spells that allow a save for half damage, and in the case of those I'd rather use the Malison casting for another damage spell instead. :)

As for the Twisted Rune, I would have to be at *least* level 15 before I would even consider going in there. Maybe higher. That encounter could ruin my hardcore victory rather easily, so I won't even consider it until I am awfully powerful.

Continued luck to you as well!

@ Macready: welcome back ! Glad to know you are still going strong. Long live the mighty sorcerer ! :D

@ Malovae: welcome aboard to you too. Let your choice be wise and the dices with you !

As for me, it starts to look like I am the only one here who does not want to take the challenge. Nothing is farther away from the truth. Sadly I am quite busy with my real life right now, so I don't have any time left to play. But rest assured that I will join the party as soon as possible.
Just make sure you are still around by then. :hahaerr:
Hopefully over the weekend I will have the time to think about which approach to use. In the meantime, I whish all of you folks the best.

Ok, I went for the dwarven beserker:

Name - Gorimnir
Lawful Good
Dual Weilding Flails and Hammers.

Str - 16
Dex - 16
con - 19
int - 10
wis - 10
cha - 10

Had a couple of nasty run ins with vicious mephits but nothing I couldn't handle. I put aside my wish to roleplay and used Yoshimo to do the good old steal/sell technique and buy the girdle of hill giant str, then back to roleplay.

I did the circus tent quest got the influence ring and sold petty much everything I got so far except ring of prot and healing potions.
Next i'm going to do the lirlicor quest and the slavers, so keep ya fingers crossed :)

:edit: - i'm soloing with no npc's except for when I need a thief, and I'll take yoshi to spellhold as well

I was thinking about my question on whether I have to do all the quests since I am powergaming, and you know what suddenly strikes me as funny? Not only am I not roleplaying this thing, but I’m not even sure how I should roleplay a powergamer! :rolleyes: How lame is that?! :lol:

Anyway, as it turns out, I think I may have overestimated how difficult this was going to be. Aside from that bit of stupidity at the start, I have had absolutely no problems. My R/C dual is at cleric level 14, and my F/M/T is 10/11/12. I have now finished the Skinner Murders, Unseeing Eye, Beastmaster, Trademeet, and killed Mae’Var and Mencar Pebblecrusher. I had to “cheat” a bit to finish Trademeet since I don’t have a Druid to fight Faldorn, so I used Cernd, and gave him every buff I had; no problems there fortunately, because I had extended my ‘no-death’ rule to him as well. I’ve also done Galvarey (Harper Hold); I had to take Jaheira to initiate the fight, but I kept her in the background. Seriously, this is a breeze right now, and it will probably get even easier until I hit the XP cap. I’m relying mainly on buffed-up melee attacks. My biggest concern is going to be guarding against becoming too cocky and making a dumb mistake.

Astral Prison is next, and then a lot of other Chapter 2 stuff (but I’ll probably hold off on dragon killing, Kangaxx, Guarded Compound, and Twisted Rune until Chapter 6, although I may consider taking on Kangaxx before Chapter 4). It's all going to have to wait until next week, though, since I'm going out of town for a few days. So much to do, so little time.

@ Kralizek - Glad to hear you’re going to give this a try. Good luck once you get started!

@Macready – It sounds like you’ve planned out your approach to your sorcerer very well, so I’m sure you’ll do fine.

@Malovae - given my comments above, you may not have as difficult a time with your berserker as I originally thought, but I think you're still going to have a tough time without magic. Good luck; it'll be interesting to hear how you make out!

I am happy to announce that I am ready to start my try. Following Macready's inspiration (way to go, by the way ! Keep up the good work !), I decided to take a class I never used in the game before: the monk. I always considered this class to be overpowerful, but it has some nice features which might just help hardcoring this game. I decided to roleplay this try, so here it is how it's going to be: this will be a Bhaalspawn saga, meaning the only NPC allowed is going to be Imoen. The one exception to the rule will be the fact that during chapters 2 and 3 I will take Nalia with me; ok, this is not really rp'ing, but the small noblewoman is nearly a clone of Imoen, so the balance of the party will not be upset. I will just take my glasses off and pretend I do not notice the difference. :grin: I anyway mean to breeze (well, kind of at least) through those early chapters and get to Spellhold quite soon.
My alignment is going to be lawful evil, the lawful constrained by the class. Evil because I have a feeling goody-two-shoes experience high mortality by poking their noses in the wrong places (and for free too :nono: ). The evil comes from the fact that my monk will look after himself first (a wise move, when it seems like everyone around you wants your one and only skin). This means I will freely use the "hit and run" tecnique as well. I will follow the rules which Macready stated, which means that my monk will be the only one dealing and receiving damage, the NPC is there only to buff me up, no spells on the opponents are allowed. Of course no cheese allowed (meaning game bugs and game engine exploitations; all the rest is game).

After Splunge's comments (congrats to you, after a closer look yours look like the ultimate party to me ! Prove me right please ;) ) however I decided to try and spice things up. To add some difficulties I will roll the stats at character creation only three times and keep the best result. After that, it's game time.

So, I'll be off creating my monk. More to come as soon as I had a closer look at him. In the meanwhile, any comment is very welcome.
And please, do not whish me good luck: where I hail from it is thought to be a bad omen.

Time for a quick update.

Astral Prison – done. No problems
Umar Hills – done, but I’m leaving Temple Ruins until Chapter 6.
Planar Sphere – done. Had trouble against Tolgerias. I forgot about his Death Fog (or is it Cloudkill?). Didn’t have Zone of Sweet Air memorised (never do), and when he cast it, I didn’t notice at first how much damage I was taking (lots). I almost hung around too long before retreating back to the corridor where you first come in. Close call.
Free the Slaves (Slums) – done.
Windspear Hills – done, except for killing Firkraag, which I’m leaving for Chapter 6. Some difficulty against Samia etc., but nothing serious.

Currently my R/C dual is at cleric level 18, and my F/M/T is at 11/12/13. With my R/C now having 2 points in staves (at level 16), I think I’ll tackle Kangaxx (I want the ring) before I start Chapter 4. Ideally, I’d like to get to cleric level 19 first (at which point I get another -2 to THAC0), but I don’t know if there’s enough XP available before Chapter 4; it’s not essential anyway. I don’t care about the level of my F/M/T, since the R/C will be doing all the work with the Protection from Magic scroll and the Staff of Rynn.

So, other than Kangaxx and what I’m leaving until Chapter 6, Chapter 2 is done. So far, so good. However, I’m a lot more familiar with Chapter 2 than I am with subsequent chapters (I have started so many games and abandoned them for various reasons during Chapter 2 that I’ve lost track of them), so I expect to be caught unprepared more frequently than I have so far. Of course, I’ll be scouting ahead with my F/M/T, but that only helps to a certain degree, and a problem could be the result of not knowing which spells I should have memorised for which battles. I wouldn’t be surprised if my game ends shortly. Fortunately, I also have a “regular” game going where I had just started Chapter 6; I put it on hold to try this hardcore thing. If I get to Chapter 6 here, I’ll probably finish the other game first just to refresh my memory of what to expect.

@ Kralizek – pretty gutsy to go with a class you’ve never tried before. I’ve never tried a monk either, but my understanding is that you need to be careful in the early stages, since the monk is apparently fairly weak at first. So, I hope you die (well, you said we can’t wish you good luck; is this going too far the other way? :p ) BTW, good decision to use Imoen/Nalia; I think you’ll need the magic. Too bad you can’t use haste, though.

