I just completed 2 quests without a thief and am really really sick of traps.
There weren't this many traps in BG1 were there ? Couldn't have been.
Anyway I need a thief and I think there are only 4 NPC matching the decription :
Nalia - I've built her up as a nice mage but thief she is not.
Yoshimo - Not a bad thief and not a bad fighter but can I do better.
Jan - Looks to be the best thief but is he any good for anything else ?
Iomen - not too good a thief ?
So who should I take ? I think Jan.
Anyone any more info to help me.

Arguably Yoshi - But.
Next is Jan. There are a lot of 'thieves aids' to find or buy to make up for shortcommings. If you really want a great thief - play one.

Thanks.
I want to finish with the character I have started with but dropped my thief to pick up that stupid ranger to do the planar sphere.
What a mistaka to maka.
I might try Jan for a while to see if he is any good but your probably right Yoshi is the best thief.

Jan is an excellent trap finder/remover and lock picker, especially if you concentrate your points in those areas rather than stealth. He's not bad at 'acquiring' items from others too. (You might be able to tell that I'm a Jan-Fan - "Your knees are mine!")

I would like to take up Yoshi, but I read on the board that he eventually abandons the party. Does anyone know about that - do you pick him back up later?

I smell a spoiler on this topic.

Thanks for your help everyone.
I've checked the stats on Jan and he is an excellent pickpocket. Better than Yoshi.
Whereas Yoshi and Jan have the same trap finding and lockpick skills.
I will try Jan unless he is a complete wimp.

Nalia is your best bet, or Jan.

The reason for that is both can cast magic, which you can never get enough of and are more useful over all than just a pure thief class. Potions of Thievery will only help better these two when you need it the most.

Syl...

How can you include Nalia as a "best bet"? She's a good mage, but a TERRIBLE thief, since she dualed at 4th level! Yes, with some magic items she can be a halfway-decent thief, but still not a GOOD thief.

Imoen is slightly better, since she dualed at 6th or 7th level to a mage, but for your money, Jan is the only good thief who will stick with you through thick and thin. Focus his thieving skills on picking locks, detecting traps, and spotting illusions, then have his spells make up for his lack of stealth.

In combat, Jan is not all that, but give him a crossbow and some magical bolts, and he'll do fine. If monsters begin to close on him, have him cast Invisibility and SPLIT.

All you need in this game is a thief to disarm a trap here and there.

Nalia is perfect for that and has much more power as a mage than Jan does, so you won't see me wasting time on him, that's for sure.

Nalia doesn't need to pick pocket to get quests completed.

Any thief, regardless of trap detection will find it eventually if you take your time and step carefully.

Nalia doesn't need to unlock anything with her skills for she has the Knock spell to do so. She doesn't need to hide in shadows, she has invisibility to do so.

That's why either Nalia or Jan are your best bet and it doesn't really come down to thief abilities, it comes down to over all performance of those thieves listed.

No way would I want a pure thief in BG2 because they're simply useless.

Syl...

Valygar is no stupid ranger. give him celestial fury to dual weild with his family blade and he rocks your ass.

I had problems with Nalia's thief skills, (or lack of them). Sure, she can find the traps, but she couldn't disarm them, no matter how many times I tried, in Firkraag's dungeon. Even a potion of master thievery couldn't help. Why did they duel her at fourth level, anyway? Seems like a waste!

I have Jan in my party and invested 100% in Detect Illusion skill but he still couldn't detect illusions like mirror image. Has anyone else tried using this skill? Do I have to activate it or something?

One more thing, is this skill better than, say, the spells True Seeing and Oracle? I would like to free up my spell slots, if Detect Illusion can perform the same functions.

I agree with Crazy J.
I have Nalia as my second mage.
She isn't a bad mage and not a bad little fighter with 2 swords but as a thief she is complete rubbish.
She could not find one single trap when I did the planar shere and she got hit by most of them whilst looking and she can't lockpick to save her life.

I found Imoen quite useful actually....wonder why there's all the bad press about her. But Jan and Yoshi are definitely the best thieves around.

Nalia doesn't need to use any lock picks. She has Knock so why even complain about that?

Nalia, no problem with me. Not once have I had trouble with her being unable to locate or disarm a trap. Opening things, yes, but who cares when you she has Knock handy.

Imoen's useless until you get her back and most people have already completed the side quests before going on their way to get her.

Grub, my Half-Orc Barbarian is going to slit her throat once he saves her and make her pay for her stupidity and bugged character.

Hello?! You didn't have magic missile memorized when you left Irenicus' Dungeon and she casted it in plain view. I had all the scrolls, so she didn't use a scroll. Grub dislikes magic you see but puts up with it, but Grub is terrified of magic being casted when there was no way it could have been done. All this running around, trying to build up gold is seriously pissing Grub off and he won't have anymore of it!

