So I'm playing through the whole saga and decided to change the NPCs up a bit. Currently I'm in BG1 with tutu. My PC is a Berserker to be dualed in BG2. I changed Branwen into a Fighter and dualed her to a cleric at level 3 to more fit her being a Warpriest, but her personality is starting to bore me. So I'm looking for some more alternative NPCs when I stumbled on some other board talking about Minsc as a Paladin despite him not having any where near minimum stats (didn't stop Bioware breaking the rules with other NPCs).

So what do you guys think about Minsc being a Paladin? If he could pass as a Paladin what kit would he have or would he be a vanilla?

Note if I change him to a Paladin in tutu I'll keep him the same in SOA and TOB.

From a RP perspective I'm not sure if it would work, because I don't think that one so...cognitively challenged...would fit in the paladin role.

From a power perspective its fine. Unless you are playing with Improved Anvil or some other awesomely difficult mod, the game can be beaten without difficulty by any combo of classes.

well he's not exactly wise enough to be a Ranger either, but that's explained by the knock on the head shortly before he shows up in Nashkel. I'm thinking maybe a kit that loses special abilities like lay on hands. I just think its interesting concept with all his talks of goodness and such. Then he could be the Paladin that loses his cool occasionally with is berserk ability.

Minsc isn't an arrogant jerk like paladins, which seems to be their class feature. In BGII, for example, Keldorn and Anomen consider most quests below them and like to focus on killing demons and dragons. Minsc however, helps a little boy and couple half dead men in need and doesn't just tell them to bugger of and let the guards handle it.
He is a goodhearted person, he does good things because it's the right thing to do, not because the law or some knight codes told him to.

Paladins don't lose their cool. Men who have feelings, like Minsc, do.

Also, he doesn't worship any paladin deity, since he's born in Rashemen.

Paladin? sure they are suppose to be a force of righteousness or goodness, and help those in need and protect the weak, but thats not how they really work in BGII, like Trellheim said, they are more concerned with fighting evil creatures than injustices, something Minsc often talks about, He forgets the PC's main concerns for a bit to go help a little boy.

Rangers share a few virtues with Paladins, but they are more good hearted people, they show more emotion.


if you have Keldorn or Anomen in your party while doing the Sir Sarles quest do they even say anything with either Jaheira or Minsc, identifies Neb as a child murderer?

cause Minsc sure as hell does, "I trust those who prey on children no farther than they can be thrown, even if i manage to throw them pretty far, and throw them i shall!!"



Though it is kinda weird how Minsc seems to refer to himself as both a Ranger (Hamster's and Rangers everywhere rejoice) and a Berserker (The bars, they bend and break with my berserker strength). He seems to be somewhat of a combination of the two, but I dont see him as a Paladin, not "good" enough, nor does he has that "holier than thou" mindset.

From an RP point of view I'd say that Minsc is too chaotic to be a Paladin. Sure, he's as good as they go, but he doesn't really care much about the law, when he sees injustice or cruelty he acts upon it based upon his own view of justice, and I don't think he'd even think twice before cutting a truly evil man in half, in spite of whether the guy was juridically without guilt.

That aside, if you want him to be a Paladin then go ahead, it's your game after all :).

Agreed with a lot of the sentiments here. I could never try to pass Minsc as a paladin in one of my games. That's just a square peg in a round hole to me. Minsc is way too free spirited and whacky to live the extraordinarily rigid life of a paladin. He makes a good ranger, berserker, or barbarian, perhaps even a straight fighter. But I couldn't do paladin.

But then again, this isn't my game we're talking about here. So do what's fun for you. :)

I pretty much agree with all of you now that I think of it. I haven't played with him lately to remember word for word what he says. I was just curious what others thought about the idea. I really just didn't want to play with Minsc in BG1 as he always is (for the sheer fact I've done it enough) nor did I want to switch him to a berserker because my party doesn't need 2 berserkers in it. I'll just look else where for party additions.

Well if you post your current party we'll be more than happy to help you decide whom to take :) (if you need our help, that us ;)).