So, how is everybody else doing?

Hello everybody
Splunge, you seem to be rocking this game. Just be careful not to get overconfident. :p
I can proudly present you my creation: my lawful evil monk goes by the name of Anjin-san. This one's quite a misplaced citation, but I figured it would do. After a first test trial, which ended quite quickly btw, I proceded to create my hero. Here are the stats:

STR: 18
DEX: 18
CON: 18
INT: 8
WIS: 17
CHA: 4

The hit points are very bad news: a grand total of 56... just to compare: Nalia has 58 right now. Just sad, that's my only comment
Another bad new is, early on the monk, as pointed out by Splunge, is fairly weak. Actually, forget about the fairly... see him waltzing seemingly undendingly against mephits is a gives me a feeling which I locate halfway between the frustrating and the pathetic.
I only made it out because of my Bhaalspawn abilities, specifically Horror. And since my movement rate is high, it is quite easy to hit running enemies (connecting on them however is another story). Anyway, Anjin-san majestically walked out of the dungeon having left only a pesky vampire alive. After the shock of having Imoen abducted, he proceeded to find a replacement for her. Luckily, he has been directed straight to the Copper Coronet. After which, he finished the business at the circus tent. Given his hate for mind-altering magic he terminated the illusionist gnome with the greatest pleasure. After this, he will tackle all the basically not-combat oriented quests hoping to gain some extra-power. Nalia also needs to inscribe some more protection oriented spells in her book. Anyway, it is going to be tough to continue before the weekend, so it is going to take a while before I can post something new.
Splunge: thanks a lot for your wish. I'll take in the spirit it was -hopefully :D - meant.

This should IMO be called "Ironman" instead of Hardcore. The term Ironman is often used for playing a game without using save/reload.

Is there any consensus on what difficulty level to play the game?

I'm considering playing a sorcerer solo Ironman style, now that there is such a great interest.

Ironman sounds good to me, although images of brutes lifting concrete blocks and pulling trucks around pop up in my mind :p
As far as I can say, we all are playing core rules.
You are welcome to play sorcerer, although Macready is already trying with one, so you folks might end up competing against eachother. Oh well, as long as it stays on friendly terms. :cool:
Feel free to join the party. Could you please post some more specific rules for your game (e.g. wether you go for a roleplaying or a powergaming approach, what if any cheese is allowed, and the like) ?

@ Earl Grey
"Hardcore" comes from Diablo 2, and I kinda like it; I guess "Ironman" could work as well, but to me (and this may just be me) it suggests minimizing deaths rather than none at all. Anyway, whatever you prefer is OK. And hopefully you decide to try this thing; the more the merrier! I agree with Kralizek - it looks like we're all playing core rules. I don't know that it matters too much whether you go with a sorcerer, but Kralizek may be right - so far, this is more of a friendly experiment, and 2 people using the same character could make it competitive, but as long as it's kept friendly, it may be OK. Any thoughts, Macready?

@ Kralizek
I'll take in the spirit it was -hopefully - meant You took it correctly ;) . I think I'll change it to "break a leg", which over here basically means "good luck" (go figure).

Very quick update. I had a little bit of time last night, so I started on my Kangaxx quest by going after the 2 liches holding his body parts. The Sewer lich was surprisingly easy. The Bridge lich was a different story - all I have to say is I'm glad I had lots of extra healing potions, because I must have went through 20 of them. Kralizek, your warning about not becoming overconfident is a very good one. I'm going to start Chapter 3, and I'm still planning on taking on Kangaxx at level 19 (but with a lot less cockiness).

@ Splunge: break a leg you too then ! :cool:
My question is: who are going to side with on chapter 3 ? I guess the question is whether you fear more level draining or backstabbing.
It is going to be a very tough question for me, as I expect my monk not to be able to equip the amulet of power. I guess in the end, given the amount of HP I have, I will side with Aran.
What about you ?

And what´s up with Macready and Malovae ? Have not heard anything in a while, so I am getting worried that the worst happened. :( Let us know folks !
As for me, I won't have any chance to play before the weekend. I will make sure to let you know when something happens.

About luck
Nobleman, Foradasthar and Kralizek all were of the opinion that playing Ironman (or hardcore) was a matter of luck. I disagree!
Luck will play a part, but it will be less of a factor the better you plan for everything in advance before you start the game.
For someone who plans very little in advance luck will be a major factor, but for someone who plans out every major encounter in the game before even starting the game the impact of luck can be made minimal.
Actually, as far as I recall when playing with a normal party I don't have to reload at all and when I do it it's when I'm not satisfied with the result. Reloading is pretty much a solo thing.

About the challenge
Is this challenge to be true solo or will it include one or more NPC's for shorter or longer time?
For me it must be a solo game. This is where the challenge lies. Ironman (hardcore) with a normal party is admirable and IMHO the way PC games ought to be played. But who has the will to always do that? :)

Whatever you decide for your game it is important to define before the game the limits of the NPC's. Things like how many NPC's, for how long or if an NPC will be admitted only for specific purpose - like disarm trap for example.

Other things
The idea of quitting before getting killed - Diablo 2 style - is absolutely ludicrous. Surely we can all agree that doing so is an exploit of gargantuan proportions.

Creating extra characters in multiplayer is IMO not allowed. Either you use the NPC's in the game or you play multiplayer. I know this is strict, but I've never been a fan of using the multiplayer option to build a single player party in BG2.

I consider the Ironman concept in this case to be like playing a pnp campaign with a Dungeon Master. You can die, but in most settings resurrection is an option for medium to high level characters. There are however situations when resurrection is not possible and the character is really gone. There is no reload.

What if you die after having made it quite a bit into the game? Two options:
1. Start from the beginning. You really want to make it and you think you can.
2. Reload and when you write about your game here you list how many reloads you had to do and where those happened.

Splunge had thoughts about which quests to do. My view is perfectly clear: Just finish the game! Which quests you choose to do to get there is not relevant.

[ September 05, 2003, 12:02: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

@ Kralizek – for the simple reason that I want the Mace of Disruption, I’m siding with the Shadow Thieves. Plus I don’t like the evilness of the quests from Bodhi.

@ Earl Grey:
1. Re luck – I agree to a point, but it’s the randomness of the saving rolls that are the potential problem. But it’s also a matter of choosing what quests to do when, and as you say, proper planning and preparation for each battle.
2. Re challenge – We’ve already established that earlier in this thread. The challenge is this - don't die. Define up front your approach (soloing, NPC's, multi-player, etc.), and it's OK. Of course, as you suggest, there's more glory in going "true" solo.
3. Re quitting before being killed – again, we’ve established that. It’s not allowed.
4. Creating extra characters in multi-player – well, I guess you disagree with my approach, but nobody else seems to have a problem with it. You’re of course entitled to your opinion – at this point, it makes no difference to me.
5. Re death – with all due respect, I think you’re missing the point of the whole hardcore exercise. No deaths allowed. Period. If the PC dies, it's game over. (In my case, I’m extending it to both my characters.) And if an NPC dies, no resurrection; you can get another NPC, but you’re done with the old one. Your idea of reloading for high-level character deaths is, as I suggested before, the difference between Hardcore and Ironman, and I think we should make that distinction starting now.
BTW, I have absolutely no problem with the Ironman approach, but I think it should be declared at the start whether someone is playing Hardcore or Ironman. For the record, I’m doing Hardcore. When I die (very possibly quite soon), I may start a new game Ironman-style, and take a roleplaying approach.
6. Re which quests to do – I agree with you for those who are roleplaying. See the previous comments in this thread for anyone (such as myself) taking a powergaming approach.

