A really tragic event has befallen this country! Not only are the monks and people fighting for democracy, now Burma has had a cyclone hit that has killed 15,000 people+. I feel for them. :(

Burma has had a cyclone hit that has killed 15,000 people+ :(

Damn. :(
Horrible news.

Latest reports I saw on TV today suggested 22,000 + dead. When did they start calling this country Myanmar and why, if anyone could enlighten an ignorant geezer?

The death toll is much higher now -- over 22,000 with 41,000 missing.

And we in the US are still complaining about Katrina.

Edit: revmaf beat me to it. The English tended to butcher names whereever they went (Peking for example). As nations have gained independance they have changed their names to traditional pronunciations. The Union of Burma was changed to the Union of Myanmar in 1989 -- although many English speaking governments still refuse to accept the change. The name Myanmar is a derivation of Myanma and goes back to the Thirteenth century.

And we in the US are still complaining about Katrina.

I think we still complain about Katrina because we had plenty of notice and still couldn't convince everyone to evacuate.

From what I have read, the people in Burma had no notice.

What I'm primarily concerned with is the possibility that their rice fields may be permanently destroyed by saltwater.

I feel for the people in third world countries at the best of times, and when something like this happens, my heart goes out to those thousands of people who are dead. I used to live in a town of about 6500 people and I try to imagine all of them dead in one day, then expand from there. It boggles the mind.

What concerns me the most is the fact that the government of this country has what the radio this morning called "strict border controls". I am not sure what that means after the doublespeak but the fact is that aid is not getting there as fast as it could. Any government officials delaying aid to their people should be taken out and their gonads fed to the wild goats. It pisses me off no end.

Well at least they said that they'd be willing to let us in to do our damn job...
"Us" *shrugs* meh, I'm just a fundraiser...

...I get to talk to people about this several times a day. It's not that they haven't heard about it...well, some of them haven't...but it's breaking my heart...the sadness of this news and how I'm dwelling in it with them. I must be getting sick or something...

T2Bruno, thank you for the explanation, which makes perfect sense.

Iku-turso, I don't think you're getting sick - you're getting real. Most of us, me included, manage to insulate ourselves from the reality of such a major tragedy. If all the missing turn out to be fatalities, the death toll is going to approach that of the great tsunami several years ago.

The possibility of permanently destroyed rice fields is truly terrible. With rice supplies short everywhere this is a major blow to future food prospects for Myanmar.

This just gets worse and worse.

That tsunami killed 200,000 people, so if all missing are dead, it will still only be half of that disaster.

What I'm primarily concerned with is the possibility that their rice fields may be permanently destroyed by saltwater.

Agreed. And how many more will die through disease and malnutrition? Like most parts of the world, rice is a staple in the diet of these people. I use "these people" because I'm not sure what the people of Myanmar are called. I think when it was Burma they were called Burmese. But what now? :confused: Myanmarese? Myanmaran?

Actually, when the name is considered, Myanmar is the junta's name for Burma. The people and everyone else calls the country Burma. They have been speaking about the name quite a bit in Swedish media where they have explained the reasons for them using Burma instead of Myanmar. As they tell it the name Myanmar has no foundation among the populace and is junta ploy of somekind, don't have all the details. The point is that using Burma instead of Myanmar is not incorrect and not "imperialistic".

Names of Burma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Burma).

I feel for the people who have lost a friend or a family member. I hope they find the strength to continue with their lives and a way to overcome this hardship.

TGS brings a good poing - the true impact of the cyclone also includes the damage it has done to the infrastructure of the country and its economy (I'm including the agriculture here in this case). There is little more one can do for the dead, but the living may need our help.

I think we still complain about Katrina because we had plenty of notice and still couldn't convince everyone to evacuate.

From what I have read, the people in Burma had no notice.

What I'm primarily concerned with is the possibility that their rice fields may be permanently destroyed by saltwater.

The government had two days' warning. The Burmese disaster is, therefore, at least in part a governmental failure.

Rather like Katrina, come to think of it. Unsurprisingly--though heartbreakingly--the people of poor countries suffer more as a result of natural disasters than do the people of rich countries.

Some areas of the world just can't catch a break.