Currently I'm have

PC Berserker (to be dualed to mage in BG2)
Imoen Swashbuckler 5/Mage X (still waiting for theif to come back)
Branwen Fighter 3/Cleric X(Changed her just for fun)
Garrick Skald (he's only effective for Lore)
Monty (Picked him up cover Imoen's thieving while I wait for those abilities to come back)
Xan

I literally just picked up Coran. I threw out Xan for him because Xan wasn't doing anything for me that Imoen hadn't been matching. I'm looking to replace Monty, Garrick, and possibly Branwen if she gets annoying enough. It would be a change of pace to use some of the NPCs that you pick up in and/or after Cloakwood because I'm a chronic restarter and haven't had much chance to use any of them much yet. I would like to have someone using a Xbow because its fun for me to use different kinds of weapons. I'm also considering picking up Kivan even if I've used him often enough. I'm not against changing NPCs profs/class as long as its in spirit of the character. PS this is tutu if you didn't catch that before.

Why not grab Ajantis if you want a Paladin? Yeslick would do nice for a replacement for Branwen, and he's a Fighter/Cleric as well. Tiax is good fun, but IMHO not really worth your while.

I can only agree about Xan. And he's so freaking annoying as well...

What about aloora for a second thief? With 19 DEX you have yourself a fine archer.

Minsc is much more fun as a barbarian.

I don't need a paladin I just was curious about adding Minsc into the party as one. Ajantis annoyed me in my last half play through. He was decent fighting wise, but I'm sick of hearing about Helm....

If i were to choose 2 of these 4 for my archers/second thief, who should I?

Alora
Coran
Monty
Kivan

Any other suggestions?

I'd grab Coran and Aloora, unless you're confident that Imoen will be capable of dealing with all traps alone, in which case I'd take Coran and Kivan.

Coran and Kivan seconded.

You could change Minsc to a Barbarian, more HP and fits the character.

So I have another question. Should I have my Berserker-->Mage use Long Swords or Quarterstaves? Long Swords seem to be more fun because once I hit BG2 there's plenty to use and upgrade constantly plus there's a +2 one found early in tutu. Quarterstaves on the other hand have a greater damage potential and I could use the Staff of Magi to its full use, but the best option in tutu without TtSC (which I don't have) is a quarterstaff +1.

Greater damage potential? Quarterstaves do 1d6 damage, longswords do 1d8.
The longsword Varsona +2 does additionally +1 cold damage, meaning 4-11 base damage. The only good quarterstaff without TotSC does 2-7 base damage.

Warhammers are fun too, and berserkerish. Ashideena +2 does 1d4 +3, +2 cold damage = 6-9 base damage. In BGII there's a long wait however. :nolike:

If you plan to use quarterstaves in the future (a good choice), choose quarterstaves and two handed weapon style. Add a second weapon (halberds, two-handed sword, or spear) at your first opportunity. All you need to get to is *** in any weapon -- beyond *** is really more preference than usefulness.

Also realize, by later in SoA you'll be predominantly a mage. Unless you're solo, you'll be spreading the wealth (i.e., giving the items to those who wield them best). You really want to give yourself specialties in weapons others will not use effectively.

Greater damage potential? Quarterstaves do 1d6 damage, longswords do 1d8.
The longsword Varsona +2 does additionally +1 cold damage, meaning 4-11 base damage. The only good quarterstaff without TotSC does 2-7 base damage.
I meant with 2-handed weapon style and with staves in TOB like Staff of the Ram +6, IIRC there isn't a +6 longsword.


Warhammers are fun too, and berserkerish. Ashideena +2 does 1d4 +3, +2 cold damage = 6-9 base damage. In BGII there's a long wait however. :nolike:

That Warhammer always seems to go into my cleric's hands plus if I'm looking towards being "berserkerish" I'd use axes and longswords.



If you plan to use quarterstaves in the future (a good choice), choose quarterstaves and two handed weapon style. Add a second weapon (halberds, two-handed sword, or spear) at your first opportunity. All you need to get to is *** in any weapon -- beyond *** is really more preference than usefulness.