I basically agree with Splunge on most points.
Speaking for myself, I am carrying -as stated in a previous post- an extra NPC as support (i.e. buffing and detrapping).
I also think that the moment I die, I will drop this game. The main reason behind it is that I want to get a real feeling of no-safety-net here. So, like in real life, once my monk dies, it's game over (he might believe in reincarnation, but that does not matter right now).
However, this is only my approach, and I do not want to impose it on anybody.
Personally I think that tackling SoA hardcoring it is quite an ambitious undertaking. I therefore believe that everyone trying it should have some freedom in defining the rules. As far as I can tell, all of us are using slightly different approaches, but it does not bother me at all, as long as rules are stated nicely before starting the game.
After which, I wish Earl Grey the best for his try at this. Iirc you are not new to this kind of challenges, and quite quick at solving them. Prove us that luck has nothing to do with it! :thumb:

My observations regarding character death have no impact on a soloing effort. When you die there it is over.
My point was that death is not final in a AD&D setting and so the focus should be on going through the game without having to reload. Character death ought to be kept seperate from the "save & reload" routine. In either case "Save & reload" is not allowed, we are in agreement on this.

Not allowing character death in non-soloing Ironman is a good idea and I am in support of that.

Regarding quests.
The challenge is to finish the game without reloading (and any character dying for those who aren't soloing) I cannot see how the choice of quests is anyones business but the players own. Regardless of playing style. It would be just confusing the issue.

Thank You, Kralizek, for the good luck wishes. I wish everyone else trying out this challenge in one shape or another the best of luck. It will be very interesting to read the results. If you fail, please tell us where and why you failed. Such information can be at least as interesting as reading the summary of a successful game. :)

@ Earl Grey
Perhaps I misunderstood your point, so please clarify. We are apparently in agreement that, in a hardcore scenario (vs. Ironman as I’ve made the distinction), character (ie. PC) death means game over. So how do you keep death separate from “save and reload”? Or are you saying that it’s OK to resurrect NPC’s? I guess I’m still a bit fuzzy on what you are saying (sorry, it’s Friday, and it’s been a hard week :spin: ).

On quests, my only point is that, to make up for the relatively easier time I should (in theory at least) have for taking a powergaming approach, plus the fact that no self-respecting powergamer would avoid an unnecessary battle just because it is hard, I should do the difficult battles. Again, that’s just my (and Kralizek’s and Macready’s) opinion. You’re right though, this shouldn’t be forced on anyone. And for non-powergamers, it would be foolish to take on dangerous and unnecessary fights.

So, have you decided to go with a sorcerer? Please keep us up to date on your progress, and “break a leg” (if, as with Kralizek, I shouldn’t be wishing you good luck :) )

No matter what character you choose, qhat quests you choose and your style of play, it will boil down to luck. I am thinking that no one here will be able to do it on their first try, maybe even their second. I know I wouldn't be able to do it period, but I may try sometime.

*Edit*

Would a monk be good for this kind of play? Magic resistance and a damage machine. Dunno how well he would resist hold and that type of stuff, but it is worth a thought.

I had a feeling my posts in this topic was a bit fuzzy.

As for definitions, are these acceptable:
Hardcore = No deaths, no save&reload
Ironman = Soloing Hardcore

BG2 is not installed on my PC right now, but I'll probably reinstall it in the next days. I think sorcerer is a good choice because you use summons and fight from a distance. This hopefully reduces the risks of instant deaths/incapacitations.
Inquisitor has crossed my mind, but I haven't really considered the implications of using this class. I have never solo'd a paladin, which is quite a drawback. I've quite a bit of soloing experience with sorcerers on the other hand.

@fade
You can't rely on the MR percentage protection of a Monk because there is still a chance - and a significant chance at that - that the MR will fail. It's still a nice bonus, just beware that instant death situations must absolutely be avoided, it does not matter if the chance of character death/incapacitation is 25% or 100%.

I think it might be possible to completely avoid all such potentially lethal situations and still finish the game.

[ September 06, 2003, 00:03: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

@ Earl Grey
Gotcha! :thumb: What you are saying is that resurrection is OK if we are using NPC's, since resurrection is allowed within the D+D rules. If you are "true" soloing, it's a non-issue since you can't resurrect a PC (you can only reload a saved game, which defeats the purpose of hardcore).
And no problem re your opinions; everyone has to be comfortable with how they're playing the game. :)

@ fade
You may be right about not making it through. As I've said before, I wouldn't be surprised if I die soon. As for a Monk, that's what Kralizek is boldly playing.

@Splunge
I was editing my latest post like crazy. Anyway, now you understand my opinion on resurrection.

Note that I do not think that allowing resurrection in a hardcore/ironman game is a good idea. :)

Edit:
It occured to me that I did what amounted to an Ironman game last summer. I didn't have to reload until an extremely tough fight in the bottom of Watchers Keep and that was after I had finished SoA. See the (unfinished) story of Isabeau d'Anjou here:
http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000150#000000

I had ToB installed and since this was soloing she reached the ToB XP limit while still in SoA, so it doesn't count as a true SoA Ironman game. It was too easy with all the extra ToB levels, spells and skills.

[ September 06, 2003, 04:06: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

You're posting in the SoA only forum Early Grey, but your post is full of ToB references and spoilers... Don't do this again.

Well, I made it. Chapter 3 is done, and I killed Kangaxx. It wasn’t that difficult a fight with the Protection from Magic scroll and Staff of Rynn. However, I had a very strange bug in the 3rd part of Chapter 3. When I went underneath the Graveyard, all the enemies were doubled – there were two Lassals, two Dursts, etc. plus I think there was double the normal number of “no-name” enemies. And their dialogues were doubled as well. I didn’t have an archive save to restore (no point, since this is hardcore), so I had to slug it out. Fortunately, with all the buffing I do, it wasn’t that difficult, and with both the Mace of Disruption and Amulet of Power, I didn't have to worry about level drain. I wouldn’t have felt too bad if I had resorted to Ctrl-Y to get rid of the duplicates, but it wasn’t necessary. Got double the XP too :D . Only one Bodhi though. Hopefully this is only a one-time thing.

So, I’ve just started Chapter 4. My F/M/T has reached his maximum levels (11/12/14), and my R/C is about 100,000 points away from his cleric max (level 20). Unfortunately, I won’t have much time to play over the next 2 weeks, so this may be the last update from me for awhile.

So Kralizek, how is your game going? I share your concerns that Macready’s and Malovae’s games are over since we haven’t heard from them for over a week, but I hope I’m wrong.

Earl Grey, have you had a chance to start your game yet?

Strange bug you had there, Splunge. :confused:
Hope it doesn't happen again.

I installed the game yesterday and so it's likely that I'll get going with this. I'll follow this topic every day to see what happens.

I'm quite sure that this was done ages ago, the attempt is burried deep inside CS somewhere. It was written up in story format.

Well, I said I didn’t think I’d have much time to play this week, and I haven’t. I've just started Spellhold, and it’s going to have to stay there for another week since I’ll be out of town.

