I've almost finished the Underdark part of the game, and so far I've had to resurrect Valygar at least three times. It may have been more, and I also think I've had to resurrect him at least once on the surface. He's got good AC, decent stats, good weapons (in addition to his personal Katana, I've given him a second +1 Katana and a proficiency slot or two in two weapon style), so why does he keep getting killed ? None of my other characters die as often as Valygar. What makes Valygar susceptible to getting killed, where others dodge death at every turn ?

[ May 04, 2005, 18:47: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

Well, the Underdark does tend to be full of quick deaths, straight combat issues aside - the illithid will kill fighters quickly with the INT-draining attacks that can be hard to notice until someone suddenly dies on near full health. Are there particular enemies he's doing badly against?

Some numbers would help, too - but if you've got another frontline tank with a much lower AC who's doing okay, consider sacrificing some of his stuff to save Valygar; rings or amulets and so on.

Failing that, maybe give him some charged protection items to swap in when he gets in trouble, like Sandman's rings or shield amulets, or don't use dual-wielding for the Single Weapon AC bonus (I think Valygar has that proficiency?). Valygar isn't the toughest front-line fighter, as is probably best used as a flanker once Minsc/Korgan/whoever has most of the enemy's attention.

xa leave valygar and take korgan :)

Valygars AC is never going to be good enough. He is restricted to Studded Leather and is probably dual-weilding. Also there are quite a few times when you are surrounded and you have to let the boys hold fort at one end while you try to finish off the threat to the spell casters at the other (demon knights and phaere's rescue come to mind) or just cant send everone in (mycnoids). It is very easy for a frontliner to die in the Underdark.
Anomen with -11AC too died a couple of times in the Underdark for me. Like RQ? said, Valygar is not your main tank, rather the calavry and (Oh! the irony) mage protecter.

1.He has crappy INT, so mind flayers kill him easily
2.he's not the best fighter
3.sell +1 katana, and give him Celestial Fury
4.he don't have good AC.
5.He's Stalker,so do more sneakery and back-stabbery
6.don't be annoyed, and I am feeling little sorry, but:This game requires lots of clever tricks and cheesy plans(Unlike diablo, which you go click!click! monster dies) and you don't plan well enough??

No! I had played with Valygar through Underdark and he was pretty alive. The problem is not with Valygar, or with any other NPC that people call 'weak', 'useless' or even 'rubbish'. The problem is the players as they don't know the weaknesses or the stregths of NPCs.

-First, Valygar's family katana is NICE, but for some reason (design or bug) Valygar CAN NOT BACKSTAB with it.
-Celestial Fury is EXCELLENT for Valygar, and a MUST if you want him as a silent, versatile killer. He can BACKSTAB with it too!
-Dualwield a dagger with it, some great daggers are:Pixie's Prick+3, (uncounsciousness, perfect with Fury) Stiletto of Denmarchess+?, Firetooth+3 (ranged).
-If you have Tactics Mode, Kuroisan's acidic katana is just AWESOME, THE BEST WEAPON IN THE GAME, so you know to whom you will give.
-His family armor is nice enough, but give him Shadow Dragon armor! It suits him best!
-Some THAC0 OR STR enhancing gauntlets are VITAL. (ogre str, weapon skill etc)
-A good Ioun Stone is needed too! (sorry I can't remember names)
-Boots of Speed! Yeah!
-Str enhancing girdles! A MUST for every fighter type.
-Cloak of Nondetection will make sure mages can't dispel his invisibility and he can BACKSTAB them with Celestial Fury! = it will HURT! :)
-Or, try the cloak of sewers, it has nice abilities.
-Use his spells! Armor of faith is stackable and powerful protection! Why don't you use it?
-Minor spell deflection will give him some edge against spellslingers. Miscast magic can totally disable a victim. Dispel magic is vital nearly always (although his is not as Powerful as Keldorn's) it is still a bonus!
-USE HIS BACKSTAB ABILITY! Stock invisibility potions, great fun in combat! (especially to spellcasters)

These are the general advices I can give. Valygar is not a weak character if you use him right. I used Valygar in Underdark, and he was pretty fearsome, not so fragile.

Hope it helps.
Thanks for reading.

No! I had played with Valygar through Underdark and he was pretty alive. The problem is not with Valygar, or with any other NPC that people call 'weak', 'useless' or even 'rubbish'. The problem is the players as they don't know the weaknesses or the stregths of NPCs. I agree. It's more than just hack 'n' slash ;)

-First, Valygar's family katana is NICE, but for some reason (design or bug) Valygar CAN NOT BACKSTAB with it.
It's a bug. The game only allows weapons a thief can use to be used for backstabbing. Valygar's katana can only be used by Valygar - hence it can't backstab. This is obviously a bug. I think there's a fix (fixing Staff of the Magi too) but I'm not sure...

