Hi everyone,

I am a fairly new player and have been reading through many of the myriad of help documents on basically everything.

There is one thing though which very few people tend to mention and that is how stats are distributed during character generation. Most people say to raise the primary stat but there are other stats that could still be valid to think about (for example, does the Ranger benefit from high Wisdom since he has access to the priest prayers?).

I am making a party of 6 characters for a Multiplayer game and I am intrested in if anyone else (except the protagonist) needs high Charisma for any reason.

The way I have been playing is that I always try to initiate conversation with the protagonist but sometimes the thief is detected (mainly when it comes to the quest conversations). Who's Charisma is it then that the conversation is built on (or for that matter who's Intelligence)?

I might have more follow up questions but if anyone can help me with the above it would be great.

Thanks,

Archie

It's been a long time since I played this game so correct me if I'm wrong. I seemed to remember that the character occupying the lead position of a party layout is the default to speak to NPC or spoken to by NPC. So whenever I have a weak PC (i.e. Mage) with high INT and stands at the back of the party. I would have to select this character and have him/her strike up the conversation. Sometimes, the character nearest the NPC would trigger the conversation. I remember I used to be cautious whenever I had Minsc at the frontline. Didn't want him to bungle up some quests with his limited replies. So that would suggest that I believe that if your thief gets to strike up the conversation, it would be his INT or CHA that would be used. This would also suggest that a PC need not have high charisma as you can actually use the character with the right stat for conversations.

As for charisma for other multi-player characters, my limited knowledge would say that only bards and sorcerers would benefit much from it.

(for example, does the Ranger benefit from high Wisdom since he has access to the priest prayers?).Rangers have no use for high wisdom, because like paladins, they don't get any bonus spells.

nior's right about the leader being the default speaker and if for some reason (thief spotted etc.) some other character is having the conversation, it's his charisma that counts.

Remember that you don't need to create the first guy to be very charismatic, let the child of Bhaal be whatever he wants and later select a group leader.

Trellheim has the right of it- whoever is the party leader is used for speaking purposes. The only character that's going to be benefiting from a high wisdom is the cleric or druid (I guess mages do too for Wish, but not other than that).

Edit: Spelling

Hmmm.. I am not at all knowledgeable with the AD&D rules and know that there are some things I am not used to but now for some of the follow up questions:

A party of three. Mage is protagonist. I assume Warrior is party leader if they are in that order? They have the following Charisma stats:

Warrior, CHA 18
Thief, CHA 12
Mage, CHA 18

Example 1:
I enter an inn with the party. Warrior walks up to a NPC and begins a conversation. Is NPC reaction based on Warrior CHA?

From your answers I assume yes.

Example 2:
I enter an inn with the party. Theif walks up to a NPC and begins a conversation. Is NPC reaction based on Theif CHA?

From your answers I assume yes.

Example 3:
I am running around in a dungeon. Thief is scouting with sneak and I get close to a group which (even though I am still sneaking successfully) initiate dialogue (i.e. I did not actively talk to anyone). The dialogue says "Mage, you have no reason to be here". (note my reference to the protagonist)

Who is the CHA based on? Are there ever any differances in dialoge in this case? I know INT has some modification to what choices you can choose from but is that only when I initiate dialogue or when the game does it?

I also assume that if the Warrior had low INT (say 6) and he initiated dialogue then the possible responses I can use would be different/less than if he had had INT 18. Is this correct (naturally only where the dialogue was so coded)?

Thanks,

Archie

WIS also opens up some dialogue options. But is not used as often as CHA and INT.

There is always Ring of Human Influence if your Bhaalspawn is rather anti-social. I prefer to keep my PC as the leader, for I know the leader tends to get more XP over the long term. (a little bit more, but each counts. ;) )

Seperated the different paths this post is taking so it is easier to ask the right questions.

Concerning WIS for the Ranger. Isn't the high WIS value also useful for the success/failure of the spell?

How about for calculation of successfully affecting an opponent (say for a charm type spell)? Are save throws never used vs. the spell caster but only against various resistances to types of effects?

Thanks,

Archie

Yup, you got examples 1&2 correct. In example three, I'm guessing you're not sneaking succesfully and the character who's having the dialogue (thief in this case) is the one who's stats matter.

Concerning WIS for the Ranger. Isn't the high WIS value also useful for the success/failure of the spell?IIRC, Ranger's minimum WIS is 14 and there's a chance to miscast a spell if it's under 13, so it doesn't affect that either. Raising the more vital stats such as strength, dexterity and constitution is more important for warriors.

How about for calculation of successfully affecting an opponent (say for a charm type spell)?You don't need to know exactly how to calculate these things, there are spells like lower resistance that make it more probable for spells to affect opponents. But normally only dragons and other higher beings (liches, demons...) are not affected.

How about for calculation of successfully affecting an opponent (say for a charm type spell)? Are save throws never used vs. the spell caster but only against various resistances to types of effects?
When saving against a spell, you roll aiming for your saving throw value (the values against different affects are shown on your character sheet). The caster's stats are not taken into consideration. Obviously, spells like Greater Malison will affect your save.

You need to roll the amount of yoru saving throw number on a d20 or more to resist a spell.

Some spells also have modifiers. For example, Charm Person is a weak spell which allows a saving throw with +3 bonus. Say, you are a first lvl fighter with an unmodified save vs spells of 17, you need to roll a 14 or better to resist the spell. On the other hand, Feeblemind is so potent that it allows a save vs spells at -2 penalty. A lvl 1 fighter needs a 19 or 20 to resist this spell.