Depending on whether anyone has any interest left in the hardcore style, this may be the last post from me in this thread; obviously, Macready, Malovae and Kralizek are out of it, and I’m not sure if Earl Grey has started, started and died, or is still going strong. I might be just talking to myself here. Oh well, I’ll see in a week.

Noooo Splunge, do not leave us ! ;)
I am still alive and doing well, it is just that real life (and some booze) has pretty much catched up with me this past week. I am actually going to progress over the weekend. I just do not feel like playing in short burst, but I will be posting here as soon as something major happens.
Do you really think that if my PC would have died I would not have told you ? :nono: I would of course have shared the sadness with you. :p

Whew!! That’s a relief, Kralizek! I’m glad your monk’s still alive, and I’m glad you would let us know if he wasn’t. (I had kind of figured you would, but since I had thought the same of those stinkers Macready and Malovae ( :p ), and was apparently wrong, I thought I might have misjudged you as well.)

Anyway, I don’t feel so alone anymore (but of course, it’s too soon to count Earl Grey out). :) I’ll update you sometime the week of Sept. 22, after I’ve had some playing time. Hopefully by then you’ll have made some progress (make sure you’re sober when you play, though ;) )

make sure you’re sober when you play, though That's exactly why my game does not progress as quickly as it could during the weekends, especially Sundays. :grin:
I whish you a good time away from your game Splunge !
Oh and btw, maybe someone should try to PM Macready and Malovae. Who knows, maybe they forgot about this thread ? :confused:

Don't panic.

I started my solo sorceress today. Finished Irenicus' Dungeon and the Circus. Didn't have time to play more today. This will be a piece of cake. :)

Str 9
Dex 19 (Elf)
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 18
Cha 9

Starting spell selection:
1st level spells
Magic Missile
Identify
Friends
Shield
Prot f Evil

2nd level spells
Mirror Image
Knock
Resist Fear

3rd level spells
Melf's Minute Meteors
Skull Trap

Proficiencies:
Staff*
Dart*

Heh, your right, I got hit by a finger of death spell....damn liches!! Oh well thats what you get for taking a beserker.

I play on Core rules (don't think I wrote that earlier).

Update from day 2:

- Finished the Copper Coronet Slavers quest.
- Bought a "magic license" from Corneil.
- Released Viconia.
- Released Jan Jansen after getting him in jail.
- Finished Riddle in the Sewers.
- Finished Free the Slaves.
- Killed Mencar Pebblecrusher and his gang. (Five Spiders from Spider Spawn, three Web and I could almost stay and watch. It was extremely easy that way).
- Ambushed by Suna Seni and her gang.
- Did the "pirates in the wall" (Docks).
- Ambushed by Renfeld's kidnappers.
- Finished the Montaron quest.

Stopped playing for the day after becoming level 12.

Major equipment:
Robe of Vecna
Bracers AC 3
Staff of Rhynn
Girdle of Hill Giant Strength

New spells selected since start:
- Level 2
Melf's Acid Arrow (at level 9)
Web (at level 11)

- Level 3
Haste (at level 9)
Remove Magic (at level 11)

- Level 4
Spider Spawn (at level 8)
Stoneskin (at level 9)
Farsight (at level 11)

- Level 5
Breach (at level 10)
Spell Immunity (at level 11)

- Level 6
True Sight (at level 12)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

edited - September 14/15

Game over! (sort of)
I went straight into a vampire Domination and it was an instant game over. How obvious was that? :o

Well, I'm sure not going to let this little setback stop me, so after a restart I've finished Irenicus' Dungeon and will likely do some more gaming tonight (Sunday).

A tip: There is no such thing as too much preparation! :)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Edited again - September 16/17
Another couple of days after the restart and my new sorceress is at level 12 with a slightly different spell selection than the first one.

1st level (Same as before)
Magic Missile
Identify
Friends
Shield
Prot f Evil

2nd level (Same as before)
Mirror Image
Knock
Resist Fear
Melf's Acid Arrow
Web

3rd level
Melf's Minute Meteors
Skull Trap
Haste
Flame Arrow (instead of Remove Magic)

4th level
Spider Spawn
Stoneskin
Polymorph Self (instead of Farsight)

5th level (same as before)
Spell Immunity
Breach

6th level
Mislead

Comments:
I choose Polymorph Self for the 100% MR from the Mustard Jelly.
Flame Arrow is so I have a single target damage spell on 3rd level.
Mislead is... well, horribly good. :cool:

I've done all the stuff I did on the first try - more or less in the same order too, the most notable change being that I bought the Magic license directly after the Circus quest instead of later - as described above, but instead of paying Gaelan Bayle I choose to continue the following way:
- Caretaker for Risa
- Buried alive
- Uncle Lester
- Put the spirit of the child Wellyn to rest
- Killed Pai'na and her 20 small spiders
- Kill Roger's Sea Troll
- Killed the party in the sewers
- Ambushed by Orogs
- Animal Trouble in Trademeet

After getting Mislead an extremely good tactic is to cast Mislead (and spells like Mirror Image, Res Fear, Spider Spawn just to be safe) and Spell Immunity - Divination, then move in and attack with Skull Traps etc. It's a bleeding massacre since the enemies typically can't see you and thus can't do anything. Also it's good to have the cloak of Non Detection. :)

At level 14 Project Image becomes available...

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Edited again - September 18
Now at level 15 and the following has been done since last time:
- Madulf's proposition
- Mimic's blood
- Juggernaut Golem
- Collect the fee for Gaelan Bayle
- Pirates in the wall
- Skinner Murders
- Valeria and her goons (Bridge dist)
- Neb
- Sir Sarles (pure Illithium)
- Mae'var's first task
- Fallen Paladins
- Nalia's Keep

Current spells:
1st: MM, Pf Evil, Shield, Identify, Friends
2nd: MI, Knock, M Acid Arrow, Web, Res Fear
3rd: MMM, Skull Trap, Haste, Flame Arrow
4th: Spider Spawn, Stoneskin, Polymorph Self, Farsight
5th: Spell Immunity, Breach, Lower Resistance, Animate Dead
6th: Mislead, Death Spell, True Sight
7th: Project Image, Mordenkainen's Sword

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Yet another edit - September 21

At level 17 and everything is going ever so smoothly now.

The following spells have been added since level 15:
7th - Delayed Blast Fireball (Lich killer)
8th - Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
8th - Spell Trigger

Using Project Image & Skeleton Warriors & Farsight & Skull Trap & Abi-dalzims Horrid Wilting to do almost everything. Not putting my sorceress in any danger.

Here is what have been done since last time:
- Another mission for the Temple: the Dawn Ring
- Guarded Compound
- Ihtafeer
- Hero of Trademeet
- Dueling families of Trademeet
- Helping Tiris
- Acorns returned
- Free Haer'Dalis
- Planar Prison
- Firkraag's Dungeon almost completed, will go meet with Firkraag at start of next playing session.

Equipment normally worn:
Staff of Rhynn
Sling of Everard
Robe of Vecna
Amulet of Power
Bracers AC 3
Ring +2
Ring of Earth Control
Girdle of Hill Giant Strength
Boots of Speed
Cloak of Non-detection

Will get Ring of Gaxx and Staff of the Magi before leaving for Brynnlaw.

[ September 21, 2003, 16:25: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

Well, I'm back, and I've had a bit of playing time. I just started Underdark; Chapter 4 was no problem - buff, fight, rest, repeat.

