ive read previous posts about how great these classes are. i made a kensai mage yesterday and i wonder "WTF would you choose a KENSAI mage for when you can just make a FIGHTER mage and be able to wear armor when your out of spells to cast, and you can actually wear helmets with a fighter mage.

then i tried a kensai/theif and i wonder...WHY in gods free world would you dual class a kensai to a theif if you can dual a fighter to a theif? you can actually WEAR all that awesome leather/studded leather armor with a fighter dualed to a theif. and you are just as good at fighting as a kensai/theif.

dont flame me please, thanks

Well, I dualclassed my Kensai to a thief due to the kick-ass benefits a Kensia gets that a "simple" fighter lacks; if you d/c your char at, say level 14, you really should have enough hitpoints to engage in close combat w/o getting in severe trouble; so much for armor. next thing is the incredible combination of speed factor decrease and attacks/round advance; you deal out lethal damge before your enemy knows he's dead, thus providing you with excellent possibilities for backstab(keyword kai here)/normal fighting; IF your victim survives your sneaky attack, you just whirl through him and the rest of his posse. I think I don't need to mention the damage and to hit boni... -12 main hand -9 off-hand THAC0 definetly rocks! neither do I know what's so difficult about seeing the possibilities of a kensai/mage; a) when you run out of spells in a fight you can't slip into this lightweigtht fullydecoratedtoetoneckheavysteelsuit, you keep fighting as ordinary fighter; as kensai otherwise just jump in the carnage with your two magic longswords and finish off the battle within seconds!

I personally do see the benefits of the Kensai class, as well as those of dual-classing one to either a thief or a mage. Firstly, Kensai have a small (-2) AC bonus, but on top of that, they also get a +2 to hit and damage every 4 (I think) levels. When you combine that with the Kai ability, you have an offensive powerhouse.

I personally like the Fighter/Mage over the Kensai/Mage, but only because the Bracers of AC 3 are extremely useful to keep from getting splattered by monsters. But I do see why so many people go for the Kensai.. they are offensive dynamos.

Kensai are absolutely devastating compared to the run-of-the mill fighters.

I've read the posts as well (others than the one's here) that are obviously 'true believers' of the Kensai "dual classed" character. But after reviewing all the details I still am not a 'true believer'. Any Mage protection spells cast from a Kensai/Mage can be dispelled (Breach -takes all of those Stoneskins and Mirror Images out). Likewise a True Fighter can have -14 to -15 AC in this game with *specific items* (not including any spells) that also give defensive bonuses to Chrushing\Slashing\Missile\Piercing attacks on top of the negative armor class. I played a Kensai/Thief and... stopped by Chap 4. Just not powerful enough for *my* style of play as the 'frontline monster killer'. I need someone up front who is Offensively & Defensively incredible. So I started a Fighter/Thief ( -11AC, 4-5 Attacks/Round, X5 Backstab, 140%Stealth,etc...)and am thrilled with his power. I'm in Chap 6 now and he is devestating.

BUT as always 'to each his/her own', everyone here purchased the game and can play it any way they like! :)

Firstly, I will not defend or attack the Kensai D thief class until I have time to play it fully. I think I will like the fighter D thief better, though.

Secondly, Kensai mages work well for warriors. You are correct. It does suck that you can't get -15 AC. I probably will not even get -10 with mine. But you can't cast spells with anything other than elven chain+1. Sure you can wear other armor, but you can't change armor during a fight anyway. And how often do you really run out of spells. Rarely happens. And sense armor seems to be the only argument, I see no reaon in using it until you can get some decent armor to be worn while casting spells.
Always is nice to have bracers the helmets, though.
Now, a nice advantage is the fact that when you dual to a mage from a kit, it apears you get the spell number advantage of a specialist mage(1 extra spell/level). And with the right equipment, my character has never worried about loosing HP(except when fighting the shadow dragon). If you have Dex 18, the robe of Venca AC5(Also reduce casting time by 4), ring of regeneration and ring +2(or ring of Gaxx), gem of +10%hp, boots of avoidance, golden girdle, Dak'kon's Zerth blade, and possible a robe of the sewers, you have a good AC. I know an AC of -10 to -15 is nice, but you don't need it. My character can go toe to toe on the front line without ever needing healing and rarely drinking potions of healing. He fires spells super quick, can memorize more than a fighter mage, and is a complete bad ass dualing with Celestial Fury.
If you still have doubts, use shadow keeper to make a trial character with the items listed above. Dual at level 9.

I can see everyone's points regarding Kensai D mage, but no kit is perfect. I still do not like the Kensai kit, but I am a firm believer in dualing to a mage from it. I could play it safe with a fighter D mage, but I like the advanteges the other way. I have found not a single reason to dislike it yet :)

[This message has been edited by Crawl (edited November 14, 2000).]

Two comments for what they're worth:
(1) Kensai-mage rocks. No armour - straight power.
(2) Fighter-thief rocks. Great armour possibilities (mine's currently wearing the black studded leather) with backstab benefits. I started trying a Kensai-thief, but gave up because of the armour restrictions.