Today's newspaper quoted the junta saying "just give us the money, we'll make share it with those in need of help"

Right. Who's believing them? Hands up and hand down the money, or else...well, here we go again, I'm getting cynical about them opening the border, why bother when they can use the situation for political (and financial) purposes...

There is little more one can do for the dead, but the living may need our help.

The living certainly need our help, and I think that the vast majority of people in North America and Europe, as well as other developed countries, are more than willing to help the people who face possible death, starvation, or other privation. Whether or not we'll be able to help them in the face of political / criminal corruption is another matter.

I've always held that the real problem in the third world is corruption and human evil -- developed countries send billions of dollars worth of goods and other forms of aid, but evil warlords, thugs, and other degenerates steal it and very little gets to the people who truly need it. That's the real tragedy.

My :2c: on that is that yes, as we're putting a lot of money into helping those people and yes, as there are too many bad people stealing the benefits, the main problem still is that there's far too many people not giving a damn. It's understandable, there's plenty of reasons and I've heard almost every damn one of them.

One of the richest being "Oh, I'd like to help, but then I couldn't afford these designer clothes..." Yes. I'm sure her designer clothes are much more valuable to her than vaccinating someone against a disease or helping to build a well. It happens. I'm not cynical. I'm actually shedding tears for that little missy if she's not dressed in the latest fashion. :cry:

The living certainly need our help, and I think that the vast majority of people in North America and Europe, as well as other developed countries, are more than willing to help the people who face possible death, starvation, or other privation. Whether or not we'll be able to help them in the face of political / criminal corruption is another matter.

True, but sometimes it's better to offer help regardless of how much it reaches the people than not offer any. I think even the much-maligned oil-for-food might have made some improvements in the lives of the Iraqi, and the Saddam regime was about as bad in terms of oppression and corruption as you can get.

I think what's happening now is that help is being offered but the Myanmar government is just asking the offerers to leave the money at the door. The humanitarian aid workers are not willing to settle for that -- they want some reassurance that their aid will actually benefit the people in trouble. I hope that some sort of accomodation can be reached so the injured and endangered can get what they need.

As it should be. It's not about the money, it's about providing service to those in need. If the Government is going to interfere with that, then we should take our money and go home. Deliver the grain to the government and let's see them stuff that in a Swiss bank account...

Even if we deliver the grain to repressive governments, they hoard it,or they only feed it to their military, or they sell it for arms . . . . the antics of these regimes would be comical if they were not so bloody tragic. I know I'm making a contribution to the Red Cross and hoping with all my might that the victims will eventually get the aid they need.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7389541.stm looks like the government has allowed aid in.

That tsunami killed 200,000 people, so if all missing are dead, it will still only be half of that disaster.

True, I was thinking in terms of overall scale - and last report I heard put independent (non-Myanmar government) estimates of dead at near 100,000, so the same order of magnitude, at any rate.

I also heard on TV news - too lazy to look up source on net - that U.S. is considering air drops of aid to affected areas without permission of Myanmar government. Raises interesting questions - food bombs as act of - what? act of aid? act of violation of sovereignty? act of trespass? Myself, I would be for it, as long as the planes aren't in danger of being shot down.

That's where the international community needs to focus--the needs of the people. If the government doesn't like it, ASk them about the Taliban...

The government had two days' warning. The Burmese disaster is, therefore, at least in part a governmental failure.The important difference being that our government at least auspiciously has the infrastructure necessary to intervene successfully.

Myanmar's junta seized U.N. aid shipments Friday meant for a multitude of hungry and homeless survivors of last week's devastating cyclone, forcing the world body to suspend further help.

The aid included 38 tons of high-energy biscuits and arrived in Myanmar on Friday on two flights from Bangladesh and the United Arab Emirates.

"All of the food aid and equipment that we managed to get in has been confiscated," U.N. World Food Program spokesman Risley said.

"For the time being, we have no choice but to end further efforts to bring critical needed food aid into Myanmar at this time," he said.

At least 62,000 people are dead or missing in Myanmar, entire villages are submerged in the Irrawaddy delta and aid groups warned that the area is on the verge of a medical disaster.