@Earl Grey:
Well, I'm sure not going to let this little setback stop me That's the spirit! :thumb:
You appear to be beating the crap out of this game (as I thought you might). :) Keep up the good work.
A tip: There is no such thing as too much preparation! You've got that right!
P.S. - Good luck with the twisted rune - the staff is pretty hard to pass up.

@Kralizek - You were silent all week. I hope that's not a bad sign. :mommy:

@Malovae
You took on a lich with a solo berserker? And a low-level (probably) one at that? As Jay Leno said to Hugh Grant, "what the hell were you thinking?" :p Oh well, are you gonna try again?

EDIT: :( :( :(

My game is over :wail:

I was in Ust Natha. I got the quest from the thing in the tank to get Qilue's brain. Well, I don't recall the battle being too difficult in my previous games, but even with all my advance buffing, I got nailed by one of the mages; I'm not even sure what killed me, since it was my "main" PC that died, so I got the death screen.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. I guess it's up to Earl Grey (and hopefully Kralizek) to do this thing. Good luck to both of you, and please give updates since I'll still be watching this thread.

[ September 22, 2003, 04:21: Message edited by: Splunge ]

Just a very quick update. Sadly, real life has pretty much catched up with me the whole week, so I had no quality time to spend on any hardcore sessions. :(
My monk is still running around Athkatla trying very hard not to get killed. I will hopefully have more time this week, so be on the lookout ;) . I must say however that sofar the monk class has been a disappointment, far less powerful that I expected.

@ Splunge: :wail: :cry: Well, you went very far at least. I hope I will manage at least what you did. I hope you enjoyed the try !

@ Earl Grey: hope you will have better luck this time around. Seems like you are getting things in order though. :thumb:

@ Splunge

I was quite angry at the lich so I reloaded and killed it - but it was still a hollow victory. I thought (for some unknown reason) that berserk would protect me from death magic and the lower saving throws would help as well. I was lvl 12 by the way. I might give it another go in the future and will either start a new thread or resurrect this one. In fact I might even start tonight. See how I feel later ;)

Hello -

My apologies for my extended absence. I was on vacation for over a week and then...

Death happened to all of my characters (both the Swashbuckler and the Sorcerer), but not in the manner I had originally envisioned. A devious foe named "Maxtor" cast a finger of death at itself, and failed the saving throw. Or, in RL terminology, my hard drive crashed completely...do not pass go, do not collect $200, do not boot the computer again without a boot disk.

Of course, in true "hardcore" style, I had no backup of my games. The combined aggravation of having to rebuild my development machine from scratch and losing my BGII progress has made me swear off the project for the time being.

I hadn't done much of note. My sorcerer was still tinkering around Athkatla, doing the gravy quests that allow for quick and easy experience. I am going to take some time to let the BGII bug bite me again of its own accord, and then I'll reinstall it and have at it once more.

Anyway, now that I'm back up and running, I did want to let everyone know that for now I am out of the running, but I am still interested in the idea and have enjoyed catching up with all of your progress. It turns out to be a good thing that EG picked a sorcerer as well...all our arcane hopes rest on his shoulders! ;)

@Macready
Thanks for the update. Now that we know you didn’t just disappear, my faith in humanity (or at least you) is now restored. Sorry to hear about your computer; hopefully you’ll get “bitten” again soon. :) And please post elsewhere on these Boards if you feel like it; new, intelligent (ie unlike me) members are always welcome.

@Malovae
I know what you mean about the hollow victory – I did the same thing with my game.

@Macready
Sorry about that HD crash. Hope that won't happen to you again.

@Splunge
When that thing happened in Ust Natha, would you say that you were being careless, or was it something that you would have had trouble avoiding? For example, were you prepared with defensive spells?
You got quite far so it's understandable if you don't try again, but you really should, you know! :)

@Malovae
Single class fighter type is IMHO putting himself at high risk too many times for this kind of exercise. Berserker/Mage is probably a brilliant choice though! Why don't you try it? :)

@Kralizek
Monk is IMO an excellent soloing character. However in this case he probably suffers from having to put himself at risk all the time, like all other meleers. Things like Quivering Palm is save-or-else so not quite as great as when you can reload.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Here is what my sorceress has done since last time:

- Killed Firkraag (Lower Res / Abi-Dalzim / Mordenkainen's Swords)
- Twisted Rune (Project Image / DB Fireball / Skull Trap)
- Unseeing Eye
- Shade Lich
- Elemental Lich
- Mae'var's Treachery
- Kangaxx (Skeleton Warriors w P f Magic cast from scroll via Project Image / Melf's Minute Meteors / Mordenkainen's Swords / Spell Immunity-Abjuration)
- Planar Sphere
- Bohdi's lair

So, I'm about ready to leave Athkatla having acquired the Ring of Gaxx, Staff of the Magi and Ring of the Ram.

@Earl Grey
It wasn't so much a matter of being careless as underestimating the difficulty of the fight and therefore not having enough buffs on. My usual buffs were stone/iron skins, chaotic commands, spirit armour, resist fear, chant, prot evil 10', and haste. This usually is enough, and if I think the fight will be more difficult, I will add improved haste and improved invisibility. In this particular case, I had underestimated the difficulty, and only had the basics; plus the fact that I was caught a bit by surprise probably cost me once the battle started. After I died, I reloaded and added improved invis., and it went fine, but of course at that point my game was over. I have to say that I think that my death was going to happen eventually anyway, since as I said in an earlier post, I haven't played the later chapters as often as the earlier ones, so it was very likely that I would be caught off guard sooner or later.

As far as trying again, I might at some point, but not right now. If I can't do it with the party I had, I'm not sure what I would change to improve my chances. Of course, I suppose I could start the same party over again, but frankly I think I would get bored pretty quickly given that I would be playing the 1st 4 chapters basically identical to this time.

But enough about me. Earl Grey, you are doing great here. I'm feeling pretty confidant that you have a good chance of going all the way, so my fingers are crossed. But I'm curious - why did you decide to take on Firkraag? Was there something he had that you wanted, or did you just feel like kicking some dragon butt, and were confident you could do it without putting yourself in any real danger? (P.S. I saw your Firkraag strategy in the other thread, so I suspect you just wanted to teach the bastard a lesson. :) )

Ok, I can't help it.... i'm giving it another shot. This time i'm taking a socerer the same as Earl Grey.

Name - Geldin
Elf
Lawful Evil

Stats:

Str - 9
Dex - 19
Con - 16
int - 9
wis - 18
Cha - 18

Currently level 11

Spells:

Magic Missile
Identify
Chromatic Orb
Spook
Shield

Melfs Acid Arrow
Knock
mirror image
Blur
Web

Skull trap
Melfs Minute Meteors
Dispel
Prot from Normal missiles

Stoneskin
Imp. Invisibility
Greater Malison

Breach
Sunfire

Mislead


So far I've done these quests/encounters:

Dungeon
Circus
Mencar and gang
Slavers
Lirlicor
Bought Magic Lisence
Wellyn's bear
Risa and the Goody two shoes
Crypt king
the Spider Queen
Uncle lester
Skinner murders (part 1)
Kidnappers in Bridge District
The hideout of Valeria and gang
Two Random Encounters
Xsars Quest
Jaherias Harper Hold Qeust. then killed the arrogant wannabe
Watched Viconia burn
Recruited Jan then kicked him out for the XP
Wiped out the radient Heart ala shura :D

(Prelate weaslen only gives 25000 xp and the other knights give either 2500, 3500 or 7000 xp.)


update later

i may have to give this a shot it sounds intresting

For those considering to give this a go I can recommend Berserker-dual-to-Mage (for SoA only, not for ToB). That would give a decent fighting skill when needed, some special protective ability via Berserker Rage and then the spell power from being a mage.