According to pure AD&D rules, exceptional WIS and DEX do help in saving throws. WIS offers protection against the effects which affect the mind. (such as charm, hold, confusion, feeblemind) Those with high will power are less suspectible to mind games. DEX protects from blasts and things you can avoid by moving quickly, such as a fireball and the like, giving bonuses to saving throw rolls.

However these rules are not implemented in to the game AFAIK, so there is no difference if you have 2 WIS or 25, in the saving throw category.

Some spells weaken the enemy's saving throws. Doom gives -2 penalty to all rolls, while Greater Malison will give another -4. Cast a Chaos spell which originaly has another -4 penalty to saving throw, and the unfourtunate victim must make a saving throw vs the spell at a hefty -10 penalty:this is not an easy feat to do for even the highest lvl creatures.

About CHA, IIRC, it also affects the morale break of NPCs in your party somewhat, determines when they will give up fighting and strt to run away in fear. A highly charismatic, influencing leader can force his underlings to certain death.

Ok, so basically, as soon as the spell is cast, the caster is no longer important and it is only the target/targets that matter, and what they have in their saving throws?

When I say "no longer important" what I mean is that I know that for example Fireball does a certain damage x lvl for more damage but that the caster is no longer a part of the formula for checking if the opponent takes damage, or "saves" against it.

On the CHA thing, even if a charismatic leader might kill his party because they don't flee, do their individual CHA enter into that calculation. Assume a leader with CHA 20 and a party member with CHA 5. Will he run/not run based on his stats or on that of the leader?

Thanks,

Archie

PS. Right now I have the following chars/stats:
Human Paladin 18,18,18,9,18,18 (yes, rolled a total of 99)
Elf Archer 18, 19, 17, 10, 18, 10
Half-Elf Bard 10, 18, 10, 18, 18, 18

Prolly the Bard will become protagonist due to high in all the last three. But, have I made the wrong stat choices on any of the above chars? What would you guys have done differently and why?

Human Paladin 18,18,18,9,18,18

I would (in my own opinion) remove a couple points from strength and add them to intelligence. There are more than enough Strength enhancing items out there, and 11 Intelligence would allow you to survive 2 Intelligence draining attacks by the illithids.

Elf Archer 18, 19, 17, 10, 18, 10

I don't really see any major problems here but, as it was stated above 18 wisdom is probably overkill on a ranger as they dont get any bonus spells.

Half-Elf Bard 10, 18, 10, 18, 18, 18

My only suggestion would be unless you are going to rely heavily on wish, I would (again in my own opinion) take 6 points from wisdom and add it to constitution for more survivability. Again there are more than enough strength enhancing items to go around.

Again these changes are only my opinions based on my own playing style.

For the paladin lower wis, it's useless.

For the bard get 16 con, 20 extra HP help a lot. Wis isn't very useful, even for the party leader.

I'd take kits for the paladin and bard. They are superior to the pure class, no matter which kit you take.

Your paladin does not need that high WIS. Put points into INT instead. Mind Flayers drain 5 INT with a hit, and once you reach zero you die , regardless of your HP status, so INT is very important for survival in a part of the game. Those with 5 or lower INT has no chance to survive the Mind Flayer city.

Same goes for the archer. He really does not need 18 WIS, there is absolutely no bonus at all, except a little lore which will do no good! Raise INT instead.

I like the bard. He will have awesome lore ability thanks to his top INT&WIS. He can identify anything just by looking at it in the middle of the game. If he will stay in the back, CON is OK. But if you plan to use him on front lines with Blade Kit, raise CON ASAP or he won't survive long.

Also, pick Inquisitor kit for your Paladin, they rule the game and are very powerful against major threats in the game:high lvl spell casters!

There are cool kits for ranger and bard too! Pick any you like! Kits are good to have.

Your paladin does not need that high WIS. Put points into INT instead. Mind Flayers drain 5 INT with a hit, and once you reach zero you die , regardless of your HP status, so INT is very important for survival in a part of the game. Those with 5 or lower INT has no chance to survive the Mind Flayer city. Not to go OT, but this is a great point.

I don't know if there's any great value to a high INT, but it's probably not a good idea to have too low an INT, since it will make your character vulnerable to getting killed too quickly by Mindflayers.

Also, it's worth knowing that the true "healing" potions when fighting Mind Flayers are potions of Genius or Mind Focusing, since they add INT (+4 INT for potion of genius, +3 INT (as well as +3 DEX) for potion of Mind Focusing).

It's a good idea to have an INT of, say, 11 or 12, if only to have just enough INT to survive 2 INT draining hits, thus giving you enough time to run away and suck down some potions of Genius or Mind Focusing.

(OTOH, it's probably the best tactic when dealing with Mindflayers to use plenty of mindless summons, like Mordenkainen's Sword and Animate Dead.)


Also, pick Inquisitor kit for your Paladin, they rule the game and are very powerful against major threats in the game:high lvl spell casters! ABSOLUTELY!!! This is why Keldorn is such a kick-butt NPC. While all 3 pally kits are very good and a player can get plenty of value out of all three, I think that it's the Inquisitor kit that really shines. And it should also be considered that the Inquisitor's abilities are quite useful against the primary enemies of the Cavalier and the Undead Hunter, since many of those kits' enemies (demons, dragons, some vampires, lichs, etc.) also tend to be nasty spellcasters.

^Nice to know that we think alike, crucis. :)

Undead Hunter is also a good kit for SoA, as there are too many lvl draining foes and having innate immunity is a real boon. In ToB it is less important though.