I was pondering rules changes for BG2 in regards to some posts on the board for the expansion-that-shall-not-be-named. Most of the rules tweaks I would like have already been included in one mod or another, but I'm curious nonetheless. What would you tweak or change?

I don't know if this is the kind of suggestion you had in mind :

I'd like to be able to equip a ranged weapon in the main hand when dual-wielding (with an exception for bows, maybe slings too). That's a 'problem' I'm having now with Korgan : Crom Faeyr off-hand and Frostreaver/Stonefire/Hammer vs. Giantkin in the main hand. If I want to use Rifthome I have to switch to the inventory screen and unequip Crom Faeyr, and change it back after I used it. IMO, this should be possible with ranged axes/hammers/darts/daggers.

I would like to see the ability to disarm traps without using a thief (with spells, items, smashing it, whatever)

There's the open locks and detect traps spells, but the one I really need is disarm traps when you come across those really nasty ones that don't disarm when you set them off.

I would like to remove the limit on setting traps and summoning monsters. Maybe there is a way around this, but I don't know about it.

Paladin/wizard in 2E, I'd so much like.

Oh yes, the limit off from monstersummoning.

Another is the very base rule of D&D. I hate it that the only advantage you have from Double Wielding is one extra attack per round. In general, weaponskill shoud add to AC. And Double Wielding should require far more points to master than other skills (basically almost limiting you to that only), and take from hit power while adding to number of attacks and and AC more than other weaponskills. I am actually going as far as that Double Wielders should have a 50% bonus to attacks per round. With a ~25% minus to hit damage. And add around 50% more to defense than other weapons as well. Perhaps this should be limited to Kensai class, don't know. Still as it is, the Double Wielding is far from what it should be.

What I would really like to see changed is the limit of 5 spells per level to the Sorcerer. This is terrible and it really annoys me a lot!
:mad:

Rules changes I'd like to see:
Any character can initiate an area transition, as in PT. No more of that "You must gather your party" crap. Hold shift key down to run, as in PT. Multiple weapon configurations like in IWD2 (e.g. switch from dual wield to bow without having to faff around in your inventory unequpping your offhand weapon). Dual classed characters can use skills from primary class at all times. Somehow "forgetting" how to use weapons and suchlike is simply absurd.

Any character can initiate an area transition, as in PT. No more of that "You must gather your party" crap.
Multiple weapon configurations like in IWD2 (e.g. switch from dual wield to bow without having to faff around in your inventory unequpping your offhand weapon).
Dual classed characters can use skills from primary class at all times.Somehow "forgetting" how to use weapons and suchlike is simply absurd. 100% agreeded!!!

The lack of being able to multi/dual any class. Many a time I wished to solo the game as a Fighter/Thief/Sorcerer.

Stupid weapon configurations. Neverwinter Nights' weapon select and quick-keys are the best I have EVER seen for any game (so simple yet so efficient).

More off-hand attacks with two weapon style, not just the one extra attack. Makes the style useless compared to single weapon, shield or two-handed.

Ability to dual wield thrown weapons (i.e. Korgan with rifthome axe and dwarven thrower) throwing both at once.

Spontaneous casting.

Greater differences between ability scores that aren't at the extremes (often at least 15 is needed to gain some form of benefit).

A Planescape: Torment PC abilities allocation/progression (+1 ability score every level up, set number of ability points at character creation).

The thing I want more than anything else is to eliminate paused inventory screen. BG1 was a lot harder than BG2 because of this feature alone. In BG1 if you were ambushed by hobgoblin elites and poisoned with no cure poison potion in your quick slot, you were dead. In BG2 enter a room with fireball throwing efreet, pause the game and have the guy with all the fire resistance potions hand them out to everyone and drink, then unpause the game is kinda lame.
Another thing I would like to see is duplicates, from spells like simulacrum, have no quick slots. This would get rid of saving and still using some nasty one time use items. Eliminating this cheese feature would be cool.


I think the reason you can't dual weild and missile weapons at the same time because the offhand weapon would also attack at ranged, like melf's and off hand does. Anything that makes dual weilding better is not good.

