I'm in the copper coronet doing the free hendek quest and yoshimo asks anomen about adventuring. He says he killed a wyvern with a spear! I'm going to bed.

Why is that impossible?

it isn't, is just another damn spammer trying to get their posts up.

Probably because Anomen isn't proficient with spears. Although that doesn't mean he couldn't have grabbed one lying nearby and chucked it into the heart of the beast if he was desperate.

Anyway, in the future I'd like people (like Spudsquisher) to at least wait for the person who posted originally to elaborate before calling them a "damn spammer". We don't need such hostility for no reason. Leave it to the mods to take care of the problems, if we deem that that's what they are.

[ December 28, 2003, 23:39: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

Anomen can't use spears now, since he is a cleric--but remember that he dualled from a fighter. He could very well have been proficient in spears before taking up the cloth. (-:

look before you leap, spud.

A dual classed fighter/cleric cannot use a spear because it is not a blunt weapon! AD&D rules! I was very tired last night and should have elaborated more.

Did he kill the beast before of after he dualclassed?

You didn't even try to read my post, sorvo.

Let me repeat myself. Anomen is a fighter dualled to cleric. Before he dualled to cleric, he very well MIGHT have been proficient in spears. He's not allowed to use them anymore, but that doesn't mean he wasn't in his past.

You might be right Tjek.I have to get the dialouge again because I think he was a cleric at that point.

Don't believe a word anomen says, even if it isn't entirely impossible. He's a bit of a sneak, that man. Unfortunately, he's just about the best NPC cleric in the realms. Trust me on this one.

ABOUT THE BEST NPC CLERIC IN THE REALMS???
WHO DARES...

I think you know whom I have in mind now, but isn't any cleric better than Anomen - with his WIS-score of 12?!


SPOILER >
.
.
.
His score may be upgraded to 16 when he passes his "test" - but that is again worse than Viconia's score!

> END SPOILER

Yeah, but you'll be glad to have Anomen when some big bastard with a THACO of about -23 twats your only cleric one; Im thinking Anomen has the better chance of surviving as he has LOADS of hp and only gets a few less spells than Vicky. He can use better weapons/armour than Vicky without the aid of strength enhancing stuff and thus is better in good-aligned, fighter based parties featuring the likes of Keldorn, Minsc and Mazzy. DOn't get me wrong; Vicky's great too, but Im just saying that you definately shouldnt write (sir) Anomen off.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited September 11, 2001).]

Anomen is a spoiled brat and his hateful dialogue to MY party members have caused me such consternation that depending on the protagonist, I've dismissed him, silently cheered him on, cut him down in the street. One thing about Anomen, he brings out our emotions, eh?

I like playing a cleric as a protagonist so my basis of comparison of cleric abilities is somewhat shaded by that.

By the way, even if Anomen did have proficiency with spears when he was a fighter, those proficiencies wouldn't be erased when he changed class. Anomen is a liar. If the lily livered, pansy ever did see a wyvern, he probably ran like a girly man... and the wyvern impaled itself on a tree limb chasing the bastard's backside.

[This message has been edited by Subra (edited September 12, 2001).]

By the way, even if Anomen did have proficiency with spears when he was a fighter, those proficiencies wouldn't be erased when he changed class. Anomen is a liar

Stop beeing so narrowminded. It is possible to wield a spear as a fighter even though one is not proficient in it. -1 to Thach0 is all.

Anyway I agree with Will. Anomen is a better character than Viccy. He is a stronger AND more Solid AND More attacks per round Tank than viccy (I remember Lokken calling Viccy a tank). He miss out on 2x1st 2x2nd 1x3rd 1x4th That is nothing critical at all.

Ok ok Viccy is beautifull :p

Ho, my friend, let's not get into hasty conclusions. Anomen wouldn't last a minute against a Shadow Lich now, would he? Yes, Vicky's magic resist + the other bonuses makes the magic attacks go to waste... Viconia's also got better defense... and she improves with power-ups. Also, her romance is better than Anomen's. Now, I'm not telling Anomen's not that good than Viconia. (Since I'd mostly prefer him because Viconia shines pretty much later... I am ashamed of my impatience...) :)

And on the topic on spear wielding... probably a lucky strike. Once had a battle against Balor. Guess what? Anomen got only two strikes out of the lots my fighters threw at the demon... and he got to kill it with a lucky 10 damage. Could've happened to the wyvern. Also, WHAT human couldn't use a spear?(No one) Example. Imagine yourself the normal cleric, the healer who believes not in wielding weapons that kill, all alone because a rampaging Treant slaughtered your comrades. Looking at it, you see that it's gone so weak, you could kill it with a blow. The nearest weapon, is a magically enhanced spear that could hit the Treant and a non-magical mace. You know that if it survives, it would destroy anything and everyone. What to do? Choose the lesser of the two evils, I suppose... (BTW, Imagine you're sided with a god that wants subjects to serve him...)
It's better if everyone had the ability to bring any weapons... But there'd be a rule. For example, penalty of 4 to THACO for wielding weapons against your class and another +2 for weapons against your faith..or ethos. That would've been nice... but it's just my opinion. :)




