This is the video of Canadian policemen killing a Polish citizen at the airport:

http://wiadomosci.o2.pl/?s=258&t=430286

The procedures specify that before tasers, gas is to be used. Also, tasers are to be shot once and it was claimed that the Pole was being aggressive, which was to be why another shot was fired.

Now it looks like "aggressive" was wiggling his limbs in pain and terror. Apparently, a man lying down and waving his limbs is aggressive and poses danger to a police squad.

Now my question is why were the prodecures not followed. Why did they shoot at a man lying down and obviously waggling in pain or terror.

Wasn't this perhaps because he didn't speak English? Or maybe because he wasn't an American or Canadian or French or German citizen?

We've already had ideologies believing that someone who didn't speak a certain language or didn't come from a certain nationality wasn't fully human. Are those ideologies still present now, including countries which are supposedly paragons of democracy and progress?

To be honest... what was he doing? Why was he throwing stuff around and being weird? He wasn't exactly acting mentally stable. He won't have been permanently hurt, and didn't look like the kind of person who's behaviour you can predict. Police were probably right here for me. But I don't like the idea of Tazers - not really necessary.

He won't have been permanently hurt

Well, I can't read the Polish article, if we are to believe Chev, the guy is dead. That sounds pretty much permanently hurt if you ask me.

Dead from a tazer... ? He seemed to be still moving to me by the end of the video.

Dude, read the article. It says he died. What part of "Zauważa także, że policjanci strzelali do niego dwukrotnie z paralizatora ładunkiem 50 tys. woltów. Nie wiadomo, czy na miejsce wezwano pomoc medyczną." don't you understand?

For those who don't speak the language, I put the article into an online translator. This should clear things up quite a bit:

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Or there's this which is actually in english: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/15/taser.death/index.html

(For clarification, I in NO WAY mean to make light of this man's death. Only to make light of the online translator that gave me something very "backstroke of the west"-like and funny.

Another recent article in English (this is my first post on the new board so I hope I've properly linked to it). http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/071115/n_top_news/news_taser_col
This article highlights the incident and some of the fallout to international relations.

The controversy surrounding this keeps growing. First the RCMP acted like you can see in the video. Then they tried to confiscate the video tape. They'd originally promised return it to the guy who made it and handed it over, but then claimed that they might hold onto it for a few years. This was addressed in a suit against the RCMP that forced them to return it... doesn't really add to their PR now does it? Another issue is towards the internal review that the RCMP are conducting. Many want it done by an independent. Go figure.

As this thread's existence illustrates, the man's unjust treatment (With four officers, why not try to restrain\cuff him before tasering) and subsequent death is being watched by many. Also, this is another example of why the Taser needs to be reexamined. Sure, it reduces incidents involving guns, but its becoming too much of a first response weapon for my liking - not to mention the foolish use at the hands of people apparently trained in its operation.

Also, an article on how the tape appears to contradict the police: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071114/national/airport_taser

To be honest... what was he doing? Why was he throwing stuff around and being weird? He wasn't exactly acting mentally stable. He won't have been permanently hurt, and didn't look like the kind of person who's behaviour you can predict. Police were probably right here for me. But I don't like the idea of Tazers - not really necessary.

He had spent 10 hours at the airport without knowing the language, which probably triggered some extreme stress reaction. The police violated the procedures - they should have used pepper gas first and then, even after the first taser shot, the second one was completely unnecessary and it was fired when he was already waggling on the ground.

Here's a translation of the article. Quotations won't match because I translated back from Polish, as I didn't have enough time to look for the original English ones:

[start]

After the coming into light of the recording made by one of the witnesses at the Vancouver airport, the media in Canada are shocked and outraged with the use of force by the Police on the Pole who - as it has turned out - was not aggressive.

The recording displayed Wednesday evening has caused the death of the 40 year old Robert Dziekański and comments on the actions of the police to become the main subject of Canadian press and television on Thursday.