@Splunge
You are right in asking about Firkraag. I did it because I felt it was safe and wanted to try and beat him. In case things would not have gone as planned my back-up plan was to hightail it out of there before he had a chance to do any damage.
What I feared was that he would get in a Heal just in time to avoid death. My tactic depended primarily on Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting and once those were depleted I had decided to escape.

@Malovae
Haste is excellent for the summons. IMHO for a soloing sorcerer there are three level 3 spells that you need: MMM, Haste and one area damage spell (like Skull Trap or Fireball).

Improved Invisibility is hardly useful once you get Mislead.

Spell Immunity is a lifesaver, especially when you have some knowledge of what to expect.

Which summons are you planning to use? As you have seen I'm heavily dependant on summons both to do the fighting and to keep me out of harms way.

I'm not sure about my summons because I've rarly used them before. I normally take Animate Undead but that would mean dropping an important spell. mordeikans sword is a must but other than that i've never been tempted to take them.
Sunfire is a must for me - I know its not that powerful but theres nothing better than beimg swamped by enemies and and setting off a damage free fireball :)
This is the first time i've used mislead alot and I like it - just have to get spell immunity and I'm sorted.

Anyway, i just got in from work 2:30 AM :( and decided to complete :

Animal Trouble in Trademeet
skinner (part 2)
fueding families of trademeet
Head of Ihtafeer

Next I'm off to the D'Arnise Hold - wish me luck!

After leaving Athkatla, my sorceress has "done" Brynnlaw, The Asylum and the Sahuagin city.
There is absolutely no dangerous fight in any of those places - at least not for a high level character - so there's not much to say. I think the only way you could screw up in there is if you got careless with some trap.

Sunfire is nice but it's bugged. It erroneously disregards magic resistance, which makes it quite excellent. I chose not to take Sunfire for that reason, but have some scrolls of Sunfire... just in case. :)

Because defense is vital my Spell Trigger is typically loaded with Mirror Image - Mislead - True Sight. Using pause on seeing enemy (of course :) ) this gives me the opportunity to become almost invulnerable in an instant by firing the Spell Trigger on myself.

I don't have Contingency, but buy all the Contingency scrolls I can find and cast it with: when at 50% HP - Stoneskin - Self. Being reduced to 50% HP's should never happen, but it's a nice little insurance that might save the game. My point is that Contingency is nice, but IMHO not worth a spell slot in SoA.

Today, it's time for the Underdark! :roll:

@Malovae:
I remembered clearly that unlike IWD2, BG2's sorcerer primary stats is int instead of cha....

Ok, today I've completed:

All Nalia Quests
Cult of the Eyeless
Party in sewers
Rodgers sea troll
Shade Lich
Mekrath (only got gem - and have not done the astral prison)
Illitium
Neb's head
retieve the lathander ring for talos
destroyed the Lathander Temple for fun
Guarded compound
Mae Var Quests and destroyed him
Mimics blood
Madulfs proposition

Have just started the Planar Sphere after using Valygar's body to get in.

Spells picked:

lvl 4 - Polymorph self for the 100% magic res. handy agaist liches mainly and other high level mages.
lvl 5 - Spell Immunity for various purposes
- Animate Dead still not sure if this was a wise pick (I would prefer lower res)
lvl 6 - Death Spell to get rid of summons and annoying low level enemies (random encounters and goblins etc)
- True Sight
lvl 7 - Mordiekins sword
- Finger of Death
lvl 8 - Abi's Horrid Wil...need I explain??

@ Skywind

I didn't take charisma because I thought my sorcerer depended on it - it was so I wouldn't have to keep putting on the Influence ring all the time ;) . Intelligence does not have any real effect on anything for a sorcerer other than possibly spell failure if its too low.

Next i'm off to kill the Elemental Lich and then Kangaxx. I'm not doing the Shade Lord quest or Windspear Hills. Nothing really important there, and I've almost hit the XP cap for SoA (I will go past it but this is the SoA forum which is kinda annoying....

....hey Earl Grey are you moving onto 'you know what' because there is a thread already in the ToB forum which we could move onto) - sorry Tal

oh and I must remember to get the Staff of the Magi :D

So, I decided to take from thought to Action and join the "hardcore" club, but as a "newbie" I'll try to fill in whats going on :)

So, I decided to create a 2 pc MP game, creating a mage/thief elf and Fighter/Cleric Half-elf, and so far I've been in a lot of trouble (and haven't advanced nearly at all in Irenicus dungeon :) ).

So I bet my first survival will be brief, and offcourse please do send me tips on making money/getting those super quest items etc :)

I bet my next add on this forum will be my chars death, but hey, practice makes the champion, eh?

Wish me luck :)

*already lost nerves on my lousy chars*

Do not put your character in danger if you can avoid it!
Use summons to do your fighting whenever possible. Use invisibility (Mislead is great) to avoid getting targeted by most enemies.

Rest!
Do not hesitate to stop and rest for whatever reason.
Perhaps you'd like to have another spell memorized? Then rest!
You're in Athkatla and it's night? Rest until it's daytime if there's even a small chance that vampires would cause you problems.

Traps
Do you really need to open that container? Do you know if it's trapped or not? Do you know what kind of trap it has?
If you absolutely must open a container - and it's quite rare that you must - then prepare as much as possible first.
Spell Deflection (and all similar spells) are great.
Mirror Image helps vs Area spell traps.
Spell Immunity - vs Conjuration (Maze, Power Word Kill etc), Abjuration (Imprisonment etc), Alteration (Disintegrate etc), Necromancy (Finger of Death etc) or Enchantment (Dire Charm etc).
Stoneskin.

Of course, in your case you have a Thief (Mage/Thief), so traps should actually be a benefit to you (more XP).

Know the game!
If you have the time, keep another game (normal) going in which you stay ahead of your hardcore/ironman party/character. That way you have a fresh memory of what is to come. I actually have a regular 2-character Multiplayer game going via internet with my brother (He plays an Inquisitor and I play a sorcerer) and we've been ahead of my Ironman game until I left the Asylum.

Most importantly!
Never play when you are tired and always plan the battle tactics before going into battle. The harder the fight the more detailed the plan.

@Malovae
Yes, I intend to continue with this sorceress in ToB if/when she makes it to the end of SoA.

[ September 30, 2003, 09:04: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

@Earl Grey
Do you play with Tactics Mod installed ? Basicly the question is - do you have Improved Irenicus installed ? If you can kick his butt - kudos to you ! ;)

@Earl Grey
I was wondering are there any good mods on BG2 SoA that would add more spells on it? Like TDD does add lots of new spells=) and how can I make money to IE. buy all those neat spells/items?
Pickpocketting etc?


Update on my ironman tryout=)

I got killed in the beginning oddly=)
I went to the Circus, started helping Aerie (she was still on ogre mode), entered a wrong place accidentally, and got attacked by Were's (as you know the circus :) ).

So I went back and defended myself, and Aerie started casting spells on me shouting "I wont let you hurt my friends"... Odd eh? :D (or Me just being so newbie not understanding the consequences of wandering to wrong places with enemies on my tail).

