He gets eaten by dopplegangers doesn't he?

In BG? Nah, he lives.

Sylvus

Elminster is the most famous person in the Realms (curses to Ed Greenwood for his lame character names). He will never ever die. He saves the realm on the average of 4 times a day. Some pesky little dopplegangers will not be able to stop him.
What you saw was a doppleganger disguised as the Great E (I refuse to type that name anymore).

El is a good name, much better than the overly used Raistlin which I no doubt spelt wrong in the first place.

Raistlin and Drizzt' can rot in the pits of hell for all I care.

Sylvus

Ofcourse not, Elminster is one of the signature characters of the ralms, and as such won't be offed unless WotC/TSR decide it would make a great book. Mind you, on average Ed Greenwood recieves 5 or 6 letters a day from people saying their character killed Elminster. What sad lives these people must lead if their only goal in the realms is to off Elminster...

Wow.....that's.....sick.

Why do you guys dislike Ed Greenwood, Elminster, Drizzt or Raistlin so much?

I don't, i like those chsrscters. They sort of give the setting some colour.

Well, my only grouse so far is that every campaign you go you always hear the same names: Khelben, Drizzt, Elminster and so on. And they're basically window dressing.

Like what does Elminster do in Baldur's Gate?

Geez.

I also heard the AD & D stories are sucky, but I don't know because I never read them.

I dislike Drizz't due to his popularity with people, always wanting to play Dark Elves and be a Ranger who has come forth from the Underdark as a saviour and hero and... just...makes...me...sick. It's been over used too much.

Raistlin is the exact same. Raistlin this, Raistlin that, people using the name as a handle, a nick, alias...just...makes...me...sick. Originality people.

Elminster on the other hand is too cool. He doesn't stick out like a sore thumb the way the other two mentioned above do or at least with "fans" wanting to be like him or use his name.

I think I've come to hate the people who use Driztt and Raistlin more because of the way they post on message boards.

"yO! R dark elfs in da game cuz i wanna get da bonus elf stuff and magic items and kick some ass yo!" as an example for someone using the name Drizzt.

The idea was great when the books came out, but it seems like he's appearing in these games (BG, BG2) just for the sake of popularity with people who follow and love him so much. To me, bury him 6 feet under already and come up with a new hero.

Syl...

Ah, I understand what you mean Syl, and I agree too! I have the same problem with people that call themselves "BSB-Nick Carter" or "Britney Spears".

Do you guys read any of those AD & D books? Are they any good at all? I'm not really into fantasy and if it weren't for Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment I wouldn't even know about AD & D either.

I flicked through a book called "Waterdeep" however, and it seemed to suck. Cheesy names and characterization, etc. Not exactly Tolkienesque. :D

I might be biased though. If you guys say it's worth a read I'll go and read it.

I've read a few of them, mostly The Harper series. Good reads are Tolkien, David Eddings and Robert Jordan if you like long epic tales of fantasy. By far the three best IMO.

Syl...

Tolkien is great, although I found all that talk about honour and heraldry and elves quite boring. :p

Then I read Don Quixote, and MY, what an interesting contrast, hehe!

Tolkien is great, I agree, but have any of you read books by Anne McCaffrey??
They're quite good and give an alternate perspective to science fiction.

Next time please start a new topic Rakanishu. This isn't very related to Death O' Elminster. hehe

Talking about books... check out http://www.sorcerers.net/Books/

All of my favorites are there, and 90% of the books very good (as you can see in the reviews).
Actually the worst of the bunch are the novels written after the games, the BG ones especially. Athans must be one of the worst writers in history.
Though the Torment novel isn't that bad. But again only compared to the BG ones. The writing in the game was 100% better. I wonder why don't they let the people who made the dialogue in Torment write the books as well.

Drizzt is too much of a goody-two shoes. For someone who has as dark of a past as he, he's a canidate for the "Shirley Temple doo-gooder's club".

I hate Ed Greenwood because I made the mistake of buying two of his books and have been upset ever since. This guy just can't write!

Most of the earlier forgotten realms books are pretty good. The Moonshae trilogy (Douglas Niles), the Alias books (Grubb Novak), Salvatore's Cleric Quintet. They don't seem to be doing that many series anymore, most of the new books are about the Harpers (whom I'm getting awfully sick of).

