I originally put this as a reply to a previous topic I started, but moved it here since I think it has application beyond just that topic.

I've been searching for and finally found a way to kill NPCs without loss of reputation and without turning surrounding NPCs hostile. Simply cast Blindness + Ray of Enfeeblement + 3 Contagions on them. Apparently you don't lose reputation for killing an innocent through stat drain, and the Blindness for some reason keeps other NPCs in the area from going hostile over your actions (go figure).

The primary application for this technique would be to finish the Sarles quest with both full XP and keeping the illithium for the MoD. Just finish the quest as normal by giving him the real illithium, then use the above technique to kill him and take it back.

I know the Ray of Enfeeblement + Contagion strategy isn't new - I read about it myself in one strategy guide, but I haven't heard of it applied to killing NPCs in this way, nor have I heard of any other way to both finish the Sarles quest with full XP and keep the illithium, so I hope I've contributed something new here. Does anyone know of any other NPCs this technique might usefully be applied to?

[ December 04, 2003, 21:07: Message edited by: Beren ]

If you are going to kill innocent NPC's, that means you're being evil, which means that lower reputation shouldn't harm you. If you're playing good, then just don't kill those innocent NPC's.
I've never tried this one, but if Sarles drops the illithium when he dies, it might be possible to pickpocket him.
I also noticed that when killin Cowled enforcers with a fireball, the innocent NPC's caught in the fire don't cause you to lose reputation. It _might_ have been because of my reputation of 1.

No, you can't pickpocket him. And as for being evil, my main character is in fact a paladin. That doesn't stop me from doing things like robbing storekeepers blind though. If the game will let me get away with it, I will (up to a point - stealing from and reselling to fences for unlimited money is a bit too cheesy for my tastes).

Yes, but a paladin's order states that he cannot go against the law, which would include killing innocent people. Even if your reputation isn't lowered, your paladin would lose his status and become fallen, for all he knows.
And anyway, the gods would stop giving him power, even if no mortal saw the he killed innocent people. The gods can see what mortals cannot.

Killing innocents through stat drain to avoid reputation loss is an exploit of the game engine and hence "cheese". However, completing the illithium quest and then killing Sarles to get it back is definitely a valid strategy for the more evil player.

Or you can take the fake Illithium to Sarles (who will leave) then to the temple who will accept it even though he has done nothing to it. You can then take the real stuff to Cromwell.

Or you can take the fake Illithium to Sarles Of course, but giving him the real illithium gives you more XP. If you can then prise it from his cold, dead hands this may be the better option for the evildoers amongst us. Myself, I've always given him the fake stuff because the Improved Mace Of Disruption is one of the best weapons in the game. I never realized that you could get the real stuff back. Not that I'd kill Sarles, anyway, because I always play a goody-two-shoes. Maybe next time...

Ignoring all the not-role-playing-style arguments, I'd say this is pretty cool. Nice work awesj, I will try it out next time I play (whenever that may be).

Thank you! I was more concerned about someone actually appreciating the technique than starting a debate about roleplaying and cheese. I save my roleplaying for PnP anyway.