Syl...

[This message has been edited by Sylvus Moonbow (edited November 15, 2000).]

er...Sylvus..maybe you should take a break...

Syl chill out dude.
I don't like to use the Knock spell when you have a thief who should be able to lockpick.
Nalia is just too low level a thief to use as a thief but she makes an excellent 2nd mage and fighter.
Syl you've been working too hard, take a break man.

There's a good point made. You don't need a thief in this game when you have spells such as Knock, one of my own points that thieves are useless in BG2, as they were in BG1 and as they have been in many CRPGs in the past. No company has actually designed a thief like it should be designed. Sneaking around taverns and learning information only a thief could get by talking to them. Getting deals from black market merchants.

All they need now is a spell to disarm traps and volia, thieves no more.

It's great you and everyone else who uses thieves for picking locks, but my whole point was you don't need a thief to do so. All you need is one to disarm traps, thus the only thing that makes them any worth in BG2.

Syl...

Although detect traps and knock work fine, I find it's a waste to memorize them when I can have Jan come in and disarm any trap he can see. It takes up too much memorization when I could be memorizing offensive spells instead. Especialy when you get to an area with 5 or 6 locked chests. The only time Jan actualy used his detect Illusions was against that rogue Rakshasa, when he asked me why there was a woman with a tiger's head selling potions. If only they could implement this sort of thing more it would make for a thief that was much more usefull. I agree partialy with Sylvus but I wouldn't go anywhere without that litle crazy bastard Jan.

Sooo - as a thief Nalia's a good mage; except that you've got to use all her 2nd level slots up with knock spells to make up for the fact that she's such a crappy thief?
I guess I just don't care for Drew Barymore.

Drew Barrymore is an excellent example of someone who has gone against all odds, stopped using cocaine, stopped drinking and set herself on the right track.

As for 2nd level spells, 3 knock spells are fine, leaving the rest open and after finding the items that raise 2nd level spell slots up a tad, 3 spell slots is nothing considering there isn't much else worth bothering for 2nd level. Invisibility, Web and Agannazar's Scorcher.

By the time you reach 17th or higher, these spells are even worthless considering how many maunty hall magical items there are around every corner, nitch and cranny found in BG2.

Syl...

Jan, Jan, the turnip man
if he can't do it, no one can
<ahem-sorry bout that ;)>

I held off commenting on this topic, I tried to keep quiet but... I have to add just some minor thoughts.

If one doesn't find value in the Thief class, or the entire storyline around Thieves in BG2 then it's a matter of 'game style' and 'personal views'. The 'Knock' spell is a 'work around' for ONE of the Thief skills - until you run out of 'Knock' spells. However if one doesn't use or value the entire Thief skill set (or skill set of any class for that matter) then they will never be of use to a party. Also one will never like the class much or appreciate the depth of the class. I'm sure these statements aren't really new to anybody but nevertheless they remain true.

BTW, Yoshimo is the best Thief in the game and Jan is runner up. I won't comment on Nalia's thieving skills or Imoen's. :)

I'll cast my vote for Jan. Yoshi would get it, but, of course, ...
I see the argument that thieves are a second rate party member in this game. I will NOT ever have a pure thief in my party. That said, lets talk thieving skills instead of spells like detect traps and knock. Take out their wizardry ability, and Jan is a better thief. He pretty much has full points in all his abilities in my game except for setting traps. Now granted, he unfortunately is not the better character to bring along. Why? Because if you want him for his magic ability, he will never be great asd this game has it in for multi class characters from the beginning. Nalia and Imoen are better mages(if you get Imoen's stats high enough). Jan will never bee anything great as a mage. He is a better thief, regardless of how they are treated in BG2, but I think I'll try Imoen and see if I can get her mage stats up high enough to beat out Jan's. I think with the right rings, she hopefully will be good at finding/disarming traps and opening locks.

Side note: does anyone know Imoen's thieving stats?

Ahh, home sweet home. Wait... I don't live here.

Thieving Abilities -
Open Locks : 95%
Find Traps : 85%
Pick Pockets : 25%
Move Silently : 30%
Hide in Shadows : 25%

from http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/Walkthrough/npcs.htm

Wo, wait a minute! I could hardly believe my eyes when I read some of the last posts. Thieves dispensible? Are you guys serious??? Who else is going to sneak ahead, steal relevant items (e.g. genie lamp), set traps and back- stab? This class rocks. I'd still have a thief even without the traps and doors in the game. If you don't think they're worth it, you playing your thieves wrong ladies and gentlemen (IMHO).