Phillip Athans is a no-talent ass-clown. BG2 is so juvinile I ended up finishing it in a few hours. I'd like to see some books on the Zhentarim, and the Red Wizards. I'd like to see them written by Greenwood, the third best fantasy writer ever. (Tolkein is first, and Feist is second).

I made the mistake of buying BG2 novel as well. It has shown me just how bad an author can be. Thinking of usuing my copy of it as novelty toilet paper ;) Just as well i didn't find the BG novel over here, even though i looked for it everywhere.

you know, the pages are fairly durable ;)

They should turn Drizzt evil, for the sake of goodness. He feels turning evil will better the side of good in the long run. That could make things interesting.

Syl...

So is Elminster & Gorian in the dungeons actually dopplegangers? I'm wondering coz after that you never see them again!

Of course those two are dopplegangers in the catacombs... everyone else in there is, so why'd they be an exception? Besides, them changing back to dopplegangers and attacking you should be clue enough.

Figures i guess...anyway what about when you see Elminster the other times? Is he a dopple ganger then?

No, he's for real there. ;)

He later gets his arse kicked though don't he?

Elminster getting his arse kicked? Dream on. That char has been upped to god-like status by TSR you know. He's untouchable. You can even kill him in the game. ;)

what happens if you attack him then? is he immune to everything? If so is he still immune to having a longsword +1 being put through him from behind?

He just disappears.
***POOF!***

:D

[This message has been edited by Taluntain (edited November 07, 2000).]

Wow He disappears with a !!POOF!!

Hey they should make that into a great novel...

There'd be too many blank pages if it started with that.

Er ok...but he still gets killed by dopplegangers don't he? Put it this way, does he appear in any of the extentions or BG2?

Look. ELMINSTER NEVER DIES. He's the most powerful mage in existence. He's more than immortal.
And he does appear in BG2 I hear. Haven't seen him myself yet though.
But if he doesn't show up doesn't mean he's dead. He probably has something else to do than running around towns yelling: "Look, I'm still alive. Whee!!".

Isn't that what weird old men do, though?

Oh I give up. :rolleyes:

Elminster shows up in BG2 during Jaheira's Harper Quest.

About 25 days or so after Jaheira is told by Darniem that she is being hunted by Harpers, he will arrive as Terminsel. That's his anagram name for Elminster.

He will ask Jaheira if what she did was right (leaving the Harpers) and if following a child of Bhaal was the correct thing to do. She says "yes" and Elminster gives her a Harper Pin that has some real nifty powers.

Syl...

Hmm...silly Jaheira...does Elminster feature elsewhere?

Yes. He's having a solo jazz performance in the Blue Oyster bar in a few days. If you're lucky, you can still catch it.

He'll be performing some of the all-time classics such as: Oh the shiny missile o' magic, Why does my wand shoot fire, So cold - a touch from a lich and many others. Be sure to buy the CD too!

Is there a music video for any of them? That'd be cool.

Wonder what his voice is like...

Well you can hear his voice briefly if you pause the game when he appears and click on him without anything else selected. It's fun to annoy him.

Elminster IS a god, that's why he can't be killed that easily. Haven't you guys read all Forgotten Realms-books ??

I found this poll a couple of days ago so I went to check if Elminster could die. I reinstalled BG1 and used gatekeeper to raise my main character to level 50. I continued on my way to the friendly arm inn so I would meet Elminster on the way. I had the +5 defender and Imoen and a +2 short bow with +2 arrows. I attacked him immediatly but I couldn't even hit him but he did go hostile. He talked to me and started his "hello there wanderer" speech and then just walked away. I kept trying this but couldn't even touch him.

Later I searched for cheats and found one that spawns Drizzt who helps you to kill any hostile people in sight. I surrounded Elminster with them so he couldn't move and the Drizzt army pounded on him for ages. Then he started speeking the way he did when he was the doppleganger in the catacombs and started attacking the Drizzt with his Quarter staff. Drizzt couldn't get a hit on him and Eliminster couldn't touch the Drizzt. Imoen had wasted her arrows and I had pulled back my main character before because I thought Elminster was going to cast some great big killer spell and I couldn't get him back in the fight because Elminster was surrounded by Drizzt.