-Dualwield a dagger with it, some great daggers are:Pixie's Prick+3, (uncounsciousness, perfect with Fury) Stiletto of Denmarchess+?, Firetooth+3 (ranged). You can't dual wield with Fire Tooth because it's a ranged weapon - even if you set it to 'melee'.

-His family armor is nice enough, but give him Shadow Dragon armor! It suits him best! I usually let him keep his own amour. It has AC 2 (compared to AC 1) and better resistances than the Shadow Dragon Amour: 25% res. to fire, acid and magic damage and immunity to charm (compared to 50 res. to acid). The item upgrade mod even allows Valygar's amour to be upgraded.

-A good Ioun Stone is needed too! (sorry I can't remember names)
Probably Dusty Rose Ioun Stone (+1 AC) or Pale Green Ioun Stone (+1 THAC0 and +10% hit points) - but why not use a helm?

-Boots of Speed! Yeah! A must for any backstabber. But remember the fix.

As Silverstar points out, Valygar is not a tank - he's a stealthy character. Don't use him in the front lines - backstab, rinse, backstab etc. and clean up afterwards with regular melee.

IMO he's a very useful character - and versatile:
He can be used as an archer/backstabber (which obviously rules out dual weilding but ** in One Handed Weapon Style will make his backstabbing abilities very effective).
Or with *** in Tho Weapon Fighting Style and the right weapons he'll become a great backstabber/melee character (not tank however).

[ April 29, 2005, 20:05: Message edited by: Victor Eremita ]

Uhh, sorry about Firetooth, yeah you are right Victor Eremita, one can not dualwield it. (It stays with Imoen always, it realy suits her style, fiery, deadly, and still cute!)

Still, I think Valygar is a very effective character like all other PCs, if you DO use them right.

At the time I was in Underdark, this was the party I had:

Landar (Me): Level 15 Fighter – AC: -10
Minsc: Level 14 Ranger – AC: -6
Valygar: Level 14 Stalker – AC: -3
Jaheira: Level 14 Fighter/Druid – AC: -5
Imoen: Level 12 Magician/Level 7 Thief – AC: -2
Aerie: Level 12 Cleric/Mage – AC: -1

Valygar had the Helm Of Glory, his family armor, Bracers Of Defense AC 8, his family’s Katana, and a +1 Katana in his off hand. He had two slots in the Katana proficiency, and three in two-weapon style.

[ May 01, 2005, 03:05: Message edited by: Aerie's Number One Fan ]

Bracers of AC 8?????? that's total rubbish!
give him AC 2 or 3, not 8(even 6 often doesn't work for mages)
and to everyone: how do you improve your AC?
I never seem to get low enough

:lol: A+2 & +1, is the guy even hitting anything. Whats with the +1Katana? You should have found Malakar in Spellhold, where the monsters come out of the pictures. Put that in the off-hand.
Are the Bracers doing anything? With armor, I think not. Thrash them for something else.

Since you seem to be using your PC as tank, its obvious that your auxillary would have bad AC. Specially considering he is dual weilding. Just make sure he stays back to gaurd Aerie and Imoen. When the monsters have fixed on the others, then send in Valygar. When you have him scouting, its best to give him the cloak of the sewers and ring of earth control/ ring of ram.

You can give the best stuff to one guy, and the rest have to use whatever is left over. You will never have low enough AC not to be hit since fighter THAC0 gets insane at higher levels. In SoA
Gorgon Plate, Senital Sheild, 18Dex, Helm of Glory, Ring of Ram, Cloak of the Sewers are pretty much the best items for lowering AC.

Why don't you get Celestial Fury? It makes no sense to me. Valygar and Celestial Fury are made up for each other. I remember he was VERY versatile when using it plus a dagger that makes victims uncouncsiness.

Chickcavalier is right, drop that Bracers of AC8, it has NO effect to AC right now as Valygar has his armor (which is better) remember they are NOT cumulative.

Give him a gauntlet of str OR weapon skill.

As for getting lower Armor, consider casting spells like Spirit Armor and Barksin once you are of a high casting level. They've saved my weaker characters' butts so many times, I can't even count.

Also, it is very important to buff properly before going into any encounter. AC is not the be-all and end-all of combat. Use your clerics and mages wisely...healing and chucking fireballs is not all they are there for!

Stuff that gets over looked but goes a long way towards keeping your characters alive is important...eg: Protection from Evil 10' radius, Chaotic Commands on your tanks, Free Action, Holy Power, Magic Resistance, Chant, Bless, Mass Invisibility (+4 AC for entire party, plus -3 penalty to enemies to hit you!), Spirit Armor, Stoneskin, Mirror Image etc are cool.