[This message has been edited by zantetsuken (edited September 12, 2001).]

and she improves with power-ups
This stuff always comes up in NPC Vs. NPC

Cant Anomen be Improved with Magical items too? But I agree on the Magic res. And as always the NPC Vs. NPC fades out into a maze.

This would fall under the, "Things I wish I'd said at the time" file (Hmmm, maybe a new topic . . . ?), but when Anomen told me that, I wanted to say, "Your mother must be so proud . . . to find you hanging out in a slave-brothel in the slums." Or, maybe, "That's nice. Mazzy, here, just killed a dragon with a soda and some 'Pop-Rocks' -- and, she'll nibble your knee-caps, if you rub her right." Or, finally, "Greeeat, Anomen! Does your husband always let you kill the easy stuff?"

Anomen can get so cheeky . . . like "a red-cheeked maiden, my friend!"

Well... I guess I slipped on that one, Nobleman :). But to rephrase that, she improves better - probably because she starts from worst to great. Anomen starts pretty much from acceptable. Then he improves to great too. That's why I'd check on him most of the time- I need the best for my party especially in the earlier chapters. Then, if I've had my share of fighters with pitiful abilities against magic, I let Vic in. Anyways, I always have my clerics running around to help the wounded, so Anomen barely has a chance to do the fighting. By then, I'd need a cleric w/ good armor class and magic resist so he/she could survive the battle to raise the dead or go around the battle healing while being bombarded with spells. Vic's spellproof enough to be left alive... In my games, Anomen barely makes it... But that's being unfair. Well, it's my opinion anyways.

Vic or Anomen? Hmmmm... I'd choose Anomen if I were playing female and Vic if I'm playing a male NPC. That pretty much solves the dispute.

oh bloody hell this is such a shockin thread!!! this is a CLERIC who apparently killed a DRAGON with a SPEAR!! god, ppl have the right to tell stories, ya know...

What? He doesn't get struck by lightning the moment he holds something sharp and pointy, you know. And Remember. Flails have SPIKES... that accounts for like small little pointy spears poking out - and their god doesn't descend from the heavens and slay them on the spot when they wield one.

Sure, Anomen always gets more beaten around than Viconia in my games too. That's because I keep Viconia further back casting spells, so with her high AC, people rarely bother her. Anomen, being a much better fighter, always has front line duty when I have him in my team, so he naturally gets pounded on more.

Personally, I tend to mentally categorize people into front-line combat fighters and behind-the-line missile/casters. At that point Vicky and Anomen aren't even competing for the same spot. Anomen is competing with Jaheira, Keldorn, Valygar, and Minsc; Viconia is competing with Aerie, Cernd, and the mages. It's unfair to expect Viconia to be as good a fighter as the warrior-types; no matter how much you hype her up, she won't be. But she's as good at spell support as anyone, and she's a better backup fighter than any of the other casters.*

[edit]

*Oh, except for Haerdalis. I always forget him in these discussions because he defies my neat categorization. (-: But he kicks an amazing amount of butt for a non-warrior; I just need to keep a couple of the beefier warriors in front of him because he's made of tissue paper and the second his stoneskins fail it's "At last... oblivion!" (-:

[This message has been edited by tjekanefir (edited September 13, 2001).]

I think Anomen is not only a bad liar, but also a pretty idiotic bastard, that's for sure! I don't like the man! Especially when he attacks Aerie (when she's trying to calm him after his failure). Man, I have ate his heart after this!!!! I love Aerie!

Revenge=Aerie in flame.

It is not Anomen's fault - but yours.

----------------------------------------

I can't understand why this thread turned into Viccy vs Anomen?
Both of them are kickass. Why don't you try them both in the same party like I did?

I see your points Tjekanefir and zantetsuken. With magic resistance and all. And I see why we dissagree, or choose diferently.

I have no second line. I drive the old charge and destroy tactic. (F/M/T, Mazzy, Keldorn, Minsc, Valygar, Anomen). So my battles are up close and personal. Viccy isnt really that fond of this strategy. I loose a 6 spells but not any major casualty. And Evil doesnt fit in that party.


PS: Jon Irenicus loves Airie, I guess Ellisime will be sad to hear that :p

Ellisime is a moron.