I got bored and shut the game down and uninstalled it. Either the programers made him undefeatable or he is immortal.

Yeah OK but don't a large number of god's end up getting their arse kicked by immortals? I mean just because he is a god that doesn't mean he can't be almost totally forced out of existence?

Elminster a chosen of mystra, even if he was killed he would be ressurected by mystra (if you've read the elminstyer books he dies like 10 times nad is ressurected) and do you really thik a few greater dopplegangers cna take on elminster? i mean he defeated an entire order of mage lords when he was still learning to be a mage, do some of you guys really think he'd be whipped by some dopplegangers when he is already a master mage?!

I'd have to agree with you guys on the people in d&d who overkill the drow thing. I like Drizzt and Raist, because they were fabulous in the books, but players (esp in tabletop) are just sad. in the words of bloody elves w/ long swords. my solution was a deep gnome ranger with a racial hatred for drow not quite legal but boy I chew those yahoos up.

ROFL! That's a good one Ice Weasel! I'd never have thought of that!

What about a drow halfing vampire paladin/assain?

So............does he die? Ever?

Nope... He's just like this topic, you see.
It can be gone for days, everybody thinking that it's finally gone for good, but then somebody comes along, writes a few words and it keeps on living. :p
To infinity and beyond!

[This message has been edited by Taluntain (edited January 07, 2001).]

Just beat him with the ugly stick, that ought to do it!

...and vanished in a puff of logic

Jeez, I guess you were right about this topic never dying. Just when you think it has gone under, BAM someone posts a reply.

It's still here!

My personal theory (having not read any books on AD&D) is that Elminster is invincible because he is the only wizard who gets to wear a pointy hat (or hat of greater pointiness +5) ;)

I've got a pointy hat...does that make me a god? and so does my teddy bear.

Oh look teddy, we're gods! Weeeee! We are gods because we have pointy hats! My pointy hat is 3 metres high so i must be a big god! Yipee *jumps in air clicking heels*

Or maybe all pointy hats in the forgotten realms are so magically pointy they would fry the brains of non-gods - does anyone know why you don't see any mages who AREN'T the big E in pointy hats? - oh, and Sniper, if you can wear a 3m high hat without breaking your neck there must be something in that.

[This message has been edited by Ironbeard (edited March 11, 2001).]

I'm still sure pointy hats are related to Elminster's power in some way because I don't see anyone else wearing one. Maybe only the chosen of Mystra are worthy of Mystra's Hats of Greater Pointiness and lesser mages have their brains fried.
(oops, sorry I thought I'd done something wrong and my last post hadn't come up but it was just delayed)

[This message has been edited by Ironbeard (edited March 11, 2001).]

You are creative and imaginative no doubt. But c'mon! maybe they need to reach a certain level or something...

Nice idea, Sniper, 10th level, Rincewind's wizzard hat, 14th level, hat of pointiness, Elminster's huge level, Mystra's hat of greater pointiness. What level did you and your teddy need to reach to wear that hat of extreme height you mentioned?

Oh ... only a level 23...not that hard is it? took me about...6 months...

Ok, I'll stop the hat thing now - it's probably annoying and as a mere acolyte I have no right to hijack a topic and annoy people. A few comments
1) I like the idea of pointy hats being like Dak'kon's sword and improving w. level
2) I thought the doppelgangers could only take the form of people they'd killed - like terminator. I trusted the big E in the cellars because of this, then found out I was wrong about the whole kill you first thing - maybe that's the source of this misunderstanding about the big E's death
3) Excuse my ignorance, but if E is a chosen of Mystra, how does that make him any more of a god than you?

It makes him almost god-like because
a) he has lived over 500 years and doesn't need to sleep, so he obviously had enough time to become the best mage in the Realms
and
b) Mystra watches his back...

But he's not tops! Gandalf is!

I thank you kind sir, for you have increased my *knowing* of the realms. Seems like being very friendly with a good living god beats being related to an evil dead one any day.