According to the daily "Toronto Star", the recording shows the Pole died in torment, "giving out animal screams." The newspaper points out the film was so drastic that the mother of the Pole could not watch the entirety of the recording, which was constantly being repeated in the media.

The daily paper underlines that the recording negates that - as the Police claimed before - Dziekański was being aggressive. "In his eyes was evident terror" - it quotes witnesses. It points out also that the policemen fired at him twice from a taser with a charge of 50 thousand Volt. It is not known whether medical assistance was called.

According to the police, after the first shot, the man remained, "able to fight" - writes Toronto Star. The newspaper brings it to attention, however, that the local procedures recommend the use of a baton or pepper gas.

The investigation in the case of the Pole's death may take up to six weeks.

Responsible for matters of public safety in the shadow cabinet of the opposing New Democratic Party, Mike Farnworth says in "Vancouver Sun" that what the film shows, "is horrible, very drastic." He points out the necessity of conducting an independent investigation in this case. "The society will see it and will ask many questions," says the politician.

Another important daily from British Columbia - "The Province" - makes readers familiar with the history of the recording made by a tourist coming back from China. The 25 year old Paul Pritchard shot it from the distance of 3 metres from the place of action. It lasts 10 minutes whole.

The author adds that the police received the video immediately and did not want to return it. It gave it back only after Pritchard petitioned the court for its return. He passed it immediately to the attorney representing the mother of Dziekański, Mrs Zofia Cisowska.

"The death of the Polish-born Mr Dziekański was shocking and probably avoidable (...). The mind cringes at the thought that a human is able to invent the taser, but not able to work out a method of intervention in such a delicate situation without killing a human being," writes Toronto-based The Globe and Mail in its op-ed.

The main point in the newspaper's reflections is the application of tasers and the results of their use. In Canada, over the last five years, 17 people have already died at the hands of policemen using that weapon.

[end]

If you ask me, they should have skipped the gas and the taser, and gotten the man a ****ing translator. It was obvious to all the bystanders that a translator was needed. Why wasn't it to the cops?

If you ask me, they should have skipped the gas and the taser, and gotten the man a ****ing translator. It was obvious to all the bystanders that a translator was needed. Why wasn't it to the cops?

I'm not touching that one with a 10 foot pole. Especially considering that I live in Canada, and the Mounties always get their man! I'm in no hurry to get tasered...

Seriously, I think I heard about this. The guy died later in police custody if I remember correctly...

Actually, he died from getting tasered a second time....

How much of a shock do tasers give out? Two shouldn't really kill a man should it?

I had no idea that a taser can kill

That's a shocking news, actually I read it this morning in the paper or on the internet not sure. I think it's the proof of post 9/11 paranoia is still present in the western world. Airport security level have gone higher and higher since 9/11, well it seems this is the result of paranoia. Personaly I would've asked for someone who speak Polish before resorting to violence. Especially hard to swallow since Canada is supposed to welcome everyone. I can't believe this senseless violence has gone here...

Anyway my opinion remains the same, airport security has gone mad.

I'm not touching that one with a 10 foot pole.

and

That's a shocking news

If I didn't know better, I'd say you guys were making light of this man's death. I think it's a pretty poor choice of words on your part.

Barmy - while Tasers aren't SUPPOSED to kill people, it has happened in the past. Obviously, if Tasers routinely killed people then there would be no reason for police to use them instead of guns.

Tasers tend to kill when the tasee has a pre-existing condition that the 50,000 volts sets off. The stress of your first flight in your life being half way around the world and then being stuck in a strange airport for 10 hours probably had his stress and blood pressure through the roof. The kneeling on his chest and neck most likely didn't help, either.

How much of a shock do tasers give out? Two shouldn't really kill a man should it?

50K Volt in this case.

And it looks like he had surrendered. Can't go further than putting hands over your head.

What a load.

It was a really sad incident. They aired an interview with the mother on TV last night. She came over to the airport from Kamloops and was waiting for the guy for 6 hours in the designated waiting area. Since he didn't know any English and didn't have the wits to follow all the other people going out that way, they never met. The mother tried finding her son's name on the list of passengers but was told there was no Dziekański on the plane and told her to go home. (I seriously question why a name search would fail...) So she left, drove ~4 hours back home, found a message on the answering machine that he was there, caught a train all the way back to the airport, and found out her son died in such a careless way.