Limitless multi and dual-class combinations. There's no real reason, IMO, why you shouldn't be able to play a Ranger/Thief, or a Fighter/Sorcerer, or a Barbarian/Cleric, or a Ranger/Mage.

But I guess that's what 3rd Edition is for. ;)

Wow, I didn't expect so many responses so quickly!

Just a quck note: SimDing0's tweak pack removes the summoned creatures cap. I can't get the link right now because FWP is currently down.

@ Chris - I just use Ctrl-J to get around the inability to run (but only if I've previously covered the areas I want to cross)

@ Stonedtroll - you can tell the game when to autopause and not. And if you don't want to be able to manually pause, just exercise some self-restraint.

Things I'd most like to see:
Unlimited multi- and dual-class options, with fewer racial restrictions.
Can assign kits to multi-class.
Can assign kit to second class of a dual-class.
Humans can multi, non-humans can dual.
Ability to equip single-handed ranged weapons in main hand while dual-wielding; this would include slings.
Again while dualwielding, a hot key that you could assign to a 2-handed weapon that would equip that weapon and automatically un-equip your off-hand.

1. If the game could run at normal speed (30fps or whatever the user chose) during area exploration and then automatically switch to a user designated speed when enemies are nearby (eg. 10fps or less) then the game could be played in pseudo realtime, rather than slapping the spacebar and bringing the game to a complete stop/go/stop/go/stop when a mage appears (they can cast faster than you can type, unless you drop the gamespeed. If you have six characters to control you need six times as much time to do it, ie. the game running at 5fps).

2. When multiple dialogue answers are given, different answers should not produce the same result (eg. telling an ogre where he can shove his mace should not result with the exact same confrontation or dialogue outcome as begging him for your life).

If the situation and dialogue is linear, then providing five dialogue choices where two would do is an unnecessary interruption in the flow of the game.

3. Macros should be included in the game that act like spell sequencers execpt that the casting time is normal and all actions, spells or otherwise, can be included . Buffing characters is a pain to do repeatedly.

4. Spell sequencers and triggers should not have to be re-setup every time they are used. Sleep should restore them intact the same as other spells.

5. Some sort of feedback that a PC or NPC has recieved user instructions an is acting on them (although the avatar is stationary) should be given (like turning its circle purple).
Re-issuing commands to my NPCs 'just-in-case' has me clicking on them like a lab-rat at a food dispenser.

6. You should be able to pick goblins, ogres and gibberlings etc. as your PC at the start of the game.

7. All character number restrictions should be removed for a special giant multiplayer area where you can send an army of brave and resolute Goblins against and army of stinking Elves.

8. Pigs should be implemented. I expect to see the magical flying kind in the next incarnation of the Infinity Engine.

I haven't played any of the mods yet, so some of the above may have already been implemented, if you know so, say so.

Bards should be able to put two points in weapons!
Or at least in ONE weapon, for balance sake.

Concerning weapon specialisation they are no better off than mages/clerics/thiefs - thats annoying. After all, they are a bit on the fighterish (funny word) side.

NPCs should be able to cast 'find familiar'.

FWP is back up; you can find SimDing0's tweak pack (which includes the elimination of the monster summoning cap as a component) in the House of Sim forum (http://forums.forgottenwars.net/index.php?board=52).

[ December 01, 2003, 19:17: Message edited by: CamDawg ]

I really like that running idea. You have no idea how many people I know got bored and quit the game because walking back and forth (plus change screen loading time) took so long.

And I also support the 2E paladin/mage dual class. I say if the alignment matches, then be whatever you want.

Familiars should be given to the first player regardless of class. And they should be able to disarm traps to some ability. This helps to address the lack of trap removing spell that was raised before.

I agree with most things. Such as being able to equip a twohanded weapon in your quickslot while dualwielding. Really annoying to go in and out of your inven. Dualwielding two throwing axes or the like would also be very cool. And I repeat very.
Multi/dual class limitations removed. Yes please, and add kits to that while you´re at it.

