Geomantic Sorcerer Kit v3 Released

The Geomantic Sorcerer Kit v3 is based on the Druidic Sorcerer Kit by Constant Gaw, resurrected by hlidskialf, and loosely based on the Geomancer prestige class from the AD&D 3rd Edition Masters of the Wild manual. The kit combines the sorcerer's spellcasting methods and spells with additional druidic spells and abilities and features its own unique tiered HLA progression and custom spells. Due to the limitations of the kit selection interface, the kit is not selectable at character creation, but if the player meets the kit requirements Aataqah the genie at the start of Chateau Irenicus might see fit to help the player remember their abilities as a Geomantic Sorcerer.

This release for Windows and OS X now allows the player select a portrait for their Geomantic Sorcerer as well as portraits for all of their basic druidic shape change animal forms: bear, cat, dog, leopard, moose, panther, rat, snake, and wolf.

Relevant links:
Download (http://www.gibberlings3.net/downloads/#geomantic)
Forum (http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showforum=28)
Project Page (http://www.gibberlings3.net/geomantic/index.php)
Readme (http://www.gibberlings3.net/readmes/readme-druidsor.html)

I have to say that when I read this character's description I found it really intriguing. It reminded me of a R.Feist character Pug which I really loved. But from what I've read in the rest of the readme this is one overpowered monster. You practically took a Cleric/Mage character and changed if from a slow leveling multi-class to a single class with sorc's exp. progression thus erasing the only drawback that C/M had. The penalties really aren't that high, the 15% less experience is considerably less than 50% less exp. that each of the C/M's classes received because of being a multi. STR and DEX aren't really needed for a sorc and you can survive just well with 16 CON. -1 casting speed again isn't that much.

And the HLAs are just too powerful. For ex:

"Union of Magic: This powerful spell sends out a 360 degree shockwave, causing everyone within its radius to become vulnerable to magic in all its forms, whether it be weaponry or spellcraft. All magical defense spells are eradicated, magical damage resistance is made nonexistent, magic resistance is lowered to nothing for 20 rounds, and all dispellable magics are removed."

This is like an auto-kill feature. It certainly sounds (and probably looks) impressive but it does way too much. Same thing is with Arcane Futility. I just believe that this would take all the fun out of a wizard vs wizard duel, which it's really a battle of minds with you trying to outsmart your opponent and predict and counter his moves. With these babies you are able to do it all with just one click.

I hope you took no offense from this post. Like I said, I would really be interested in giving this guy a shot but he needs to be toned down quite a bit. Maybe you could have the player choose a single school from both arcane and divine class and have the character be able to use only spells from those 2 schools. It would offer a lot of interesting combinations. Same thing is with HLAs, there's too much power in them.

I would really be interested in giving this guy a shot but he needs to be toned down quite a bit. Maybe you could have the player choose a single school from both arcane and divine class and have the character be able to use only spells from those 2 schools. It would offer a lot of interesting combinations. Same thing is with HLAs, there's too much power in them.

There's nothing stopping you from imposing those restrictions on yourself.

There's nothing stopping you from imposing those restrictions on yourself.

True, but I don't have enough character for that :D It's like with the teleportation shortcut, I have to keep debug mode off or sooner or later I'll start using it like mad :p

Weakling!!! :p

A number of the HLAs are really just there because the original kit this one was based off of had them and I was trying to keep as close to the original, while still providing a stable kit platform that was actually playable.

Yes, I do realize that on paper, a number of the abilities seem overpowered. And they probably are when it comes down to it. However, they don't remove the entire challenge from the game. Another thing to consider is that a number of the HLAs are something of a two edged sword. Sure, Arcane Futility is an excellent defense against magic strong enemies. However, it also wipes out any previously existing magical defenses already active on the player. I can recreate similar effects with the right spell combinations without the drawback. And the Arcane Futility only lasts 5 rounds.

Union of magic is even more of a double edged sword. It affects everyone, party members included. I know that in tough battles, one of the things I constantly have to be aware of is keeping stoneskin and other magical defenses up on my fragile casters at all times. While Union of magic is great in one way, affecting teammates is a real pain (for example I rarely use meteor swarm since it hits everyone).

So, yeah, they are probably overpowered in the right hands, but I've found in practice they tend to be less overwhelming. I appreciate your concern, and I have the same myself, but to be true to the source material the HLAs aren't going to be changing outside of bug fixes.

yah, union of magic sounds ridiculous. magic defense is what makes most creatures a challenge after level 20

Wouldn't that make spells like Spellstrike, Breech, Dispel Magic completely overpowered as well?