The U.N. has grown increasingly critical of Myanmar's military rulers' refusal to let foreign aid workers into the country while the junta appeared overwhelmed and more than 1 million homeless people waited for food, medicine and shelter.

"The frustration caused by what appears to be a paperwork delay is unprecedented in modern humanitarian relief efforts," Risley said. "It's astonishing."

The junta said in a statement Friday it was grateful to the international community for its assistance — which has included 11 chartered planes loaded with aid supplies — but the best way to help was just to send in material rather than personnel.

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080509/ap_on_re_as/myanmar_cyclone;_ylt=Ak_Lwxl8QSD6.mBmt5mOg2JvaA8F) .

"/¤"!#%€(%¤/¤#&"!¤½!!!!

Ok.

Ok.

Military intervention anyone?

I found this article in a Danish newspaper (http://politiken.dk/udland/article506419.ece), which explains the junta's position.

Expert: Junta is clinging to control

The regime in Myanmar is afraid that the people will gain the courage to rebel if the country is invaded by relief workers, says expert.



What is the military junta of Myanmar thinking of?

Can't they see the huge disaster that has hit their country?

The growing number of lost lives these days and the tales of the enormous scope of the disaster seem to be sliding off the generals in Myanmar.

Control is the most important factor
The key word to an understanding of what is happening is Control.

Only through control can they maintain their iron grip on the people.

Which is why everything else comes in second place, tells several experts that politiken.dk have spoken to.

Afraid of resistance
»The situation in Myanmar at this time - no matter how critical it may be to the people - is, to the military junta, a matter of holding on to power at any cost. If large numbers of relief workers enter; firstly, the rest of the world will gain insight into the real scope of the disaster, and how little the military is doing to relieve the situation. But even worse: There is a risk that the people may gain courage and resist,« tells Mikael Gravers, ethnographer and assistant professor at the University of Aarhus.

It is through human contact that the people can see that there are other types of societies - with democracy and human rights.

Monks helped the victims
The military junta has refused to let relief workers into the country. But it has, over the last two days, received a few planes with relief aid - primarily through the UN. Authorities maintain that the country itself will organize the sharing of the aid. Today the UN has confirmed that the military has confiscated all the relief aid that was sent, and for this reason decided to halt flights into the country.

»The military's absence was evident already over the weekend. It was the monks who helped people - not the military. Now they want to be the ones dealing out the good stuff and seeing to it that their own supporters are first in line,« says Mikael Gravers.

Unwanted interference
Once the country had to open to relief workers and foreign press, reports on the country's condition would leak out in earnest. This would form the base for more critic, which in turn might start an avalanche with the people. This is why the regime keeps international society at a distance.

»They do not want to listen to the criticism from abroad. It is seen as direct insults and unwanted interference, tantamount to neocolonialism,« explains Mikael Gravers.

Suddenly they eat you
He explains that the military junta has its own control logic which means that they choose only to see the situation from their own perspective.

»These generals have been very little abroad, and their educational level is low. They are trained soldiers and for example have next to no university degrees, which could give them a general global perspective. So they are mostly thinking from within. This is why it is almost like speaking to lions and tigers and other wild animals: You can train them, but suddenly they eat you anyway. They only have their own logic, which they stubbornly hold on to, and that logic is about control,« tells Mikael Gravers.

Apparently the UN is going to resume shipmemts.

Link (http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20080509%2fBurma_visas_080509 )

The important difference being that our government at least auspiciously has the infrastructure necessary to intervene successfully.

Certainly. I'm not equating the two, merely pointing out that there are some similarities.

Recent news on CNN, MSNBC, and others (don't have a link, though) indicates that the Junta may be hoarding the relief the US and UN have sent and are distributing rotting food to the victims. People like that make me sick.

Yeah, I read in the LA Times a couple days ago that they are continuing with their export of rice and giving their own people the rice that's been flooded and rotted.

I've heard about the hoarding thing NOG referred to, but not the exporting that BTA's talking about.

This gets worse by the minute.

Oh, and another cyclone is on its way. (http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20080513%2fburma_newstorm_080 514)

Official sources now confirm the death toll to be almost 78,000. :(

There is speculationt hat the death toll could exceed that of the Tsunami from a few years ago...