Although, there´s alot of stuff here that people want removed out of lazyness, (if that´s a word). Like the walking speed. Sure, walking can be tiresome, but if you could run it would be abused to death. And is it really likely that say a fighter in a Full Platemail would run very well while carrying a bunch of weapons and who knows, maybe a composite longbow and a couple of 100 arrows. I dont think so.
Loadingtimes... Do a full install, harddrives are cheap.
Traveling the map alone? If that is what you meant. I dont know for sure, but I´m pretty positive there were no cellphones or anything back then. "Hey, I´m going to Trademeet for a week or two, stand outside this shop here in the Promenade til I get back."?
Okaay then.

Ditto for what Abom said, except:

NO spontaneous casting. It totally ruins the flavor of magic in D&D. Spells should be memorized, cast, and then forgotten until it is studied/prepared/memorized again. That's why sorcerers are the most ridiculous class to be created ever.

Basically apart from that, the implementation of 3rd ed rules would be awesome ala IWD2.

Will the new icewind gate mod solve the problems of the multiclass options(paladin/wizard)? If so, then i can't wait for it to come out!!!

Topic: If you could change one rule... Wow, there sure are a lot of people around here who can't count to "one." ;)

Well we could just say "Make it 3rd Edition"... does that count as 1 rule?

The one rule that I would change:

Rangers should be ANY alignment! The idea that they have to be "good" is truely an afront to gods like Malar!

Allow multi/dual classing for all class types.

Particularily things like Sorcerer, since it's supposed inborn I see no reason why you can't have a fighter/sorcerer

Splitting your party without having to remove them from party (And hearing those "Don't you want me" cries). The whole party on same district is okay, but if I just want to go to copper coronet and have a good time without my paladin would be nice. :p

If I could change one little thing it would be more elven chain mail in the game. My fighter/mage/thief needs it early. And why is it always green? My chaotic evil offspring of the very essence of murder doesn't look very menacing in his shiny, glistening GREEN chain mail!!

posted by Bluin:-
1. If the game could run at normal speed (30fps or whatever the user chose) during area exploration and then automatically switch to a user designated speed when enemies are nearby (eg. 10fps or less) then the game could be played in pseudo realtime, rather than slapping the spacebar and bringing the game to a complete stop/go/stop/go/stop when a mage appears (they can cast faster than you can type, unless you drop the gamespeed. If you have six characters to control you need six times as much time to do it, ie. the game running at 5fps).I find this idea rather intruiging...it sounds a good idea, however at what point in the battle does the game resume 30fps...if it never does resume 30fps and stays at 5fps all the animations and spells would be in slow-motion.

EDIT: Wait...I have an idea. Rather than 5fps the game could still run at 30fps, but the time scale is altered, instead of a round taking 6 seconds it could actually take 60 seconds (user configurable). This would not produce slow-motion effects, and would give much more time for actions.


2. When multiple dialogue answers are given, different answers should not produce the same result (eg. telling an ogre where he can shove his mace should not result with the exact same confrontation or dialogue outcome as begging him for your life).Planescape Torment was really good at this...choosing a different option actually made a difference.


3. Macros should be included in the game that act like spell sequencers execpt that the casting time is normal and all actions, spells or otherwise, can be included . Buffing characters is a pain to do repeatedly.You can script this sort of thing to a hot-key you know...

If I could change one rule in the AD&D ruleset, I would have to go for some sort of change to Hit Points...I've never been happy with HP, I know some people term HP as luck, and by losing HP you are losing luck until your luck finally runs out.

Look at a fantasy movie...they have battles whereby the protagonists are rarely 'hit', they mainly block and dodge, maybe get buffeted about a bit and ride their luck...but they rarely get massive injuries.

Hit points are actually a combination of luck, physical hardiness, magic, and divine protection. A fighter with 100 hit points is actually just as vulnerable to a single death blow as is a fighter with 10 hit points, but the one with 100 has a lot more tricks up his lseeve that you will have to exhaust before he will be vulnerable to that blow. The one with 10 will get winded a lot quicker, etc.

But I still agree somewhat. Instead of hit points increasing every level, it would make more sense if your armor class and your damage ranges increased. A highly skilled martial artist isn't really all that much more physically resistant to a sword blow than the average person -- but he certainly is much harder to hit in the first place, and he can also do a lot more damage with that sword than the average person, too.

Maybe Gary Gygax just figured that after putting all that work into getting your character up to a high level, you don't want him taken out as easily as he would have been at first level....