Those spells only rip away their buffs, but doesn't eradicate their MR. As for party members, it's easy to overcome that by 1) making them walk away or 2) not casting AOE spells, or those that affect party members. Abi-Dazim or Dragon's Breath comes to mind.

It does sound like a very overpowered class, but that Mordekainen's Multiplicative Magic Missile sound intriguing.

Yeah, it definitely reads as overpowered when compared to the other classes/kits in a vacuum. I've found in practice that the kit isn't an instant win by any means and tends to be a whole lot of fun. Which really was the main point.

Overpowered that makes things not fun = bad
Overpowered that makes things fun or more enjoyable = good.

Throw a few difficulty enhancing mods in there, and lower the xp rewards though using DEFJAM and any player can adjust the difficulty to their liking.

I largely wrote the kit for my own use, so I hope by offering it for download, others can get enjoyment out of it as well.

A lot of people are playing it obviously :)

It is not compatible with some mods, including IA though, yes? I have played Druidic Sorcerer in the past and it was fun, I definitely felt having an unique and powerful character, like a spawn of Bhaal should be.

It works fine with other mods.

The only effects are very slight reduction in targeting optimization by IA opponents and this should be unnoticeable by the vast majority of players. IA opponents should continue to slaughter your PC with their usual effectiveness and impunity. There's a thread over on the IA forums where this is gone over if you want to read about the details.

This was probably way more detailed than you wanted, but suffice it to say there shouldn't be any incompatibility issues. If you do run into something where the kit doesn't work or it breaks another mod, I'd love to hear about it so I can fix it.

Well I guess I could give this guy a go then, in the near future. Finding new and interesting characters for protagonists has become a challenge these days. Besides, I bet this guy can rip through all the nasty stuff that Sikret prepared in IA so it might be fun :D

Still, what about that idea for a character that could only use one arcane and one divine spell school? Not for this class but maybe for a new one... it could be interesting :p

Hmm, thanks for the info, however in those forums Sikret does not seem to agree they are hundred percent compatible. I understand and agree that the kit would cause a few enemies to have wrong targetting under very spesific conditions and/or will result in a slightly easier IA battles.

I trust Sikret knows the innards of his own mod very well and thus, until somebody tries and says they are really compatible, I do not wish to play it right now with IA... I will, however, immediately download your mod as I know it is very interesting, unique, cool beyond words and fun-promising! Thank you very much!

If you follow Sikret's guidelines on what is compatible strictly, then you are pretty much left with his "recommended to be installed along with IA" list that you can find in the IA readme. Each player has to decide how close they want to follow the recommended install list and how willing they are to experiment a little. From what I understand from that thread, the answer would have been much the same no matter what kit mod the question was asked about.

And if while playing, you run into something which makes the kit not fun, please let me know. I'm willing for some degree of unbalanced with regards to the vanilla kits, but not if it is making the game not fun. I'd prefer to avoid theorycrafting though.

This kit looks interesting. One thing I don’t understand, though - Chaotic Commands is included in the Tier 2 HLA “Bonus Spell Knowledge” (priest spells previously not given to druids). But druids normally get CC.

The reason I mention it is that, as an HLA, you won’t get CC until you’re at a high level, when CC becomes less important because your saves are already very good. This means that you might need another priest in your group just for the benefit of having CC at an earlier level. Personally, if CC was available to the Geomantic Sorcerer as a regular Level 5 spell, I could do without another priest, but I’d hate to “waste” a character slot for the sake of one spell.

Played it through BG1 via BGT and I enjoyed it.

The kit is strictly and strongly incompatible with IA and shouldn't be played with it. The problems are far more serious than some slight targeting issues.

Just one example;

The versions of Secret Word, Breach, Pierce Magic, Pierce Shield and Spellstikre spells cast by this kitted sorcerer bypass SI:abjuration! This is not a small targeting issue; it's rather a huge violation of the game's rules when IA is installed. Remember that IA tweaks/fixes SI:abjuration to block all abjuration spells (including the mentioned ones), but this very important rule will be violated if you play with this kit. You will easily breach an enemy mage despite being protected by SI:abjuration or will easily spellstrike him and remove all of his protections at once (while your other standard mages can't do this and while enemy mages can't do this with you either).

There are other problems as well. So, the bottom line is this: Don't use the kit together with IA if you want to play the game with a consistent set of rules.

As a side note, I suggested to Caedwyr to work on a separate IA-compatible version of his kit and I promised to help him in the process, but he replied that there is not enough audience for such a separate version of the kit and it is not worth the attempt.