So anyways, Starting a new game soon and laughing out loud on that one :D

ps. Do you disagree if I use dungeon-B-Gone -mod, since i HATE the 1st dungeon :)

Anyways, out to watch tv and then resume.. :rolleyes:

[ September 30, 2003, 19:32: Message edited by: Grandalf ]

Hello. I must say that this "Hardcore Mode" looks very challenging, so I'm going to have a try. Not now because I don't have very much time, but I'll let you know how I develope in a future.

Good luck to you all.

@Leslie
I have no mod installed.

@Grandalf
Money is not a big problem when you solo. There are two main reasons for that:
1. You only need to equip one character.
2. You can sell the good stuff that would normally be used to equip the NPC's.

In the circus you can easily die due to strength drain from monsters bringing your strength down to 0. I normally do not fight any of the monsters on either second or third level, but instead focus entirely on killing Kalah as quickly as possible.

That thing with Aerie was strange. Perhaps you hit Quayle by mistake?

IMO if you want to use Dungeon-be-gone go ahead. As long as you mention which mod you use so other people can fairly evaluate what you have done. For example it would be misleading if someone claimed that something is easy and then does not mention that he hacked his character to be invincible. :)


I haven't played much the last couple of days. Only did the Underdark area (not Ust'Natha!) and the Kuo-Toa cavern, including the Demon Knights in the Demogorgon room.

Yea, I tell you it's that challenging that you can't survive it unless you know this game backwars up :)

I stopped trying to play Hardcore, and now playing a normal SP game, since my all efforts on Hardcore fell on my memoryloss :(

Need to recall the whole game and retry=)

But good luck to all of you who can survive :)

@Earl Grey
I was Impossible to hit Quale(or whatever his name was=), since I didin't even see him in that part.. It was still the part that Aerie was chained and in ogre form. I just entered the north door of her, and ran away since the were's came at me, started defend myself near Aerie, and she attacked me :) Dunno if it's a bug or whatever=)

Currently I'm usin Ease of use, Dungeon-be-Gone, Soulafein and Item Upgrade (IU rules btw=)

The Beholder caverns and the Mind Flayer Dungeon done, so basically the Underdark is finished. Only Ust'Natha remaining to do down there and I'm considering skipping it and taking the quick way out instead. There is nothing to gain for my sorceress in Ust'Natha.

Typical tactic is:
- Spell Trap from Staff of the Magi.

- Cast Project Image (PI)

- PI casts:
1* Resist Fear
4* Animate Dead
4* Pf Evil (on the Skeleton Warriors)
7* Farsight
1* Haste (on the Skeleton Warriors)
The PI expires.

- Cast Mirror Image and a couple of Spell Immunity depending on what Farsight has revealed. If needed open door to area where fighting is to take place.

- Cast Project Image again

- PI casts Farsight as needed to see the enemies and the combat area.

- Attack with the Skeleton Warriors.

- The PI supports the fight primarily with Abi-Dalzim's HW, Death Spell, Lower Resistance and with quick slot items like scrolls (for example: Prot f Magic, Time Stop, Cacofiend).
My sorceress is not even close to the fighting area in most fights. There are fights when you enter a new area straight into a fight (for example the Beholder caverns). I prepare for those occasions by loading the Spell Trigger with Mislead - Animate Dead - Animate Dead. It buys time.

Prompted by some misplaced sense of masochism, I decided to try this. Not content to use a character I have solo'ed before (i.e., sorceror, F/M or F/M/T), I decided to try powergaming through with a Ranger/Cleric (so I could abuse the bug that gives me the gamut of druid spells).

Key things - Stats: 18(52), 18, 18, 18, 18, 4 (to be raised as needed by the ring of human influence). Proudly, this took me all of two minutes of rolling.

Mods: Item Upgrade, Tactics (some, but not most), Ease of Use, Dungeon-be-gone (for some reason the thing consistently froze up before I could get much past the prison area and I didn't feel like re-installing).

Playing on Core Rules. If I die (or what the game deems to be the equivalent), game over.

Solo'ing entirely (as I am good, I will make the single exception of adding Valygar to get me into the sphere before I drop him like a hot potato).

Current status: 11th level cleric/ 10th level ranger, using wyvern's tail/sling of seeking and shield of harmony, full plate +1, what's his name's helm from Irenicus Dungeon, ring of human influence, ring of protection +1, cloak of the sewers, boots of avoidance, belt for blunt or piercing as needed, periapt of proof against poison (until I get the amulet of power when I spend the dough on Gaelan). I also use Vhailor's helm for the simmies when needed.

Completed Quests: Circus, Mencar & Co., Slavers, Wellyn, Unseeing Eye (including clearing out that bunch of thugs in the sewers and Roger the fence's troll problem), Trademeet (all of it, including druid grove), skinner murders, buried alive, various topside encounters in graveyard (haven't gone underneath yet - building up turning power), freed and discarded Viccy, alibied Jan, rescued that poisoned harper and got Xzar killed.

In progress: Umar Hills - did everything in Imnesvale, will clear out the temple ruins next time I play, Windspear Hills - doing above the ground, have little to no intention of killing Firkraag, although I may take a stab at it in a couple of levels (or may wait until Chapter 6 when I will have plenty of HLA's).

Next up: D'Arnise Keep (don't know why I have been putting this off considering I really need that flail), starting to work for the thieves (to upgrade amulet and ring), rescuing Haer Dalis and co., Planar Sphere.

Basic strategy: summon things (skeletons, animals, nymphs, now that I have 6th level spells - fire elementals, make use of Vhailor's helm to double myself when necessary, use the insect plague and iron skins spells all the time, buff with draw upon holy might and the various nice cleric spells, chicken out with sanctuary when things look bad, turn, turn, turn.

Major concern from the start: traps and confusion type spells (maybe even opposing mages in general). Thus, I don't open much of anything unless I know it's not trapped. Money is not a problem so I don't feel the need to get loot that way. I keep well stocked with invisibility potions and use the cloak of non-detection around mages and others who can cast illusion dispelling spells such as true sight. I worry about the kangaxx fight, so I may resort to semi-cheese by having a simmie use scrolls on my protagonist. I have no intention of doing the twisted rune.

I think this can be done so long as I keep my paranoia up.

It's great to see you taking up the "challenge" too, dmc.
Just a quick note here, since this is SoA, you will not have any HLA's. If you have ToB installed then do not level up after reaching 2,950,000 xp!

Against Kangaxx I assume you will be using Mace of Disruption, so it should be reasonably easy and if you don't want to "semi-cheese" as you put it, why not actually use up one of the PfMagic scrolls then? I can think of no other time more worthy of it's use in SoA than vs Kangaxx.

Twisted Rune - you're not a magic-user so why should you do it? I certainly agree with your decision not to do it.

Confusion is nasty, but Chaotic Commands is so darn good, there should be absolutely no cause for concern.

Good luck! :)

[ October 02, 2003, 20:31: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

OK, guys !

Here's my progress and game: I think this is my 6th attempt at NRP (no reloads party) and I play with sort of customized party - I take existing NPC's with their original stats and use Shadowkeeper to change them into something more powergaming(why - to have a powergaming party which I need if I want to win this kind of game - and to still have some party banter):

Nalia - Fighter/Mage - multi
Jaheira - Ranger/Cleric - multi
Mazzy - Fighter/Thief - multi
Haer'Dalis - Blade (no changes)
Anomen - Fighter/Cleric (dual - no changes)
PC - Sorceress

I play with Tactics (everything except Ilyich), Item Upgrade, Ascension - on Insane.