I feel really bad for her. They were THAT close to meeting and none of this would have happened. If only someone had just taken the effort to be slightly more patient and helpful to either one of them...

It underlines to me that the label non-lethal is highly misleading and suggests careless use. Along Paracelsus line about poison: (a) Every weapon is a weapon, and (b) thus can kill, depending on the intensity of its use. Just because it doesn't bleed, it doesn't mean it doesn't kill. It is worth keeping in mind that there is a reason why cops aren't armed with cushions, simply because cushions don't hurt. The whole point of cops being armed is to enable them to coerce unwilling people into complying with the police if necessary, and to overcome resistance.

Tasers got vastly popular especially in the US after the police equipment market exploded after 911, and there is an increasing number of cases being reported where people have been killed by excessive use of Tasers, or where the repeated use of Tasers amounted to torture. Tasers look much nicer and more ambiguous than those old field telephones. One can always claim the need to restrain a refractory prisoner. In a nutshell, they are hardware fixes for software problems. More on Tasers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroshock_weapon
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr511392004

The language barrier is another point. I mean this is an airport. And when you're unable to communicate misunderstandings happen, which can be fatal. We had cases in Germany where people who didn't speak German suffocated when being arrested by the police. How could that happen? They initially resisted and were restrained. When they appeared to continue to resist that then was because they couldn't breathe with a cop on their back, let alone speak, and tried to get a breath, which in return was interpreted as resistance by the cop, who then used more force to restrain that particularly stubborn prisoner.

This is the effect of piss poor training, period.

AFI: I wasn't making a polish joke. It didn't hit me until several hours later the word I used. The bit about the RCMP however was a joke...

It happened again: "Family identifies man who died after taser strike"
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/displayBreaking.htm?StoryID=67806

As I said, non lethal?

As I said, non lethal?

I worked for a while as a civilian (IT) in a police department. They had a number of tools for situations like this--pepper spray, tasers, shotguns that fired beanbags--and they made it a point to always refer to them as 'less lethal' options. It was for the very points you mention, namely, that any of them can still cause death if used improperly or if you're flat unlucky.

There are a number of bad things going on in this incident, which have already been highlighted--improper use of the tools, poor training, lack of a translator, and standard 'OMG terrorist' paranoia.

50K Volt in this case.

It's not the voltage that'll kill you, but the amperage.

Well IIRC, 'banana republics' kept the taser market alive back in the 70's when these things were taboo in America because the dictators would use them as torture devices - some models will give an initial shock when the darts strike, but then each time the trigger is pulled, another charge is sent.

It's not the voltage that'll kill you, but the amperage.

Aye, the duration of the shock can be the factor that determines whether heart rhythm is interrupted terminally. (gawd, that sounds so dispassionately clinical :( )

From your description (i really don't WANT to watch the video) it's likely the victim wasn't flopping around in fear but having involuntary spasms from the residual effect of the first shock - his motor nervous system was overloaded and still going haywire.

Thinking dispassionately, it would be clear that a second shot would be unnecessary, and indeed, likely VERY harmful. That said, it was a situation of split-second thinking, and it's amazingly easy to second-guess with the benefit of hindsight, but in the end, the officer(s) responsible made a judgment call...

AND WERE WRONG; A MAN DIED.

This issue is really no different than the 'friendly-fire bombing' of Canadian soldiers in the field by two US Air National Guard pilots a few years back; these people are given positions were we expect them to make instant judgment calls with the potential for serious harm or death of others. And when all is said and done, they exhibited poor judgment resulting in others' death.

Do they deserve to be punished? No. We PUT them in this position, they merely weren't up to the task we gave them, and it's really unfortunate.