Also realize, by later in SoA you'll be predominantly a mage. Unless you're solo, you'll be spreading the wealth (i.e., giving the items to those who wield them best). You really want to give yourself specialties in weapons others will not use effectively.

Would 5 stars be more worthwhile with the Grandmaster true fix?
Any examples of good ways to "spread the wealth" though I'm not too worried about BG2 right now?

Five *'s is definately worthwhile with the Grand mastery fix -- but your opponents will have the fix as well, this could make portions of ToB... painful.

Nobody really uses spears or halbreds (although Jaheira is incredible with spears and Sarevok rocks with a certain halberd).
Only mages use staves (except a cleric/thief:)) -- as pointed out, there are very good ones.
Not many NPC's use throwing daggers or darts -- there are a couple of good ones.
Short bow is a good skill to have.

The only +6 weapons in the game are two handed weapons: a sword, spear, halbred, and staff.

As far as the NPC's you can look at many different help guides that discuss them in detail. Any of them (as well as many on the boards) could help with who is most efficient with what. But I've given too many spoilers already.

Though it is kinda weird how Minsc seems to refer to himself as both a Ranger (Hamster's and Rangers everywhere rejoice) and a Berserker (The bars, they bend and break with my berserker strength). He seems to be somewhat of a combination of the two, but I dont see him as a Paladin, not "good" enough, nor does he has that "holier than thou" mindset.
The berserker skills comes from his origin. He's from Rashemen, those are known as warriors who are being taught from childhood to go berserk in battles.

Iwasn't saying he isn't a barbarian, i was just commenting on the fact he refers to himself as two different classes, almost like his class should be Ranger/Barbarian (err or Barbarian/Ranger, however mutliclasses are decided).

almost like his class should be Ranger/Barbarian (err or Barbarian/Ranger, however mutliclasses are decided).
Actually, multi- and dual-classes can't happen in the same class "group". Warriors, Wizards, Priests, and Rogues. Barbarian and Ranger are both warriors, so a cross wouldn't be possible.

I said "should". I am fully aware of the fact that, that combination, (outside of SK) is impossible

I said "should". I am fully aware of the fact that, that combination, (outside of SK) is impossible

not even SK could make that combination work

But I'm convinced Minsc wouldn't make a paladin now. I'm playing with him as a Barbarian in another game, but haven't had enough time to really play with him yet.

I've never really used SK for anything other than giving me items that the game for some reason didn't. Did the Mail of the Dead get removed with a mod or Patch? because i don't see to get it anymore.

kinda off topic, so back to Minsc as a Paladin, no I don't really see him as one, he isn't "Good" enough, he will often resort to swords not words, when paladins, when not fighting evil becuase of the high charisma can be pretty persuasive people, and can convince people to do something or hand something over without threats, or violence.

Plus Paladin's are mostly noble, and look down at the commoners. This is not Minsc. Paladins are supposed to be these exceptionally learned people. Minsc obviously isn't, and that has nothing to do with his head wound.

Usually paladins depend on their deity. A paladin who has Helm or Red Knight as deity tends to be more focused on the combat than on the charity&redemption deeds. A paladin of Lathander or Ilmater is exactly the opposite.
Minsc fits perfectly with Chaotic Good though, I can't see him as lawful.
Unless, of course, you want to wait for the 4E to be released. Then you'll have paladins of all alignments and you can even make Edwin a paladin.:p

Unless, of course, you want to wait for the 4E to be released. Then you'll have paladins of all alignments and you can even make Edwin a paladin.

not sure he would like that, he seems to enjoy being a mage. He's quite proud of being a wizard from Thay

Yeah, I was responding to your should. It's not allowable by 2e rules.

I knew it wasnt allowed, I was just commenting.

Like how Jaheira's class should be Avenger rather than FIghter/Druid.

While that isn't quite the same as that one IS allowed, I was just referring to the fact that he seems to be more than a mere pure class Ranger. the really ought to be some Barbarian or Berserker in there, but of course game mechanics/Rules do not allow for that.