As for your particular problem, I can tell that this is one of your first few run throughs this game...don't blame you. It took me a while to get to grips with stuff as well. All I would say is that you could be doing a LOT better with your characters...head straight to the best shop near you and give them some better items. That will get you a HUGE boost in increasing Valygar's lifespan! ;) Between that and the buffs, I'd be very surprised if your problems continue. :)

and also Defensive Harmony is useful too.

I think the baldurdash fixpack fixes the backstabbing problem. I have Valygar in a party right now, and he can backstab with his family katana. It's a nice +2 weapon, with additional poison damage, very good against spellcasters.
I don't think you will find better than his family armor, which is very good. With some items, you can bring his AC to -4, lower if you use a shield.
But Valygar isn't meant to be a tank. In this respect, I don't think it's a good idea to use the great Impaler spear, despite his proficiencies. He's best used as backstabber and ranged fighter.

Give him a good shield, a good katana and a good boomerang dagger, and he will kill more than die.

Another piece of advice - that builds off what others are saying - is placement of Valygar. With your six member party, I would recommend a formation where you have three rows of two characters. Have your PC and Minsc in the front row, and Valygar in the second row. That way there, your PC and Minsc will engage the enemy first, drawing most of their attacks. It will take Valygar a little while longer to get in the action, and it is rare for enemies to start attacking a different character once they start attacking the first one.

Actually, you put him futher back with the ranged spellcasters; unless you expect the AI to do everything for you. This way Valygar will get into the fray even later. In battles where the rest of the fighting force drops in on you a couple of seconds after the first sighting, this reduces the chances of any stragglers deciding to test Valgar's skills.
Personally, this is how I place my Kensais.

When you are scouting and backstabbing with Valygar, make sure that he has the best AC items. Either that or a way to become invisible. Once you take the mage out, the others will not be casting divination spells and he can get out and again position himself away from the line of fire.
Be sure to have your PC close by and ready to rush in to ensure that he gets all the attention, saving Valygar and the rest of the team.

Most likely: Because you're using him wrong.

He's a stalker and as a stalker he's not a frontliner but better used as a sort of stronger thief when backstabbing or as a capable archer.

When you take him into melee, however, or fail to provide the essential protections, he is doomed, or at least severely handicapped due to his AC, or lack thereof. Black dragon scale helps.

If you just can't handle Valygar properly, that is - if he's incompatible with your playing style - get yourself Minsc instead, or better, Korgan.

i think best way of using him is kicking him out :)
that said, i agree with most of the posts--he is not a tank. use him in a sneaky way, at least i best utilized him that way.

To eliminate your enemy
Hit them in their sleep

Iirc the Shadow Dragon scale is AC1 (+50% acid resistance) while his own armor is AC2, just 1 point difference. And for that you would trade:
Immunity to Charm
+25% Resistance to fire, acid, and magic damage.

Now if you had Weimer's Armor upgrade mod, with which you combine the two ...

@Misantrophe
can you backstab while someone is Asleep?

i dont think so. what i wrote was a part of lyrics of a Megadeth song-Architecture of Aggression sorry i didnt mean any inconvinience :)

In the game, if someone is lying down asleep they can be backstabbed. Take the normal precautions (you have to be hidden/stealty regardless of their wakefulness) and position your guy behind the targets head (as, well, there are generally sleeping on their backs).

I suppose it's an accident. Unlike 3E, 2E doesn't allow so much diversity in saving throws within one class. AC you said was good. HP isn't low for him, either. When dual-wielding katanas, this guy is deadly.

And I forgot to add...Haste as many of your tanks as much as you can...i.e, use Improved Haste if possible, if not, Haste. Even if they are wearing Boots of Speed, they do NOT get the bonuses to number of attacks.

Improving your offense and defense together is the key to buffing. :)

BTW, can someone tell me if valygar gets a speed bonus to all weapons with leveling? CF has a speed factor of 1, which can sometimes be a small problem - backstabbing mages relies on getting the damage done before the stoneskin gets cast.

Speed Factor 1 is one of the fastest speed...... you can be successful backstabbing with even longsword

Unless I've got some REALLY good armour on Valygar, I give him a bow for the main battles and have him try to stay out of harm's way. I also give him a spear (the one from the druid forest is nice) so that he can defend himself with a good 2-handed weapon if someone gets too close.

I'm not too fond of the Stalker class; if I want a backstabber or a scout, I'll take a thief or multi-class thief. If I want a front line fighter, I'll take one of the other Warrior classes. Some of Valygar's spells are nice, though . . .

I like to take him for the role-playing perspective -- I like his attitude, his quest, his style . . . . he's funny, in a gallows humor sort of way.