Now should they KEEP these positions after having an example of bad judgment on record?
NO
The pilots should not be assigned combat roles, but keep their positions in the Air National Guard (and their regular gigs as airline pilots) and the security officials/police officers should be moved to 'desk jobs' out of the field.

Anyways, I hadn't realized that post-9/11 America rethought its stance on tasers - I had read several instances of law enforcement agencies decrying these things as unnecessarily cruel, back in the 70's and 80's.

I was also unaware that the RCMP et alles up here had these things in their arsenal; I'll be emailing my MP today about getting them removed from use, especially in light of this debacle.

From your description (i really don't WANT to watch the video) it's likely the victim wasn't flopping around in fear but having involuntary spasms from the residual effect of the first shock - his motor nervous system was overloaded and still going haywire.

So the cops were idiots and they mistook the effect of their own weapon for aggressive behaviour?

On the other hand, I agree with what you wrote about judgement call. I don't want the cops prosecuted for homicide. I suppose in a civil society the knowledge of what happened should be enough and making the cops liable won't undo the death, if there was no contempt or malice involved.

I was also unaware that the RCMP et alles up here had these things in their arsenal; I'll be emailing my MP today about getting them removed from use, especially in light of this debacle.

:)

So the cops were idiots and they mistook the effect of their own weapon for aggressive behaviour?

As much as I hate to belittle people (especially behind their back here where I'm pretty sure they're not SP subscribers), I have to agree with the italicised part above:

a) they ignored common sense while holding an individual that they couldn't understand and couldn't understand them in NOT GETTING A TRANSLATOR (they had to have known what language they'd need because of a little thing the man HAD to present to them...a PASSPORT.)
b) they broke the 'esclation of force' procedure detailed elsewhere by skipping the pepper spray and going straight to the taser,
c) they responded incorrectly to the results of their taser attack, quite possibly due to poor/absent training on the device and not understanding of the likely results from it (violent spasming).

Essentially, it's almost as bad as reading a police incident report saying:
The perpetrator refused to comply with my verbal commands to lie down, so I deployed my pepper spray and hit the perp in the eyes. When he began to scream and flail his arms around, but still refused to lie down, I feared he was going to charge so I drew my sidearm and shot the perp. :toofar:

Unfortunately, another factor comes to my mind - adrenaline was likely pumping through the officers' bloodstreams, clouding rational judgment and encouraging 'fight/flight instinct.' Pity. Maybe not putting hulking mesomorphs with adrenal glands the sizes of soccerballs for this sort of role might be a better human resources priority? :(

This incident has been drawing HUGE commentary in Canada -- every radio talk show is howling for RCMP blood. To a certain degree I agree with them. There have been a number of tazer deaths here in Canada, though the statistics still say that being hit with one is not likely to kill you. ANY weapon can kill a person if the person is particularly susceptible to it -- there is no such thing as a 100% non-lethal intervention -- even bare hands can be unintentionally lethal.

That said, the airport personnel are airheads (I use the term as a euphemism for a more appropriate "A" word) for making a person sit in the holding area for 10 hours without trying to find him a translator. I don't excuse his throwing around of computer equipment and the other stuff he did, but he never attacked another human and he was likely tired, frustrated, and probably hungry to boot. It's understandable he'd snap and go a little crazy.

Why the 4 (four!) policemen who responded thought that a Tazer was the right way to go as opposed to the four of them just wrestling him down is totally beyond me. Likely they had paranoia pumping through their veins as well. They've probably used Tazers a lot (as I said, Tazers are lethal only in rare instances) and had no thought that this would be one of the exceptions to the non-lethal nature of the weapon.

My understanding of this story is that it is a 'comedy' of errors that isn't very bloody funny. There was a miscommunication with his mother, so she was not there to translate for him, and then no-one had the know-how or desire to talk to him. When he started acting aggressive, people thought he was a violence risk, and then the police charged in, likely having been told he had been violent toward people, and overreacted. That should have been the end of it but sadly it ended in a death. This is likely going to sour Canadian / Polish relations for some time now. I heard the Polish ambassador on the news and he is quite strident in his demand for an inquiry. I can't blame him.