In a real fighter-based party where you're expecting everyone to tank, I'd recommend taking both Jaheira and Anomen. Both good fighters, and together they should handle your cleric needs. Viconia and Aerie really aren't up to that kind of role, for the most part.

anomen turns undead like you wouldn't believe

viccy just doesn't have quite the same effect

but viccy is the better cleric, and anomen is the better all rounder

Bah!
Anomen can't get them on your side pal!

Besides, no way he can turn stronger (high level) undead like Viccy. If you got her experienced, of course.

And one thing more - in my SoA I spotted that Viccy's turn has visual effect on Keldorn!?

Really? I know that they're supposed to have added the AD&Dv.3 thing about evil clerics being able to turn paladins in ToB, but I know you don't have that installed nor any patches either, so I'm surprised... I never saw this effect myself, but then I don't usually turn undead for some reason (probably because I usually have the cleric wielding the mace of disruption, come to think).

It would be pretty funny if when Keldorn tried to kill Vicky, she turned him! *laugh*

come off it anomen couldnt kill a wyveren at that level on his own. in bg1 my whole party of high level fighters and mages got utterly destroyed at least 5 times in the cloakwood by wyveren

A wywern has a thac0 of 13
an AC of 3.
2 attacks per round doing 2d8 points of dmg.
and 7d8+7 HP

An Anomen (unique creature :p) has at Level 7
Thac0 13 (strength) perhaps lower if magic weapon
AC of around 0 Vs. piercing (shield, armor)
1 attack with spear, doing minimum 1d6+3 (strenght)
and 7d10+14 HP

If his spear was magic and he had potions against the special attacks of the wywern, I dont see why there isn't a possibility. But he might be bending the truth. But the deed is not impossible.

Did he say anything about killing the wyvern alone or that the spear was non-magical?
The lvl 7 Anomen in question may have been assisted by his comrades or, for instance, a staff-spear.
I think it's more unlikely that he, as he claims, slew twenty giants by himself in the same battle.

Ahhhh.....the things we debate about....

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

And the circles we get into...

Anomen's quite a character. But 20 giants by himself, that has to be a tall tale.

I can see it now, Anomen with a big warhammer and a shield, with a barrel marked Super Healing Potion strapped to his back and connected to his mouth via a plastic tube. :lol:

Taluntain, is that what "Helm's Beer Hat of Merriment and Healing" is for? ;)

I think that is a baby wyvern!:grin:

Anomen is a good fighter, and a bit of bragging is not a crime - I mean, listen to some real life people who play Quake or go fishing - after that killing a wyvern with a spear doesn't look like a big deal... the guy is just talking!

bragging and lying are two different things!

But he's *not* lying. You're being silly, sorvo. There's no reason Anomen couldn't have killed that wyvern. It's more likely he was embellishing the part about killing all the giants, as someone already pointed out.

Still spinning I see.

:spin: :spin: :spin:

There's only one way to solve this debate...where's Elhan and his mages when you need them... :grin:

Sorvo... give frickin' anomen a spear, or whatever will do... summon a frickin' wyvern and let 'im go at it. If he dies, he obviously lied, if he kills it then he's not so full of the brown stuff. Should do the trick no?

No... You couldn't get him to hold a spear, no?

As I have said before: He could use a staff-spear, or he hadn't become a priest yet. It's not that hard to kill a wyvern at lvl 7, right? At least I didn't have many problems with it in my BG1 games.

But yes, the only way to know for sure is to ask Elhan's mages.

TRUTH! :D

the other battle against 20 giants is a little stiff to explain.

Lets just say he fought Normal Hill giants.

AC: 3-5
HP: 12d8 +2
Thac0: 9
1 attack per round doing 2-12 +7 Avr: 14
or throwing 1-6 +7 ave: 10,5

with a Thac0 of 9 they would probably hit Anomen half the time. only two giant can hit close combat, so the damage done to Anomen each round is 1x14 and 9x10,5. This is around a 100 HP per round. IT takes no wizard to figure out that this is not healthy in the long run.

But Anomen is the man, so lets say he choked down some potion of dexterity. And speed and had borrowed a fancy armor and shield. so his AC against blunt weapons was -10. Now life is a little more honny and sugar. only an average of 1 giant would hit him per round. Add a caravan of Healing potions and some patience he could pull this off. Couldn't he? :lol:

I don't know if all the giants throwing things would be able to hit him. With a giant either side of him, they would block most enemy shots and give their allies a severe modification to THAC0. I would either make them do called shots at (say) -6, or rule that giants were too stupid to do otherwise, and give them a high chance of hitting their own side, putting the odds somewhat more in Anomen's favour. Though I still don't think he could kill them all.