Current status - I finished most of the city quests + Planar Prison and Trademeet. I will go to Maevar for the last time. ;)

Weapons plan:
F/M - Axes, Scimitars, Dual wield, Warhammers
(Stonefire + Belm, later Crom Faeyr + Belm, TOB - Axe of Unyielding + Crom)

R/C - Clubs, Flails, Dual Wield, Maces
(Wyvern's Tail + Shield of Harmony, later Blackblood + Gnasher, later Flail of Ages + Blackblood, also Mace of Disruption +2)

Blade - Short Swords, Katanas, Dual Wield
(Dak'kon Zerth Blade + Kundane, later Celestial Fury + Kundane (UAI - Scarlet Ninja-To))

F/T - Daggers, Short Swords, Short Bows, Cross Bows
(Tuigan Bow, Boomerang Dagger, Pixie Prick, FireTooth Dagger, Crossbow of Speed)

F/C - Slings, Maces, Warhammers
(Sling of Seeking, Warhammer +2, Skullcrusher)

Sorceress - bah, whatever - she casts spells ;)

I have a question concerning your conversation, what does a "powergaming" term mean?
Please Indulge a young man in the paths of the knowledge :)

Just completed Planar Sphere and joined Bodhi's guild - killed Aran and S.T's. I won't be playing until I've completed Starwars - Knights of the Old Republic.... so my game goes on hold for a few weeks. i'll get back to you later :)

@ Leslie - what will you do in the case of NPC death?

@ Grandalf - the powergaming question actually could (and probably should) be a topic of its own, given that it is off-topic here, and could become a rather lengthy dicsussion.

@ Earl Grey - don't let us down now! :D And I think your most important words of advice were to be familiar with the game. It's the lack of familiarity that did me in. :(

@ dmc - I'll kick myself if you do this, since I also had a Ranger/Cleric (but dualled), and added a fighter/mage/thief. And no mods.

@Splunge
Well, I was just wondering that can one play hardcore/ironman as a powergamer does?
OR you could PM me shortly explaining me what does it mean? :)

Do you get to tweak your chars on powergame or what? :)
but if it truly is off the topic, then i'm sorry, won't happen again=)

Grandalf - sorry, I didn't mean to critcise. All I meant was that the question of 'what is a powergamer' is a topic in and of itself, and could lead to some interesting discussion. I was kind of hoping that you might start a thread on it since you raised the question. And yes, I think powergaming is allowed in hardcore as long as you acknowledge that you are doing so; my failed approach was one of a powergamer (didn't do me any good, though).

Just tell the rest of us how you're going to do this hardcore/ironman thing. Modify all you want as long as it's clear what you've done. The important thing IMHO is that those reading your posts can have a chance to evaluate your effort.

Powergaming or roleplaying is extremely difficult to define so I guess if you want to say that you're playing in one style or another that's fine, but it's more important to describe how you actually handled the tough parts of the game. That will give both an insight in your play style and tactical tips to others.

I regard my style as powergaming, but that doesn't mean that I'm devoid of roleplaying, it's just that my style has more powergaming elements. Also it differs very much from time to time. My ironman effort is quite powergamish. :cool:

If you just want a definition of powergaming it's better to do a search or as Splunge suggested, start a new topic. :)

Edited: About using mods etc, the only thing you cannot do is use any ToB "stuff", since this is SoA. There is a similar topic in the ToB forum in case you can't follow this.

@ Earl Grey - HLA's -- DOH! :doh:

I believe that I have removed the experience cap in one of my mods, so I don't know how I am going to deal with that at 3 million. We'll see.

As for the confusion spell issue, that was my initial concern because of a lack of chaotic commands. Obviously, now that I have the spell (and the shield of harmony) that concern is out. I just need to remember to keep up the spell when high level mages are around, because maze is a death sentence.

I didn't have much time to play last night, so I went off to the D'Arnise keep to get my flail. No major dangers to report as I apparently do not have the improved Tor'Gal installed any more (although I cannot remember when I took it off). I bought the sling of everard to handle the iron golem and provide me with a +5 weapon at this early stage in the game.

When I pick it up again this weekend I will finish my "todo" list from the last post.

@ Splunge - I remember most major danger points and have no need to do some of the really ugly ones like twisted rune (where there is such a large luck element), so I do think I can do this. Next, using a multi rather than dual class is helping (notwithstanding the general consensus that a dual class is more powerful than a multi in SOA) because I am actually tanking with this character a bit after sending the fodder in first. The extra "fighter" type levels helps the THAC0.

I cannot stress enough how important that stealth stat is for a ranger. When you add the cloak of non-detection, I can sneak up on things, whack them, and run away or finish the job with little danger. I seem to recall that there's a weapon (maybe a club) that allows continued damage after the round that it hits. If I am right, that will be my standard mage tactic. Sneak up, whack, run away, let his triggers and contingencies work while his spells fail, and then let him waste spells on undead and other summons. Once he's out of spells, then wade in and maul him. I will use my jelly form from the cloak of the sewers as a magic protection tactic as well (I wonder if that form can hit Kangaxx?)

Also, I actually believe that solo'ing this character may be easier than running around with a F/M/T. I, however, am not enough of a masochist to try both and compare.

@Splunge
If NPC dies ? If he can be resurrected then I will do it. That's why the spells and the RoR are for. IF the NPC is "chunkified" and cannot be resurrected (his portrait is gone) then I will start the whole game again.

@Earl Grey
I plan to use HLA's in SOA. Weimers enemies are cheesy too. Ever played Improved Irenicus on Insane ? One of the best fights ever. Close to Ascension.

Well, Leslie, if you decide to use HLA's then you are not allowed to post here. You must keep stuff like that in the ToB forum.
It's forum rules. :book:

Edited: I also notice that you list a ToB item in your previous post. This is not allowed!

[ October 04, 2003, 00:47: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

Was it dmc who first introduced ToB elements to this topic in the SoA-only forum? No matter, because by now these last few posts have been full of ToB references. This forum is for people who have SoA WITHOUT ToB. This is specified in the forum descriptions. If you play the SoA part of the game with ToB installed, you need to post in the ToB forum. So from this point on I don't want to see any mention of anything coming from ToB in here. Thank you.

About HLA's - i'll keep that in mind. :)

Anyway - a qucik upade on my party: we kicked Maevar, then decided that Haer'Dalis would be very happy if he used Celestial Fury. Entered Guarded Compuond, buffed like crazy, ran upstairs and then downstairs, attacked Koshi and his friends and - we have the mighty katana. But I completely forgot about Kuroisan - ha wants it too ! He fled in the first fight and a day later we met againg. A lot of hiding, potions of invis., breaching, dispelling, ... went on and he finally fell after a Greater Malison + Emotion. Cool - another Belt of Inertial Barrier and Boots of Avoidance. Not to mention the cheesy katana - which I probably won't use unless really needed.

Oh, and with help of Shield of Balduran and a Scroll of Protection from Undead (there is nasty lich with a lot of friends guarding the DEX gauntlets - Tactics Mod) we completed the Unseeing eye quest.

I will stop posting in this topic and continue posting in the ToB forum here (http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=002293).

Edited:
I finished SoA today. Check the ToB thread for more.

[ October 05, 2003, 22:12: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]