SI: whatever shouldn't block all spells of that school just 1 for every 4 levels of the caster. so it sounds like a problem with your mod not his.
just my :2c:

SI: whatever shouldn't block all spells of that school just 1 for every 4 levels of the caster

If SI is working in that way in your game, you are probably in the wrong forum now. It's BG2 we are talking about; I'm not familiar with the game you are playing.

SI: whatever shouldn't block all spells of that school just 1 for every 4 levels of the caster. so it sounds like a problem with your mod not his.
just my


Eh? What are you talking about?

I don't agree with all the changes Sikret makes, but what you described is not how SI works. Not even in the vanilla game. IA is not at fault here.


As a side note, I suggested to Caedwyr to work on a separate IA-compatible version of his kit and I promised to help him in the process, but he replied that there is not enough audience for such a separate version of the kit and it is not worth the attempt.


Perhaps a bit of a shame, but fair enough. IA players represent quite a small minority of the BG community.

sorry my definition was 3.0/3.5 the original 2ed & the way it is listed in baldur's gate 2 is:

"Abjuration: Will protect you against Dispel Magic, Remove Magic and Imprisonment (including the demilich variant Trap the Soul). Will not protect you against Breach, Lower Resistance or any conventional spell protection removal (use Improved Invisibility for that)."
than sikret changed it to include all 5 of the spells he has a problem with it changing. so i don't see how he can say it is the kit's fault when he changed the spell in the first place. see what i am getting at.

The versions of Secret Word, Breach, Pierce Magic, Pierce Shield and Spellstikre All of these spells use the traditional wizard version. So whatever a normal wizard casts is what this kit would cast.

sorry my definition was 3.0/3.5 the original 2ed & the way it is listed in baldur's gate 2 is:

"Abjuration: Will protect you against Dispel Magic, Remove Magic and Imprisonment (including the demilich variant Trap the Soul). Will not protect you against Breach, Lower Resistance or any conventional spell protection removal (use Improved Invisibility for that)."

This is not the spell's description in BG2, but yes, this is the way the spell actually works in the vanilla game, but, as mentioned before, IA has changed the spell to block all abjuration spells.

so i don't see how he can say it is the kit's fault when he changed the spell in the first place. see what i am getting at.

I didn't use the term "fault" in my post at all. I just explained why the kit is incompatible with IA and shouldn't be played with it (When installed with IA, the kit violates the game's new set of rules).

If someone doesn't agree with my changes to the game's rules and doesn't play IA, my explanations are not for him at all. But if someone does play IA, he should naturally want to play the game with a consistent set of rules.


IA players represent quite a small minority of the BG community.

This is not true. The download statistics (http://dragonshoard.blackwyrmlair.net/table.php?all)and the big amount of weekly feedback we receive in IA's forum (http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?showforum=99) both indicate quite the opposite and show that IA is one of the most popular mods.

Those who don't play IA are genrally more talkative than those who play it (specially in some certain discussion boards which are governed by people who don't like me and IA), but this should not mislead people to think that they are in majority. Remember that most players play the game even without visiting any forums at all and those who play IA mostly visit IA's forum for reliable information; so, you shouldn't take what you read in some other random discussion boards too seriously.

It's true that playing IA requires a relatively high tactical skills compared to other mods, but despite this fact many players play IA in order to improve their tactical skills (not to mention the fact that IA is absolutely bugfree and stable which is another motive for players to choose it over other mods).

All of these spells use the traditional wizard version. So whatever a normal wizard casts is what this kit would cast.

I replied to this in the related topic in IA's forum. For one last time I will repeat the answer:

SI: abjuration is fixed/tweaked/changed in IA to grant immunity to all abjuration spells for its duration. Immunity to your versions of the spells won't be in the list of spells SI:abjuration grants immunity to. The fact that your new spells are renamed versions of the existent spells is quite irrelevant, because IA hs not changed those spells; it has changed SI.

If you want to resolve this incompatibility issue, you will need to check whether IA is installed or not and if yes, you should copy the existent version of SI:abjuration to override folder and add immunity to those spells to it. In this way, this particular compatibility issue with IA will be resolved. Some other compatibility problems will remain though.

that's the spells description listed at : http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm
so i'll stick by it.
no you didn't say "fault" but you said it was incompatible when it clearly isn't. a minor inconsistency doesn't mean the rest of the considerable work done by both of you shouldn't be use together.

that's the spells description listed at : http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm
so i'll stick by it.

It's not the spell's description that you read on that page. It just tells you what the spell actually does in the vanilla game. The spell's description is this:

Spell Immunity (Abjuration)
Level: 5
Range: 0
Duration: 1 round / level
Casting Time: 5
Area of Effect: Special
Saving Throw: None

Casting this spell grants the wizard protection from one spell school of her choice. After the spell is cast, the wizard must choose the school she wishes to be protected from. All spells of this school will not be able to harm or aid the caster for the duration of this spell. This includes all spells from this school, including any priest spells that might benefit the caster.

no you didn't say "fault" but you said it was incompatible when it clearly isn't. a minor inconsistency doesn't mean the rest of the considerable work done by both of you shouldn't be use together.

Well, if a player insists on ignoring my recommendations and decides to play a game with inconsistent rules, I can't stop him. But such a player will be on his own and will not receive any technical support from me.

As a player once said in the related topic in IA's forum, playing IA with an incompatible kit is not playing the 'real' IA. You can win the difficult battles easily because of the inconsistency in the rules; (ex: enemies can't breach you when you are protected by SI:abjuration, but you can breach them) if that kind of winning will satisfy you, go on and play it. But if you ask me, I say don't do that.

PS: And you have not even heard of the other problems yet. I just mentioned one example.

well start listing them as they come up & let the players decide if they are what they would consider major problems. personally i have never asked for any help from a mod maker so i don't see what difference it makes if you withhold tech support or not.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect Sikret to list every single thing from every single mod that is inconsistent with the way IA works; that would undoubtedly involve a lot of work. It's his mod, and if you want to play it, either do as he suggests, or play at your own risk. But this is getting way off-topic; this thread is about the Geomantic Sorcerer, not IA.

P.S. @ Caedwyr - any comment on my question regarding Chaotic Commands on the previous page?

no no , i just meant any problems with geomantic sorcerer

There seems to have been some misunderstanding. The Geomantic Sorcerer kit allows players to select all the spells that a sorcerer could normally pick. So if for example, Spellstrike is normally SPWI914.spl, then when the appropriate level is reached, the Geomantic Sorcerer can choose SPWI914.spl. The only spells that are cloned are the Druid and Cleric spells listed in the readme, which inherit any changes made to them prior to the cloning. Everything else isn't touched and uses whatever spell (SPWI###.spl) a normal mage or sorcerer would use.

With regards to Chaotic Commands: There's other ways of providing the same protection, and the goal isn't to replace both a druid and sorcerer in one. Count it as one of the imperfections of the kit and plan accordingly.

personally i have never asked for any help from a mod maker so i don't see what difference it makes if you withhold tech support or not.


Just because you have not, does not mean that nobody else does. When some people encounter problems, they ask for help for the relevant modders. Being denied assistance would obviously be more of an issue to them (and so being warned can be a good thing).


no you didn't say "fault" but you said it was incompatible when it clearly isn't.


Depends on your definition of 'compatible'. Sikret uses quite a strict definition- mod A is incompatible with IA if playing them together means IA will not work exactly as intended. You obviously mean incompatible if it will break the game or cause considerable problems. Bear the difference in mind, or you'll never see where Sikret is arguing from.


I don't think it's reasonable to expect Sikret to list every single thing from every single mod that is inconsistent with the way IA works; that would undoubtedly involve a lot of work. It's his mod, and if you want to play it, either do as he suggests, or play at your own risk.


I fully agree.

Thanks for the reply, Caedwyr. I was just confused by the HLA's description ("priest spells previously not given to druids"), when that doesn't apply to CC. Description aside, though, I don't have a conceptual problem with having CC as an HLA.

Edit: good point about the different interpretations of the word "incompatible", Decados.

Well this may be pouring oil into the fire but does this class get along well with SCS2? :p

I haven't had any obvious issues when playing the kit and running SCSII. I think part of the problem with IA is that Sikret uses a slightly different method for his script spell detection method (polygonal scripting?) than other tactical mods (detectable spells) which is much more dependent on everything being precisely defined. Since I'm not a scripting guy, I don't really get the advantages/disadvantages of the two systems so don't ask me if one system is better than the other.

I haven't had any obvious issues when playing the kit and running SCSII. I think part of the problem with IA is that Sikret uses a slightly different method for his script spell detection method (polygonal scripting?) than other tactical mods (detectable spells) which is much more dependent on everything being precisely defined. Since I'm not a scripting guy, I don't really get the advantages/disadvantages of the two systems so don't ask me if one system is better than the other.

Hopefully Sikret will answer the question that you (and DavidW) asked in the IA thread regarding this, but never got an answer.

And hopefully he answers it in that thread (rather than here) to avoid further derailing. :)

Link to Sikret's anticipated response (http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?showtopic=3589)

Well this may be pouring oil into the fire but does this class get along well with SCS2?


You'll find that SCSII is not nearly so hotly debated on various boards as IA. On the whole, SCSII plays nice with other mods; it is a very compatible mod.