Add a Potion of Absorption and a Potion of Invulnerability to Nobleman's list, and let's say that he borrowed Crom Faeyr! This makes his story so much more believable.

But have you played IWD? The frost giants there ain't very hard. Give any fighter any missile weapon (even a sling), let him/her drink an Oil of Speed, and the giants won't last very long.

Well, then give anomen a club. If he beats a wyvern by pummeling it to death with one of these, you can be sure he could do it, if he wanted to, with a spear.

Anomen a liar?
It is a game, people!
:lol:

I believe the giant killings because he says he was fighting a scorching summer campaign! That's 20 giants in three or four months.I give up on the spear thing because he shouldnt even be a cleric! I give fault to the designers(just a tiny fault). They should have anomen as a fighter and then if he passes his test, raise his wisdom to 17 and let you decide if you want to dual class him into a cleric!

So your point is Zaragoth?? :p We are weird :lol:

I completely agree Maldir. Even the situation strikes me as hilarious. 20 Giants trembling around a fighter. heh heh. Their major flaw is the Thac0 if this can be called a flaw, when you have around 9. A low AC is essential. But Sorvo brought some facts to this. pheeww.


ANYWAY. Jack-of-all-trades have you finished the C++
The Positioning and Magicusing BattleCracker DM toolkit I hoped you would build here: http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001019.html

I could really use it now. :D

[This message has been edited by Nobleman (edited September 19, 2001).]

Anomen also is an idiot. Under AI, he casts chaotic commands on enemies. Or is this some kind of incredibly subtle attack I'm not seeing?

Success! A wyvern has fallen by anomen's hand. Literally. Equipped with nothing other than his bare fists and some bad breath from all that mead we had him drink, I had Anomen k.o. a great wyvern. He could certainly have done it in his fighting days. I'm convinced now. End of discussion.

The discussion was whether or not he could use a spear, not if he could kill it.

If he could do it with his damn fists, he could definitely do it with a weapon he wasn't proficient in. Anomen ain't no monk. (-:

Any fighter can use a spear, even if they're not proficient with them.

Besides, what's to stop a cleric from picking up a spear and use it if his life depends on it, if there's nothing else around?

He wasn't even a cleric then. This was when he was a soldier.

Religion is a hard thing to explain Namarus. This is CRPG not PnP.

Well, if you are so fond of listening to what Anomen says.... speaking of those giants: he said he killed 20 of them during the campaign, not in one hour.

Anomen's words to some priest after having killed that wyvern:

"Forgive me father for I have sinned. I was alone and had lost my weapons, when a wyvern attacked me. I picked up a spear from a fallen comrade and used it in self defense to slay the foul beast..."

The priest's response:

"A grave sin indeed. You know our rules, Anomen, no spears, halberds, swords or other sharp objects may be used, even in self defense... You shall have to eat only bread and drink only water for the remainder of the month... then you shall have forgiveness. Go now..."

Religion is indeed hard to explain...:lol:

Maybe thats why he doesn't have the correct wisdom score, he lost points every time he screwed up!:D

[This message has been edited by sorvo (edited September 20, 2001).]

Oh, guys, I nearly laughed my head off ! Embarrassing, if you're at work and everybody starts staring at you ....
(and besides, I tended to believe his stories, because a) I was in love with him and b)he became my Dragon killer later in the game).

Through a fast-mouse-clicking error on my part, I actually had Annoymen attacking the Shadow Dragon with his bare hands. :o
(This was well before I read this post!)

He was blessed, had drunk a potion of (I forget) giant strength, and was Holy Mighted. He actually did a whopping 5 points of damage with his bare hands - right before Thannaxaglaxnfrax bit his fool head off. :aaw:

-- Nivek the :mad:

Well, with my first party I had AnNoYmen with me as well. We were in the Planar Sphere and Anomen wore the Cloak of the sewers. Now we met some very bad-lookin' Iron golems. So, I ordered him to change shape...into a form of a RAT. Then he charged at the golem. You wouldn't believe: he ALMOST killed the golem by that way:D:D He max. damage the golem could do on him was 2or3 hp(while protected against the Poison Cloud of course)and the mighty Ratty-AnNoYmen did many-many 1 damage on the golem - sometimes, when a critical hit occures even 2 hp damage(!) so the big bad golem was at Near death when I needed to offer some help:)

Now I'll never have him in my party because of his IDIOTIC nature, so I start to pester him in the Copper Coronet and then Polimorph him without regret:evil:

A fitting fate, I guess.

Anomen could have used the spear because he was a squire at the time. It took me three weeks to get that dialog again! So he's not a liar he's an arrogant prick!

I told you that 20 posts ago. You've got to start trusting me, man. (-: